I knoew I wasn't interrogating him, I think often that we start out with unspoken assumptions, and if we understand where each is coming from better, then we can see where the enthusiastic alternative is.

I was acting from his request to end the conversation. That is a great idea, to set a day for myself to get back to it. I was thinking tonight, during date night, but my friend has a health problem and can't watch the kids tonight anymore. I'll take a walk with him and ask him.

No but I will ask him, that is a great idea.

No, I'm trying to understand why H feels like he's letting the kids down if we make a date night.

Absolutely I have become clearer with the kids on my boundaries.

Thanks for putting it so well! I look forward to when I get to that point, too, and I do feel like I'll get there.

Lost in the car? I'm not sure what you mean?

I'm so frustrated! I don't know what else to do than to keep chasing my tail like this. I got another email response from the software company in SoCal that H had submitted my resume to without checking with me first. I showed it to H, and he asked what is my response, and I said, there are positive things I see in our marriage, I see the things you're doing, like not yelling, and going out on date nights. But to be honest I still am not feeling enthusiastic about moving to SoCal, and I think it's best to reply to the company that I am not interested in relocating at this point. They don't have local offices to my knowledge, but I could inquire about it, anyway.

He says that his coworkers all say that I should at least interview, even if I'm not willing to move there. I did that a few years back with a job in DC, and was given an offer, and I had to turn it down because after seeing DC, I saw I didn't want to live there, either, and the bigger factor was that the position was much more stressful than I personally can handle with two kids. It was a huge knife to the heart to him when I turned that company down. I don't want to go along with some farce interview process on the chance that I won't make it through, and end in the same result.

So this morning, at least he's not yelling, and he didn't bring my FOO mess into it, but he's asking me, what do I think I'm going to find a better guy out there? And then names some guys we know that he knows I dislike. It kills me to see him in this pain and to know he's looking to me to fix it and I just can't. I didn't know what to repeat, I should have taken a moment and said, "I hear you that I am better off with you than with these other guys." Instead, I said, "look, I'm not looking to end our marriage. I do believe that we can be happy together. I am not forcing you to stay, but I am not going to be the one that drags us out there. I have already done that." I didn't cry or raise my voice.

After he left, I am feeling indignant that he feels that it's justified to disolve the marriage and blame me for it if I don't move, and sorrow that he chooses to view things this way, that the only way he will be happy is to move. I'm frustrated that I let things get this far, to let this man think that he can control me by making me frustrated enough. Wow, that was a DJ, sorry, I will try to rethink that one. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

First thing, I need to stop chasing my tail! LA, I'm going to take your advice and stop looking at this daily stuff as a predictor of the future. Disagreeing this morning doesn't at all mean it's time to rethink my course. I'll keep plodding along. I'm so glad to have this place to come to!

(((EO)))

I hear that you are frustrated! (I want to say, "I'm so sorry you're frustrated" out of habit, but I'm trying to break that habit, and I don't know what to say instead! I'm still looking for the right phrase. Anyway, I'm thinking of you!!)

When he asked you about how you were going to respond to the company in CA, why didn't you just say that you aren't enthusiastic about moving and therefore don't want to pursue an interview unless they have a local office? I'm just wondering why you brought up all the other things, rather than simply saying that you're still not enthusiastic about moving now (which he already knows, right? so no need to tell him all over again)

Why did he ask you about finding a better guy? It DOES sound like he's in pain. I don't think he was saying that you're better off with him so much as wanting YOU to tell HIM that you are, if that makes sense. Although of course it's a DJ to speculate; I just wanted to throw out the possibility that he's coming from a different place than you first thought (ie, insecurity v.s. arrogance). Maybe that's something you could ask him about later?



Did he say that this morning?



He has said this, hasn't he? (Sounds familiar to me, anyway, so I thought he might have said this before.)



Wow, that IS a DJ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Maybe YOU think you have allowed him to control you by getting so frustrated with him that you just give in?



<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Personally, I think disagreeing is a good sign! It means you are both being honest with each other, right? Which is wonderful.

Hugs,
HTBH

Happy, thanks for being here, and thanks for the hugs! I was reminded of the serenity prayer this morning, and can I change this? No. My guilt and chasing my tail comes from part of me thinking that a dutiful wife "should" support her husband's dreams, and I'm falling short. Like w8ing was advised here when her H wanted to do car racing. But my reality is that I haven't found a way to move without being resentful yet, so I don't need to beat myself up, I can just consider other ideas as they come along.

