Jen -

Glad to see you again. If you feel you have always been and always will be waiting for the OM, then the honorable thing to do is to tell Rob.

Actually, I think it is the FANTASY of the OM. He is obviously a low-life, cheating on his wife, and chasing a married woman.

I think it's the fantasy of someone pining over you...that he still wants you and chases you - it sends tingles up and down you...

Like Believer said - it's not reality hun...and you go to him, one day he is chasing someone else...and you are on the end of it........

Jen, you're thinking in circles. Please, for the sake of all of us who are rooting for you...

For the sake of Rob who loves you...

and mostly for the sake of your integrity,

Would you please tell your husband the truth?

Don't get caught up in all the why's and analysis and what the heck is going on in my head stuff.

Let's get practical, here.

Speak the truth about the events as they occurred.

Rob's reaction will change the nightmare of circular thinking you're doing right now, though you will also have to work hard to change it for yourself.

This, though:

Which is that I am so bound to him that we are almost one person and I have lost track of how I really, really feel.

Sounds like the first tendrils of fog.

and this Except....... that deep down I still have reservations about giving myself totally to Rob.


Sounds like something no one ever completely does. The goal is not to lose your individuality in your marriage, you know. It's to become stronger and more centered.

So either you're foggy or you're pretty darned confused and exhausted right now. Either way, how 'bout shining some of that good old bright light on the sitch, 'cause it's going to grow in the dark.

Yup, you heard me. EXPOSE YOURSELF.

There's something I've never before said on MB. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Jen (can I call you that?)

Are saying that your recovery was a false one? Are you having second thoughts about remaining with Rob? Did OM turn your head so far that you are in the fog again? OM is not going to ride away into the sunset with you, and then there is Rob. He is the one that saved you and loved you. He deserves better. He deserves the truth.

Jen,

I think you realize that you MUST tell Rob, and I pray that you will. Even if you didn't have circles under your eyes, sooner or later, Rob will know the truth. There is no way that you can keep this a secret, because your relationship will change and Rob will figure out that you are hiding something. If he's anything like me or most other BS, he'll figure out that you've been in contact wih OM.

Don't put it off any longer, Jen. Tell Rob. He has a RIGHT to decide what to do with the rest of his life. My biggest resentment is that my H basically stole years from my life by his cheating and lying about it.

Yes, Rob may, or may not, decide to divorce you, but that is his RIGHT to decide.

And, Jen, I do feel badly that you deceived yourself into thinking that you could have a friendship with OM. And, yes, it is akin to being friendly to the rapist who violated your spouse.

I will be praying for you, Jen...that you and your H can overcome this TOGETHER.

Oh, and you and your H should expose OM to his wife. I'm quite sure that you probably aren't the only fish he's casting a line out to, and his wife needs the information so she can protect herself.

HUH? Who? What do you mean?

Kiwi are you the one that wrote that back and forth thread with Plank about being a recovered WW and him portraying the betrayed H? Maybe you should read it again!

You say never in a million billion years.
That is just so UNTRUE...Instead it took you minutes to decide to talk with him. (Then to meet for coffee and again for drinks.) Kiwi Kiwi What are you doing?
You are breaking your husband's heart. AGAIN!

Pep, instead of talking bitterly about Kiwi on the Just So thread in Recovery, why not say it to her face right here on this thread? It seems that Kiwi should be included in the discussion that is about her and her marriage. She doesn't even know that thread exists.

Why is everyone putting so much emphasis on jen and what other MB members are saying? This is a decision that jen made. She is not a victim but a willing player with OM. I do not get it. It is one thing to be supportive but it is another to ignore reality. I feel sorry for her BH who STILL does not know about this latest transgression.

Maybe there was a lesson you stepped over, Jen...

"I am wondering that myself and wondering what it means for the success or continuation of my marriage. That has nothing to do with the OM and everything to do with how I really feel, really deep down about Rob if I am totally honest."

There are three parts of a marriage...yours, Rob's and the marriage.

When you did not feel anything in the grocery store, that was your part for you...nothing to resist.

