EO,

I got it, I think...try this...

Flip roles...you were the sick one and H was the one choosing to drive your Mom...and you couldn't be left alone...imagine step by step you getting up, having to get in the car, being told Auntie was really sick and Mom needed to get there...and H does this...and you feel...what?

Now, D5 may be well conditioned to this and NOT feel marginalized...she may think this is how the world works...we don't know until years later...it isn't about putting ourselves ahead of others, always...it is having and enforcing boundaries...in a healthy manner.

You said you didn't want your mother to spend an hour on a bus...would that be because YOU wouldn't want to do that? I'm not harping, I'm trying to explore this...where your mother got to this point in her life and how it affects you.

I ask because I remember hitchhiking to the hospital with my six-month-old son...and doing the same to get to Social Services. I remember borrowing cars, taking buses...and knowing all along, I'd done this...gotten myself to here...and how...and I haven't been back!

Now, your Mom isn't 22-years-old and a dippy blonde Valley girl who says "Y'all"...she's a grandmother...and I'm truly wondering if she can't help her environment...what has been done to her, not in her control...makes the best of...and your own dealing with feeling done to, not in your control, and afraid of your life partner...so I'm not putting you down. Her expectations of you, her permissions for what you can and cannot do, I hear lots of shoulds, permissions to feel, think and do...or not...are there. Worth looking at the nuances and hearing them for what they really are.

Because they are affecting your present day adult self.

Like me. Like everyone. And your H has high expectations of you, sounds like your perception...and when you don't meet them, there is punishment...and you're very aware of all this now and working on standing still, not reacting...choosing your actions.

I'm not judging your mother, either...I'm attempting to comprehend what she's passed down to you and how...and that you're passing on to your own girls...because that's we do this...generation after generation. Conscious decisions versus unconscious ones.

And I swear I read the first sentence of your last post as, "Wow, you guys think too much" ROFL...which comes from MY mother.

I believe you wanted that five-minute-away job very much. Do you believe that your H was the reason you didn't get it? Because of what he refused to do...and that's part of your feeling fearful of him? Where will he hurt you next?

"This is the part that is missing. We are not there yet. I don't feel heard enough to trust that I can throw out ideas, and they'll be considered. So I feel hurt, walk away, brainstorm alone, or with someone else like you all, and then go back, and ask if this other alternative is okay. H doesn't brainstorm with me yet. He so far offers other reasons why I should agree with him."

So the O&H drivebys could really help out here..."I hear you offering me reasons why I should agree with you. I don't hear you considering my ideas. I feel afraid of sharing my ideas with you."

Now...you didn't hesitate on the getting the neighbor to watch D5...you worked those suggestions, focusing on his points and working around them...calling it a mutual solution...to get what you want without him having a valid, logical point. Would you say you did that in the moment, given the situation was immediate?

And this isn't me saying, "Nope, that's not true." I honor your perception is true for you. Absolutely. It's like my S17 saying yesterday (he was having a PMS day, but I didn't say that)..."This week is so bad! Everything has gone wrong...and having my two teeth out is just another bad thing." (His two upper canines due to braces.) And I said, "What about all the weeks things don't go wrong?" And he replied, "I don't pay attention to them."

Now, I KNOW you know how to do this, and you do it well...your gratitude lists and awareness. What I'm saying is that I passed onto my kids this eschewed awareness of what was awful, focus on, expand, from fear. What wasn't, well, don't pay attention to it. I did that. He finds this normal. He heard me saying "Well, being aware of your not-bad days would give you a better idea of the real ratio you're facing with them" as criticism, that he's living wrong.

Well, my breathing can do that...lol...still liked me rubbing his teenaged back while we waited for the pharmicist to fill his pain medication prescription.

I'm asking you to be aware when you're experiencing fear or love...and which you really want to live from. I don't trust my DH to hear my ideas and not try to persuade me to his...I do hear myself fear and do it anyway...and let go the results. So I could remove all these conditions, stop using my conscious focus to see where all others' conditions were and try to meet them, but to turn it on just me...sharing, acknowledging, being safe...because I really can't make HIM safe.

Our partners all have the power to hurt us deeply...we see them as our wish fulfillment center, the ones who we weren't born to, but can do a better job taking care of us than anyone else...and they fail us and we fail them, and it falls into power struggles, all from fear and pain.

You be safe, then I'll trust.

You share, then I'll share.

You listen, then I'll listen.

