Work isn't going so well, my manager tells me we may well be headed into a round of layoffs, and if that happens I would be let go. My H wants to move cross-country to Southern CA, has wanted to for about 5 years. I've been there but it's not a place I'd like to move to, no offense intended if anyone lives there, just unfamiliar and very expensive. For a while I've said I want to wait a year and see if we can get where I want to go in our marriage, thinking it would be worth it to move to a place I may not like if it was with a marriage that I wanted. But last week he said he's just had it with me being unhappy, and will not agree to that. If you don't know my story, we both have a bad history of making choices without considering the other, we have two kids 5 and 10 and have moved them cross-country 4 times in four years.

To be honest I just feel bullied. He is pushing me to apply for jobs out there now because if I get laid off then it is harder to get hired, and he is hoping I would get a job with relocation benefits. We've been through this before in the past and I applied feeling like I wasn't going to be hired anyways and luckily I wasn't hired out there.

To be honest I don't like to think about going to a place I don't think I'll like for this guy. I love him, but I think that's too much to demand. He knows I'm not enthusiastic. He says he's sure I'll like it once we get there, because I've liked the other places so far we've moved for his job and mine. I say if we're moving I want him to get a job out there so I know what the hours would be like or if there's travel, two things that have been really hard on me in the past. He says I need to have faith in him that he would get a job that's not too demanding, even though he's said that before and it didn't stay better for long. He's 49 but I don't think it's MLC because he's been saying he must move out there for 5 years.

You all are so good with perspective, i hope you can make sense of this. Thanks so much for letting me lean on you all so heavy lately, I thought I was in a better place.

Please take this with a little tongue in cheek, I'm trying to find SOME humor

What should I do? multiple choice
	Just up the meds and stand by my man
	Piss him off and pay for it forever
Votes accepted starting: 05/10/06 04:58 PM You must vote before you can view the results of this poll.

ok,that was me who voted...
and i am in kinda of a bad mood myself.

but, i really do not think you should do this if you don't feel right about it.

eo,

Sorry to ask so many questions....but I'm trying to get more info before replying.

Why does your H want to move to southern CA?
Has he lived there before?
What are your objections?
Have you lived there before or just visisted?
Where do YOU want to live?
Where are your families located?
How old are the kids?

Why does your H want to move to southern CA?
He's traveled there on business many times and always loved the place and the work available

Has he lived there before?
Only for a month at a time while working out there.

What are your objections?
That if things don't get better for us and if I ever decide to go (a big if, if anything this is the best it's ever been for us and I never had the heart to leave when it was worse) that I'd be stuck in a place I have no family for this guy.

Have you lived there before or just visisted?
I've been out a few times to visit him with the kids when he was there on business and to look at businesses he was interested in investing in that fell through. Each time it was to see if I'd like it.

Where do YOU want to live?
Here in our hometown in South Florida. We both have family and old friends here.

Where are your families located?
Parents and some siblings here in South Florida. Other siblings scattered, but none in CA.

How old are the kids?
10 and 5.

Can I see the poll without voting?

Mmmm, so cal... i love it here, dunno really why.

You say Disneyland? Umm been there, even had season pass and only went once.

Hollywood? Umm, never cared much for actors. I havent even seen the tourist sites.

The Beach. Yeah, back then I loved the thought of "beach bum." I haven't been back at the beach since my vacation in Hawaii.

House prices are rediculous--hopefully someone buys my first house. Houses all over the place--place where I saw was bared empty rocks years ago are now filled with overprice houses. Crazy.

Traffic sucks.

Weather is great, even though I spend most of my days indoors.

I guess the great weather offsets the 2 hour - 30 mile commute.

Having moved my children extensively....I've made 19 moves in 23 years of marriage....I'd advise against another move....especially one that you're not enthusiastic about. Some kids move well, some don't....what are yours like? One of the reasons my H changed jobs was so we wouldn't have to keep moving our youngest child who was struggling with the continuous adjustments. My middle child could move once a week. My oldest child really became emotionally unstable after the many moves we put her through.

You guys need to do some brainstorming and negotiation....taking all of the pros and cons into account. Go to the table with your TAKER....and don't get bullied into moving again unless you can feel enthusiastic. Don't just negotiate the place....also the timing.

