LA, Thanks for the hugs! Right back atcha! (((((LA))))) Thanks for the remonder to separate the feels and thinks. I feel weary, overwhelmed, yet I still get to choose my perspective. And in the past, I found it hard to accept the likelihood that the hard times may be temporary and normal.

"What if he acts highly critical...

and you're not happy with him right now?

Two separate things?"

Do you mean I didn't cause it, can't control it, and can't cure it? It took me a few times rereading it to see that you may be right about that <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I haven't heard of that book, but I like the name of the author! I just ordered a few last week, but I forgot the names! It was one that a friend recommended about ACOAs. I'll check that one you recommended out, though!

Well, if you're driving to SoCal, you'll have time to read in the car!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

What if feeling weary in your body is from the tension, the fear, all those chemicals your fight or flight response unleashes? And you fighting your old responses...so it's a valiant weariness? When moving like this, we bite off more than our real one day, don't we? Just today...which is all we have, right now.

Lots of energy goes into the swirls and the past and the future and the overlaps...all the details and arrangements...

Find your positives...to balance the whole...not to deceive yourself.

You won't have the humidity and you get to keep the sunshine.

If your hair frizzes in the humidity...it won't in SoCal.

There are no snakes, alligators or racoons...unless things have REALLY changed since I grew up there.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Make your list...write your fears down...find your "always" and "nevers" 'cuz they are hiding further underneath your new awareness...and see how easily you identified the way you coupled his critical to your unhappy with him with a because.

Easy to do. Easy to see. What friends are for.

'Cuz you're worth it! (And LOL on forgetting the titles...I hear ya!!)

LA

P.S. Are you following In_Limbo_Land's thread in Recovery? Tiptoeing, I think. She just had a surgery (last Friday) you may be interested in next year. Just as options, not advice. The way you are becoming healthy will work splendidly...did for me back when. So when I say I KNOW we fall back into our old patterns...I'm not talking out of my hat. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Yes, when I'm weary, I do envision it as a lifetime of battling against H. And a lifetime of my kids battling him as well. My sponsor says that I worry alot about how my kids are affected, and that she wants me to look at the possibility that I may be working through MY unresolved childhood issues through them.

I have a lot of fear, about LA, it feels like a summer-long trip we made in 2002 to NYC. We were out of work, and stayed in a cheap, roach infested place, setting off roach bombs weekly. We kept paper plates, cups, and pots and pans in the fridge in the hopes that the bugs would not make it in there. I should have took both kids and went home, but my insecurity kept me there with H.

Adopting a more grown up mindset, if things are not working in LA, I can pack up the kids and go home. I don't need to worry about tomorrow.

There are some nice things about SoCal:

great opportunities in my field, which I have yet to explore
a great place for D11 to explore acting more
more moderate temperature than here in the summer

BTE, if you're here, thanks for recommending that camp, we're seriously cosidering it.

LA, please let me know when you have my email address, on the previous page, so I can edit it out. Thanks!

LA, the post I was to be watching out for, was it this link:

H20 Gaslighting

H told our neighbors, friends, and family this weekend that we're coming back after the summer, and even calls the middle school down here that D11 is set to attend thins year to double check she's getting into the special math program. So I say today, it's funny, I get all worked up about moving, come to a place of acceptance, and then realize we're probably coming back. That I didn't need to worry about any of that. And then H says, no, we're really planning on moving, I don't know where you got the idea we weren't. I do feel like a nut after conversations like that.

Then, I got home, and read Stella's post to FHL, that this stuff really is comical when you look at it from the right angle. And it is. I started laughing, myself.

I heard a scripture on the radio this morning, not to worry about tomorrow, because tomorrow brings its own worries. Sounds good to me!

Actually, no, that wasn't the planned post.

LOL

I had to email the publisher to ask permission if I could post the book summary I wanted to...okay, I didn't "have to"...I did.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I'm delighted you read the Gaslighting ones, though...hope you read the response Star*fish just posted on that thread. Wowsers!!

Great to hear you laugh...be stunned...be tickled...and KNOW you are sane.

Here's another website for ya...I just found...once you're there, click on The Quiz link. www.youarenotcrazy.com

He didn't know where you got the idea you weren't moving, permanently? Answer: By your actions, DH. And smile.

I'm gonna go read Stella's post to FHL now.

(((EO))) humming..."whatever will be, will be...the future's not ours to see...que sera, sera"

LA

Thanks for the link, wow, that was something. My H said that this weekend, that we should tape our conversations, so I could see how difficult I am. It hurt that he felt this was about me vs. him, instead of how can we fix this. But, separate and equal, that is not mine to own.

Listening to that couple in the linkwas pretty eerie, LA. I got to where I had to not play the sound. But I was surprised how many I identified. Freaky that I was uncomfortable listening to that, but yet I have exposed my kids to it.

Thanks for the tip about star's post, it was great!

Hugs!

