Just like I knew it eventually would. I have been refusing to allow my kids to visit WH out of state while he is living with OW. I suggested to the kids that we could meet WH somewhere half way for the weekend. He refused...said they visit him at his place or not at all.

Of course, now I am being accused of being the bad guy for not allowing the kids to see their Dad. When I pointed out that he was choosing not to see them by refusing to either come here or meet half way, I was accused of just saying stuff to make him look bad. Can't win for losing.

I need some reassurance that I am doing the right thing here.

If WH is married to OW, I think that is fair game. If they are just living in "sin", then you could argue the case that this is a bad example to set for the children because you are showing them at alternative living arrangements to marriage are acceptable.

You might be doing the right thing for the wrong reason too. I don't know because only you can answer that.

I took my DDs to stay with my SIL who is in a 10 year affair with a married man. My MC went ballistic when she found out about that. Now I feel guilty for having done it.

If you send your children to be with WH while he is married to you, you are legitimizing affairs for them. You will confuse them about what is right and wrong IMO.

No, they are not married.

And something that may not have been clear from my post, it is the kids who are saying these things...not WH.

Also, this is not something I "forced" on him. Quite awhile ago we discussed it, I explained my concerns (exactly what you said about legitimzing)and he voluntarily agreed that any visitation would take place here. He has made no effort to see them since before thanksgiving and there has been virutally no phone contact either.

I pointed out that I was not forbidding them from seeing their Dad, but that he and I had agreed to some ground rules, and I expected him to abide by them. That earned me the accusation that I was just trying to make Dad look bad. I said I was just stating the facts, it wasn't my fault the facts make Dad look bad. I do believe that he has had a change of heart about the visitation to make me look like the bad guy...and I do worry about doing the right thing for the wrong reasons and have really examined my motives on this. Honestly, it would be so much easier to just ship the kids off their Dad's for the summer. I am tired of being a single mom to 2 teenagers

Part of me believes that it is good for them to face reality and see that for all practical purposes their father has physically and emotionally abandon them for OW. But it breaks my heart to see their hearts break with that knowledge. I also know that it is easier to blame me that it is to acknowledge that fact, but it still hurts to be called names and told "I hate you".

I think having teens is the worst time to go through this. Your kids are behaving very normally, but I know that doesn't make you feel any better.

I wouldn't let my teens visit dad and the OW. It is something that is against all of my moral beliefs. Your job now is to stand up for what you have taught them.

My boys are grown, and I let them know that I didn't think they should go to family parties where their step-dad brings the OW. A lot of people here disagreed with me, but I raised my boys with certain values, and I want them to carry those on.

Oh my DD of 7 years old says she hates me at least once a day. I am starting to get used to it.

If you let children go see Dad while he is shacking up with OW, you are tacitly telling them that you find such behavior acceptable. If you do, send them. If you do not, don't let them go. It is not a matter of what your WH wants or demands, it is a question of what values you want to try to raise your children with.

That pretty much sums it up, doesn't it? I can't let them go.

It's funny, but during this "discussion", I found myself practicing "reverse babble for kids". I kept hearing them (especially DD14) say things I know came straight from WH's mouth...."Why should Dad come here to visit? All his friends and family are there...what is here for him"? To that I quietly responded "YOU". I could see the pain in her eyes when she understood what that meant.

Also heard "Why should Dad have to give up OW to have a relationship with us"? I replied, he doesn't have to...all he has to do is get a divorce. He says he wants a relationship with you and he says he wants a divorce, so I don't see why that should be a problem for him." She had no answer to that.

I am just very sad right now and very tempted to break my very good plan B with a e-mail to WH husband telling him that I am sorry he is choosing OW over his kids and that I hope at some point he realizes that making me look like the bad guy in this is not worth throwing away his children.

You could email him, but I doubt it would do any good. These WS's are deep into the fog and are very selfish. They certainly aren't thinking about their kids.

There are several other women here going through the same thing. It is par for the course with teens.

Hang in there, and try to come along side your kids and help them through this.

Your responses to the children were good. Just reinforce that their father's choices are making it hard for them to have a decent relationship with their father. As long as there is this wall and distance, they need to ask their father why he is being stubborn and putting a strange woman ahead of his own children. He needs to hear their questions.

Btw, why should you bring the children to him? He should come and get them.

Do you have a court order NOT allowing visitation out of state?

L.

I did try and bring that into the mix. DD kept saying she really wanted to see her Dad. I just responded that she needed to tell him that, then. He needs to know that you want to see him.



I only suggested it because he has been using money and time as an excuse not to see them. I thought by offering to meet half way that it would cut time and expense in half for him and dilute that excuse. In hindsight, it probably was not a good idea. I should have just let sleeping dogs lie. (no pun intended <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />)


No there is no court order, but it is limited to one weekened a month. A weekend makes them visiting there almost impossible because of the distance.

