Probably too soon for an update, but anyhow, things are going really really well, just for today. Don't worry, I'm not setting expectations, just enjoying the days as they come. We've been spending a lot of time together again, and it's funny how everything else almost falls into place on its own when we're able to do that.

I am really working on POJA. We've been going places in one car again, but H really wants to leave almost everywhere we go before it's over, like parties and shows. Except for movies, then he will stay 'till the end. I am a lot better at staying aware not to DJ and get frustrated with it. I'm going to print off the RC inventory again, and I hope to find things that we are more enthusiastic about.

Last week, Telly wrote about how her family values some folks more than others. The reminder came at a good time, because my oldest brother's coming to town, and I'll be aware not to put him above H even though we don't see my brother that often. I'll POJA the time together instead of making plans and then telling H later where he needs to be and when. Then DJing with H if he doesn't want to participate in every activity and stay until the end. Gosh, that was a lot of expectations to put on his shoulders!

EO,

Yes and yes as an answer. I'm working on it.

I know it's hard to not put others above your marriage because of those short-term factors...getting to see your brother rarely, your DH all the time.

LOL

When you look at what you're using to compare, priorities shift..."feel" right...not even close, eh? Sounds to me that's what you're learning right now.

I'm facing the same thing, sort of, this weekend...something really big for my family...and I fear putting my father ahead of my DH. So I'm with you, EO!

LA

Exactly. I am grateful that I get the chance to make amends to H. That I can handle this visit differently. That it's win-win, not either-or. Choosing not to gain at his expense. Valuing H's presence. Listening and repeating that H does value my time with him.

I found a false payoff there, thinking that H didn't want to be around me. Then I could just plan as I wanted, without asking how he felt about that, beacuse I'd picked the belief that he didn't want to be around me, anyway.

Is your Dad coming to visit? I don't remember him doing that before.

Nope, we're all going there...which is a first.

My Dad has visited multiple times...made it to each of my children's graduation, stopped in when travelling for a convention, and came most recently last Mother's Day...which was a very special treat for me.

He won't be back here, though...the altitude is too much for him now. He's turning 80 this week...hence, the very special celebration at his place. First time for my kids to go there...first for great-grandbaby; first with DIL on a trip with DS's family; first time my children will meet my sister; first time my husband meets my sister.

Oh, no pressure there.

LOL

I fear screwing up something important in the reservations, something in the transportation...just something. Appreciate any prayers...this will be like a mythical place to my sons...so, I don't know. Just showing up and seeing what happens, I guess. We're in God's hands...which reminds me, I have to call my car insurance place to find out if they also cover the rental van.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

LA

Wow, LA, I am so happy to hear that you're all headed down there! It's MLK Day, so I've got to ask, are you going somewhere where your H will be respected as an equal? My extended family is biracial, too, and I know that can create its own issues with family get togethers. People come up and say the most unexpected things, like saying racist things, and then saying "but I'm not talking about you, you're not one of *those people*."

Guess I missed the biracial part...that doesn't apply to my situation. Was it MLK today that was on your mind...or something else I missed?

LA

LA, I'm sorry, I must've confused you with another poster. It was on my mind, already, though. My friends are a very diverse group, and where I work, too. We respect each other as equals. Yet there are others places I go including some family gatherings this week <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> where still today there are some unfortunate stereotypes.

But we are new everyday. Thanks for sharing how you'll experience it as it comes! I wish you a wonderful trip.

I thought so...and I wondered if you were wondering about these first-time meetings...and if you wanted to know why, I'd tell ya!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thank you, though, for the reminder about equals. I needed to hear that again, not for the racial aspect...for the everyone on the planet aspect. And I have to say, it wasn't on my mind today in that way...only envy was there that my YS didn't have to go to school and here I am at work.

I understand the challenge you face...like I do...when we do the old dance with our extended family...the pull of it...gonna remind myself their stuff is theirs...hands off (said to me).

We can do this, EO.

LA

LA, I was wondering, but I had made an assumption about why, so I was afraid to ask. I'm going to throw away that assumption and ask. Why are these first time meetings?

Glad you asked...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Because my mother had a rule...that if my children were ever to visit, they could only come one at a time...and we were not able to send one...or bring one and leave the others behind.

Also, there was the whole disownment thing, off and on, from having the children. Understandable.

When I visited my parents in 2003...that was the first time I'd seen my mother in 20 years...or my sister. So five years later seems more on ME for not bringing the lot of us down than them keeping us away. I messed it up...I operated under the old rules...my mother had a lot of anxiety, didn't like crowds and my brood was a crowd...and she had very little immune system since 2002...

All factors...none of them enough to prohibt us in 2004 from going down, staying at a hotel, and bringing over the children one at a time to visit her. Okay, my OS was overseas, guess that was a factor...still, I could have done it anyway.

That's my half, 'k? Not a complete shut-out...sure can feel like it when I don't own my part of it.

I got to visit, though, four times before she died from 2003 to 2006...and to me, that's my blessing. Gotta focus on that part...

So this is big...my Dad actually has my crew planned to stay all over our house (including two kids on two couches...and yes, my mother would faint--not a DJ)...and my sister and her H at a nearby hotel. Very cool this welcome...miraculous to me...for his generosity (when he visited my home in 2002 for OS graduation, he declared it "Bedlam, I tell ya!" and it was)...his love. We have a new relationship...and I'm still dazed from it.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

And yeah...I'm sure you can see the lure, my false payoff, to put my father ahead of my DH...'cuz dear Daddy is making those love deposits, too! ROFL.

