I was a little down in the dumps late yesterday, and needed a nap, so H took them. Which he's complaining about, but it was his choice. This is part of what's frustrating to me, that I do okay until until it's time for H to come home, and then I get really down some days. Fortunately not most days.

We had fun today, though. One brother does Christian rap, and I took the kids tonight to a revival with him and other musicians performing. It's for young people, mostly kids there. It really made an impression on all of us <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> H didn't come, it isn't his thing, but he was happy about us going.


Yes, that's exactly my aim, to let go of the outcome.


I'll think on that some more, but from here it kind of looks the same to me. What's that saying? "Same cr*p different day" But I'm working hard to create a different outcome <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

That's a great question, but I don't think it's hindering me in what I need to do. Just gave me some tough questions when I was already at a low point. I think though even if my answers don't sound right to her, that she knows I'm trying. She called today to see how I'm doing, too <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


Wow, great point, I hadn't seen that, thanks for pointing it out. I am working making a life I'm happy with, AND I wish for a special someone to share it with. Is that closer?


That's awesome that you all got that figured out!

We have discussed this at length over the years, though, and he has never responded similar, it was more all about how I don't understand how much his work needs him.


Hope you have a marvelous weekend, too, Happy!

Hugs, ears

Tonight was a bear! I took the kids shopping for school uniforms and shoes, we got home shortly after H at 6pm. Usually he's home much later, but he got home earlier than we did, and he was angry about the dishes in the sink, the kids hadn't cleaned their rooms, and we hadn't made more headway on D10's monologue for her audition tape next week.

I'm trying to deal better with him laying into me, and I told him that it was disrespectful how he was talking to me. He said I am disrepecting him by not doing these things he asks. I listened and repeated as best as I could, that he feels disrespected, but I am not being disrespectful to him, this is not my intent, and I'm not going to stay in a conversation where I'm being spoken to this way. He said on our Monday MC appointment he's going to tell him about all this, which is great, I think this is the kind of thing we need to talk about. The whole night was ruined, I'm glad that we had plans to go elsewhere.

In the back of my mind, I was thinking I should follow H to see where he was going, but I didn't want to not show up for my brother's performance, so I didn't follow H.

(((eo)))

Would it be disrespectful for you to suggest to him that if DD10's monologue is so importan to him that he work on it with her? I am sure it is important to you also, however, he seems to bring it up quite often, maybe he can set time aside with her to work on it.

I did suggest that he work with her this weekend. He responded, oh, now I'm making him do it. I told him, no, I'm not making him, it's his choice. He doesn't agree, but things have calmed down this morning. I asked a friend to babysit tonight, I'm hoping a date night will do us some good.

Hi EO,

This is just a quick fly-by post -- I'm WAY behind on some school work and need to focus on that -- but I wanted to ask you if you saw LA's post yesterday on the P/A thread in the In Recovery board? (it's about how she responded when her H broke a promise to her). I thought you might like to read it.

Big hugs to you today!!
HTBH

I'm popping in from page 18...accidentally went there and began this reply...

Small details...

What if that's another signal to us being more in our child than our adult perspective? I ask this because I hadn't considered it before...in regards to my focus, my resentment...

Just the way you put it popped that thought into my head. When I was a kid, the details were all I had...not the big picture...I was putting pieces of a puzzle together without a clue as to what the big picture was...didn't have the skills or the experience to know...only right now...sun was out, I could play...sun wasn't, I was stuck...mother smiled, I was good...mother yelled, well I wasn't...DH wants to go look at paint at Lowe's...I don't...I say, "Pull my tooth." He laughs. I'm embarrassed...detail...what does it mean, am I defective?

::

All linked to each other, maybe. Taking one detail and seeing portent, something bigger...worrying and leaping into the future...details suck. Don't sweat the small stuff...
-----------------
Then I realized where I was as I read about Disneyland again.

