One time I drove to the airport to pick up my husband, in nothing but a robe. We diverted to an abandoned road on the way home, made out like school kids in the car, and he has never forgotten that night. But thank goodness my car didn't break down on the way there! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Bold move, Cat. I like it. Wish I had the confidence!

A friend of ours is throwing another friend a birthday party that evening, so I'll pick H up and bring him to the party. I've had a hard time with resentment when I've planned something special when he gets home. I enjoy the planning, but then when he's here, if I feel distant, which is normal, then I feel like the extra planning was just reinforcing him to travel more. I will give it a shot, though, and let go of the results.

While things are calm may be a good time to reason this out, so I'll be ready if this returns. I'm trying to get my side of the fence in order, and this is something that's very helpful but more difficult for me. I don't know why I've always had such trouble with clarifying/finding my predetermined boundary enforcements. What works for you guys?

Here's my rough draft. Things are pretty calm now, so I tried to reflect that.

For SDs/DJs/verbal AOs:

1. "Ouch" Or "When you say.... I feel...."
2. "Stop, [defining me, putting me down in front of the the kids] is abusive" I leave the room for 5 minutes, or longer if he's still looking mad when I get back.
3. Assuming I'm still calm, listen and repeat, again clarifying what isn't okay for me. I leave the house for a half an hour., or again stay away if he still looks mad.

eo, I wish I could help, but I'm nowhere near as far into solutions as you are. Keep up the good work.

I think this is an excellent start, EO. The one suggestion I'd make is that if you're dealing with multiple occurrences of the same situation day after day or week after week, you may want to extend the initial time you remove yourself from his presence. After the 3,4,5 time, leaving the room for 5 minutes may not make much of an impact.

One thing I'm learning is that a boundary I need to set for myself to not cross is losing my calm. I've tended to think of boundaries as only the lines I won't allow others to cross, when I also need to include boundaries I won't allow myself to cross. I think you've done a good job of including that in your draft.

"I've had a hard time with resentment when I've planned something special when he gets home."

The only thing I have to add, is that if there's a chance he will be tired/hungry/travel weary then don't spring this on him without letting him know first, or maybe stop off at home first to drop off luggage or freshen up and stuff. He may be different, but that is what I would appreciate if it were me.

That may help prevent feeling distant or resentful - on his part, or prevent a response from him that might lead to your resentment or distance. As in, if he's surprised but he was looking forward to a snack and cleaning up, his response to going to a party may not be what you hoped for. Especially if you are looking for meeting your EN of Admiration.

Your rough draft sounds great. I don't have any suggestions to add to what you've already gotten. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Well, H didn't get much of a homecoming. He was able to come back early, on Friday, but I've been as sick as a dog this week. My sister stayed over while H was gone to help me keep order here, feed the kids, go grocery shopping, help them get their homework done, but they still had a bunch of toys out left to put away, and the tree was still up when H got back. I knew this stuff would bother him, but I really felt unable to get it done myself. I had the kids put away about half of it.

Fortunately, somehow, after working a half day and travelling the rest of the day, H was able to declutter the kids toys Friday night, and Saturday did most of the work with the tree. I am feeling alot better than I was, and was able to help. He truly amazes me, this man. I'd need a day to recover from travelling LOL.

We were able to make it to the party tonight. H has really been connecting with some of the husbands, and had a good time on the trip, too. I am really happy to see him more like himself again.

I am sorry to hear you've been sick. But I'm happy to hear that H came through for you with the help, and even attending the party and connecting with other H's.

Did you guys talk enough while he was gone, to your satisfaction?

I'm sending you a e-cup of hot herbal tea and some belated get-well wishes!

We did get to talk a lot, and that did help me to feel a lot more connected. I think really made a difference that we've been able to fill each other's love banks really well lately.