When you saw him persist, and you felt your part slip, then you ignore and report for the marriage...honoring your marriage, even if you don't feel like honoring yourself or Rob.

Important part of faithfulness.

In your corner...tell Rob right now...wake him up, go to his work...do it however you can, but honor your marriage...that is who you are...and by doing so, you will honor yourself.

LA

I agree totally with ToddAC. This is KiwiJ's life and they are her choices to make. Can't you all see that you are being "controlling"? Stop trying to "control" KiwiJ and let her make her choices. If anyone knows the consequences, she does.

Stanley,

I missed the title of that book. Can you please post it so I can buy it and read it?

I would rather divorce my WW right now than risk going through all this yet again. ToddAC has been trying to tell me there is no such thing as a FWW.

I am so sorry I let what KiwiJ does affect me. That is not her responsibility. Her life - her choice. Leave her alone.

Traic...we really got to work on your "controlling" concept...LOL...Jen chooses. She's choosing right now...not to tell. She chose not to tell. We can't make her...we are urging her, out of love, no threats...what? We won't invite her to our birthday parties?

We admire her...accept...love and cherish all she is...and she brings it to MB...doesn't negate all her advice, all her beliefs...doesn't take back all the good she has done by being in this world and here on MB...

She influenced others and allows or disallows others' influence. Her choice.

Doesn't mean we are controlling by exerting our influence so that it travels around the world to land at her door like a gift-wrapped present, when opened, sounds like a shrieker (Harry Potter)...

Still love in the sending...support being scrounged around inside of us...and lessons to be learned.

LA

Stanley,

The book or reading material you referred to as "TOW" is what traicionado is referring to. Your posts reflect my sentiments precisely and I am most interested in reading the book you referenced.

Yes Stanley, The ISBN would be even better. Thanks in advance.

I'm with LA. Jen has given good advice and I for one appreciate it. I think a lot of us can advise others, but have sometimes have problems applying it in our own lives.

Prayers to Jen and ST.

Jen, I don't know you that well, as I said in my first post, so I certainly don't hate you. I do hope you can repair your marriage. And I feel deeply sorry for your H.

I seriously am having trouble reconcilling the Jen of this thread with the Jen that wrote so many wonderful threads.

JustJ and JL especially are giving you compassionate and realistic advice and are inviting participation from you. I hope you will reach back to them.

I wish you healing and peace, Jen... and a whole heap of healing for your H... I won't offer anymore advice because I really don't know you (though I will echo the chorus that says to tell your H - and pronto). Your thread triggered me, as it did others, and I let my emotion take over. I apologize for that.

Jen, I am not actually directing this at you, but rather at the poster/s who felt/feel that the first encounter in the grocery store was not so bad; that it didn't become bad until later. However, I don't want to say this behind your back, either.

For any who didn't see it on my thread, this exact scenario occurred a few weeks ago between my FWH and the OW. He saw her in the grocery store, fortunately before she saw him. He left his cart where it stood and walked out of the store.

I would have been devastated if he had only told her 'hi' in passing. I don't know if our marriage would survive a chat. The only possible IF to that one would be if he told me immediately, then I would at least consider it.

WALK AWAY!!!!! What is so hard about that? Which means more to you, your dignity, your little cart of groceries, or your marriage?

Just leave the cart and exit the store. It is not ok to say hi. It is not ok to smile at them. It is not ok to speak to them or look at them. LEAVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Do not fall into the trap of thinking that a little contact is not too bad, as long as it was by accident and didn't last very long.

I am totally serious here. Nothing should be more important than maintaining NC. Are you in the laundromat? Don't stop to get your clothes; send someone back for them. Which do you value more, a few clothes, or the spouse who loves you?

Are you in a restaurant and your food hasn't arrived yet? Leave the money on the table and walk out. Food and money can be easily replaced. Love and trust cannot.

At church? Get up and go. At the theater? Leave before the movie is over. In line at the bank on Friday afternoon and it's taken you two hours to get to the front? Give up your place. At the barber? Run out with the haircut half done, tossing a twenty over your shoulder.

NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING is more important than protecting your marriage. This idea that the first meeting in this instance was ok, is just plain wrong. Deadly wrong.

Thank you for letting me borrow the podium for a moment, Jen.

Traicionado and Todd:



I read TOW to get a better understanding about what a married OW really feels for the OM. You can get that here, but the text will almost always be colored to reflect the philosophy of MB.

Not only that---------in many occasions one will find FWWs saying out loud that OM is lower than whale feces in the bottom of the ocean, but still pine in secret for the good old days of the affair.

Even the most repentant FWW will acknowledge to herself that some aspects of the affair were a lot of fun. OTOH, to hear FWWs in MB talk about their FOMs is like having someone describe a vacation in Siberia.


This is the issue at hand:

There are a few possible scenarios for a WW to return to the marriage-------------this is the one that worries me:

OM may actually be the better suited for her, but OM ends the affair and she must return to the BH. In this instance the marriage may be OK, but in the end it mostly has to do with trying to make the best with the hand they were dealt. The so-called second choice syndrome where both spouses accept a less than perfect marriage for the good of the family, children. pension plans, mortgage, common property, ect.



This is what KiwiJ said:


This is a classic Freudian mechanism of defense. The classic analogy is that of a starving person trying to knock down fruit from a tall tree. After several hours of lack of success the hungry person then says out loud: ”Well, I am not really that hungry”. Jen was not interested in OM because OM was not available to her. However, when OM became available her position changed. That is why I read TOW. I needed to see what was inside the head of a typical MOW.


And as the story goes---------the starving man cannot say to himself he is not hungry forever. At some point the mechanism of defense fails.



I totally agree.






Jen------you need to be true to yourself and with Rob.



I have read about the lives of hundreds of MOWs. Many remain married to BH, but deep inside they still long for OM. You will not see a single OW admit to that here, but I know it happens.

NSYN,

Oh, but that was NOT the first encounter.

The first as I recall was more than a year ago..a chance encounter..and KJ was just so pleasantly suprised to have been able to carry on mild social conversation and feel nothing.

She did tell her H about that one [I can't recall if it was right away or not] and yes he was hurt that she had sustained contact..

I believe that it was the encounter WAAAAY back when..that paved the road for this one with all it's chaos because..there was no particular backlash in an immediate an obvious way.



I doubt very ..VERY much that KJ went from zero to sixty in the course of a few seconds..what I think..is that from THAT time to THIS moment the possibilities have been bubbling away.

She was convinvced it was a good thing. A real step forward. An indication of just how recoverred she was.

A door that had been shut..was from that point on, open.

OM stepped right through clean as a whistle. She went from being wholly committed..to having an actual DATE with OM..and her H *still* doesn't know. Let's all run around in a big circle.

So could any OP..which is why NC..REAL NC is crucial and permanent.

I have seen several instances in which FWSs have bucked against the limitations of permanent NC [not necessarily because they longed for contact..but because they didn't want to acknowledge a lifelong weakness or area of personal failure]..and every single one of them has fallen right onto their face as a result of not maintaining that boundary.

This does not mean that every contribution KJ has made was a lie..it does not affect the merit of her thoughts in any way for me..it is just one more sad example that these dragons do still have teeth, and we regard them as domesticated at our own peril.

No life guard on duty.

So what is TOW?

Neak and I talked about this today while she was chatting with me to keep me awake on my long drive home from work. (What a nice daughter, not to want to collect her share of my life insurance policies too soon!) I didn't understand her position at first; I think I understand it better now, but I'm still kind of of the opinion that if I were in her shoes (having never been in her shoes, you understand, so I can be free with an untested hypothesis) I would expect to find it self-affirming if my husband, brought face to face with his OW, without planning and without warning, would say to her (sternly and without any warmth--but maybe with a little heat!), when she tried to speak to him, "You were told to never speak to me again. Leave me alone." And then turned and walked out of the stoor, leaving her standing there with her teeth in her mouth, and her pride in shreds.

But maybe that's just me. Apparently Vindictive is my middle name. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

t&l