I wanted to throw this out for your consideration, anyway.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Back to the present, which I nag on so adamantly...

EO? Your DH can say he feels you're making him...and you can know you cannot make him. Listen and repeat. Not refute. You can look at him quizzically if he confirms. Then go to clarify, "Okay, so when you told me to prep her, you were making me?"

No tone, just quizzical...it is puzzling, isn't it?

This is a core issue in your marriage...was certainly in mine...and a lot of "Good to know" phrases came out of my mouth, first as my safe response, later, sincerely...because his POV is important...doesn't change mine...we can agree to disagree...knowing what is ours made the difference.

How was date night?

LA

Happy, I'm quiet because I'm getting caught up, a lot of iformation there on the PA thread. I am learning especially from the different POVs.

Yes, LA, thanks for pointing this out, the details feel so large, but I need to back up and look at it in the big picture.


I keep struggling with this. Even this morning, I was open with him, another subject, and I said, I'm really struggling. I know that the biggest thing I can learn to do right now is to really listen to you, to understand you. Yet inside, I want to tell you MY truth. I wish I could remember what it was, because sometime it's him defining me or my actions, which I am supposed to point out to him in the moment, right? And sometimes, it's evasiveness or dishonesty, and I think I am supposed to point that out, too. And other times, it is simply differenig perspectives, and that is when I need to listen, understand, repeat. In the moment, they can all feel the same. I get quiet to think it through, then he speeds forward in the conversation. How about asking him to stop for a moment to allow me to process?


Awesome. It was pulling teeth ahead of time, I told him if he's not enthusiatic, so tell me. He told me he wanted to catch up with the kids, he hasn't spent a Friday or Saturday together with D10 in a few weeks. (She was out of twon, then he was. I told him how about we try to find and agreement we're both good with, how about Sunday night?

Once we got out though, it was great. We went country line dancing!

Pat yourself on the back for POJAing and not allowing his resistance to influence your enthusiasm for date night.

That part of "showing up" for life is really important...you did that exceedingly well!!!

Big kudo, EO...this is very difficult to do...allowing emotions from one thing influence another thing.

As for saying, "Hold up, wait a minute, I'm gonna get to my thought in a minute" (sorry, that's a ring one of my kid's friends had on their cell phone)...go for it. You can call time out any time, respectfully and with ownership.

Sounds like you're sorting thoughts and reactions in your head...now that's a juggle!

LA

Thanks, I am patting myself. I hope I didn't give the wrong impression, we did wind up going out Saturday night, because I had already lined up a neighbor to watch the kids, and we did family night last night.

I'm going to give time out a try, to make it easier to listen and repeat <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

A positive development in MC today, the MC discussed using positive reinforcement instead of negative consequences. Before H left for work, he said, now you're going to work with D10 on her monologue so there won't be any arguing tonight, right? And I responded, "I don't work from negative consequences, only positive ones. I look forward to your positive reaction to D10 when she shows you how great she's done today." And she did, she did great, got it all down, and she's really happy with the progress she made <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

An update, I did well on my interview Monday and have interview 5 with the company I want to work for. I think it's so cool that this dragged out so long and looks like it will wrap up next week when my kids go back to school. How fortunate was that?

Giving myself permission to slow down has made all the difference for me with the listen and repeat. And when I forget, I go back to the room, and say, "I take that back, what I want to say is..." Better late than never. Today I really feel like I can do this.

My question, it seems like the top EN is the one that isn't being met. For example, SF feels like a top need, and DS at the bottom, but that may be more due to my current frustrations. What I am thinking is that as I get to know myself better, my top 5 will more accurately reflect me. So it seems like maybe that is why it seems harder to meet our spouses' top 5 at first, because it is the things we are the least good at. Does that make sense?