Round and round...wow, I remember.

Have you tried looking past his words to his intent? Asking him his intent? And if his intent is to get you to agree with him, how does your agreeing with him make him feel? What if he said "safe"...same as you...deep desire to be safe...that consistent hum of failure from fear...longing to be safe, relieved...not judged.

What if you both have identical bottomline needs...to be safe, held, known and included? Just those...and very different struggles to get you there? What if you being safe, holding, knowing and including him was the way you both got there...no sacrifice...the one path you thought wouldn't get you all you wanted because it was giving it first.

Would you like to talk more about your belief there are things you can't recover from? I don't hear boundary issues, I hear beliefs that certain things can end all...cause the death of love.

LA

About my mom, I've taken the bus, too, all that, I'm not "too good" for any of that.

But I feel my mom's earned her way up from all that. I sat that ignoring the choices that she's actually made, to share finances with her husband with a gambling problem. I wanted to take her for myself, too, so I don't feel like my mom is stuck like that. I'd like to think she's not.

I don't blame H about that job, for all I know, they may be interested. I'll give them a follow-up call today.

I hear you, it makes sense to tell H I appreciate that we haven't moved yet. And even I hesitate to say that I'm grateful to be here in South Florida because part of me fears that H will be reminded that he feels controlled if I say that.

Because of how I react to his honesty. Hard to trust someone to be safe when I haven't been.

I've been reading about the HEALs method in You Don't Have to Take It Anymore. It's in the "for the abuser" section of the book, and as bad as that word feels, what else do you call it when my lizard feels the H's perspective is destructive? There are four steps:

1. Identify the core hurt. For me, this would be something like, "I'm unlovable; H will never choose to love me."

2. Connect with core value. For example, think of something you do that you feel good about, or are grateful for.

3. Love the other person. For example, understand that likely the other person is acting from the same core hurt.

4. Solve the problem. This step is done together.

This is similar I think to my prayer I was trying, but it is more active in that I'm trying to live in the moment rather than fleeing on the inside to some proteced space.

That flipping roles really helped, helped me connect to the core hurt H was trying to protect D5 from, and that pain from feeling like the person who was supposed to care for his D was instead putting her through the same shuffle that he was as a kid. A picture of Slick's wife saying, "Darn it, cant I even be sick?" came into my head, too.

There have been times in my life that when I were sick, boy, that was the one time I got the focused attention. The one time I got a break from having to walk on the eggshells. That I got to be the sick one. Because in my house, everyone felt like something was wrong, and if someone was sick, then there was a rational reason why for a change. So I see where the anxiety comes from. I get it.

Edited to add: LA, I feel like we misheard each other. I said, I don't doubt that his pain is real. I meant, I understand and validate that his pain is real. I felt like you thought I meant the opposite, that his pain was unreasonable?

I know I have to face that belief I have that there are things I can't recover from. As I grow spiritually, I think that will become easier.

EO,

Wasn't we misheard...I did. I read your sentence, I promise three times...and just now, I scrolled back up and it was as plain as day...I read it to say, "I doubt his pain is real. That it matters."

OHMYGOSH...now, I know the old me and my assumptions...so I was triple checking myself...and I swear, there was not "don't" in there. You're magic.

I'm really sorry. Kinda shaken I blocked that "don't" out. I was stunned, so I really did read and re-read.

Wow.

I had the same experience, btw, with being sick. I loved how you put it, that it felt like the only time without eggshells; and for me, forgiveness...not being a cause or having to cure...however, I now remember feeling guilt for being sick, shame...so I am conflicted. My first mother was sick a lot, off and on, for eight years, due to the leukemia...so I'm sure I got mixed signals.

I really like the HEAL method...especially recognizing that most likely, both of us are wanting to heal from the same core hurt...which makes sense of our tit for tat life...trying to get the other to stop re-injuring us...and that's what really clicked when I read Facing Love Addiction, as well...that both the pursuer/withdrawer shared the same two core fears...of abandonment and intimacy, just flip-flopped.

I didn't think for a second you held the view that the bus was beneath you. My two older sons feel that...LOL...and my youngest uses it as his primary means of transportation. About the bus is the stretched out time delay...that what would take 15 minutes by car, will take one hour by bus.

What I learned as a recovering fixoholic, was to get out of the way of consequences. When I felt like stepping in so someone else wouldn't feel what I projected they would...then I was crossing a boundary which really hurt when others crossed for me. That yearning stuff...for a magic pill, wish fulfillment...which is why I really have to stick to my priorities.