You're welcome. You know, you're not alone.

Not even close.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

What if...he wanted to tape your conversations to prove how difficult you are...and found out what he sounds like? And you, what you really sound like? To know...not to judge...not to immediately fix or stop.

To know...widen our minds...our awareness?

Your H is willing to do this? Whatever his reasons...don't step over he's willing to do this...what do you think?

And a tiny what if...what if H wants you to walk in his head, feel in his heart a bit...not that you're difficult...that he's had a difficult time understanding (because of feeling judged) all his life...and he wants YOU to be in there...past all the miscommunication, expectations and failures?

Hmmm?

Choose what you believe, EO...taping your conversations would be together...not versus. Did you read my new link (YAY, I figured out how to put a link in my sigline...wohooo)?

Also...what if saying, "I heard him say this (about taping and me being difficult) and I immediately thought this was me versus him. I felt hurt and angry. I expect him to say 'that so we can fix our communication'. When he said what I didn't want to hear, I hurt, felt reactive, right away."

Then breathe from your belly. "What would a partner choose to hear?" (Which is why I hand you back possibilities...totally your choice of perspective.) "And now, what do I feel? What will I choose to do?"

We have passed down and passed on, and heck, passed around a lot of those phrases...I believe we've withheld, forgot, denied, diverted, blocked, shut down, tuned out, minized, discounted, played victim, victimized, and so much more...with ourselves, our partners, our children, our coworkers, our friends, our acquaintences...and we knew not why or what we did...and we do now.

There's our power. There is our thousand betrayals of self and others. Think self-image is where we do this from? Real self doesn't have an agenda.

And I don't believe these hurtful statements are original...I believe they are what we heard growing up, seem like protection...and we pull them out when we fear.

To me, this says boldly--learn a lot, grow and know.

No more time for judging. Identifying and owning is worth the effort and the time...so we can real connection without the manipulation.

So we can act and live from love...not fear.

EO, we're really going somewhere new, 'k? Hold that close in your heart and foremost in your mind. You're not alone. You're not wrong or bad or difficult. You're complex. Your H is complex. Partnering and parenting (which we do at the same darn time for 20 years) is complex.

May feel difficult, insurmountable and sickly cyclical.

(I just read Aphelion's post from Alice in Wonderland...my alliterative self-control is whacky right now.)

Now, I'm going to inhale with my belly, exhale all my fear and post that what I think of as an important link in two forums...here in ENs and over on GQII.

From love. Not fear.

LA

LA, I love your what-ifs, picking the BEST in the bunch. Thank you for that.

"What would a partner choose to hear?" (Which is why I hand you back possibilities...totally your choice of perspective.) "And now, what do I feel? What will I choose to do?"
Some powerful stuff, choosing your persepctive <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I am looking forward to your link!

The one in your sig line was awesome <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

And your post to HHW and LB was awesome, too!

You know, I wish everyone would consider Alanon meetings. When it was suggested to me, I balked...that's only for those...(I'm sure you've heard all the judgments).

When it's totally for humans.

You're very welcome to all that I have, EO. Gonna miss not meeting you in July. I may have to make a SoCal trip, instead, 'k?

Oh, and about choosing our perspective...I've been reacting to something that DH did this past weekend...and I did my thing and spoke...shared. Hidden under that was an expectation which wasn't met. Been reacting sense.

Today, after posting to a fresh BS, I started to cry (when I hit submit), and this thought was behind the tears..."My DH stayed. He chose the marriage." Really changed my perspective, and that thought came from me, inside. Whole pictures are really hard to see when we zoom in on the incidents, tones, gestures, choices...no balance. Not a real picture.

I wanted to drive right over to my DH's work and hug the snot out of him.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

We influence our own love banks, too.

LA

LA, I had edited a post back on the previous page not knowing that you had already seen it and responded. I'm driving from LA to Santa Fe for my brother's wedding, and would be honored to take a detour to Colorado. Of course, you are more than welcome to come to SoCal.

The FlyLady website is planning an October cruise to Alaska. They meet every year. How cool would it be if we had an MB cruise!

HHW and LB remind me of how bad I was swirling when I got to Alanon. How externally focused. It's really reassuring to know that there's hope.

Thanks for sharing that about your husband. How you can find gratitude in unexpected places.

Oh, I'm on MB to remind myself I choose my perspective. Helps when I lose that awareness. Not an unexpected place.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Yes, I saw your post and knew you were driving. And my mind was on you driving from Florida to LA (the moving). What I didn't say was "Please don't go out of your way...because you have one heckuva long, long, long, long, very long drive." I was managing your choices for ya. I'm sorry. I cannot imagine myself in a car, driving all that way (by yourself??) with two younger girls. I think I flashed back to our summer vacations in the station wagon (my sister and me) and shuddered.

ROFL

In reality, it's five or six (or seven) hours to Denver from Santa Fe. That's nothing to sneeze at. The variation on hours is from the input of DH and YS...and they didn't agree in their estimates. Heehee. I love my family.

