Being available and ready to help isn't attractive to the WS. They only understand rejection.

Go keep yourself busy and see how much faster he comes back.

L.

Thanks Orchid - I wish I could be so damn strong. Grrr - I wish there was a roadmap out there for me!! lol!

And THANKYOU for the link to Truehearts letter. If it hasn't made a difference to him - yet - at least I feel Ive done the right thing giving it to him (both in hard copy and by email). Maybe he will see thru the fog - one day soon?

I still can't conquer that reverse babble though! lol

The best stuff won't work if his head is up his [censored] and he is a WS. So read it and save your ammo. Your time will come.

As for the RB, practice. I did. In the bathroom, practiced talking to the mirror..... in time it started flowing naturally. Took a while. Had to wait for my mind and heart to sync up and put myself back in control. That took time. When it hit, I was ready. The WS didn't stand a chance. LOL!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

L.

Yep, gotta find that time to stand in front of the mirror to practise without the wee'ns hanging off me saying 'mummy, what ya doin?' <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Just started ADs yesterday - wish I had gone on them 3 weeks ago - at least I may have been a little bit more in sync with myself by now.

God I hate that he has made me crazy. I HATE THAT!! He has made me need medication for gods sake - GRRRR. I was such a strong person - look at me now...

Looks like Plan B may be going into effect tomorrow whether I was ready for it to or not.

jus

U need t/b ready for it or it will lose it's impact.

I practiced after my little one went to sleep. Just ran the shower a bit longer so no one heard me practicing. LOL!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

L.

Orchid, I was just over at your RB link. So many of those things WH has said to me.
'weve been growing apart'
'ive so much in common with her'(cause he's known her all of 8 weeks now and been sleeping with her for 5 of them!)
But one I received by text the other day, which I wish I had known how to RB was 'i know you still love me, but I also know you are very angry with me, why haven't u kicked me out'

HOw do I RB that?

Mind you ,all this may well be redundant after tomorrow. I know from my dad that he was definately at her house at 8pm tonight (so not out walking sorting his head out) He messaged MY DAD (who has always been HIS dad cause as I said b4 he hasn't spoken to his dad for 17 years) about some amazing cricket results from some player. Dad wrote back and said 'blah blah was on 196 when I left, what was final score' but WH never wrote back.

Dad was at work so knew nothing of the sms I received from WH at 4pm. I am staying with the kids down at mum and dads tonight (same street!) and it was only when dad got home half an hour ago that I found out he had heard from him

Doesn't the idiot realise he LOSES ALL OF THAT TOO!!

So i told dad I was so pleased he had written back because as of tomorrow, if WH has done the 'i have to decided one way or the other- and it's the other'Then none of us will contact him by sms.

Anyway- i was just wondering about how to RB those statements above. I have been talking to mum about it tonight and reading her some of your RB comments from that thread!

You are very clever! LOL

Jus

Juzzie...

please list your boundaries....

you need boundaries....

explain to me how it is acceptable in your universe to tell the father of your children who is NOT coming home tonight...

'I know you can't explain, I sent u email about taht this arvo. Im here 24/7 if u need to talk, or text or just silence, Im here. I'll tell the kids ur working late again tonight'

Juzzie...
do not EVER EVER EVER agree to a dishonest person to LIE for them...

you MUST stand for truth and honesty...
and I am NOT saying tell the children horrible things about their dad...or the truth about their dad...

BUT
do not let this fish off the hook and AGREE to lie FOR him....

babble back...

this is very very stressful on the children...
I will have to give a lot of thought as to the answer to when they ask where's daddy?

You realize dear...that you are choosing to visit upon the children great fear and pain...but as you say...
you are correct there really is no acceptable explaination for such things....

buh-bye...

juzzie

list
your boundaries
stake your boundaries
claim your boundaries...

plan A is ALL about being honest when the WS has no idea what honesty is...
plan A is all about being strong....

without powerstruggling the insanity...

ARK

I love RB, and Orchid is the expert...I'll try my hand at it too...

The main thing you have to be VERY clear about, is you have NO control over the WS. MB techniques are not a manipulation or trick to GET them to love you or end their A. MB techniques teach you concepts that can be used in any M, infidelity or not, to help the partners fall BACK in love with each other. Remember, you loved each other once, you can love each other again.