H is trying to POJA. He offered that I could stay home, and even have another baby, which at one point I really wanted, if we move. Ok, I still wish I could have another, but I wouldn't do that to a kid again, bring it into an unstable situation.

I brought up the positive things because at one point I'd said if things had really changed for the better between us, then I could see myself going. I'm still struggling with wanting to do the right thing by him. I see though that it's unfair to swirl all around about this, and much kinder to be consistent unless a time comes when I know I could be enthusiastic about a move.

I will ask him. He's said something similar a while back, that I should be happy with him because he's a lot better than anything else I'm going to find. But when I was thinking of leaving, I was thinking that being alone would be better than this, not that I'd look for a better man to love me more. Sorry, I digress. Yes, I can reassure him that he's the man I want to be with.

He has said this morning and almost daily, I'm moving next summer. Your choice whether you come with the kids or not. But if you don't come, I'll come back, to be close to the kids, but it's over between us. Your choice.

Yes, he's said this before, when I've asked, how could you be enthusiastic about staying here?

Absolutely, I have given my power away many times because I had enough of taking the heat. I'm still not used to it.

Thanks, Happy <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I'm going to look at this as progress, too.

Oy vey <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> H called from work, and we talked about this stuff from this morning. He was calm in tone because he was at work, which was good because I had no problem with listen and repeat. Validating that I understood that his feelings were valid ones to have. He asked if indeed I'm not planning to move to SoCal next summer, and I said no, I don't think so. Not based on how have have felt about this for some time now.

He spoke very calmly, and repeated that this is just a two year commitment he is asking, that if I don't wish to stay there, we won't stay past that. That since I am not able to go along with this, why wait until next summer, we might as well end it now.

He asked me if I am going to make the divorce difficult, and I said, you are the man that I want to be with. I believe that we can be happy together. It felt comforting to myself to feel those words come out, that it was true, honest. Funny, because it's taken me some time to feel that way!

Again he asked if I was going to make it difficult, and I said I will drag my feet as long as possible, I don't wish to divorce. He said what difference does that make if he moves out, it's not like he's looking to remarry right away, and I said, it will make a difference to me.

I wouldn't call what he's doing bluffing, I think it is a big blow when we come to accept something difficult. But I don't think at this point that he would follow through and move out. Perhaps move to the family room, and I could work with that.

I feel pretty calm, because he said this a few weeks ago and didn't follow through. And I had said the same thing a few months ago and likewise decided to keep going. If I'm wrong, I'm thinking it would be time to call the Harleys, right?

Oh goodness!

(((EO)))

Sounds like you handled the call well. Good for you!

So glad to hear that you are feeling calm!

Have you talked to your regular MC about all this? Might not be a bad idea to call the Harleys, too, if you're wanting some extra support.

I think you're doing a great job, though, by listening to him, communicating your needs respectfully, and maintaining your boundaries.

Hang in there!!
HTBH

By the way, I was working on a long reply to your other post when I saw the new post about your H's phone call, and I lost my long reply.. There were a few things I wanted to mention, let me see if I can remember them!



I understand your belief that you should support him, definitely. I think it's also important to support YOUR dreams, too! On Mrs. W8ing's thread, she was advised to think of ways she could be enthusiastic about the race car thing, not just to go along with it no matter what. YOUR needs and dreams are just as important as HIS.



OK, he really is saying this to you! That doesn't mean that YOU are to blame for breaking up the marriage. HE is the one choosing to leave his family (if indeed he does). You do not have to take ownership of his choice, even if he is trying to give it to you!

Hugs, HTBH

I brought it up in MC the last time that H had said he was leaving, it was about the last email that I got from this company in SoCal. It was kind of glossed over, and I didnt pick it up because we ran out of time in the session. Kind of backwards, huh? I didn't realize that this was something I'd hear again. I think calling the Harleys would really help me get H with the program, instead of thinking outside the marriage. I think if I didn't have you all helping me, that I'd have given up in frustration by now, too.

Thanks for helping me fit that into my perspective, so does this fall into equal and separate?

You are right, I don't need to be indignant over his decisions. He just emailed me asking for the battery number for his laptop because batteries were being recalled. I had to call him and ask him if I am living in the Twilight Zone? I just keep thinking,

Just for today
I can do for six hours
what would be abhorrent to me to keep up for a lifetime.

Just six hours until bedtime, I can do this!

That's funny, I just saw the thing about the laptop batteries on another website, and I need to check mine when I get home..