In Alanon I've been working on step 3, where you decide to hand it all over to Higher Power. You know I've been struggling with that for a while, so it's great to get more resources and thinking on that. I look at it like the MB thoughtful request concept, I've been giving it a try, to see if I can keep going, and you know what, I think I can <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I haven't been keeping up with the reading in the books, but I have been following AmIOk's thread and the PA thread. Oh my goodness, what a lot of great perspective there, I feel it spilling out into my life, too <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> When I get back to reading, it'll be Boundaries in Marriage, can't wait to jump back into that discussion.

Good luck with the next interview EO! So awesome that going back to work is aligning with the kids going back to school for the summer. Did you enjoy your summer with them? IT seems to me, the older they get, the quicker summer goes by. I registered the girls today for school, they start Monday. I will have an empty house during the day. Time for me to find work. While studying to take the MAT to get into a Masters Program.



I think I understand what you are saying. To me, it always seems, that something is super important to us if we aren't getting it. For instance, Financial Security isn't very important to me, more than likely because it is being met on a continuous basis. However, I guarantee if my dh came home tomorrow and told me he quit his job, FS would jump way up there on my scale of importance. Just like SF probably doesn't seem that high of a need for most men when it is occuring on a regular basis, but, if it stops for awhile, it goes back on the radar. That's why I think it's a good idea to reevaluate the ENQ every couple of months. Let's you see where one another is. Ok, that was a lot, hopefully it's what you were talking about. If not, sorry lol.



Just being a baby Christian, I really struggle with this. I hear so many people who seem to always be calm and collected say they turned it over to God. I'm thinking to myself, but God doesn't pay the bills. Yet, they say He will make sure they are paid. I don't know how to have that much faith in anyone or anything. I am trying though.

EO, I admire your dedication and tenacity to keep trying at your marriage. It's awesome watching you grow as a person. Thanks for sharing.

BTE, great to hear from you! I loved being with the kids for the summer, it was my first summer home with them in years. It was so funny, I saw a want ad in Monster.com that made me think of you this morning, a Criminal Justice instructor in Fort Lauderdale at a vocational college. It required a Bachelor's, with a Master's preferred. I am thinking, if you teach even 1 class, that you'd get free tuition for the Master's, right?

Thanks for the input on ENs, that's what I was trying to get at.

From what I hear, that's all it takes, a step out in faith. Like LA said, too, I think it ties into our faith in ourselves, as well, that we can take whatever comes and make an awesome life from it. We'll just keep taking those babysteps out in faith.

Thanks for the kind words!

Hey you guys!

I'm finally done with school (for now anyway)! I've missed you the last week or so. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

EO, I love what you said about positive reinforcements vs punishment. I have taken so many psychology classes over the years (including the one I just finished last night), and they all say that positive reinforcement is more effective than punishment. So why am I thinking punishment will work with my H?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Thank you so much for reminding me of that!

And congrats on the interview! Sounds like things are working out well there.

hugs, HTBH

I forgot who it was, I'm thinking maybe BTE or LA, I read yesterday cautioned us to be careful of our self-talk, too, we want to watch out for punishing thoughts there, too <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Absolutely! I'm not so good at using positive reinforcement on myself, but I'm getting there! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I've been lining up friends to watch the kids this week and last week, and H said he feels like I'm imposing on them, to watch our kids for free. I disagree, because everyone is free to send their kids over, the kids and I like when they visit. But that's okay that we disagree on that. He asked me to find a teenager to pay instead, and I'm fine with that, we've done that before but just didn't know any right now.

We got the monthly neighborhood newsletter yesterday, and guess what, there was an article where a neighbor talked about her two kids ready to babysit. I called her, and her daughter is interested, asked about when, and I said, how about every Friday or Saturday evening? I talked to H, and he said, no, every week is too much, how about twice a month?

We've done twice a month in the past, but really, given H's work schedule with so many late nights, I'm not okay with twice a month. Half the time H keeps the kids up after I got them ready for bed, and the other half, he lets them stay in bed, and chooses to watch TV even after I've asked if we can do something else. So we get 0 UA time outside our date nights. He refused to continue the conversation exercise.