You cannot SAY or DO ANYTHING that will stop the A. That will need to happen on its own. He is thinking and feeling guilty, never fear about that. The A is intoxicating in more ways than one. Love and endorphins are swimming in his brain, and he is using her and the A as escape mostly from the guilt he is feeling. The A is an addiciton, and much like alcohol, you have NO control over their choices...

OK, that being said, STOP thinking that you are going to say the magic words or do the magic deed that will turn them around. What you can do is change the M and YOUR part in it, so when the A falls, you can recover and repair the M with a newer better W...YOU!

IF you resort to LB's and having your Taker out ("What about me...?") right now, then THAT is what he will remember when the OW is whiney and LBing too... You need to be the better alternative when the A egg cracks and scrambles...

The RB thing...

What I know about guys (and people in general) is they like to have people agree with them...so that is what you do, you agree with their statements, but you turn it around at the end...

Let's try these...

'weve been growing apart'

Yes Mark, we have, and now the OW is driving us even more apart. What are we going to do about it...continue growing apart or work on growing back together...

'ive so much in common with her'(cause he's known her all of 8 weeks now and been sleeping with her for 5 of them!)

Yes you do, and with me too, you have a dilemna...

But one I received by text the other day, which I wish I had known how to RB was 'i know you still love me, but I also know you are very angry with me, why haven't u kicked me out'

This is an interesting one...WS often want the BSs to kick them out, to initiate a D, to be the bad guy. They are racked with so much guilt they honestly can't deal with thinking it may be THEIR fault the M has failed...

So to answer this..."I do still love you and I am still angry with you, do you want to move out?"

Throw it back on him about moving out...and this will be the beginning of knowing his plans, of pushing him closer to HER, and closer to the reality burst of the A bubble.

OK, so you are upset about the phone...I would be too. Confront him, but do it honestly and rationally. Save this info for later when you need the strength or he tries to minimize his contact with her... Try to make it a safe place for him...no LB's...but DO confront...

YES< contact her mum, if you can...


Also, since he is close to your family, what kind of pressure can THEY put on him...

And, I would go further than calling her "SHE" or "HER", I would call her a homewrecker, or HW for short, or The Oher Woman.

I'm so sorry you are in this situation. I agree with Orchid - don't be available to him. I was in your place a month ago and went to NC - I didn't do a NC letter. Just didn't call. Once he realized that I was starting to do Ok without him, he came back. Also all that alone time with OW did the trick. When I spoke with him and asked if he was happy, he said not really. I told him that I would think she made him very happy since he was willing to give up his wife, family, and friends. His words - "when you spend time with someone, you start to see their true colors"

The OW will become needier than you ever were - just give her a chance.

Hang in there and work on you. Make your life better for you and your children.

You are in my prayers.

Nkay

Ark - I know i did wrongly. It ISNT acceptable in my universe to lie for him - i just was/am at a loss at what to do.

What should I have as boundaries??

I know for sure that NO CONTACT WITH OW with the children.

That when we go to watch daddy play soccer NO WAY is she allowed to be there.

But with regard to other boundaries - I am at a loss.

I really am.

It is weak of me I know but I just dont know where to start or what to say or do?

Please help.

Jus

Still Here - Thanks for that RB! No one is probably up now to help me, but it's almost 4pm and I know that any minute now I will get a msg from him saying why he isn't coming home tonight be it 'sorry juz, just can't come home tonight' or 'I promise I'll be home 2mrw night'

How do i respond to those in RB? Do I say ' I'm sorry you can't come home tonight either, that you need to spend another night with Home Wrecker'. "I am glad that you can promise to be home 2mrw night, I can't promise we'll be here though?'

How are they?

He has messsaged me like normal today - even spoke to me at one point. Then at 2.30 he wrote and said 'have you given any more thought to my suggestion that you go out on Sunday for just a girls day, oh and a message just before that that said 'Sean (his brother) has called me, wonder what he wants' (his brother doesn't know - unless his mother has now told him - which may have happened)

I wrote back 'I wonder what Sean wanted to talk to you about? I don't know about Sunday, Sunday is too far away to think about now' (he always has been saying to me about 'can't think about that, its too far away')

But it's really - what to say to the message I KNOW I'll get soon that worries me <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I dont want to LB but still RB....

