I mean with your kids, sounds like trial by fire, and you all made it through. Reading about your situation with your H, I know it will be hard for some time yet, but you have it in you to survive through that, too.

It wasn't until I spent a lot of time at these boards and in meetings that I really got this. And then LA with the mirror analogy, that I was looking at the image I thought H had of me as a mirror, and if it was a good picture, I was happy, and if it was a mean picture, I was in despair. I was 21, not yet a mother, I have grown since then. Still eager to give, but no longer willing to give 'till it hurts. Because I don't have to betray myself anymore. I don't have to judge myself and feel like a bad guy.

Hit the nail on the head again.

A few months ago was the first time I set a boundary and refused to break it. I was so upset, sad, and flustered, but held firm. In the end, he seemed to accept it. No, I see the same way I don't trust my H to be honest, he doesn't have reason to trust me to say what I mean and mean what I say. It makes sense that he would keep pushing. I still need to show consistency over time.

I'm starting to recognize patterns. The payback, yes, I do know it's coming, but I don't need to fear it. I have boundaries to protect myself.

I like that last line best. You are gonna be okay Ears, you really are.

J

bump for Stacy, and an update.

The payback came, H says he will no longer be comfortable providing affection, my top EN. I am so grateful for LA and Jamie's help with this, it will truly be okay. I have taken time alone this week, and I don't see it as "filler" anymore, I'm loving it. I had been concerned about our love banks going empty, but truly, there's enough there to last a while, and with boundaries I can prevent more withdrawals. I'm still meeting what needs I can.

It is only payback if you believe it, EO...

Don't choose the worst belief in the bunch...

Print out and read those four rules of marriage...say how you're working on understanding them...not having a give to get marriage...how dedicated you are to respecting individual choice in a two-party marriage.

Break the cycle. Act from your code, EO...feel your own reward...it is like learning to fly...very scary, at first...in fact, the more you focus on the leap, the more afraid you get...until you fly.

You're doing it...you will get there. Listen and repeat...keep the hopper on your head and do not allow yourself to DJ...so that you will not DJ yourself, either...

Honorable, loving, marvelously made EO...

LA

Equal and separate. With his own struggles to fight. I can be a soft place to fall, instead of judging. Thanks!

And you can be a soft place to fall for yourself...best part of being a reformed pleaser/abuser is that everything we tried to do for others, to soften, comfort and cure...we were craving to do for ourselves.

Your changes go both ways...outward and inward...

Do you know how awkward I feel judging your judgments?

I feel sooooo blonde.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

((((EO)))))

LA

Thanks again, I was just thinking about that this morning, how I can make my life easier on myself. One of my big problems is being very lonely. I work out of the house, which sounds ideal with kids, but to be honest it just makes me lonelier. So I'm thinking of working towards a transfer to work in an office again.

Hi ears,

Sorry not been around much, lots going on here. But.

Peace starts with a smile.

He is trying to bait you, he is turning up the heat. Not dj's, just observances from one who has been there and learned the triggers.

You are controlled by those who anger you.

If you do not eat the bait, the hook cannot snag you. So you are thinking right. You are discovering self love, self action, self protection and self comfort. Go get yourself an outside job - even if only part time out/part time at home.

If it means that day care is a new expense, what is that to the larger scheme of things? The trade off is enjoying your life, your time and your space and while you are at it, feeling less lonely, feeding your need for convo and affirmation, acceptance and knowing your own intellegence.

The benefit is having more of yourself to give to your family, because there is an expanded you. All important to you, and more importantly, the seeing you happy and how you relate to the world and to the obvious pressure you are under, your babies will see you find positive ways to grow and expand you own self. These will feed them the idea that there are always solutions and they too are worthy of finding them in their own lives.

They seem quite attune to your needs and emotions (your D noticing his trip is on your annivy and prolly looking at you w/concern as to how you are digesting this important piece of info) and to what is going on. Your reactions now will teach them how not to be an overgiver. How the choice is within you.

BTW did you get my email? Let's really schedule something soon.

hugs sweetie.

Still praying.