Was there any additional graciousness in your desire to take her? She wasn't stuck...you said so...and she wouldn't hold it against you...you said so...but when she's saying, "Oh, that's allright" there can be a huge jump in being able to fill a need (parallel to fix) when there is no demand in it. Do you hear a lot of demand in H's requests?

And this isn't making this one incident bigger than it was...it really is stepping all the around it, to see it from many sides, to get to the principle, as objectively as possible...and I think, bottomline, it holds some information about what love truly is and what it isn't...how it's been represented to you and you're finding out layers underneath that representation are not what you thought you'd find.

Sometimes, helping others proves to them they are losers. It's true. They continually accept that self-talk for the short-term and not aiding themselves in the long-term. When we face something difficult, something we don't want to be that way, and we don't do it, anyway...with acceptance, acknowledgment and affirmation, then we reinforce the loser-talk, the failure speak...and unbeknownst to others, they think they're helping, when they are indeed, escalating harm.

Getting aware of your "held" symbol, with both hands, might help in identifying these moments...when tough love is true love, and not that tough...respectful love...and when it really is an act of generosity--often, when someone is self-sufficient and must ask for help...rather than the opposite.

I find a feeling of gratitude in those times...and I don't when I overreach...grateful that I was asked...not as admiration, but trust. Maybe that sounds silly, but that's where I feel it. And it's rare. And intimate. Not the same as the incident you experienced, in my own pov.

Or what you often experience with your FOO. Can you hear in your mind how often they lovingly give you permission to feel, think or believe? Can be viewed as humility or modesty...and it isn't. Has a toxic backside to that message. And if your FOO does it, then you almost certainly rely on your partner doing it.

I think I've pinpointed my own strong reactions, EO--they are about you. I have a deep desire for you to be gentle, accepting, loving and generous with yourself...achingly so. Mentally affectionate, maybe. And this is me, not you. You may well be this thoroughly and consistently...but those eggshells are in what I read...by your choice. Take it for what it's worth...I didn't see a key word which totally flipped around your meaning. I did that.

LA

LA, it is easier to say yes to my mom, than to H, because it does feel like my mom is asking, and H is demanding. This will get easier, I think as I'm getting better at sorting that out, like with listen and repeat. There was something you said about someone asking a question, but really there is something else behind it, but I'm not sure what you meant.

"Sometimes, helping others proves to them they are losers."
I know this, how embarassing it may feel to my mom to "have to" call and ask for help. I try to ameliorate it by asking no questions. Which makes it all the harder for H to try to make sense of it, everything he asks me, I haven't asked her, so I have no answers.

I am practicing this HEALs method, and it is helping. The YDHTDIA book suggests practicing 12 times a day for 6 weeks, if I remember corectly. H gives me plenty of real-life practice, so I think I get now what Happy said about our spouses providing us growth opportunities. I look forward to reading the Hendrix book and the Snarch one after this one.

Happy, if you're here, let me ask you, what does your life look like? Do you all get 15 hours of UA time? Do you have hobbies? LA I think you make time together, right? And pleanty of RC?

This weekend I feel like I'm back climbing that staricase. I think I had slipped and was just holding on to the railing for dear life for a bit. That HEALs method is really great, it's a tool I am using to help me with my self-destructive habits, as well. Like the overeating, why do I keep the Halloween candy around and then berate myself for eating it? Like you said, LA, I can see how I can unknowingly set someone up to fail. If today was a weather report day I'd say I feel really PRESENT <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Hi EO! Happy Monday! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

We were out of town this weekend, so I just saw your post. Hm, what is my life like???

It's kind of a hard question to answer, because there is what my life is like RIGHT NOW, which is sort of a temporary thing while I'm not working, and what my life was like 6 weeks ago, when I was still working, and what it was a year ago, when I first got here.

Can I tell you a story, and then answer your question? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

This weekend, H and I went out of town to a team-building type thing for his job. We went on the same trip last year, back when I was so unhappy with him and our marriage (and myself, but boy I didn't know it at the time!). It was so incredible to be in the same place, doing the same thing -- like deja vu, only this time things were so different.

We all went on a hike together, and hiking is sort of hard for me. I have tremendous allergies that I've learned to deal with, but going uphill puts a bit of a strain on the old respiratory system (hey, where I live, everything is flat! I'm not used to hills! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />). So I struggle to make it up the hill and not lag behind too far, but also not to push myself so hard that I hurt myself.