My H has D10 very excited about moving there, she's been out there both with him a few times and as a family a few times. She's done modelling and acting very part-time since she was 2 and has seen three local kids she's worked with here before move there and "hit it big", one is on a Disney Chanel show now and another was on FOX. Of course she knows a lot more kids who moved there and didn't hit it big, too. The move was harder on my D5, she still misses the snow in Minnesota that we moved from last year. Both are happy here, too, though. We're in the same house and the kids are in the same school we were in before we started with all the moving. That why it's hard for me, because I'd hoped we were done with moving.

You're right, I don't have to look at this like a done deal. It's hard but when it comes up again I will just be open to negotiating something that would be good for the whole family. I think too instead of allowing it to creep into everyday conversations maybe it would be better to ask to hold off for another time when we can sit down and discuss it once a week instead of every day.

Hi Ears!

I'm not sure if you know or not, but I too have moved lots since being married. We will be married 5 years this July and not including my move to join him after being married, we have moved 5 times. In those 5 years we have lived in 3 different states, New Mexico, California, and Ga. Each move has had good and bad sides to it. For the first year or so, the move has added A LOT of stress on our marriage. Learning new areas, adjusting to new lifestyles, no support etc.

Being from Ca, let me add that visiting southern Ca and living in So Cal are two total differen things. I am sure you are aware of the very expesive cost of living, from housing, gas to even electricity.

I would honestly not make a move like that unless you were 100% comfortable with it. I don't stand up for a lot of things in regards to not upset other people, however; the place I live is one thing I will not compromise. My husband has had some great job offers all over the U.S., unfortunately some of them I was not 100% thrilled about the location and wouldn't go.

Please, thing long and hard before deciding to move there.

Thanks, BTE and JL, it does help to have perspective from folks who have lived there. Last time he had a job offer there the 1000 sq. foot two bedroom condos were $700,000 and the numbers didn't work out so we could move. Basically it would entail a lot of overtime and drive time. It's hard that we have different priorities, because he said he loved the drive there, while for me that would mean we likely wouldn't be able to have meals together again, a big downside. I think that that's why he wants to move out there before he finds work because he feels things would "fall into place" whereas from here I don't think on paper it would ever make sense.

Ears

Where are the two of you at on this issue now?

Does your H have job offers in So Cal now? If not, how does he figure you can move there? Would a job offer for you in Cal be enough to pay the bills?

Is he happy where you live now? Is there a location where you would both be happy or are you at a stale mate with him wanting to live in So Cal and you wanting to stay close to home in Florida?

This statement caught my eye, "I'd be stuck in a place I have no family for this guy."

What do you mean by "this guy"? Is he your husband? Is he the father of your children? Do you love him? Are you happy with him? Is he MBing, too?

From your other thread, H Tired of W Wanting Change , you stated that your H wanted to end the marriage (May 5). Is this still the case? Where are YOU at?

You also said that your marriage lacks UA. Why is it lacking?


Mrs. W8ing

Where are the two of you at on this issue now?
We talked it out with the MC, and he suggested that we consider staying here another year until D10 finished 5th grade so it will be one less school on her list. We both agreed that this made sense.

We do not have a resolution. He still wants to take a consulting position at next June when school is over to transition over there. I still am unwilling to move unless it will have some benefit that we don't have here. I am open to hearing what any possible benefits would be. I have spoken to friends of friends out there, trying to hear something positive, but I have not yet.

Does your H have job offers in So Cal now? If not, how does he figure you can move there? Would a job offer for you in Cal be enough to pay the bills?
He is applying to positions from here, and has had some interest, but none so far pay any more than what he makes here. He agrees that the salary would have to higher than what he makes here to be able to afford to live out there.

My salary couldn't pay the bills alone out there, although it can here. That's something else that makes me feel more secure here.

Is he happy where you live now? Is there a location where you would both be happy or are you at a stale mate with him wanting to live in So Cal and you wanting to stay close to home in Florida?
He says he is not happy here. There is another place that we would both be open to, Orlando, FL, but for him it is a distant second past So Cal, enough that we aren't discussing that possibility. The other place he would be happy is NYC, but we tried it there and I couldn't make it two months. I don't know how people do it, maybe inherited wealth? It's either an hour commute each way or like we did live closer in a roach-infested tenement. We also looked further out like Poughkeepsie, which I could try, but he said that he could only get work in Manhatten.

This statement caught my eye, "I'd be stuck in a place I have no family for this guy."

What do you mean by "this guy"? Is he your husband? Is he the father of your children? Do you love him? Are you happy with him? Is he MBing, too?
I mean this guy who says I should "just trust him." IMO my best interests have always been dead last. I know now that is as much my fault as his, I never had to go along with any of it. But there is more reason to not trust than to trust. I'm sorry my resentment is showing. I have found peace only in the months that I've been here at MB, working on relying less on him.

