You did good, 213. Just keep being kind without being over bearing or preachy. She is angry and trying to drag you into a fight so she won't have to look at herself. I think you are handling it real well. You are witnessing the death of her affair.

Here is Suzet's thread on what to expect in withdrawal that might be helpful: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...rue#Post2686313

Thanks ML

should I ask her about the meeting with the pastor?
or just see if she will volunteer the info?

I don't see any reason why you couldn't ask.

I really need help here people. I don't get it. Tell me if I am understanding this correctly:

This post/thread is all about how a husband exposed his cheating wife to the wife of the dude she was cheating with? I am pretty sure that is correct. I am new here, and I just want to make sure I am clarifying the lingo correctly.

Will someone fill me in as to why a man should walk on eggshells to please his cheating wife? Will someone explain to me why the cheating wife and husband are allowed to stay in their homes? Also, could someone explain to me why someone would put up with a cheater being mad at them for exposing them? I just do not get it.

People need to have higher self respect. No one deserves to be hurt like this. Their are consequences for negative actions. Unfortunately, the legal punishments do not fit the crimes. Thus, it is our responsibility as a moral society to police our own!

kinger, most marriages that suffer affairs do not end. There is no virtue in kicking a spouse to the curb for having an affair when there are children involved and the marriage can be saved. That is what Marriage Builders is all about. It is for people who CHOOSE to try and save their marriages. It does't mean they "have no self respect."

Please stop ridiculing folks who are here in the depths of he11 trying to save their marriages when you don't know what you are talking about. They have enough to deal with as it is.

Instead, educate yourself about Marriage Builders principles and do something productive around here.

THank you ML.
you took the words out of my mouth.

I apologize for coming across as if I was ridiculing anyone. I reread my post and it does come off that way. I did not intend it that way. I sincerely apologize.

As far as the "self respect" a comment goes, I regret I wrote it in that context. My main concern is that the person who is the victim of infidelity often not only has their heart broken, world shattered, etc., but he also takes the blame for the behavior, which is completely incorrect.

I understand the concepts of marriage builders. Matter of fact, the complete concept is why I am here. I am studying "group think" as a part of my PhD program. "Group think" is a powerful phenomenon, which is never more evident than in this forum.

No one should ever be criticized for doing anything and everything to try and provide the best life for his or her children. If everyone felt this way, there would be no infidelity in this world. I feel so bad for people that have to experience this. No one deserves it.

I hope you accept my sincere apology.

I will probably post again. You may or may not agree with me. I hope you understand that reading what you want to read is not always the best. I hope that you can accept that educated, experienced people have rational, yet opposing views.

I apologize for my tone. It was not in line. I respect your criticism and I will carry it with me if and when I post again.

Of course it is incorrect. He is not responsible for her affair, nor does Marriage Builders ever encourage such irrational blame shifting.



And I think it is evident that you really know very little about Marriage Builders program and are a little too hasty in applying labels whether they make sense or not.


Might I suggest that you take your own advice? After all, Dr Harley *IS* a PhD; and is very experienced and educated. Not only that, he is quite successful and has saved a marriage or two. Perhaps you could learn a thing or two FROM HIS program if you take the time to listen?

K - I certainly welcome educated and experienced views. What education and experience do you have with respect to infidelity?

BS in social psychology
years of study
personal experience

And the "personal experience" has taken precedence over clinical study obviously.

Or he is equating getting cheated on by his high school girlfriend with marital infidelity.

Please keep in mind Marriage Builders is the web site of educated, experienced people, the HARLEY'S, and this forum is to SUPPORT those members attempting to rebuild their marriages.

Hi, Joe...

I thought she shared she had a meeting scheduled...why ask? Are you talking about how the meeting went? I'm confused.

Lead me back.

How are you feeling?

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

LA

Kinger - I'd like to hear more. Rather than continue the threadjack, let's move over to the "To Kinger" thread if you're still up for posting on this forum.

Kinger - I'm going to "tread lightly" here because I lived through what is known around here as the "DustKitty" incident. For those who know about "DustKitty," a group of college students doing "research" for their paper, your opinions and attitudes are not only suspect, they are viewed as "self-serving" and NOT motivated by trying to help someone in need.

I would strongly suggest that if you want someone to comment or provide input for your "research," that you start a thread of your own and CLEARLY state the intent and purpose of what you are "up to" or what you are requesting information about.

For now, I will give you a brief answer to your questions, that should have been obvious, but obviously is not because you only have an "academic" interest and no personal need or "stake" in matter.




Because marriage is a sacred COVENANT, not the cheapened, "animal instinct" sort of thing humanistic society would have us believe (ala Hollywood movies and "stars" actual propensity to marry, and marry, and marry, ...all because "no fault" is a lie to protect the selfish).

So here, as "dumb as it might sound" is the reason so many Betrayed Spouses DON'T do what they "said they would do" before having to confront reality:

"For better or for worse, for richer or for poorer, in sickness and in health, until death do us part."


Adultery IS the "worst" than can happen to someone by someone they love and are "vulnerable" with.

Adultery is the "poorest" that a "love bank" can get, and yet one that the Faithful Spouse will continue to try to make deposits into in the hope that the hemorrhage will end and the account can get out of the [color:"red"]RED[/color] and back into the BLACK.

Adultery is the ultimate in "mental illness" induced by "rationalization," "denial," and "justification" to allow aberrant behavior that is DESTRUCTIVE to all. It is a mental state in the Unfaithful Spouse that is called around here "Alien Abduction" because they behave very much like drug addicts (or rats) scurrying around in the dark trying to keep what they are doing hidden so the "fantasy bubble" doesn't burst and they have to face REALITY.