H walks close by me, keeping an eye on me. If I get too far behind, he'll stop and wait for me to catch up. If we have to scramble over a rock or branch, he'll make sure I can get over it OK, sometimes offering me his hand.

Last year, I was so frustrated with myself for struggling up that hill, I felt like this was something that should come easier to me and I was annoyed that it was so hard. Whenever H turned and looked for me, or offered to help me, I felt patronized, like HE thought I wasn't capable of doing it on my own.

This year, I started out frustrated again (I truly couldn't believe how quickly I got out of breath! I DO exercise!!). And I started watching everyone else, telling myself how easy it was to them, and how out of shape I must be in comparison. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> And then I told that voice to shut up. LOL. I was doing my best, I was keeping up with the group, I was doing fine.

And you know what? Whenenver H turned around to look for me, I was so grateful that he was there. I was glad he was there to offer me a hand. It seemed like his way of saying, "I know this is hard for you, and I think you're doing great."

And you know what else? HE didn't change from last year -- it was ME. He did the exact same things I hated a year ago -- and this year, I loved him for it. LOL. It was about ME and how I was feeling, not about HIM or what he was doing.

He did tell me later that he was proud of me for making it up that hill. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

EO, back to your question:
Sometimes we do get 15 hours of UA time. Although we don't schedule it and I don't write it down, so I'm not actually sure how much time we get. I do think we could use more quality time (I definitely don't consider watching TV to be UA time, altho it can sometimes count as RC, I guess.. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />).

It was a lot harder when I was working, because we both came home exhausted, and we had all this stuff to do around the house. I was working on the FlyLady thing but didn't quite get the hang of it, so I'd stay up too late trying to finish "one more thing", and then we'd do our weekly cleaning on Saturday mornings, so some of our time off was spent in chores, not together.

Now, I do my best to get everything done while he's at work, so I've started buying groceries (which he used to do), and I've taken over all the housekeeping chores, so when he gets home, dinner is cooking, and there aren't any chores at all to do except clean up after dinner. And Saturday morning is free for whatever we want to do. He works so hard, and he said once that he lives for the evenings and weekends when he can come home to me, so I try to make it as nice as possible for him. (Yeah, I know, sounds a little like Donna Reed around here, right? LOL).

When I start working again, things'll go back to more of what they were before -- I'll need more help from him again. But I'd like to keep as much free time for us as we can, so we'll have to figure out the best way for us to work things out.

We have a couple hobbies. We didn't really, up until last year. We started going bird watching, which was my idea but turns out he likes it more than I do, so we don't do it all the time. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> He also loves football, which I have hated my entire life (although I've watched a lot of it, growing up in Texas!), and this year I've relented and started watching some of the games with him. I'll discuss the plays and holler at the TV with him, and he loves it. He keeps looking surprised that I understand the rules. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

He also watches Dancing with the Stars with me, so I guess we're even. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Plus he watched the basketball playoffs with me this summer, which was fun because I got to explain the game to him for once.

We've also started traveling a little together, which has turned out to be really fun. Our trips tend to revolve around bird watching, dining out, and wineries. LOL. Strange combination, but it works!

So we are having more fun together than we used to, and it is great. The thing I really miss, though, is those long conversations we used to have back when we were wooing, to borrow LA's word. We haven't quite gotten that back, although every now and then we'll have a moment. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I know a lot of the problem here is me again, because I've gotten so guarded that even the drive by O&H is hard for me. I know I need to share more and be more open with him, so I'm doing my best to focus more on me and less on him. I figure that, if I just keep working on sharing myself, the conversation will come, eventually. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Is that what you were asking? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

By the way, you guys, I wanted to tell you that I thought it was so interesting reading what it was like for you to be sick when you were little. My mom took the position that if you were too sick for school, you were too sick for anything, and you spent the day resting in bed, with no books or TV or anything. LOL. I never felt spoiled or special when I was sick. Mom's care, while very loving, was matter of fact: when you're sick, you need to rest, get plenty of fluids, and go to the doctor. Amazingly enough, I rarely stayed home from school sick as a kid (and I think that was her goal.. she wanted going to school to be more fun than staying home sick, so we wouldn't be motivated to fake illness). LOL.