And this is what I don't get. He not only agreed to the one weekend a month, he suggessted it because at the time his work schedule was bringing him within visiting distance about that regularly. But he knew that would not last, it was a temporary situation. It seems that if he had had any long term goals of having visitation in VA, he would have asked for a longer period of time. And secondly, he very easily and voluntarily agreed not to have the kids visit in VA. I simply voiced my concerns and he immeditely agreed not to have them visit there. No court order, no nothing. And of course, if it is tht important to him he could always petition the court to have the temp parenting plan modified. I kind of believe that OW is pressuring him not to visit here so as to limit contact with me.

I also wonder if he has not taken it to court because he is afraid that it might snowball into getting the divorce finalized. That a judge will just go ahead and say...let's finally get this settled for good. I know that is the reason I have not pushed for a court order...don't want to rock the boat and remind the court that this divorce has been sitting untouched for over a year now. In March we had a status call...where our attys had to go in front of the judge and let him know how we plan to proceed and if we are ready to set a trial date or settle. I am almost embarrsed to say that I have no idea what happened at the hearing. I haven't called my lawyer because it costs $$ to do that and I am assuming that the court would inform me if any date had been set. Anyway, that was six weeks ago...if he wanted to set a date that would have been the time to do it.

Well, finally got an email from WH today. He emailed me at work (I don't have the capability to block him there) asking about what arrangements I was willing to work out with the kids for the summer. He did say that he was willing to "comply with my wishes", whatever that means.

I responded....do not email me at work. If you have something to discuss with me please use a third party as I have requested ...and left it at that. Not sure if that counts as breaking Plan B or not. It is literally the first communication we have had since xmas.

I know that he is reluctant to use third party, just not sure why. When we were talking he went on about the close knit group of friends he has made.

I guess now I just wait and see. Seems that is all Plan B is about.

Wow, you are hardcore.
Well done. I am so impressed that you bounced his email right back.
Stick to Plan B.
Kate xxx

I don't know about hardcore...fed up is more like it. I breifly considered a "real" response, but just thinking about me left me cold. I knew that no matter what I said, it would lead to him responding...then I would have to respond and eventually we would right back into it all. Simply did not want to jump back into all that [email]cr@p[/email] I have absolutely no desire to engage him on any level.

It is funny how since going into Plan B I have gone from looking for any excuse to have contact, to looking for any excuse to avoid it. But I guess that is the point.

I admire your stance and realize it c/b hard but you are setting a good example and in reality saving yourself from a lot of future heartache.

Now the WS on the other hand has been handed back his misery and from your posting, he doesn't quite like it. Notice how he said he would do whatever you wanted? Hm.... be careful, that sounds like a bait to engage you in a convo where his WS side will attempt to regain control over you. Don't let it happen. You talk with him when you are ready. Breaking plan B doesn't land you in jail. It is in place to protect you so when u r ready or strong enough to take him head on.....you will know and can right control the discussion and it's direction.

Very proud of u. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

take care,
L.

Thanks Orchid, but don't give me too much credit. The truth is, it isn't hard to stay in Plan B. I have gotten to the point that I just don't care anymore. Whatever affection or respect I ever had for WH has died of starvation. There isn't even any anger or bitterness or even sadness. Maybe just a little bit of pity mixed with a whole lot of distrust. That's it.

I do kinda wonder, though if he and OW have broken up and that is why he has so easily agreed to "comply with my wishes".

BTW, how do you change the thread title ?

Blossom,

When a BS gets to the stage you described, plan B is easier. Still needed but easier. Please read my 5 stages of grieving link to know how this is addressed. Can you have other stages happen later? Maybe. Nothing is 100%.

As for his attitude, well when one has been bitten by the A bug, coming off of it is hard. Each deals with it in their own way. Take a look as to how he handled crisis issues in the past when it came to himself and his family. Is he a conflict avoider? Is he agressive at work and in sports but would rather avoid emotional issues?

Read His Needs/Her Needs. In addition to his personal characteristic and background, the male has a different communication style than the female. This c/b a bigger obstacle to overcome than you may have realized. For me it is a big turning point. I have learned how to communicate with my H better and realize how he processes info is very different than mine. We both see that we c/b a compliment with our differernt styles yet we also have to understand that these differences need to have a positive spin otherwise it c/b diasterous (like before and during the A).

Hope this helps.

L.

He is defintely a conflict avoider. I really do need to get the book. I have devoured everything on this site, but most of it seems to be based on the book.

Any thoughts on why he seems so reluctant to use a third party? It may just be a control thing...I can't dictate how he communicates with me. But I also think maybe he might be a little embarssed to ask someone. That seems pretty consistent with his personality.

Blossom,

Sorry for the delayed response. I had to go to work for a few hours then run an errand for my aunt.

As for him NOT wanting a 3rd party....you gotta admit, it is a humiliating task. After all he is suppose t/b an adult, able to handle his own 'affairs', right? In this case he has been demoted to lower than dirt and he probably doesn't like it. If you add being a WS or Xws on top of it, well.....he just sunk another level. If he is just being stubborn or it is a control thingy, there are ways to babble right through that and shove it back in his face. We have a term here we use called reverse babble. It isn't MB sanctioned but some of us have used it and find it helps the BS give back the guilt to the Ws or Xws.

The books is good. Take the EN questionnaire also. It will help.

take care,
L.