One of the problems I see on this board is that there is (sometimes) far too much supprt for a WS that is actively deceiving her H. Yes, everyone here is saying you should tell... blah, blah, blah... well how about setting the record straight.... Kiwi has knowingly harmed her M yet again. Her actions were planned and required deception. The supermarket was one thing... out of her control... up to the point where she had ANYTHING to say to the OM. As soon as she engaged in conversation... she set her M back years... she intentionally harmed her H... and yet there is so much support for her here... well, I say poor Rob. The poor man has no idea that his W is about to rip his heart out again. He has no idea that what he most likely considers a good life... she considers to be a bore.... Kiwi sounds like an immature woman that needs the thrill of creating chaos in order to be happy.
This has nothing to do with your inability to completely give yourself to Rob. It has everything to do with a lack of morals, character and integrity on your part. The day that you tell your H about what happened and let him decide how he wants to handle the lastest "cr@p sandwich" you have laid on the table... is day #1 that you can begin rebuilding your integrity and character. Until you do so, you are deceiving H everyday...each day is a new lie... each day is a betrayal...
I hope that you have found the courage to talk with him....your owe him that much NOW.... TODAY! Failure to do so speaks volumes about your character.
I wish you well... but mostly, I hope your H can recover from this.

I have re read much of this thread and see that there are many here that are right on the money with their take on Kiwis actions. I'm glad that many here have decided to not drink the Kool Aid.

So you are saying that KiwiJ went from being FWW to WW? or, in other words, she got the F outta there. And now you are suggesting that maybe BH should be given the same option? I see...

I cannot determine if you are being sarcastic, obtuse, or deliberately provoking...so I can only answer as if you are being serious.

Yes...she stepped outside her marriage when she went on those 2 dates with the OM. Her H needs to be able to make HIS decision on what to do...and he can only do that if he is given the information that is OWED to him. That information is that she stepped outside the marriage.

There was a payout for her...some kind of emotional payout or she would have NEVER gone on those dates. She could have shot him down right in that store but she didn't because she didn't want to.

He deserves the truth...regardless of how much TV he watches.. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

committed

The problem with a BS trying to be vigilent of a WW:

WW is all dressed up and about to head out the door on a Friday Night with no prior announcement of this.

BH: "Honey, you wouldn't be going out to have drinks with the OM would you?"

WW: {(thinking) CHING! He suspects something. Does he know that I was planning to go slug back a couple of G&T's with the pool boy and then head back to his place for some wild s3x? Wait! He never asked me about s3x did he? He only mentioned "drinks". But, if I have - say - coffee, I won't really be "drinking" will I?}

WW: "No"

BH: "Will you be coming home early or late?"

WW: {(thinking) okay this one is not so bad. I don't have to lie at all!}

WW: "I will definitely be cumming later."

BH: "Okay, be careful."

WW: {(thinking) CHING! Now I have to remember to buy a CONDOM!}

WW: "I will."

BH: "Okay, see you later".

WW's are experienced and well-versed liars. You really need to give them a 500 question exam or they will find their way around the issue and never have to tell a "lie".

agreed.

committed,

This whole conversation started on my thread before KiwiJ started her own. If you will go back, I have consistently told her that her top priority was to tell Rob with zero delay or hesitation. Yes I am being serious. KiwiJ is not an FWW. She is a WW. Period. Rob has the right to know that. Right now.

There is NO DOUBT that she is a WS. She has lied to her H, involved OM in their lives again... she is one step away from being on her back with her legs in the air. Radical honesty... anyone remember that! POJA... anyone remember that... I guess Rob said... "sure honey, go have a good time!" NOT. She is a WS.

Then we agree! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

committed

Jen,

I think some part of you is hoping he finds this thread so you don't have to tell him yourself. Am I wrong?

AN:

You took my short sentence in a very literal way. This is what evangelicals do when they read the bible. I was simply saying that it is better to end the marriage and then try a relationship with someone else. As per Bob Pure, I do not advocate falling in love while one is married. I guess I used the term as one would use an idiomatic expression.

I agree, many women use men for SF when they are young and studly looking. However, in our age group women generally fall for men that pay attention to them despite their non-Hollywood looks.

The issue is:

It is far easier to rebuild a marriage when the WW never wanted to leave the marriage. If the WW was determined to leave the marriage then the ball game is more difficult.

Ya know...I don't see any of us that consider Jen a friend, "supporting" her becoming a WW again. We are simply doing what we can to encourage her to come clean with Rob and OMW. That being said, I can't stop being her friend because she screwed up. I won't support her actions but I will still love her.

Do you know if Jen lied to her BS before she went to meet the OM for drinks Friday night. Where did she say she was going or where did she say she had been? OR didn't it come up. Obviously, a lie of omission if it didn't come up and her H never noticed anything.

Did you lie to your H initially, Jen? Just curious, how you convinced yourself to do that?

I know I'd want to know where my H was going or why he was late on a Friday evening. If she out right lied...then that will only compound the problem.

Anyway, you need to fess up to your husband about what has happened.

I think some WS's dont understand the extent of the pain that they have caused and what renewed contact causes, until they are faced with loosing their spouse themselves.. its one thing to read about, its a whole different ball game being faced with the pain that the BS has suffered.

I do know thats how it was with me, in a way i am grateful that it has happened to me, i think i would have taken it too lightly had it not happened to me. Was a lesson i had to learn. Cant appreciate something if you have never been faced with loosing it.. my two cents..

Jen, you were one of the first who posted to me, to show me kindness...

Because of the severety of the damage done to me and my daughter by someone who put their own selfish desires ahead of my sanity, safety and ability to make reasonable, sane choices I can not, will not remain a friend to someone who will not show the most basic of human kindness to another human being as to be honest with them.

The sick feeling in the pit of my stomach grows stronger each day you do not come back here and let us know that you have discussed this with Rob.

I don't know if it is that we all have been so badly hurt by secrets/lies and betweens, that this is like a great big punch in the groin...you not telling him yet.

I know that something is going on with you that you would have slipped back into WW mode, but everyday you stay there is worse for Rob and the damage becomes greater.

I know that had you discussed this with him by now you would be here looking for support/help, so I can only guess you have not. You see the pain done to all our friends here by their WS secrecy/darkness and I just don't understand.

I am thinking of you and praying that you are moving towards living in integrity once again.

Would you tell Rob if you had the chance???

And, yes, you can stop being someone's friend when they are intentionally acting in an immoral and deceitful way. It is my opinion that to remain friends with someone when they are acting like this is inviting this crap into your own life. Would you remain friends with a wife abuser? A child molestor? A murderer? It is my opinion that she is abusing her H and children in one of the worst ways possible. Now, that's a good friend to have.

I applaud you. I also pray that she finds her way and that her H comes through this whole and not crushed.

Yes, I would tell Rob AND the OMW given the chance. I can still gently admonish and encourage Jen. Turning your back on someone does not help them. Should I have turned my back on my H while he was lying and cheating? Really, what happened to hate the sin but love the sinner? Christ calls me to that and to take the plank out of my own eye before taking the splinter out of my brother's eye.

Really, what would be accomplished by everyone turning their back on someone who is messed up in their thinking but WANTING to find their way back. What happened to being the lighthouse?

Weaver, I love you my dear friend but think about it. You can choose your friends that is your right...but where would you be if you were judged and discarded by your friends?

I can't handle dishonesty, someone elses dishonesty almost destroyed me, my daughters mother. I won't tolerate dishonesty in any friend of mine.

And I wouldn't want a friend who would tolerate it in me. I want my friends to judge me if I am hurting another human being. I count on them for that.

I value marriage more than most of you can ever understand, given that I have never been married...and I value people, their sanity, and their right to make choice regarding that sanity more than life itself.

So I will judge her, until she allows her husband his right to dignity and sanity.

We were all undestanding in the beginning of this thread, because nobody doubted that she would talk to him soon...and this is the point where the understanding changes.

I have intentionally stayed out of this because I don't have enough experience with Jen personally to offer either any helpful support, but this statement is something I have said myself and then had come back to bite me in the butt. Can I humbly offer a little personal perspective?

Like I said, this was an exact duplication of something I once said to someone I considered a very good friend. She had betrayed me beyond belief, but I told her TO HER FACE that I wasn't going to stop being her friend just because she messed up. I wasn't going to stop loving her.

Four and a half months after that, I completely broke off that friendship. Why? Because my friend continued to remain in that "screwed up" state. She continued to lie, she crossed boundaries, and she remained in self-preservation mode at all costs, no matter how many people she hurt. She may have stopped the one destructive behavior that caused the original betrayal, but she continued in other behaviors that caused the same amount of pain for me and others I loved. I gave her every chance to stop, to turn away from the unloving things she was doing, but she continued. So I ceased being her "friend". I stopped offering moral and emotional support. I stopped "being there" for her, because to me it seemed that all she wanted was someone to tell her that it was going to be okay, no matter how awfully she was behaving, that I'd still be there for her to continue to stomp all over.

I was enabling her.

Do I still "love" her? Well, yes and no. I do not love her as a person anymore, because I have seen no evidence of fruits of the Spirit in her, and that is very important to me PERSONALLY to see in people I consider my closest friends. However, I do still love her soul, and I pray for her daily, even if she was half of the reason hers and my marriages have gone so horribly wrong. But any love I have for her soul is independent of my taking a stand against her behavior--I will NOT offer my support to someone who makes a conscious decision to remain in a state that is harmful to others.

I'm not saying that's what is happening here, but does there come a time when we stop offering support if someone refuses to do what they KNOW is right and necessary? Truly, I'm not meaning to offend or call anyone out personally. Not even Kiwi.

If you want to bring religion into this fine...

Abhor that which is evil Romans 12:9

I do not see where Kiwi wants to find her way back. She KNOWS the way back and is ignoring her duty. She is actively harming her family. Period. Messed up in her thinking is one thing... harming her family is another.

So, where do you draw the line? Child molestor? Murderer? Where do you say that person has values that are not reflective of who I would call a friend. If they repent, then that is another story. But she is actively sinning in the worst way for her family.