Hope you all have a marvelous day! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
HTBH

PS LA -- I'm actually 27 now (I know, I'm so old!!) -- glad you got a kick out of balderdash! It wasn't the first word that came to mind, but I was looking for something a little more family-friendly. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Thanks for the story about going up the hill! I think I mentioned that we took a belated trip for our 10th anniversary to Puerto Rico, and had a really similar experience. I have asthma, so I have to be careful not to overdo it lest I trigger an attack, but I'd been walking a lot by then, and my heartrate went up before my lungs kicked in, so it was good, I felt like I had more of a handle on what I could do. We stopped every now and then and took some pictures of the flowers, and that really helped make it more doable, too.

Thank yo for sharing a little more about your life, too. It helps to read how other people find some UA time. The RC inventory is great, but weeknights, we have no hobbies, it's just crash in front of the TV. Stella had a great thread about massage as UA time, and I tried it this weekend. I suggested roller skating as a family Saturday, and it was fun! I hope I'm correct that we're starting to connect a little more.

Weeknights are hard for UA/RC for us, too. We tend to watch TV or read -- which is nice, but not really together time. We try to play cards sometimes, or air hockey. We like to take walks after dinner, too, which is one of my favorites. We're still looking for some ideal weeknight activities!

I like Stella's idea about the massage and quality time together, too. That sounds like HEAVEN to me.

Roller skating as a family sounds like fun, too!

Your trip to Puerto Rico sounds wonderful! Taking flower breaks sounds like a great solution. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Rough morning in the Ears house. MiL had emergency surgery last night. As I was told they had to insert a colostomy bag, not sure of the name. She is to come out of anesthesia this morning, then they will have a better idea if there is a long-term prognosis. His sister was asking him about final arrangements if it was not good.

H called me, and my instinct is to fly there today, but H is not enthusiastic. I asked him if he would consider flying out, and was careful not to punish him when he said "no." I wish that came easier to me, but I had to pretend for the moment, and then sit down and get okay with it when we were done talking. I was honest and told him that it gave me great comfort to be with my sister, and it would give me great comfort to be with MiL. He said his sister asked her last night if she wanted to call us, and she said no. I don't know whether that is true or not. I have no power over his choices. He has a Higher Power who will help him make good decisions.

MiL has a Higher Power that will help her recover whether H, D10, or I are there or not. Maybe if I keep saying that, it will sink in.

When D10 awoke, I told her about it, she's sad and wants to be with her Nana. Is there a dispensation button somewhere on this site that gives me a free pass on POJA about me and D10 flying up there? I have an intuition H will call me any minute with more information from his sister that will make it easy for him to say yes. I think just all this not knowing creates fear. Then once we are there, even though I have no decision making say, I can be there when the doctors update the family and have accurate information for H and I.

I forgot to say, my sister went home Saturday! She's really recoving well <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

LA, I traced back the belief I had that there are things that I feel I can't recover from. What a powerful gift you've shown me, the ability to look at a belief, trace it back, and see how it doesn't exaplin the world I live in anymore.

In my own family, my uncle killed himself, and it was explained to me as a kid, that he loved us, but couldn't go on anymore. That sank in deeply. Divorce was explained in the same way, that it was unavoidable. Likewise, when my Dad didn't fight for custoday, and then stopped seeing us, he sent a card, that it was unavoidable, that it was just to painful to keep the relationship going, that he had to just give up. It was the only option. Growing up in South Florida, I went to school with refugees from Haiti, Cuba, South and Central America, China, Vietnam. These kids couldn't go back to a life that they loved. They were stuck in a foreign land, learning a new language, going to school with kids who teased them about the corruption in their beloved homelands. I was a sensitive kid, and my friends' stories resonated with me as a kid trying to recover from a divorce, similarly in a harsh new reality with an abusive stepfather.

What is the reality? My friends have made wonderful lives here in their new homeland. They weren't broken. Neither was I.

That is why I keep coming back, because when I fully believe my situation has become inevitable, that you all still see other options.

I am really sad for MiL. I'm really sad that she didn't connect with her son in a way that he would want to fly to her when she is ill. I'm really sad that chose to hurt him with continuous cruel commentary over the years. I'm really sad that she raised him in a house where he was a helpless bystander while his father abused her. In a house where her older son was so physically abusive to H.

I feel sad that I was inadequate to help H heal from this in time. I pray that MiL will live long enough for H to find it in his heart to forgive her. I feel so sad that as much as I can fix other things, that as capable as I am in other ways, that this is not mine to fix.