Yes, he's my husband, and the father of my children. If you've read Why Women Leave Men, that was me, feeling overwhelmed and neglected without understanding what I contributed to being in that position. I never left, though, because there was no PA between us, and I had such a bad experience growing up in a broken home. I love him dearly, and am happy with life, but I'm not happy with our M. He's not MBing, but he has been "working on it," going to MC, cutting out AOs, meeting ENs. But the meeting ENs is still sporadic, when he's not under pressure from work deadlines, or ticked at me about some perceived slight, so it's not something I feel secure in.

From your other thread, H Tired of W Wanting Change , you stated that your H wanted to end the marriage (May 5). Is this still the case? Where are YOU at?
No, he said in MC that he doesn't want to end the marrieage, he just wants me to stop it already with talking about how I'm not going to So Cal because I'm not happy. So he stopped asking. This week in MC he said he's happy I don't talk about it anymore.

I do still ask for what I need, but I wait for a time that it seems more likely to get a positive response. My biggest EN is affection, but some days I don't ask for a hug because I can tell by his tone that I'd be rebuffed. I'm in Alanon, and that helps me not take all that so personally. It's likely not about me, and if it it was, he wouldn't hesitate to tell me <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />.

I'm not going anywhere for the time being. I still have work on me to do, and from what I read here at the boards and from others is that if I can be a consistently positive person that spouses usually respond to that. I'm willing to take the time to test that theory <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />.

You also said that your marriage lacks UA. Why is it lacking?
When I first got here it was drinking with his buddy, but he rarely has time for that now either. Also the kids' evening routines ended too late, so now I start them early even on days he has less time with them after working late. H was travelling for work, but he says that he's done for now. There are still other things that come first - TV shows, and now he has two years of continuing education credits to finish by next month to keep his CPA license. Then it will be work deadlines. Hopefully when I'm more fun to be around that will change.

It wasn't always like this. He's had less demanding work assignments, too, and we did have more time together and get along better during those respites.

Sorry, w8ing, it hit me in a big way this morning that I'm totally barking up the wrong tree. I knew from early on that MB can only provide a limited return while there are still active addictions, yet I held out hope... look he's cutting back... to think that I could love him into doing differently. You can see why I would want to think that, to hold onto that hope.

Beyond that, I am struggling to deal with depression, and that takes a big hit out of any consistency I need to maintain. One LB knocks out 10 ENs, right? So one bad day just knocks out too many good ones. I think I need to get a handle on it before I can hope do accomplish any more in my M. There are other inspiring people here who have survived trial by fire, things that are more difficult than what H and I have been through together, and come out stronger.

For the last month or so, I really feel like we're stalled. This morning, I typed out a long blow-by-blow, but really the bottom line is that there's some patterns there that just feel like they're beyond what I'm going to be able to hurdle. It just gets me down to try day after day not knowing if I'm on the right track. And I know that's a bad reason to change a plan, based on how a person feels one day or the next. But really I'm starting to think that maybe I got off track here.

I know the MB plan for active addictions is Plan B. But what is the plan if you don't know because the person has cut back? He's not drinking anywhere near as much as when I first got here. Our MC feels like we're making progress, and H and I feel like we've made progress, too. The problem with the alcohol is that it really complicates it beyond what I know what to do. I'm working my Alanon program, gave up trying to control his actions. But man, this stuff still hurts. Tonight I made plans to see a movie together with the kids that he said he wants to go to, but he feels like he's getting behind in his work so he's not coming. And he's working all weekend, too. I'm trying to be supportive, or at least neutral, but I'm lonely. I know that must sound like a DJ, like he doesn't know how to when he needs to work, and when it's okay to go home for the weekend.

Then there's Plan B. I'm not there yet, for a lot of reasons. I'm not comfortable thinking of H having visitation with the kids while he's so negative. I'm unhappy with the kids and I having such a small slice of him, so just cut it off altogether? And I am still so in love with H, it hurts to think about losing him.

EO,

Alanon is not just about knowing you cannot cause, control of cure...it is about knowing your own choices.

When you consider extreme remedies, know that you are in control mode...when you see absolutes, you are closer to feeling your young child in you rather than your adult.

You've been focused on seeing where your power ends...that God given limit we all face. How have you been doing on the beliefs behind that fear of being powerless, separate...?

As long as you give yourself permission to focus on him, you cannot get to your own power. You're in your way.