It is, regardless of one's personal belief, the working out of the "laws of SIN," in the same manner that any physical law can be "ignored" for a time. But then reality eventually "intrudes" and the "effects" of the immutable law is felt. Here is the "law of SIN," in a form that most will have heard and that ALL Wayward Spouses believe, consciously or as part of their self-delusion; "If it feels good, do it." That "lie" began to be so stated in the 1960's as part of the "sexual revolution." It's "kissing cousin" of false beliefs intended to provide self-justification was the concurrent line, "Love means never having to say you are sorry."

Love ALWAYS means having to say you are sorry for things YOU have done that hurt or hinder the marriage and the one you love. The RESPONSE of the Betrayed Spouse is predicated here, not in the delusion of Infidelity. While they both have the "same marital state," usually far from "perfect" or "idyllic," their personal STANDARDS are what directs their responses, at least until SIN causes the blinders to fall into place and the mufflers to be fitted over the ears.

That's enough for now. If you want more "research" for your paper, start your own thread, clearly delineating your objectives and reasons for your questions.

By the way, "Group Therapy" generally sucks, here or anywhere. It is one of the reasons we strongly advocate for Joint Marital Counseling for a couple trying to recover from infidelity.

But this does provide a place for much information and "kindred spirits" who have PRACTICAL, not "academic," interest and experience, who can simply let the person know that they ARE NOT alone or unique in what they are facing.

HI LA

I’m doing much better, for the first time in months I feel at peace with myself,
You know what I mean, when you do the right thing, no matter what happened.But I'm still feeling down sad and scared, I don't know if that makes any sense to you.

All I did is what I should have done when I first found out about the A,
I should have called OMW.

Well now I did.
My situation got worse, my WW hates me; she is blaming me for her humiliation.

She is still very hostile towards me; she is nicer to the kids though.

I didn’t ask her how the meeting went; I would like to know what happened
Though.

She still hates me.
She still blames me for the shame she is enduring, she never took responsibility
For her actions, she always has to be right, so blame others for her bad actions.

213, have you spoken to the OMW today to let her know about this meeting with the pastor?

Your WW is acting according to script. She is very furious at you, but it is for a good reason. You have likely killed this affair and the OM won't return her phone calls.

Thank you for sharing, Joe...

"My situation got worse, my WW hates me; she is blaming me for her humiliation,"

You have only one truth out of three in this sentence Joe...your WW blames you for her humiliation...and you know that is not possible, correct?

The other two truths are judgments you are making; your say believes she hates you...not that she really does...your choice to believe what she believes or not...why choose to believe it?

And your here and now just is...no better or worse...it is...judging harms, Joe. Let that go and you'll find our down, sad and scared a little less...maybe, a lot.

"The meeting with the pastor was not her choice, what happened is she kept trying
To get in touch with OM, or maybe did get in touch with him, his W found out, called the pastor, he called for a meeting, with WW."

What happened with the meeting with all of you? Wasn't that scheduled?

"She is still very hostile towards me; she is nicer to the kids though." You observe hostility or rejection? Attack or punishment? Why are you looking at her and not at you? Steady as you go, Joe...

"I didn’t ask her how the meeting went; I would like to know what happened
Though." Why not call the pastor?

"She still hates me." Do not state this as a truth--it is not...you state this like a fact, in your mind, your thoughts...and it stabs you...please stop. She still believes she hates you. That is truth.

"She still blames me for the shame she is enduring, she never took responsibility
For her actions, she always has to be right, so blame others for her bad actions."

Here is where you stabbing at yourself then stabs others...even from our thoughts, we stab others...she is experiencing shame...and she may have experienced it all her life...I doubt that she has NEVER taken responsibility for her actions...I believe she took responsibility for choosing and marrying you, for having children, for a lot of things...go for clarity, Joe, not solution...be just within yourself and not lured into reactive thinking from your fear.

Takes two for blame to exist, Joe. You were half of the blaming party in your marriage...accepting blame nourishes it as much as giving it. You no longer accept blame, correct? You know that ownership is healthy and blame is damning...you get busy owning that you are full of judgments and expectations...do you feel safer, less fearful, when you say always or never? Feel more right or righteous? Can always or never really be the truth...or even, your truth?

I am not attacking you and telling you you're wrong...I'm asking you to look at how you create resentment, what's your payoff, and to know you are sowing the seeds of bitterness and despair...instead of spitting them out and not allowing them to take root. If you choose to judge, you will not have clarity...you will not understand reality...

That's how I know you're doing better and feeling down, sad and scared...we DJ this way from fear; and you're making a lot of progress in learning to live from love...

Give yourself permission to ask...and revoke your permission to expect...it is a loving act for yourself.

Thank you for updating, posting and sharing.

LA

Thank you LA.

You are right, I use a lot s of harsh words, I still take them as the truth, and it is her truth
May be she does think that she hates me.

I don’t think I hold resentment for her, I still love her with all my heart, I wish I could
Show her the addiction she is in may be she would understand.


I’m still taking responsibility for my part for the state of our marriage and I keep apologizing
For it every time we talk.

But I made it clear that I don’t regret telling OMW.
And That the A is causing her all the humiliation and the agony.

I try to stay away from her these days, while trying to spend some time with the kids too.
It’s a tough act to balance.

She still looks good when she ‘s angry though.
She looks good when she gets out of bed in the morning.
I don’t know why I said that.
Maybe trying to calm myself down a bit.
Sometime I wish I didn’t love her it would be easier, don’t you think?

Any way, should I keep avoiding talking to her for now, give her some time to heel?
I was going to print Suzet's thread on what to expect in withdrawal.
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...rue#Post2686313

And give her a copy.
Is it to early now, or it’s a good idea?

I will post when I find out when went on with the pastor’s meeting.