I feel sad at how I miss out on enjoying my kids today, who have off for election day, in my mourning what hasn't yet happened. I am sad for all the days I have sat out in this way.

I am encouraged that I can find other things to do today as I pray for MiL. That I can step back in and live my life today. That I have friends who show me tools that help me recenter. Who show me by their inspiring example. Thank you.

(((EO)))

It's still early, lady! Get out there and enjoy your kids today!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Drop everything and take them for a picnic or something. GO! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Good news! H called the hospital yesterday, and his mom is doing well. She's still being sedated, because when they tried to bring her out of anesthesia she was having heart trouble, but they are monitoring the situation and say her prognosis is good. H says once she's up we will plan a trip the whole family to visit her <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Don't worry, I didn't pressure him.

I got a job offer this morning. It's 45 minutes from here, but everyone has a bad commute down here. The position sounds great, and I like the company, too. Best of all, I can start Monday morning <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Good thing I had a good day with the kids yesterday. We went to the park, and had a good evening together, too.

Congratulations!

Wow, so much great news!! Congratulations! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

EO,

CONGRATS!!! (that's a BIG congrats, you understand)

On all of you...your job, your acceptance, growth, knowledge, awareness, pure intent and loving acts.

Now, prepare for abundance.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

LA

Thanks for the congratulations, Happy and LA! I am feeling like I can tackle anything today, including abundance <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Nia, I didn't know you still keep up with me. Thanks for your presence, too <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

How's the weather today?? Exhilarating, maybe? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

(It is, by the way, absolutely beautiful here. I'm about to go play outside. LOL. I'm feeling on top of the world myself today!)

Hugs to you all!

Yes, exhilarating. And liberating. I will finally be fully self-supporting again. The salary from this position is higher than my last one, and my salary alone is enough to cover most of our fixed expenses, which means that with two incomes together, we can both work on funding our retirements. A very secure feeling, one that was hard to give up. I knew before I was okay, and would land on my feet, but I feel much more secure in that now.

Edited to add: and excited! I am ready for a challenge <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

"Maybe this isn't a question of priorities so much as a question of you reacting to something. Do you think you might have been reacting? And if so, to what?

Sort of like, do you remember when my mom was "giving me a hard time" (in my perspective) about the family reunion, and I reacted instantly? And my post was pretty anxious and defensive, wasn't it? I wanted so badly to prove that she couldn't tell me what to do, that I was overlooking the fact that she, um, couldn't tell me what to do. There was this instinctive urge to prove it, to take a stand, to do something -- and I wasn't operating from my normal HTBH self but from that anxious lizard perspective.

I'm just wondering if this situation is similar for you, if you are reacting from anxiety and defensiveness rather than from your real EO self."
Happy, I hope that you don't mind revisiting this with me. I was taking in so much at once that I didn't really get to process it all. Which is okay, because if I don't catch it this go-round, I'll get another chance down the line <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> But I feel ready to get this one.

POJA, don't be the cause of your spouse's unhappiness, don't love bust, is a big part of my code. But I am so sensitive to feeling controlled, to feeling like my options are reduced. My old brain kicks in, tells me to do what I think is "right" regardless of whether it breaks my code to not hurt H.

So, I'm trying to identify my old brain belief, and trace it back. I think that it is that "Give him an inch & he'll take a mile" that I would run into with the bullies at school as a kid. When I am most wanting to break POJA, I am assuming that H's intent is to harm me. If I look at that assumption, I feel strongly that is not true, that in the things we have talked about, H acts the way he does from fear, because he doesn't trust me to protect him, either. Please forgive me if I'm rehashing what LA had already explained so well. I'm willing to go first.

Where does this break down? My pride. It is EMBARASSING for me to tell a friend that my MiL is in the ICU but I look forward to going up there, and then when I talk to her again and she asks me when I'm going, and I say I haven't made plans yet. She asks me what's stopping me, and I say H doesn't agree yet. I think that the vast majority of folks with an ill parent in the ICU across the country would have already gone to visit, whether she's under sedation or not. And even if I'm wrong, I want to be there. I do feel controlled, that I'm not allowed to go. Happy, you have said before that I choose to give my power away. I think you may well be right. But I don't see what other options there are. Where am I going wrong? In looking forward to options that aren't available to me? How do you make peace with the feeling that your life is being run by a dictator, even a well-intentioned one?

I have changed how I do many things that don't matter that much. But I have not been able to accept that my responsibility, my code, to choose actions that will not be the source of H's unhappiness means that it's been days already and I still have no firm plan to see my MiL.