Why are you in the Twilight Zone? And what did he say when you called to ask him that? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />



The Harleys will help you get H's act together? Is that what you're saying? Or did I misread you?


I think so. Your dreams are not necessarily the same as his, so that covers separate, and I definitely think yours are equal to his (and his equal to yours, of course). He may be adamant about following his dreams, but don't forget that you have dreams, too!

What do you have to do in the next six hours that is abhorrent??

Have you done anything nice for yourself today? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hugs, HTBH

"I'm leaving you. And oh, by the way, what are the numbers on my laptop battery?" Ack! To me that's pretty Twilight Zone, when something happens that is so unexpected given the last thing that happened.

When I asked him, in a lighthearted tone, he said, oh, yeah, well, we DO have to talk about that.

I said that wrong about the Harleys, it would be more accurate to say that they could give H a plan and help provide him the motivation to stick with it. I don't mean get his act together. I mean explain that things can get better, that it is worth the effort, and here is how to do that. I could be totally wrong, but I do think it's possible.

What do I have to do for 6 hours that is abhorrent? Spend an evening as a family pretending to the kids that H didn't just tell me he's leaving me. I'd much rather go to bed <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> and hope there's some better news tomorrow. I started back on the AD's when I got them in the mail Friday, and I'm hoping that they kick in soon.

No, I haven't done anything nice for me today. Maybe go to the gym after dinner.

I figured that's what you meant by Twilight Zone, just wanted to be sure! But what DID you expect from him, given that earlier conversation?

I think the Harleys could be great for you guys, too, if your H is willing to talk with them. And even if he's not, I think it could also be good for you to talk to them yourself.



Why can't you spend an evening as a family with the kids without faking or pretending anything? Why are you trying to put on a facade for your kids?

Besides, he didn't just tell you he was leaving you, did he? There's a big difference between him saying that he thinks you might as well split up and him saying that he is going to leave now, isn't there? You heard his truth and acknowledged it, but that doesn't mean you know what he is going to do.

I think you should do something nice for you! Maybe the gym counts, I don't know. (For me, the gym is a necessary evil!). I was thinking more like taking a long bath, sitting down with a cup of tea, maybe coloring a picture with your kids -- something nice and relaxing that helps you feel good. And I think you should do it NOW. Don't put yourself last! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hugs,
HTBH

I'm less okay as it's closer to time for H to come home. I'm nervous that he's going to retaliate once he's out of the office. But I know I'll be able to handle whatever happens. Unless the battery on the laptop blows up LOL

Something nice, I'll have a cup of tea, and hopefully I can relax enough to enjoy it. Thanks for the gentle reminder <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hang in there! Maybe a brisk walk with the kids would help, since you're feeling anxious. Sitting down with tea might just make it worse! I definitely think you need to find something that will help soothe your nerves, though!

What is there for him to retaliate for? Are you genuinely concerned for your safety? Do you have a back up plan, just in case?

Take care of you!

(((EO)))

Happy, I'm so glad you're here. Actually, I was putting up some of the kids' photos, and that is calming me. I don't think fear for physical safety is the right word, but I do have a back up plan, a friend has offered that the girls and I can come to stay if it ever came to that.

I told the kids that their Dad and I were arguing today, and I want them to keep their shoes on tonight, so that we can get in the car and go for a drive if we don't feel good. I don't think it would come to that, but I do feel better knowing I have a plan. On second thought, I think it would have been better to just put a bag including shoes in the car, so I wouldn't have to say anything to the kids.

What would he retaliate for? Not going forward with the position in SoCal. That's how we got into the last tiff.

(((eo)))

If the girls tell their Dad, which they might, that you told them to keep their shoes on tonight, how will that play out?

Your patience and growth just amazes me, not that I didn't think you could do it, but it gives me something to strive towards.

I'm, um, happy to be here. LOL. No really, I'm glad to be here too. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Glad you're feeling calmer!

I think it's good you mentioned to the kids that you are making plans in advance, just in case, so that they can learn from your example. Have you asked them to let you know if THEY don't feel good and want to go for a drive?

So you are worried that he's going to be angry about the SoCal job when he gets home, right? Are you ready to enforce your boundaries right away, so that you don't get into a tiff if he does retaliate in some way? Are you prepared for the possibility of him coming home and NOT being mad (hey, it could happen!)?