Thank you for your consideration of me, your protective nature and your consistent understanding for me, EO.

You double my joy and halve my fear.

Means the world.

LA

Thanks, LA, for sharing that! I thought it was about restrictions your mom had. Hoops that would seem overwhelming to jump through. I am glad that you got to visit your mom. Glad that you rmembered that part with the rest. To see you choose your focus, on abundance.

LA, since I've got your ear, I wanted to thank you for your reminder to do my half of protecting the marriage Trust but verify. I was so resentful about "having" to do that. But I was driving myself nuts, so I gave it a try. And when I did verify, and found that things made sense, it connected me to the other times where I verified and things also made sense. Gave me back some ownership and protection.

My other fear is that I'm not being proactive about H's drinking. Since we're in a calm time, maybe this is the time to negotiate something. It's so unclear where that goes to enmeshment and control. Because I can't imagine negotiating drinking with an unrecovered alcoholic. Even if he's not very symptomatic lately. I didn't marry a man that's willing to consider abstinence. And I'm not at a walk line with this, I think that I could live with this if it stays mild like its been lately. But then I have a fear that it didn't stay mild before.

This is the one part that I don't have a plan for. That's the part I'm not happy with, the not having a plan. i don't have any role models, folks who get along well while dealing with this issue, while the spouse is still drinking.

I feel a lot better. I went back to the Q&A for How to Resolve COnflict, and reread the ones for alcoholic spouses. I do have a plan, my Alanon one <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I was afraid that I was leaving a piece out, not continuing to neogtiate this.

ears, I can't remember if you have kids, so I'm just going to assume you do. I don't know if this will work, but your mention of still time made me think of: Telling him during the still time that, if he will not quit drinking, you are letting him know now, that if he ever becomes unappropriate to your marriage in any way because of the drinking, that you will temporarily 'disassociate' yourself from him and live your own life separately. By that I mean, say you have a kid who has a performance, and he was supposed to go, but he ends up calling from a bar 30 minutes before the show, drunk. At that point, you say, "I'm disassociating from you for tonight because D has a recital and I have to be there for her." Then hang up, and proceed as if you are a single mother, and take care of your kids.

The next day, or whenever, you and H can sit down and discuss what happened - that he got cut off from the family temporarily because of the drinking. No blaming there, just reality. No dragging the kids along for the ride, no readjusting the family because of him. He will either plan better or be left in the dust, in a temporary way.

I hope that makes sense. But if you can make that work, it gives you a position of strength, and lets you turn off the emotions at least a little, so that his drinking is just his problem.

Fortunately, today is going much better than what I copied and pasted. But I am relieved that even on the bad days, i have a plan <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thanks, cat, I have two girls, 11 and 6. This is what we had to do last time. I asked myself, what would I be doing if he wasn't doing this? And then go enjoy whatever it was. Fortunately, we haven't gotten to the point where he's missed school functions. I like how you put that into context.

I look forward to when I can get to where it's a calm conversation like you describe the next day. I'm still using drive-by O&H at those times, because I get heavy-hearted and sad before I get back to acceptance. Like you said yesterday, though, we'll get there!

Good to hear. I think that the most important aspect I was trying to relay in that method is this: If you tell the person ahead of time that this is what you will do, when the drinking does come up again, and they miss an event or you go off and live your lives without him, he was warned. And if he still chose to drink and miss out, he has no one to blame but himself, and you are blameless so he can't use it against you. Like if I tell D17 that she can't go the party Saturday unless her room is cleaned, and it isn't cleaned and she can't go - it's her fault, not mine and she has no basis for argument. And she knows it.

Similarly, if your H blows up at home or whatever drunken behavior he has, incorporate those into the 'contract' as well. 'If you start yelling and I smell alcohol, I will take the girls and go to a movie, or anywhere else I decide, to get away from the drinking. Your choice.'

That's why it's so important to set the rules ahead of time. You don't even have to be judgmental. Just say, "I know you choose to drink, so I'm choosing to tell you that if you do, I will make different choices for our activities, and they may not include you."

Cat, when you say that, I feel nervous just thinking about it, so thanks for identifying a growth area for me <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

You didn't even let me sway you when I went off-topic <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I will look at why I'm scared to say this at first. That happens to me a lot. I work out what I need to say in the car alone, then I'll be okay to share this out loud with him. I think it's because I disagree with him that things are always as calm as they are today.

Could you write it out and hand it to him? Or leave it for him?

fwiw, I am just as fearful of speaking as you, as you know, and I finally DID say something to my H this morning! He was stunned, started getting defensive, and then just said, 'ok.' So if I can do it, anyone can!

I liked that idea, but then we went from calm to stormy, that fast. It's still so wierd to me that I don't see this stuff coming anymore. My sponsor's meeting me, then we're going for a meeting. So glad that I can have a plan and stay calm, regardless of what names I'm being called. Good thing I can recognize that this is not acceptable.

I am so triggered reading on BTE's thread. It was not long ago that I was struggling to make sense of the hurt and anger in my house. We never resolved it. My H didn't apologize or make amends. How? I don't understand. Thankfully, he chooses differently, today, controlling it to words instead. I'm looking forward to when we'll be done with the AOs.

Thanks for sharing about the shared emotional states on your thread. It makes total sense. We totally do that in my FOO, all get frustrated together. I forgot, but Stosny talks about this, too. He calls it attunement. He explains that this is how we can beak the mold and make each other feel better, the same way.