Jus

Nkay,

"When I spoke with him and asked if he was happy, he said not really. I told him that I would think she made him very happy since he was willing to give up his wife, family, and friends"

I LOVE that line!!!! I can so use that line because he has said that he isn't happy there. But he has said he isn't happy here either <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I am so glad that he came back to you - I really hope that it happens here too.

What boundaries did you set? How on earth did you get on with your life - oh my god - it seems like my life is coming to an end, and I was such a strong woman (well - thought I was!)

I know that OW must be very very needy. I think that is why she sends him the pornographic photos of herself all the time. Because that is one of the things she really has a hold on (literally! Lol) over him.

What made me sick SICK with the photo the other day of her covered with chocolate is that I had sent a photo from the picnic that we were at of our little 18mth old filthy dirty. WH wrote back and said 'is that dirt or chocolate or both' I wrote back and said 'both'.

Then the next day, on her photo to him she said 'here is ME all covered in chocolate, aren't I cute too'

I mean OMFG - what a psychotic psycho B!tch is she. To dare to compare her naked 'eat me' photo with our little girl. So I know she is VERY VERY needy.

I was so sick with worry all last night over the 'finality' of that text I got yesterday. And yet today - he wrote to me at 7.30am and said 'morning juz, what time did the tribe awake' he wrote at 7.50 and asked if I'd seen his sunglasses. He wrote at 10am and told me he was about to leave to see the specialist (for his painmanagment of knee injury) he wrote at 10.20 and said 'damn - appointment is 11.30 not 10.30, will have to sit here and have coffee' He wrote at 2pm and asked how my day had been at the bike park with the kids.

So - WTF is going on???????

I must admit I have answered him - not every time, but I did say 'goodmorning, the youngens are up DD7 is still asleep'. I didnt answer him about the sunnies. I actually rang him about an email re his soccer game but he was just about to go into drs so he rang me back after wards and I did msg him about how much fun the kids were having.

You know, usually when Im driving in the car and the mobile phone is on 'speaker' the kids WONT shut up and im constantly saying 'im on teh phone'. Well, when he rang me back after drs the kids were soooo quiet in teh car. Here I was WANTING them to be calling and talking and they wouldn't . ihad to gesture to DD7 to say 'hi daddy' and she did and chatted and she did say 'where are you' but didnt say 'when are you coming home' (damn it) but my very sensitive DS4, when I gestured to him - he closed his eyes and pretended to be asleep! As I have posted before he is a very very very very perceptive little boy and it actually scares me ALOT some of the things he has come out with over the past few weeks.

So - anyway - way of track. I truly admire that you were able to go NC. I so wish I could. I also DO believe it would work here too. How on earth did you cope though?

Mornings are my worst time. I think it's cause when Im asleep I 'forget' how bad things are and suddenly I awake and whammo - my life is upsidedown. It takes me at least 3-4 hours to snap out of that. Which is so hard cause the kids are asking for breakfast and things need to be done etc. God help us when school goes back in a week.

Anyway - thankyou so much for posting. And anything you may feel that will help - or anything u think I am doing that is way way way off track - please let me know.

Hugs
Justine

Maybe Orchid will be around soon with some awesome RB, but if nobody else comes up with a better idea, I would just tell him, "I'm sorry you are making that choice. It hurts your children when you are not here with them as part of our family."

And just let him be for tonight unless he calls, in which case be very nice and polite, without LB'ing. Perhaps close with "We miss you" or "We wish you were here", but not saying it in a clingy or needy way. Then drop the subject.

Thanks NSYN. I have said similar lines before like last week when he was here to put the kids to bed, my DD18mth (because daddy put her to bed) when she woke up the next morning her first call out was 'daddy daddy daddy'.

I wrote to him right then and said 'it's heartbreaking to hear D calling out Daddy Daddy and Daddy not being here' and he wrote back ' I know darl'.

Well - I am glad you bloody know - get your ar$e over here! Bloody men!!!

He won't call tonight - he doesn't call anymore - everything is text's now. He doesn't even ring to say goodnight to the kids - because they will ask where he is.