Lonely is a dangerous feeling. Was for me...and at the other end of the journey, I can tell you that you are making yourself really lonely...Lonely is yearning for self, and your focus on him is making you lonely.

Did you make plans to see the movie for the kids, for you or your H?

Choose self-care, EO. You're worth it. You're worth your focus. IC now would be a great act of self care.

LA

You've been focused on seeing where your power ends...that God given limit we all face. How have you been doing on the beliefs behind that fear of being powerless, separate...?

As long as you give yourself permission to focus on him, you cannot get to your own power. You're in your way.

Lonely is a dangerous feeling. Was for me...and at the other end of the journey, I can tell you that you are making yourself really lonely...Lonely is yearning for self, and your focus on him is making you lonely.
That's a good question, one that I have thought on today, and will continue to think on. I have been more focused on how I can my M better more than I have been focused on being happy as an individual. I have a lot of fun with my kids, friends and family. But I kind of regard it as "filler" until I can be with H. I am glad that you pointed that out, because that doesn't sound healthy to me.

My beliefs... well, especially since coming here, I fear if I let this connection drop, that it will slow us down that much more. I do have a close friend that also says that I need to be more of an individual than just waiting for attention. It's hard because if I don't make an effort to "be in the rooms of his house" I get shut out, and that's had bad consequences for me before. Is this something I need to let go of, too? To get out of my own way?

How scary, I feel like I hold on to him by a thread as it is already. If H read that, he'd tell you that's all in my head. But he doesn't consider my best interest in taking work assignments already, so I guess this is part of that illusion of control that I need to realease as well, right?

LA, his coworkers, he describes situations I don't think I could live in. Just forever with the travel, no respite, only weekends. And the ones who work in town, working until midnight, go home after everyone is asleep, and leave at 6am before anyone is up. With no end in sight. At parties, I talk with these women, not complaining, just making conversation, and they all seem to accept and support it. That's my fear.

Did you make plans to see the movie for the kids, for you or your H?
This time, for my H. I miss him. He just finished travelling a week ago. I was telling my best friend about HNHN and UA time and I tought that was just the solution that we needed, and our MC also stressed the importnace of making time for one another, but my friend says I just make it worse this way. That if I gave him more breathing room, he may show more interest. I know he needs breathing room either way, and I try to give it. But every time it comes back to slap me in the face. It does hurt when given a choice your spouse never chooses time with you. But this is the first time I've really considered that this was my part in this problem, that I focus my life too much around him.

Choose self-care, EO. You're worth it. You're worth your focus. IC now would be a great act of self care.
Thanks, LA, I know it's probably past time to get to IC, I meant to call Friday to get an IC appointment, and got flustered and didn't. I can do that Monday, though.

"It does hurt when given a choice your spouse never chooses time with you."

First, when you phrase something as an objective statement, "It does hurt when," see that as a signal to self that you aren't claiming your feelings as valid. They are. Defacto. Another signal is the use of "never" and "always" (forever, ever) to guide you to your pain and fear...which comes from your inner child. They say we don't know time until about four years old...when we go through the stage of trying to get, "I'm doing that yesterday"...remember your kids going through this? That's about the age you might feel when you face deep frustration, pain, anger, betrayal...because we learned time to connect with others...to be in sync with them...and it sort of is like our first self-betrayal.

The human brain doesn't know time, really. Only present. You can see toddlers and infants be in present only...and then we leave it behind...buy into this time business to connect, to not feel alone...in fact, not understanding time and seeing our parents' giggle and grin over our statements told us we were failing to learn...

Anyway...these signals are important. They are for you, about you...you've got a lot of them going on.

And I want you to know I see all of your frustration, anger, despair and worry as valid...I've lived with a spouse who's work came first to him...and at times, still does...however, changing my perspective changed everything.

These coworkers are choosing their lives, so are their wives. No rhyme intended. See the choice...know you have yours...and that the problem is not your H...it is in you, what you value and desire, and in him, his choice and what he values and desires.

Get to know what he values and desires separate from what you assume.

Ask him.

"I have been thinking about how much travel, work and commitment you give to your job. I don't think I could do that. What drives you?"

Listen with that hopper on your head...no assumptions or mindreading...really here him, if he'll answer.

Your best friend sounds like good counsel...I would like to flip around the advice, though...you aren't giving him anything...shifting your focus to self in order to know and understand yourself will leave your H breathing room as a by-product. If you make it your intention to give breathing room, though you're doing essentially the same thing, then you remain manipulative...matters to our Giver/Taker...intent matters.

Know what feels like a slap when your spouse chooses not to spend time with you? That's your self slapping you from the inside, too...that you don't choose to spend time with self...the need to be filled up from the outside. I realize this is a really contrary and difficult, inside-out kind of belief...yet I've experienced it by choice. I know that loving from the inside flows outward...filling ENs from the joy of filling ENs...and understanding my ENs and seeing love as a gift from, a choice from my H instead of the codependent way of giving to get, which is also tit for tat, and being consumed by my focus on the whole import/export kind of love.

Earning love will kill it. Every time.

As for the movie...you are mothering your H. You are providing what is best for him...what would be nice, relieving, special and considerate...how you would see it, not him. He may see fear, conflict and judgment in going to the movie with you and the kids...get to know what he thinks--he's your equal--because you love the way you see the world (and I like the way you see it, too, as do many people here), and it's yours. When we give gifts, we cannot feel slapped. When we do for others with expectations, we can feel down right mauled.

Our choice.

LA

LA, I'm so glad you were up! This can be so confusing, conflicting, I know we need more time, yet I need to give up the push for the little time we do have. Yet it is starting to make sense. That his isn't something I can do alone, decide this is time we need to be together, that may be a DJ in itself, assuming I know what H needs when if I asked he may well respond differently.

I hear you about the never, and when I reread it, I pondered on whether that was a valid statement, and I can't recollect H asking for time with me. And believe me, if he had I would have snatched that up and relished it, and wouldn't soon forget. Wow I guess I really do need to check my hyperfocus! I know that has a lot with the mirror that you were talking about, too, that if I were "good enough," he'd want to be here, so I watch him for signs. My five yearold stills asks if it's tomorrow yet, so this I understand.

It was less confusing perhaps when we fought all the time, he wanted to escape the fighting. Then I push back my LBs, and we don't fight the same way anymore, and still. He choses not to spend time with me. Even when I'm at my best, a lady who doesn't yell, a goal I never even knew I could get to. I hear you, though, that I need to find validation from self, not from a mirror.

Did you read that link wiffty posted? About the things we fear not impacting us the way we feared? I can step out in faith. I'm sorry I thought I got this, but didn't.

I'm still reading Between Parent and Child. Beautiful book. A lot of the implementation made it to the teaching curriculum I took, but now I know why with a deeper meaning. Oh, but it makes me less tolerant of how others deal with my kids. Good thing I read up about DJs so before reading this book so I can attempt to keep a handle on that! And I'm glad that it talks also about how to defend our kids.

I'm so glad you're still up, too.

"and I can't recollect H asking for time with me."

How about the very pursuit of substantiating a "never" shows you how much you want to be right...rather than married?

See, your H's love language may have been begging for something from you and you can't hear that language...what is his is his...yours is yours. Get into that separate and equal state. Time is important to you. Yet, you discount his presence...on weekends...and presence matters.

He fears. He just does. Begin the dialogue without prejudgment...break your DJs which come from fear and the desire to know (to be right or in the right). I'm asking you to open yourself...to you and to H.

You're in God's hands...were loved before you were made...you remain in love...this has nothing to do with you being wrong...it has everything to do with you being.

I will read the link again, if I did...thanks for the heads up.

You are receiving the lesson of the importance of intent...you stopped the LB's because you assumed your H was escaping the fighting. Stopping the LB's because you don't want to LB anyone was the key. If you do or don't do based on a response you want...then you are self-betraying.

How much time do you spend on yourself? How much time do you give yourself to meditate, walk, consider...how often do you hug yourself, cherish your being, smile at your own humor and congratulate yourself?

How much time do you choose to spend with you?

LA

That makes sense. He has said things to the effect like you said, that his presence matters. What if I said I think he's here because he doesn't like to be lonely either? Is that projecting? Definitely a DJ. I will listen to him with an open heart.

I stopped the LBs for a lot of reasons. I was raised like that, and knew my kids deserved better. I understood the intent behind the LBs, to have a voice, but came to understand I already have one. I wanted some peace in my home. And yes, I did see that there was no room in my M for LBs. But there are many other ways that I have betrayed myself. I'm still learning my way around that.

I have been spending more time alone, too, I guess around 15-30 minutes a day. Been exercising, walking, reading. I want to add some daily time for prayer. But I see that I use this to some extent as filler as well, when I was sad that H was out of town or asleep on the couch. I will be more mindful of this, thanks! Were there any resources you found really helpful?