On a differnt note, I've been getting a lot better at implementing POJA on my side. Instead of not doing something because I think H would say no, I ask him first, and have been really surprised at how many times he says yes. Or even when he says no, I ask how else I can get that need met, and lately we've been finding middle ground a lot. Last night, I even got a foot rub <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I know this is OT, but I really feel deflated this morning. Another close friend called me this morning and told me that she's decided that she's leaving her marriage. They have a 6 year old son, and celebrated their 10th anniversary last year. In a nutshell, they each are involved in long-term one-sided EAs. Neither are trying to meet needs for the other.

I wish that the Basic Concepts were added to curriculum in school. I feel bad especially for their son, who adores his dad. But he has a habit of not taking initiative, and I fear that he won't stay involved in his son's life. That he will blame my friend for this choice, too. I pray that my friend and her H will find their hearts soften towards one another.

I've been sick for over a week now, and haven't had the energy to meet some of the ENs that I had been. I'm still doing what I can, but it feels like there's a LOT of FS to be done in my house. Homework, schlepping to soccer, dinner, and so on. I've reading that book Telly recommended, about Improving your Relationship without talking about it, and it has the Three States Of Mind with different names:

Approach - Intimacy
Attack - Conflict
Avoid - Withdrawal

As an aside, I find it fascinating that two people with unique backgrounds and perspectives come to the same conclusion, even the names being so similar. Very validating that these are ideas that would work universally.

So anyhow, I felt my H move from Intimacy to Conflict. And all of a sudden I became aware of my boundaries being crossed, where they hadn't been before. Telly, thanks for pointing out (why didn't I see that) that "wierd" and other words like that don't belong in my house! My first thought was to go to bed, because I'm sick and tired and maybe my boundary enforcement wouldn't be so calm. But I hung in there, sick and all, and it was okay. When I asked my H to stop, he stopped. No escalation. I didn't have to leave the room. I really couldn't believe this.

Thanks, guys, for hanging in with me long enough that I could see the results!

Oh yay!

I'm glad the book is helpful, and that I gave you something to think about, too.

It feels good to be useful sometimes.

You're really working hard on all this stuff, eo--even though you don't feel so great.

(btw, have you considered seeing a dr. if you're not better in a few days?)

Hi Telly, I can't do the chauffering out at night to the soccer fields, so at least there's some work I can do from my couch <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I did finally break down yesterday and go to the doctor. Why do we fight these acts of self-care. I think ti was my denial, I'm not THAT sick, right?

Ears,

I just wanted to share that I read the link in your sig line for the article about everyone makes sense all of the time.

WOW!! What a huge eye opener that article was for me. I loved the iceberg analogy. In my admin. program they used the analogy of an iceberg too, but it wasn't as an indepth explanation as the link I read from you. The one I had heard was more like this... the part of the iceberg that is above the waterline... the part that teachers etc. see is why some of the frustration occurs relating to certain decisions that are made that sometimes seem not to make sense. Those at each higher level of admin. have access to more and more of what lies beneath the water line... therefore because they have been shared with more... have more information, the decision appear to make more sense to them. Due to privacy laws enacted to protect students and parents, some of the information must remain below the water line. After reading that article, I can see how having more information would be helpful.

I liked the part where it said all people make sense all of the time. I had to think about that for awhile... and then I really got how true that rang for me... especially in my own life... personal life. The part where Turtle discuss what is at the lowest part the deepest level of the below waterline... (sunconscious?) made me think WOW. I do believe and accept that within my own self (and this would also be true for others as well) there are parts so deep down inside of us...buried in layers of what may very well be even unconscious to us...helped me to really understand the idea that we all make sense all the time. Even when it may not appear to any of us that we do.

The bee sting story was helpful... a tool for me to understand the premise more clearly and therfore understand why the more information that we choose to share... with others, the more we bring them into the clarity of what our sense is. Doesn't mean... their sense is our sense, but it also doesn't mean that their sense doesn't make sense.

If we begin with the belief that everyone makes sense all of the time, then I think this will help me avoid DJ's and LB's because I can accept that none of our sense is exactly the same. No iceberg is identical.