Maybe I should GET them to ring him to say goodnight???

Thanks for your post mate - its now 4.20pm and no msg as yet.... Hmmmmmm. Betcha he is composing it as I type to you!

juz

It's 11:21 pm here and I just popped in on my way to bed.

I see no reason why any of the kids that want to shouldn't ring their dad before they go to bed. You can bring up the subject in the mornings when they ask for him by saying, "If Daddy's not here, I'll let you call him just before bedtime."

Then when they ask to call it's them, not you. And if he doesn't answer, let them leave him a nice long message. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

PS You're totally right about that insane woman and her chocolate!!! Be glad she is desperate and needy - things will go faster if she's not pretending to be normal, lol.

Ok - I got it - 5.20pm. This is what he said 'Am still at Kurnell, Surprise Surprise! Not coming home tonight. Got 3 outa 4 PCsdone. Very stressed! Gotta come back 2mrw now and do the worst 1 then go 2 Royal then Parra!. Saw D's pic! She's a daredevil like Connor I am sure of it! Sounds like kids had fun!'

Not even a SORRY in it - not even a bloody S>O>R>R>Y>

This was my response (thanks to you nsyn!)

"Im sorry your making that choice. It hurts ur chn wen urnot here with them as part of our family. They've already asked where u were and I said 'if daddy's not here I'll let you call him just b4 bedtime.' Kurnell sounds like rough day. Im pretty stressed 2 and could do with some companionship myself."

Orchid RB: Yes we have. I haven't moved, why have you? Do you smell?


Orchid RB: Really. So that's why you've been acting odd. Seems like hanging around a bimbo is rubbing off on you. LOL!!! Btw, I heard that same line at the beginning. I was in shock....later I learned to play back those very words, just to his distain. LOL!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />


Orchid RB: Uhm....wouldn't be too sure about that. I love my H not the Ws who you've become. 2 different beasts you know. As for kicking you out...well....been giving it some deep thought. Hm...... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Orchid RB:


Orchid: Good come back line. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />


Orchid RB: I recall telling my then WS that for all our misery someone I knew had BETTER be happy. Since is wasn't my family, then he'd better show us he is happy. I didn't care if the OW was happy or not. Then I demanded he show us immediately how happy he was. Never forget that distorted face in my living room. I almost cracked up. LOL!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />


Orchid: Good come back line....u r getting the hang of this RB thingy. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />


Orchid: My boundary started with a long list then went down to 1 major item: Get the OW OUT of my life. Even if that meant losing the WS (not a big loss btw....).


Orchid: This is gross..... I mention something about a 'stinky OW'. Btw, you can let others know about her chocolate slathering...... you know I love chocolate but this is making me sick. LOL!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />


Orchid: His momments of santity will get less and less.....unless you keep giving him enough rope to hang himself. WS' can't hold onto a rope. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />



Orchid: No More Answering. Let him wonder what u r up to. You do realize u r a hot topic of their A discussion. Lots of time is spent on scheming against you. If you are strong enough to plant seeds of doubt in the WS' mind, it will spill over into their A convos and create chaos (affectionately knows as LB from afar). LOL!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

L.

is wat i wrote ok Orchid? tonight? the last post?

Also - am seriously SERIOUSLY considering sending your letter you wrote the other day. I just transcribed it into an sms and it's sitting in my saved folder.

thanks for the RB - will study it fuller when I get the kids to bed.

Jus
PS - should i get the kids to ring him?

Maybe just change the last part to just mentione 'seems a lot of people appear stressed....but not you Ws, you r suppose to be happy giving others your misery.'

L.

He just rang.

Must have scared him when I said I'd get the kids to ring. Didnt want me to do that when she was there I'd say. Damn it - should make DD7 ring back again in half an hour when I know he's in her place.

I said to him 'so what did ur text mean yesterday?' he said 'what one' (DUH)

The one that says 'Ive gotta sort things out once and for all'

He said 'oh, it's too hard to explain over the phone'

I said 'well i dont ever see you in person Mark'

He said 'I know, soon.'

GRRR - He has all the control here - doesn't he.


My dd7 asked him 'where are you daddy? and he said 'at work still'

'But I miss you when are you coming home'

'soon'

Yeah right.