I can accept that's where we're at today. Likely I am still getting too bogged down in the details, like LA says, looking at each event like it's a crystal ball, a portent of the future. When I catch him at a good moment, he will take a 5 minute walk around the block with me while the kids are home.

So I'm still feeling frustrated, and that happens when? When I am putting someone else's value above my own. Accepting the belief that because he doesn't want to spend time with me, it's because I'm no fun to spend time with. I can choose otherwise, to have fun spending time with myself even when H doesn't wish to. I can do this <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

What a lucky coincidence that you have a new baby-sitter in the neighborhood! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Did you ask H why he thinks once a week is too much? Unless he specifically said it was because he didn't want to spend time with you (and maybe he did, that's why I'm asking!), isn't a DJ to assume you know why?

TIME TO POJA!!!

Twice a month, not enough...four times a month, too many...however...what is his perception of date night, hmmm?

Could it be a walk around a lake eating hot dogs on a Tuesday night one week...or playing pinball for an hour on a Thursday? If this happened each week, and your date nights, twice a month...you'd get six dates in your mind, and he'd get two heavily R-laden, romantic-male-required a month...(that was me making stuff up--could you tell?)...

Archery, a trip to the record store where he shows you every album he owned 20 years ago...and you show him the ones you did (okay, CD's were coming out...whatever form)...

Or a trip to a park to sit on the swings while you share something you've never shared with him from childhood...or forgotten if you had.

Bowling, batting cages...get that RC inventory out and go nuts...doesn't have to be dinner...play, play, and PLAY together...

Definitely POJA this...healthy boundaries for you both...go nuts...

Bargain...no 1/2 hour twice-a-week communication exercises? Then you want two 1/2 hour weekday dates and one three hour weekend date....negotiate up and down the line...air hockey, Chuck-E-Cheese....how about paint-ball?

First, check your DJ at the door...that he doesn't want to spend time with you...he may fear it, crave it...and run from it...he may feel inadequate, a failure...you don't know...only know what you know for real. Ask. Share. Be.

A reminder.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

(((EO)))

LA

Thanks, guys, that was my assumption that he doesn't want to spend with me. I asked some more questions, and he said his time with the kids is so limited, that he'd hate to take an evening away each week. I told him that I understand that it is hard missing the kids, I know that feeling, and if we keep brainstorming I think we'll find a solution we'll all be happy with. I asked a few more questions, and he said that he felt like I was interrogating him, so I drew back (not withdrew) into an 180 and am giving him some space. I can try again another time.

The kids reinforce this, when I tell them we're going on a date, they used to get all indignant, why can't they go, too? It'll be more fun with them, they say. I tell them that we're planning something fun with them, too, and follow through on that. Last week they were happy letting us go because they were at my friend's house with a new baby.

Okay, I'll bite...why did you act from his perception you were interrogating him?

You knew you weren't...or were you?

Were you trying to get him to give some alternative solution suggestions?

Have you stated why this is important to the marriage and set a time when you both can come back to it? Each time you decide to try again later, put a deadline on later...two days, four days. For you. To get back to it.

Kids don't really reinforce...they are kids...they want to go along for fun and not be bored by exclusion. Are you maybe doing with your kids what you did with your H? Measuring if you're making them happy or not?

You can be ditched for a cardboard box and some string...whatever catches their attention...and you know this...

How do you teach them boundaries if you don't have any?

Stating why this is important: "I see our intact marriage as the single, most influential and important gift for our children. Maintaining the marriage is essential for our family. Taking a night each week to reconnect with each other, remember why we fell in love and to share ourselves is important to our marriage. It does not take away from our children--it adds to their lives. That's what I believe."

Meanwhile, I'm lost, EO...just plugged right along and hit the proverbial dead end at a single turn. What do I know?

LA