Yes, a cruise would be delicious...we have yet to be on one. The future is full of possibilities, EO. You're creating the possibility just by sharing it!!

Did you get my email, btw?

LA

LA, I did get your email, thanks!

Saturday, the girls and I are flying out. We'll come back and get the cars later in the summer if we're going to move there for sure.

At work, everyone acted like it was wierd that I wanted to try the place out before deciding to move. They thought it makes more sense to just move all at once, get a job out there. It works for me, though. To me, it is a big decision.

H got a call YESTERDAY about a great job next to where my company is. That's some O&H, to share that he's not considering it, because he's committed to his position in SoCal.

Good luck on your trip. I don't think it is strange in the least that you want to get an opinion of the area before moving there. I suppose I don't care for surprises (unless they are pleasant ones, but how often does that happen?)

Safe flight!

Thanks, chobbs, for the encouragement!

It's great to see you here, I often wonder how you are. How have you been? How are your kids? How about an update <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thanks for thinking of me. I've been delinquent about updating my thread(s), so I'll give the quick and dirty:

I'm Ok. Everything is supposedly "better", but I'm having a hard time with my own anger, AO to be specific. And while I'm not taking it out on my H, I'm not patient with the children, awful, I know. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I think the anger stems from entitlement, but I can't figure out what it is I think I'm entitled to, other than a lack of time. But as a parent, wife, and employee, it simply isn't logical to expect more than a few minutes of each day for me. Part of me wonders if it isn't physiological (hormones have been all mixed up since having the youngest child), not that that excuses my behavior... But it is a start towards fixing it. Oh, and I'm losing my job, but everytime I think on that, it is a happy feeling... so I don't think that is a factor.

Anyway, I don't want to t/j. I'm working on it, b/c I know it isn't good for me, my M, or my kids. I think when I have a better handle on it, I'll start a thread, or update an old one.... (I'm not trying to suggest we can't talk about it, but I don't want to be rude and t/j!)

Chobbs, I don't see it as a t/j as all, but I know how helpful it is keeping your thoughts together on one thread, so you can see how your experience changes over time.

Everything is better, how amazing! Did it surprise you, or had you been hopeful?

Okay, the anger stems from entitlement. But the AOs, they are specific behavior that you can eliminate, while keeping the anger as a valid signal.

Three toddlers, right? Hard to stay calm and serene! But you se the toe for the house, so it's really important.

I just looked for the Love Busters book, so I could let you know what the exercise for this was, but I didn't find it <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I think it was that you write Angry Outbursts on a piece of paper, and then your spouse writes them down, so you can see them. Helps with awareness.

You Don't Have To Take it Anymore has the HEALs method, which reconnects you to core value when you get these signals.

Only two rugrats.

I have LB, so I'll look up those exercises. Thanks for reminding me that they are in there.

I also ordered the book you recommended.

Better, is "better", but it isn't where I'd hope we'd be. We aren't sniping at each other these days, and it is a more polite tone, sometimes even considerate, around the house (excluding my outbursts). But we're rather at a stage where we are roommates (with benefits). We're just not enamored of each other. Whoops, DJ. I'm not enamored of H. I should be working hard on spending recreational time together, and for a while it was working, but I'm so burnt out being the fuel for this "recovery" that I'm becoming resentful. Then again, I suppose that's not fair to hold him responsible, though, as I'm only changing me, not manipulating the outcome of our M. I guess it is fair to say I'm feeling conflicted with how I used to think vs MB thinking. New habits are still not fully rooted...

Hey EO, how was your trip?

We're here in SoCal for the summer. So far, it's wonderful. H is on an expense account, so we're staying in a two-bedroom apartment in a great building with
two gyms, two pools, and its own park downstairs. Not a very realistic picture, because the rent is more than double our mortgage back home. But we're loving it, and can learn more about the area meanwhile.

I am really working on my parenting. The kids constantly poke at one another, and i thought, you know, maybe this is what kids do. Maybe I am doing them a disservice by constantly trying to intervene. So I told them, I am going to repsect them by not intervening unless they ask me. They both said, no, they don't want me to wait, so I said, let's just try it, and then we'll see how it's working. If their bickering ios bothering me (like in the car) I have a codeword that tells them to stop. It's working great. They cut WAY down on the bickering, and I'm at peace because any of us can put a stop to it any moment. They use the code word, too. I asked them what they wanted for the codeword, and they said, "fart." They had fun telling their Dad that they "farted" all day <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I am making progress with the negotiating, too. H and I had become really distant, and I told him, I need words of affection from you. I went into more detail, really specifically, what I wanted and how it I think it would help me. Like before, he pointed to my weight as the obstacle. I had read LA's link, and kept to the topic instead of getting sucked in. In the end, even though he didn't agree that I needed that, he said he'd try. So far, it's working well. I think we're building a habit <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />