This could be a catalyst which brings Jen and her BS closer together, or it could be the catalyst which destroys her marriage.

I believe that to delay in talking to him about this will hurt the marriage worse.

So at first glance it looked like a slip-up, now it looks like deliberate withholding of information to manipulate.

I hope I am wrong. I usually can see the good in all situations, but it is getting harder to see the good in this.

And if Jen had not shown me kindness, and I didn't care about her, I wouldn't even be on this thread...so I think I am being a pretty good friend by voicing my honest opinion about her not telling him, and how friendship until this has been done is not going to happen.

I'm sorry Faith, but this little thing about willfull ongoing dishonesty is where I draw the line in any friendship.

Her husband may not be as strong as some of our friends on the board who have lived though this kind of thing...what then?

I posted the other day something I strongly believe "behind very grievance is a miracle", so lets remove the grievance (the ongoing secrecy) and find the miracle.

Hey Jen, what say you?

Weaver ... I am right there with you ... I guard MY friendships ... and I put up a fence to keep liars and cheats OUT of my space until they are no longer liars and cheats.

Why?

because this sort of person forces an acceptance of dangerous and unsavory behavior ... UNTIL they renounce the behavior and make ammends.



I get what you are saying ... YOU have learned this particular lesson the REALLY HARD WAY ...

Hang tough Weaver, YOUR fences are very IMPORTANT...

Pep

AND

Weaver

YOUR safety & protection within your friendship circle is MORE important than attempts to rescue someone who continues to make bad choices.

You've come a long way Weaver... I am truely impressed!

Pep

AND

anyone with a current shakey marriage situation ... in the EARLY tenuous recovery years

ought to monitor their support efforts for Kiwi's situation and concentrate on their OWN back yard !

Why?

Because every minute/hour/day/week you spend trying to support a marriage outside your own is STEALING from YOUR family!

Think I am wrong?

Ask your family... "Would you like me to spend less time on the phone or on the computer trying to help a woman on another continent, and instead spend more time with you?"

It is easier to support Kiwi, in some instances, than do your own Marital recovery Work.

time for tough love people

pep

I am not out of hope yet that the right thing will be done, and perhaps is being done right now.

But I am worried. Silence is very telling. Still, I hope Jen will be back for support to earn back her F, with or without her BH.

This is sad, but such an opportunity for discussion with all the FWS's out there, because it brings up an important point about the importance of life-long NC, and gives them a chance to discuss it before it happens to them. Forewarned is forearmed, and I hope this warning to strengthen the walls around the marriage keeps some of the our dear FWS's from going down the same road.

It has occured to me that Jen did an incredibly brave thing to put this on the Board for a complete bashing. I wouldn't be surprised if other WS's have done the same thing but kept it to themselves.

Weaver, all my friends have done things that have disappointed me at some stage. Two had abortions, more than one had an affair (including one who had the most comfortable life I might add), one you could not trust to keep a secret, one took drugs, one sold her island!

Nobody is perfect. In one way or another these people have all played a part in my life and I consider their friendship of great value.

IMO, it would be better to say nothing than to infer that you are currently not Jen's friend. Sounds like the stuff I hear in the school playground everyday. Just seems quite mean.

Jen may have set a strange precedent here! Will any FWS ever admit additional contact again - I doubt it!

Kiwi has said she is going to tell her husband and that she is terrified. I believe the silence tells us she has done just that. I think that would take precedence over coming here and telling the rest of us what's going on. I would worry more if she was here after just telling her BS.

I am still hoping and, to the extent that I do these things, praying for Jen and her husband.

Jen, if you're reading, please talk to him if you haven't already.

For all the others, I think Pep has an excellent point about taking care of your own marriages before coming here.

And surely there are some here who know how to contact Rob. If it were your own marriage, would you want to know?

Make sure you can do so ethically and compassionately -- and if you can, well, it might be time.

You know that you risk the friendship by doing something like that, of course. So one of the considerations is how you can help the most. Choose carefully.

Jen, you have my support. Please, be honest with Rob. Not just about the other man, but about all the other things that threaten to destroy your marriage. Be clear about what you need, consistent in your approach, gentle with your loved ones, and unflinching in your honest evaluation of yourself and your situation.

You can make it.

and how many BW and BH have been harmed by trusting the WRONG person?

Pep

Why does this have to be seen as a deterrent to confession? Why can it not be seen instead as a deterrent to CONTACT????

I wish people would quit calling purposeful contact with the affair partner a "mistake"... a mistake is adding too much salt to the soup... a poor choice is going on a secret rendevous with someone other than your spouse.

I am horribly disturbed by what's happened here... and how lives hang in the balance. One in particular. Rob. And I don't even know the man.

I also feel awful for Jen, though as I've said, I don't know her well at all. She was always wise, kind to me, and fun to join in threads... this Jen does not seem to be that Jen. That's also sad.

I would like to add something I've recently learned: It's about "nice" and "compassion"... they are not interchangable words. Having compassion for someone, especially someone you love, may mean that you BACK AWAY and let them deal with the consequences of their own choices - good, bad and ugly. I'm sure many parents know this only too well...

Jen doesn't need to be beat up, she's doing it herself, I'm sure... and she doesn't need someone rescueing her... she needs to sit in the situation she's chosen and deal with the hard uglies of it. Most of us understand this, as well. I know I do! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

We can never know Jen's motivation for posting her story of renewed contact with OM unless and until she shares it with us. While some may praise her courage for coming forth and sharing with the MB community, the sad fact remains that she still has not told the person who deserves to know the most - her husband. In that sense, coming here for support instead of telling Rob was a cop out.

Affairs are a sultry mix of sex, love, lust, lies, deception and secrets. What bothered me the most of these was the deception that my WW lived for over four years. Jen is guilty of deception again. The only way to stop the deception is to tell Rob and let the chips, that she put into motion, fall where they may.

And BTW, Jen is not victim in this sitch. She willingly met OM for coffee and then drinks. The victims are Rob and their family.

"hard uglies"

good one

thanks NBII

.... adding to my list....

Pep <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

My post saying I would not be friends with someone who was knowingly harming another person was in response to another poster saying that they would support their friends.

I do not liken drug use, stupid choices, hard choices, etc to deceiving a man who has already been hurt beyond belief. Hurting yourself is not the same as hurting another.

I will not support dishonesty, period! Dishonesty destroys people, and of this I will have no part and will not support.

If we will not hold each other accountable to this standard, then who will? We who have all been through it and learned so much.

What have we learned if we have not learned that LIES DESTROY people.

What has been the whole point? Jen knows this, she knows this, she knows this...she is better then this and I will not support it, for her sake as well as her husbands.

I say all this on Jen's thread right out in the open, as I would to her face. And as we all grow increasingly more uneasy, the posting gets increasingly more emotional.

Because we care.

This is a community, and such is how it goes in communities.

Oh yikes, that was emotional. I think I'll remove myself from this thread...blood pressure going up.

She may, as someone else said, have already come clean.

What a sad effin week in MB land.

Kiwi, I haven't posted here in awhile because I have been focusing upon my own M and children, but let me offer you words of support. You helped me tremendously reading some of your posts when I was at some of my lowest points. Your situation could have just as easily been any of us who are FWS. Please don't give up on yourself; mistakes happen but I believe they are recoverable. I am here, praying for you, letting you know I believe you will head in the best direction

I don't think I agree with that. It sounds very supportive, but I don't think it's necessarily true.

Lori

Bob I was just arguing with Stanley's logic. he'd made the statement a few times in the last few months and I decided to take it to its logical conclusion. If a person has the brains to work on their M instead of "falling in love" with someone else, then there wouldn't be a site like this. And you don't "fall in love" with someone else unless you put a bit of time and infidelity into it. Most cases of infidelity are not about love anyway.

TT great comment from you. How many WSs keep the odd NC under their belt? I was curious to know what KJ stood to gain from telling us what she did? Not like many of us would sympathise... understand.....be happy about it? I can only imagine that she wanedt to have the last laugh. "none so queer as folk".

AN

Weaver said:



Simple..yet eloquent communication of what I was attempting to say on that other scary thread yesterday...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

My husband did the same thing as kiwi. Several times, the same OW.
He told me that if he had made an obvious effort to turn and walk away from her, she would have enjoyed knowing that she had such a negative impact on our marriage.

I told him, well she did.

My dad died last year. During a period of his life, there was a man he knew who caused considerable emotional and financial damage to my family. This man showed up at Dad's funeral and approached my mother to offer his condolences.
My mother, with the greatest economy of effort rose from her chair, looked coolly through this man and very quietly and distinctly said, "Please excuse me." Her back was straight and her head was held high, as with great dignity she left the room.



I think your idea to wait to tell your husband is perfectly calculated. The man will obviously see that you are "upset" at this point, he will have had time to prepare himself, he will see your remorse even before you have told him.

I feel a little sick now.