You can do it! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

H called on the way home, and I told him that I'm really frustrated with feeling this level of anxiety because of my fear of not knowing what to expect. I know that these are my own feelings, and I'm not blaming him for me having them. But I said that if there is ANY agression, chair-throwing, whatever, that's it, I'm done. To me, that is my progressive boundary enforcement, I can't live with getting nervous every time I do something that he disagrees with. I need to create a life for myself where I'm not nervous to disagree like this. Preferably at home, you know? This was really big for me to realize I have lowered what I'm willing to tolerate, and that's okay, doesn't make me evil or bad, just more honest.

He handed it back to me and said, he's not standing for any coffee-throwing. I said yes, that's what I mean, things like throwing coffee, I'm sorry, and then he apologized for the chair-throwing, which he'd never apologized for before.


I was prepared to enforce boundaries right away, especially because I failed last time when it came to protecting the kids. But when he got home, it was suprisingly... normal. There was no silent, steaming anger, no eggshells to walk on. We even took the kids swimming after dinner, and talked like normal. Wow, have I had the power all this time to refuse to be treated that way?

About my kids, I was pretty calm with them, so I think that part of the example was good. I look forward tomorrow to showing them an example of a loving mother preparing dinner in peace, but I worked with what I had today, that's okay. I had asked them if they felt uncomfortable, to let me know. I also talked to D10, that if she ever didn't feel comfortable talking to me, like for example if I'm the problem or if she feels like I'm not listening to her, that she could talk to another adult that she trusts, like her teacher. Trying to empower her to protect herself, as well.

WOW!! Good for you! How wonderful!

I think you set a fabulous example for your kids all the way around.

Well done!

How do you feel?

(((EO)))

EO,

I've been having my own crud for a week now...had to sit with sorrow and pain...that was my being lost statement. I wanted to post about it...couldn't figure out where, how or why...so I didn't...now I'm through it, mostly, and took some proactive steps and a few very old, backward ones. Thank you for asking about not understanding those two sentences in my post. I could not be O&H and still can't, yet.

Enough about me...I'm in HTBH and BTE's camp...you are acting, not reacting externally, and this is given a high-level of stress...not minor, IMO.

Way to go! I think we've gone over the whole moving thing before...how it represents a much bigger issue (like three other things behind it), and that this is your H's Selfish Demand...though you've treated it as a thoughtful request (it isn't).

Do not ignore nor let that one slide by, please. Be O&H and say what you felt when he said you guys should get it over with. Be strong and think about it...get all of those emotional reactions listed. Tell him how much of an LB that was for you, and is, because of him then asking you to not make a divorce difficult. Ohmygosh. Be respectful and tell him..."I hear you saying you do not desire for me to fight a divorce from you. I will. I will fight hard for my marriage, even when I don't feel like fighting hard for you. I believe divorce will be very painful and extremely difficult for us all."

You are, however, reacting internally:

"I'm less okay as it's closer to time for H to come home. I'm nervous that he's going to retaliate once he's out of the office. But I know I'll be able to handle whatever happens. Unless the battery on the laptop blows up LOL"

Fighting your own expectations takes a sharp sword, a willingness to cauterize a wound and that nagging reminder--staying present. You cannot see yourself or others as new if you continually expect repeat behaviors. Part of us fears...and the other part is taught to fear, again and again...which adds to the fear. You are adding to your fear, on top of the reasonable one when you allow yourself to jump into the future. Now, what you did BRILLIANTLY was share your emotional state before he came home...he fears you, too...you told him the lay out of the land by volunteering your stuff ahead of time...that changed the landscape, didn't it?

Not within your control...very nice outcome. Do this MORE. You matter. You're demonstrating you matter.

Letting go the outcome is really difficult...I know this, through and through. Work on it...takes a long time...we've been judged, evaluated and categorized by outcome, achievement, taught that we make stuff happen which we really don't...so this process, choosing from our code rather than from possible outcome or response is very difficult.

And I wanted to share with you and BTE what AmIOK wrote on Rinderella's thread yesterday...about the chart she made for her son, which has changed a lot. I wish I could go back in time and have done this with my boys, especially my YS...ohmygosh...what a marvelous idea!!

HTBH...the gym is a necessary evil? LOL. Guess there's no hot tubs or saunas, eh?

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Great to see you all here and be included. Thank you very much for being who you are and sharing your journies with me.

LA

LA!! I have been wondering where the heck you were! Are you OK? You can post on my thread (or I'm sure EO wouldn't mind sharing hers!) if you want to talk.

Yeah, I hate the gym. LOL. Don't much like hot tubs or saunas, either, so that doesn't help. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> But I love taking walks and stretching, which I can do happily AT HOME. hehe.

Glad to see you!
HTBH