When I look at my own FOO... my dad and SM have been married about 35 years. Between them they have 6 kids... none of whom are their child together. She has 4 kids from her first M and my dad has 2. I am adopted. None of us experienced the exact same experience growing up. None of all lived with them at the same time. All of lived with the other parent (my sister and I lived with our mom, my step siblings lived with their dad part of our lives...) SO essentially although we all had access to the same 35 year M of that FOO none of us lived the same life, nor had the same experiences. Even if we had all lived together under their roof at the same time we STILL would not have experienced exactly the same because on the deeper unconscious level each of us are in fact unique and had our own individual experiences that shaped who we have become.

Although we have shared many common experiences... also doesn't mean that we experienced them the same way through the same filter. So we have some experiences that most of us will agree on to some degree... that make similar sense to all of us, because each of us is a different iceberg (no two exactly the same) each of our sense is and will continue to be uniquely our own.

An example of how this can be used in my life at this point is accepting that when my dad and SM made the choice several years in a row to (they give $$$ to us and the grandkids for Christmas for the last several years) give a substantially smaller amount of $$$ to my DSS which doesn't make MY sense... doesn't mean it doesn't make their sense. I don't have to agree with the reasons that they share for why they have made this choice. I can accept that this makes sense to their sense. I can choose to believe that their intent is to control and manipulate through the vehicle of giving money... punishing DSS because he doesn't behave in a way that makes their sense, continue to share what my sense is and why and then just accept that I don't have to agree with their sense in order for it to make sense. I can choose to conintue to share what my sense is with them is about it. Not to change their sense but rather to give them a better understanding of my own sense regarding it. I don't have to be disrespectful about it either. They can continue to share their sense of why they choose to do what they do. We may never agree. Doesn't mean either of our senses don't make sense. I can learn to accept and acknowledge that this is their sense and it makes sense to them. I can stop trying to change their sense to MY sense. I think this will be helpful to just accept that everyone makes sense all of the time and just because their sense isn't my sense doesn't mean it doesn't make sense.

I spent some time reading over at that site last night. I plan to read some more of the articles that are there. Some of the communication exercises and techniques there seem like they would be of vast use to me in my own growth, so I thank you for having that link in your signature line. It was helpful to me.

Jilly

Jilly, I'm glad that article spoke to you. I really needed that article, too. It really helped me move from actively working to eliminate DJs to just not having those thoughts as much.

I would like to read it too, when I have some time. I seem to have relapsed, just 13 days into the new year!

Thanks ears for continually providing us with insightful posts and redirecting us toward good!

Thanks, jayne, for the kind words! Relapsed? I'll go check out your thread. If I don't respond, it's because I'm having trouble with the pages loading tonight.

Hey, EO...

Just wanted you to know I'm reading you...loving who you are...on MB and off! I have slowed way down in posting in the last month and a half...and this last go round, well...you know.

Working on standing up and ducking at the same time. Waiting to see God's hands move...'cuz I know they are...

I'm still with...in your fan club, EO...

LA

LA, thanks for you post, I am grateful for your presence, as always <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Do you mind if I ask why you've slowed down? I have often wondered, as much as I am refocused by my time here, if I'm not balancing it enough with IRL activities? Especially someone like me who could use more exercise.

But then, I wonder, would I backslide? There is nowhere that I can communicate that I would be called on the mat for DJs as fast as I would here.

The interpersonal things, is it related to that? I am glad that we seem pretty sheltered from that on this side. I think it's because we have different things to learn. On ENs, likely we need to focus on eliminating LBs, including in our language. Where the higher priority in GQ would understandably be no longer standing by while things that are against what you stand for continue on, regardless of how you get the message across.

Anyhow, if you don't feel comfortable to respond, I won't take it as about me. But as you holding to your boundaries, not sharing in a place that's not guaranteed to be safe. IRL, I don't participate where I don't feel safe, either. My presence is too valuable for that.

(((LovingAnyway)))