J

The heat has turned up, and to be honest I'm not used to it yet. The listen and repeat, so foreign to me at first, now that I'm a little more removed makes more sense. At first it hurt to repeat things that felt meant to be painful. I know it's taken a lot of repetition, but I'm getting to the point that I can say to myself, it's not good, or bad, it just is. I still have my boundaries, I get away when I am feeling hurt, but I don't need to do that as quickly or as often.

I should have said, too, working from home is not any real bonus with the kids, because when they're sick, instead of taking a sick day home as usual, I'm expected to still put a work day in. So neither my work nor my kids gets what they need. They do go to afterschool care already, and will be going to summer camp, because I'm a programmer and it's too hard for me to focus as intently as I need to and attend to the kids well at the same time. I tried for a while, but it didn't work well.

"At first it hurt to repeat things that felt meant to be painful. I know it's taken a lot of repetition, but I'm getting to the point that I can say to myself, it's not good, or bad, it just is."

Where was the hurt coming from before? When you stopped assuming intent and asked for clarification or confirmation when you repeated, did you stop the mindreading/assumption...so the hurt decreased...or did you stop from buying into his beliefs as yours?

Do you get your admiration/appreciation EN primarily met by work?

LA

Do you get your admiration/appreciation EN primarily met by work?
I did get most of my admiration and appreciation at work. Then I transferred to a job where I could work from home so we could move back to our hometown, but I'm not so good at this job so the bottom dropped out for me on that.

I also have really good friends here, and spending time with them is awesome, and we all admire and appreciate each other. They are awesome mothers to their kids, and we learn from each other. I'm close with my family, too, but I often felt like I'm "not good enough" when I'm with them, constant judging. I spend a lot less time with them lately because it's just hard.

Where was the hurt coming from before? When you stopped assuming intent and asked for clarification or confirmation when you repeated, did you stop the mindreading/assumption...so the hurt decreased...or did you stop from buying into his beliefs as yours?
Mostly stopped buying into his beliefs as mine, stopped using them as a mirror to see whether I was doing well or poorly. The clarification, though, was big, too, because I often misheard "what wasn't said" and like you pointed out, the meaning I chose was the worst one. Did you ever do that, too? Why did I hear the worst one? Maybe it will get clearer with time.

Oh, yes, YES to picking the worst interpretation of what I heard. I think Jwo or BTE pointed out I still do that with my parents.

See? I don't lie when I say you're not alone! I MEAN it.

I was asking about the admiration/appreciation in your current work from home...accomplishment as admiration/appreciation...because when that is your source and it fails to meet your expectation (not so good?), then you can lean more heavily on other sources to get it...which riles you up because your H or family aren't giving it to the degree you are used to from your work.

We don't think of giving it to ourselves...increasing that dosage when a resource is reduced or removed.

You will get clearer on not mishearing...because you're breaking the habit, the expectation...the communication exercises really helped me with that. Have you approached your H on doing those? Takes only one hour a week, two half-hours, and they can't be within 24 hours of it...my H liked that "dosage"...

LOL

That's when you have to listen for twenty full minutes straight, and then summarize what you heard...which takes more concentration than you can imagine! It's difficult on both ends...speaking that long...and listening that long. No room for trailing off...following any misheards into the desert...like taking a test again...not memorizing, but following your H's train of thought...takes both hands.

You summarize for five minutes and then the last five minutes, he clarifies or confirms. Exercise done!

You're not allowed to respond for 24 hours to anything he said. When we first did them, that was difficult for me...I think it will be easier for you because you are no longer buying into his beliefs...this is where I learned to do that...

After a few weeks, I didn't need to reply 24 hours later...address anything, really...because what he shared was his...and I watched for why I wanted to answer some of it...to console, comfort, redefine him to himself...that mandatory delay really helped me to see my automatic responses...because they couldn't be automatic!

We did ours on Sundays and Thursdays...key is that for one half hour, no distractions...phones turned off, kids away or contained...no tv or radio...just your H's voice.

And then, yours.

Too bad I can't do them with my parents, huh?

LOL!

LA

LA, that sounds interesting, and I'll ask. Been trying not to bring up R talk, but maybe just a little won't hurt <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

So you talk 20 minutes Sunday, and he talks 20 minutes Thursday? Or since you're the one working on communication, he talks 20 both times?

The great part of the communication exercise is that it isn't relationship talk...it is the thoughts of one person...which leads to talking about (to fill 20 darn minutes) about what's on the mind...my DH talks about work, our kids, his feelings...one thought leads to another (see how much attention it takes!)...stuff slips out.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Nope, we alternate...him on Sunday, me on Thursday.

Lots of subtle benefits...have to stick to it...can't "forget"...very hard at first...yet we both gained satisfaction in continuing to do it...hey, my DH is a passive-aggressive...and he does it. He has built up his own self-esteem doing it.

Because I listen and summarize, he feels like he's interesting...and so do I...too many side benefits...

Best approach? Well, I used this one...my truth.

"I've heard twice in five years I'm not a good communicator. I'm bothered by that, DH. It was like my one safe trait I knew I had. Can you help me with this?"

(I was devastated when two different bosses told me this.)

DH went first.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

LA

LA - I LOVE that! And since hubby has been told he can "talk a river upstream" by his co workers (and many others!) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> he will love it too!

Great Idea. I haven't had chance to get any of the books, etc., but this is one I am going to employ toot sweet.

Your so good! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

J

Yep, you hit the nail on the head. That's when I finally found MB, because I wasn't getting "propped up" at work or at home. I've always had a deep sense of not being "good enough," hearing the worst sense of what was said, judging myself, marrying a man with a low opinion of me. You gave me a lightbulb moment, I don't EVER have to feel that way again. Along with jwoman's metaphor of the baby BTE in the hospital, with God smiling on her.

LA, I know it's principles above personalities, and I am being careful not to forget that, I truly learn from every person here, but the things you share here with me make such a difference. And the puzzling thing is that many of these things I have heard in different forms, but I wasn't ready to hear them.

Thank you.

We're doing a long drive this weekend, highway driving, is that a good time for the communication exercise or is that too much of a distraction?

Thanks, J...even if you did define me as good.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

LOL

EO...I believe driving is the best time...but the experts don't. True. See, my H and I love to go places...love the drive...so we did them going up to the mountains...helped us to look ahead, not directly at each other...we were such assumption miners that every expression, body movement--all fed into our miscommunication. So, this worked really well.

I recommend whoever is driving does the talking, though. I can't emphasize enough how listening is quite challenging.

Could just be me...and I had a great memory...which came from the years of abuse...YearsofHurt has a sigline that says an honest person doesn't need a good memory...guess he wasn't subject to years of "forgetting" and rewriting, huh?

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I think your time has really come, EO...like many here, we've been on simmer with these things...that come in, we almost get, and we cover over, out of fear. I think you're finding that you've been living with fear, reacting to it, and now that it is your own, not so controlling of you.

What do you think?

Until humans see those three realities, Freedom, Responsibility and Love...then live doesn't make sense without living in the false reality of fear, does it?

You are really getting the fear part out of your way and feeling that surge of relief...the freedom part. I did, too. My own carrot...a real one instead of a thousand fake carrots...

Hey, MB is a great source of admiration/appreciation for me...and most of it, I feed myself. Ayup...one sentence a day resonates with me...that I write...and I take in all the generosity and loving intent from the posts...anchoring myself firmly to the human fold. We are all whole, EO...and that we includes you! There's some great rejoicing in that, isn't there?

LA

Well, LA, after the drive I can let you know better how my memory is.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Exactly. I always was trying to do my best, yet felt so inadequate, I feel so free of that today. I look forward to practicing this weekend! I think the DJs are going to just dissove, they really have for the most part so far. Much easier to accept them, question their truth, and let them go Instead fight them back down, that is the real differece.

I've learned by now, if I don't get it, just read it again in the morning, and if I still don't get it, I'll ask <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Exactly - just like ALanon did with the drinking - took a huge burden and made it one I could let fall, not mine to carry anymore.

Great rejoicing! I love it here, too, people full of the viewpoints I want to have, I'd name names, but I won't for fear I'll leave someone out.

In your marriage vows did u have the lines "for better or worse"...your decision

Ouch! That's why I'm here, trying to BUILD my marriage.