Hi EO,

I'm delighted to revisit that old post with you!

First I want to say how happy I am for YOU, thrilled to hear about your excitment, exhiliration, and security. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> GO EO!!

So back to the old post..


I have a TON of questions for you. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Why are you embarrassed to tell your friend you and H haven't finalized the plan yet?

I used to feel this way, too, I would tell a friend about something I was doing (or not doing) to accommodate H, and then say something like, "Oh, you know, it's not that he MADE me do it, I just wanted to do it this way too" -- so that I wasn't giving off the impression that he was controlling me.

So I'm not criticizing you here, just wondering what is triggering the embarassment? Why is it shameful to admit to making joint decisions with your H, rather than doing your own thing?

Then, why do you think the vast majority of folks would be in the hospital visiting their parent? How can you know that to be true? The one thing I AM sure of is that the vast majority of folks have old, funky issues to work through with their parents, and they all deal with it in their own way. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

My grandpa was an alcoholic, and as you can imagine, my dad and his siblings had some major mixed feelings about him. When he was sick and then dying, each of them (there are 5 kids) had to decide how to deal with it -- and each dealt with it in their own way. Not all of them visited him in the hospital. Some of them were relieved when he died. I don't judge any of them for how they handled it -- I know they did what was best for them, and I'm proud of them for that.

And I firmly believe your H is handling this the best he can. Being there in person may be too much for him. That's OK.


Can I say balderdash again? LOL. You aren't controlled, are you? You could go if you wanted, you could pack up the kids and leave right now. You are choosing not to do that, because you believe it's in your marriage's best interest for you not to. You don't need my permission or your H's permission or anyone's to go or to stay -- you have CHOSEN to stay because you are honoring your marriage by following POJA.

If that ain't powerful, I don't know what is! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


One of the things that I love about the POJA process is that you're supposed to sit down and figure out the problem before you brainstorm solutions. What most of us tend to do is offer a solution first, and then want the other person to go along with it.

Does that make sense? Don't worry, I have an example. LOL.

OK, say I want to spend more RC time with my H (the problem). I decide on my own that the way to go is to take ballroom dancing lessons (that's the solution). So then I ask him if he wants to take lessons, and he says no. Now we have a problem, because there are only two options: my way (dance lessons) or his way (no dancing).

But what if I had come to him and said, Hey honey, I want to spend more time together, can we see if we can come up with an activity that we would both enjoy? Then there would be INFINITE solutions that we could brainstorm, and surely we'd be able to find one that we both liked.

One more example.. Say I want to go to a Mexican restaurant for dinner. I might want to go because I love Mexican food and I'm really craving tacos. OR I might want to go because it's close to home and it's really easy to get there. OR I might want to go because I want a margarita. If H doesn't want to go there for some reason, we could get into a tug-of-war over whether or not to go. OR I could say, "Well, the reason I wanted to go was because it's close" and then we can find a close restaurant we both agree on. Or if I really want Mexican food, maybe we can agree on a different Mexican restaurant.

If I try to argue for a particular solution, that does lock us into a my way/your way conflict. If I can explain WHY I want that solution, what problem or need I am trying to solve with that solution, then we can usually find many more ways to solve my problem or meet that need, which gives us plenty of choices.

So... applying this to your MIL... It seems to me that going to visit your MIL is a specific course of action, ie, it's the solution, not the problem. So what's the problem? Why do you want to go there?

If you want to see her to reassure yourself she's OK, then are there other ways you could do that? Such as, ask SIL to take a picture for you, call MIL on the phone, talk to her doctor, etc. If you want to go so you can comfort her, are there other ways you can do that -- send her flowers, or ask SIL to read her a note from you and the kids, or call and talk to her, or send her favorite candy or a teddy bear.

If you can first figure out what the problem is (I want to visit her BECAUSE I want to do THIS), then I think you'll be able to think of lots of options that would still solve your problem that H would be enthusiastic about.

I think where POJA gets stuck is that we try to find (or force) agreement on a particular solution, rather than addressing the underlying issue or problem.

Hope some of this is helpful to you.. It sure was helpful to me to spell it all out (the stuff about problems vs solutions truly was an epiphany that came to me JUST NOW as I was typing.). <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hugs!
HTBH

PS LA, if you're reading this, I saw your post on Anna's thread... I LOVED it! You are my hero. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />