I love LA's reference to "pain-time". I am living that right now. But boy does it ever help to find that calm in the center of the storm.
--d2m3b.

i just added some more to my last post.

Good evening, Joe,

Do you know where the urge to write to your WW is coming from?

From your urge to share...because you are avoiding talking to her...and that's okay, as long as you know why.

Building your trust in yourself is important. Starts simple, nowhere near easy. Know this. You could make a goal of sharing one line, outloud, simply stated, from your letter...not reading, stating...inserted within the day, and then make it two...you'll find this practice like a birth for you...opening in words what you've had inside you all your life...

You're sharing your life with us...in written form. It is still sharing...the difference is fear...we do not fear reading you...who you are...your WW does...and written words can be distorted, misunderstood and they are easier to filter in our minds...it's called reading between the lines...and we do that with body language, tone and facial expressions, too...until we train ourselves not to...

Written words can be more powerful, as well, like a vow, an oath, a commitment...in writing. Look inside and see if your desire comes from this...where you view written statements as more truthful.

Knowing this inside you may aid you in opening your verbal communication...to know why we have the desire is as important as knowing we have it...

I believe you have become much safer to be shared with and to share with yourself...this is peace in the eye of the storm...that separateness...knowing you are not causing her tears and her anger...helps greatly...living in truth, does.

Her anger still repels you, though...and I would like to encourage you to stay present and to not believe she is angry unless she states she is angry. Anger comes from fear...and it touches our own fear to be around it...even when we know we are not the cause...because we have struggled all our lives to be the cure to it in ourselves and others. Staying present with an angry person--THE angry person will help you feel your fear, know it, hold it and maybe for the first time, understand it...find out if it triggers disapproval, rejection, frustration, inadequacy, rebellion...what inside you speaks back to anger without words?

You don't have to follow her around...staying present for ten minutes...again, maybe twenty...for you. You doing this for you...to know more about you...can you do that?

And no...your boundaries are the same as your standards...you no longer allow yourself to yell, insult or DJ...so you must enforce these boundaries when she yells, insults or DJs...

How can you enforce a boundary when you avoid? Your presence matters...you ripple...even as she does...so if your first boundary enforcement is to state, "I very much desire to hear your thoughts, WW. I cannot do so when you yell. If you continue to raise your voice, I will remove myself from this room." Lovingly stated, even whispered.

This is healthy for your children to see and know...we don't damage our children from yelling--we damage them from reacting to yelling by yelling, withdrawing, brooding, sniping, SDs and our own AOs...when we stand by our boundaries, calmly, firmly and respectfully, we are demonstrating our human power...and limits...and choice.

This goes with your Lebanon experience growing up...seemed like the attack was where the fear was...if there wasn't the danger then there wouldn't be the fear...yet, it was having to defend, be alert, wary, daily fearful and still live that damaged the most...because there couldn't be that respectful response...no one could show you the right way to be...you only had one way...it's what war does...like in marriage...when we reach for the weapon of last defense...and overlook all the available choices inbetween.

Wow...I got really off, didn't I? I feel honored to know you and to hear your journey, be here with you, along with so many others praying and pulling for you. You're sharing well and true...know this...see if this ebullience, to include your WW in your experience comes from all this newness in you...which really isn't new...it is you without judgment...and that changing everything.

She will be there for you to share fully with...just not now...withdrawal is difficult...like a reckoning...know how you felt when you learned the way you had been, thinking more about how to make the marriage fair, maybe get more of what you wanted for you, instead of the marriage...you felt a little wrecked, shocked...upset with yourself? You started looking at your part...because you had a great desire to save your marriage...

And she is now coming into the time of losing the drug she's been using...and a slow realization of her power...to destroy...to wreck, shock...which greatly increases her desire for the drug...it is a slow reckoning and a terribly painful one...and what does she have for her carrot? Nothing. The more reality seeps in, the greater her expectation will grow that there is no way for her amend, repair or erase the damage...she believes love is earned, as well as punishment, so she'll see staying in the marriage as punishing...which is coming from her, inside...so she will have her reckoning without a reward in sight...and your choice to stay, to love, to rebuild, will be so blinding, it will hurt...know this, when the days drag, and your pain jumps up and settles down...what's she's going to do to go from wayward to faithful is a journey worth being around for...enduring because she will do it for redemption...for herself, you, the marriage and her family...it's a hard journey, Joe.

Continue to thank her for sharing...without LBs, 'k? Get safer and safer...know when you are giving her permission to share, in your mind, because you do not have that right...and hold to what you already know, it's an honor to be shared with...even when it hurts...and it hurts better (BRILLIANT wording).

These are the same questions from last weekend, Joe...about what to do this weekend...what did you think of my last suggestions, the ones from last weekend?

Maybe MDC, Dru or Pep can think of some others...you know my intent...for you to learn that your presence matters...not that I want you to suffer...but to flourish, even where others have strong emotions...you matter.

Trust her to know your S was shocked and your DD was upset...you believe she does not see...she does not know because she does not DO...change that belief. Respect is knowing she is as capable as you are...knowing, seeing...what she chooses to shut out will be shut out...do not attempt to show her...which tells her she's defective, missing stuff, not smart or capable...and it will echo what she hears in her head, over and over again. Do not participate in that.

All those books you got...change your priority to Between Parent and Child...focus on that one...because you're safe and your children are looking to you to teach them...not your wife...and your wife will learn as you teach them...or not. Her choice.

In your corner,

LA

Earlier, you asked about whether you should have some IC for yourself or whether the two of you neede joint counseling.

I will give you my analogy - - -

A marriage is somewhat like a car. If it is broken, it may be helped by a mechanic (counselor). There are some parts that are not working properly. If all the mechanic has to work with are broken parts, s/he can not fix the car. The parts must be in good working order before the car can be in good working order.

Do you follow me on that?

Good morning LA

Quote:
“I feel honored to know you and to hear your journey”

No LA I’m the honored, and the blessed one to have found MB and to share
My pain with such wonderful people, I have been humbled by this experience
In my life, I always thought that I was invincible, but whom am I kidding here,
I’m human after all; I cry like everybody else, I bleed like everybody else.
And I always believed that “ sharing happiness is double the joy, and sharing pain is half the sorrow”.

I printed your last reply, you are an angel, and you always know what to say
To make people feel good, and stating is what I meant about reading the letter for her.
There are a lot of things I want to tell her, but like everybody says patience is a virtue.

I still don’t know if NC is fully on OM friend called me yesterday and stated that
OM is on a leave of absence from school, and that his MC did advise him with NC,
Which is good news because my WW, is so fogged up I know she is trying to establish
Contact, I can’t do anything about that, since she doesn’t want to work on the marriage, she just wants out for now.

Actually she wants me out, which I told her this is not going to happen, and I’m
Sticking with it.

Quote:
“Because you are avoiding talking to her”

I’m avoiding talking to her because she doesn’t want to talk to me she wants me out of the house; she already stated that, this is why I’m trying to give her some space.
This weekend I will catch up on some work needed on the house, so this will be a good thing.

Quote:
“Trust her to know your S was shocked and your DD was upset”

I do trust her with that she knew this was hurtful for the kids.

Quote:
Wow...I got really off, didn't I?

No you didn’t I always like you’re replies you are an angel, I learned a lot from you
You are a great person. And it’s an honor getting help from you.


Cinderella:
My daughter’s favorite princess.
Thank you for the tip, it’s weird that you bring this analogy. I told my wife last week,
That marriage is like a car some people hear a noise and fix it right away
Before something brakes, others don’t pay attention to it until it breaks,
Well it’s broken we can chose to fix it or get rid of it.
We learned a lot from this we can take what we learned and go find 2 strangers
To apply it on, or we can put everything behind us and start fresh and apply it
On our self.
I don’t know if anything went through her fog, but I had to try.

Thank you Cinderella, we are on the same wave, you are great.

UPDATE TO MY PRIOR POST.

Sunday I took my son to an air show she wasn’t to thrilled about that.
But she didn’t want to go either; we had a great time he got to go on a b25 bomber
And sit in the front gunner seat; he got to go on a half-track quad 50-caliber gun turret.
He got to see the f22 raptor in flight.
But it wasn’t the same without my WW.

When I got home she was in her silent bad mood again, I downloaded the pictures on my
Pc and asked her if she wanted to look at them, she said NO.

She was putting DD cloth away, I got close to her and whispered, and it wasn’t the same without you.
She said rudely I don’t know what to say.
I asked her if she was ok without me around, she nodded her head with a yes gesture,
I replied I don’t think so you did miss S.

Then I told her that all I’m trying to do is keep my family together, if this is wrong
Then I don’t want to be right, and if loving my wife no matter what she does is wrong,
I don’t want be right either.

And that I do love her and I will never leave her, and if she wants to leave I can’t stop her.

She said “ I can’t trust you anymore and I didn’t hate you before you went and told his wife, I know what I did was wrong, and you should be the one feeling this way, but this is the way I feel”

I told her who said that I trust you right now, because I don’t, I said that I care for you.
And trust could be rebuilt.
An no matter what happens between us you should know that I’m the only constant thing
In your life and I will take care of you either way.
And who knows a few years from now you might thank me for staying, or you will
Regret, leaving me.

Then I asked her: did you think he was going to leave his family for you?

WW:
I never expected him to leave his family for me.

I should have said something their but I was shocked with her answer so I just stood their.
I remembered LH’s words don’t try to reason with her.
Her answer didn’t make any sense to me, I’m sure it did to her though…
At least she is admitting that what she did was wrong.

Then I told her that what she said that night did not hurt me, she said I wasn’t meaning to hurt you I was just telling you how I felt.

I said: I respect that. And feel free to vent your feelings any time you like, I will always listen.

Then I said you know I loved you for what you used to do for me and this was the wrong way to love, it was more judging then loving, and I’m sorry for that, now I know better, I’ve grown a lot since this happened, I learned now that I love you for who you are, and it feels better, it even feels good when it hurts, it just feels right.

And WW I don’t hate you… I’m sorry you feel this way, I know you feel like it’s the end of the world, I was their a few month ago, it will get better, stay strong and keep your head up high, you have 2 kids to take care of.

And do you really think I’m ugly?
She said no I didn’t mean it this way.
Then she started crying and said, “ I don’t want to talk anymore, not about ugliness”
I said I’m sorry I was talking about myself.
(It’s a sore subject to her she thinks she is ugly and OM is the only person that told her she was beautiful and she believed him)
I shouldn’t have gone there but I was talking about myself. Oh well.

I said a few more things I shouldn’t have said.
Like I know why the A started, I know how it started, I know how it should
End, and I know how to rebuild.
And it won’t be easy.

should I tell my WW that for OMW she is the OW
and they want her out of their life and they want NC
according to the MC.
and that the sooner she realises that this is over
the sooner she is going to heal?

or just save my breath for now?


I don’t know if this is a good idea or not, but I ordered 2 books on BDD.
Which is the Body dimorphic disorder my wife suffers from.
I will read it and offer it for her, even though she claims that she knows
Everything about BDD.

Any comment is appreciated.

Hey, Joe...

Thank you for the update. Can you allow your WW to own her own stuff? Her BDD is hers...you can't cause, control or cure it. It's hers.

She has a payoff in seeing herself in that way...it isn't an illness without a benefit...

Her BDD did not cause her affair. Please respect she makes her choices...for her own reasons.

Instead of asking questions, Joe, try stating what is yours...and owning it. "I believe you see me as ugly. I feel replaced and erased. I believe I am defective." If that is what you're saying by asking if she see's you as ugly, then own it. It's yours. Not hers. Who you are, what you look like to yourself is what matters...not to others. We're all equal...beauty remains...God made us beautiful souls...without judgment, without comparison...which is false security...we're all the same, aren't we?

There is a reason our souls can't be seen at first glance...so they cannot be falsely judged by packaging.

Your posts are full of shoulds, Joe...how about banning that word from your life for a week? Don't should on yourself...choose differently.

There's no ownership in shoulds or have tos...they eliminate choice. What you are choosing to do or not is up to you. If you want to know a should, ask yourself...if I do or say this, am I being honest? Am I sharing or manipulating to get a desired reaction? There's no respect in the second alternative, is there?

When you eliminate shoulds from your vocabulary, inside your head and your mouth...then you'll stop thinking of how your WW should be...how others should be and what they have to do...because you don't allow yourself to judge that way; falsely control that way and self-deceive.

Do not treat your WW as a child...she is your equal and your partner...as capable, whole and complete as you are. Respect is knowing that. No educating, informing or getting her to see life your way will protect you from the truth that you are not protected. She's separate and equal, Joe...listen and repeat. Demonstrate respect for her by knowing she's separate from you...and respect for yourself in knowing you're not her cure. Cause. Or control.

You can do this. Listen and repeat. Stay present. How's the choice to be in the presence of anger going?

LA

Thank you LA

I thought I’d buy the book to learn more about her condition, so I can see her point of view, because this is very important to her, and it was part of what caused the A.
She stated that yesterday after she asked me why did I by that book.

She said that her condition was gone when she was having the A, now she feels ugly,
All over again.

I said I respect your honesty, but I don’t think the A made it go away, I believe
You made it go away, I read some of the book and I know how much you’re hurting
I know that some people can’t leave the house, because of this disease,
It’s like any other illness some people have it worse then others,
It doesn’t mean that it makes it easier to treat, but you need to know that it’s
Curable and that there is some different options to cure it, and if I can help 1%
By reading this book and knowing what I can do to help, then it’s fine with me.

I believe you told me that you hated me that night, is that still you’re truth?
Yes she whispered.
I respect your honesty, and I don’t hate you for that, but I can’t help you either
It’s you’re feelings and you’re choice.

I’m not doing this so you don’t hate me, I’m doing this so I don’t hate me.

You are still my wife and I don’t want you looking down look up and keep
You’re chin up.

I don’t have any reason to keep my chin up anymore. She said.
Yes you do you are an awesome person, and a great mother, the kids are looking up to
You and they are learning from us.
I can’t imagine any one raising them except you and me.

I am at peace with myself right now but I’m terrified.
She said why?
Because I feel that I’m no longer in control of my future, and I hate it.
A few month ago I felt like it was the end of the world for me, I felt betrayed,
Stabbed in the back, angry, I didn’t want to live anymore.
I feel better now; I got my self-respect back.
I hope you will feel better to.
Ww, you stated yesterday that you didn’t trust me, I understand there is more then one concern that you have I’m going to give reassurance for at least one of them that I know about, and I did give her a solid way to trust me on this one.
Then I asked her to listen to her heart and trust me, and if she wanted to vent I’m here
For her, she nodded her head with a yes gesture. I have a feeling that something is getting through, her fog; maybe it’s wishful thinking. But she is getting calmer and a little more open.
I always feel at peace when I talk to her, but may be I should talk less, and say more.
I’m doing more though.

LA I know exactly what you mean by should.
I understand I’ve always been this way, I’ve always did what I should do, sometimes it’s what I want to do, sometime it’s not.

But what if what I want to do is not the right thing to do?
How to chose, how to tell?
Am I confused enough?
I just thought of something
Could it be that us BS are in a fog to?
I think we are.

I used to call her a couple of times a day to see how is she doing.
She said she feels like I’m checking on her.
I wasn’t I called her because I wanted to, I called her because I wanted to hear her voice.
I called her because she is always nicer to talk to over the phone.

I still want to call her but I don’t anymore, should I?

Oh, JOE! I'm LOL'ing...about the way you ended your post in a should...

LOL...not laughing at you at all...your honesty is right there...you are brave...you do ask for what you want an answer to...

I don't DO shoulds...Why are you not calling her anymore? Because she said she feels checked up on? That's her feeling, isn't it? Her belief? You respect that and call anyway, in my book...because you know your intent...which is pure...you love her voice, it's your way to connect...she's on your mind and you reach for the phone. That's your truth. Living by your truth is important.

Is it a love buster to call? If your WW wasn't in an affair or withdrawal, would this be a love buster? Is it only twice a day or ten?

I would use those twice a day calls to up your honesty..."Hi. I'm calling because I was thinking of you and that time we went to ____. I loved that trip."

"Hi. I'm calling because your voice sounds like love to me; I have it in my heart and I like it in my ear."

Okay, I'm mushy...you get the idea. You aren't arguing with her...you are stating your truth. "I hear you believe I'm checking up on you." Just restate...no argument. You know your intent; trust you.

Here is where you argue, which negates her:

"You are still my wife and I don’t want you looking down look up and keep You’re chin up."

You are telling her what you want for HER...no domain, Joe. No still, either. Were you trying to convey you acknowledge her anger, frustration and depression? Then state that. "I believe you are anger, frustrated and depressed, is that correct?"

She says:
"I don’t have any reason to keep my chin up anymore. She said."

And you argue, negate her statement, instead of listen and repeat...You say:

"Yes you do you are an awesome person, and a great mother, the kids are looking up to You and they are learning from us."

Simply show respect, Joe. "I hear you choose to believe you have no reason to be proud of yourself, to hold your chin up, is that correct?"

Again, I know you want to share, to comfort, console, lift up, CONTROL your WW. Please don't do that. It's abusive. Your intent is to know she is in charge of her stuff...her feelings are valid to her...respect them. Same with her beliefs.

If she says, "I don't think we can make it." Listen and repeat. No argument. That's her stuff, not yours...you're not her cure, Joe. She is.

"I believe with all my heart we can have a better marriage than before. I agree to disagree." And smile. It's true.

I don't know about BS fog...read about it here...I don't think I had it...but then, how would I know? I know it was very difficult to stop being the cure to others, to be respectful, to own only what is mine...and it saved my marriage. I know this as a fact, Joe. I know by trying to change my H's feelings...telling him not to feel what he felt, think what he thought or believe what he believed, I was abusing my partner.

You said some awesome stuff, Joe. I'm not taking that away from you at all...Remember what you've already said and do not repeat. There are only a couple of mantras to know. Restating your goal "I don't do divorce, I do marriage." "Continued you contact is continuing your affair."

I can't think of others. I cut out the ILYs which were difficult because they were part of my routine...rhythmically said...Since I made my love a burden on my H's shoulders...his responsiblity, I stopped saying this unless I could state it as mine...my choice.

So, without the should...what is your choice, Joe? What's your truth? When you have a should, distinguish if it is the old you, wondering how she will react, or if it is the respectful you, choosing from your standards...then you'll have your answer. And it is yours. No shoulds involved...doing the right thing is holding to your code...and if you love hearing her voice, love hearing your own...sing in the shower, whisper words of encouragement and validation to yourself...I used to take a deep breath and say, "I am."

This helped immensely with feeling replaced, erased or not of consequence. Aided me in knowing I count, without a word spoken or an action taken.

You are thriving in self, Joe. You are loving by choice. Giving time for withdrawal to continue...becoming safe to be shared with...

LA

HI everybody

Things might be getting a hair calmer, maybe a little better.
I’m not sure about NC established yet.
I know no cell phone contact no e-mail. But this doesn’t mean anything.

I know all of OM friends including the church know, and OMW is keeping an eye
On him.

Yesterday I gave her the solid guarantee for one of her worries about me doing something, and I asked her if she have any other worries I would find a way to guarantee
Those won’t happen, she only needs to tell me about them.

Then I repeated to her that I’m not doing this so she doesn’t hate me,
I’m doing it so I don’t hate me.

Then I asked her if she believes that I still care for her, with tears in her eyes she answered in a whispering voice, “yes”.
I told her this is all that matters now. And I left the room and went on my computer.

She came a little later to show me DD’s memory book that my WW put together
Page by page for the whole class, she made 25 binders 3” thick each, page by page.
I told her wow this was a lot of work, baby you should be proud of yourself,
I am proud of you for doing this when you didn’t have to, especially when you weren’t paid for it.

Now I keep asking myself.

Why did she cry?
Why do I feel good when she cries?
If I love her that much wouldn’t I be feeling bad?
What to do next?
Tell her more about my feelings?
I found out that the best clinic for her BDD in the west coast is about 25 miles from us.
I don’t want to tell her what to do but I need to give her the info.
I will take it slowly from now on.
I need to tell her that OM family want NC and that I would like her to respect that.
And it will be good for her if she want to move on with her life, since OM is willing
For his own reasons to stay with his family, either for the kids or for his marriage.
And the sooner NC is established the sooner she will begin to heal.

Because of "heartpain."

Because "plan A" behavior is beginning to have an effect.

Because her self image has taken a huge beating and your kind words are felt more deeply than they might be when "all is well." They are a "window" into the heart of the real you, not the tough "Man's Man" guys like to project.

Because you love her, not just like or lust after her.

Stay the course. You're doing well.

Thanks FH

like your love island storry.

"Now I keep asking myself."

I'm more interested in the answers you give yourself.

LA

I’m sorry LA good point

I will try to answer.

Why did she cry?
Either she misses OM or she is feeling guilty about her attitude towards me.

Why do I feel good when she cries?

I think I feel more in control when I see her tears, maybe because I want her
To show me her emotions, I do miss looking into her heart.

If I love her that much wouldn’t I be feeling bad?
I don’t have an answer for that but I’m sure that I do love her.

What to do next?
I don’t know; maybe keep doing what I’m doing.

Tell her more about my feelings?
I would love to but I don’t think she is ready to hear it yet.

Sorry for butting in here, but I had to say that IMO, you feel good when she cries because there may be a chance she is crying because she feels bad for what she has done,or that she wants things back to normal, etc... Ofcourse that would make you feel good. It probabaly gives you hope to see her cry.
I've been following your post, and praying for both of you, and it makes ME feel good when you tell us that she cried. It gives me hope for both of you.
Someone once told my H when he stated that he hated to see me cry, that he should get worried when I stopped crying.....I understood that statement.

PS- I think it is awesome that she showed you her project. That was a breakthrough. She was proud of herself- and wanted you to be proud of her as well. Your hard work seems to be moving you guys in the right direction.

Now I will let the pros get back to work here........ <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Thanks RW you are a sweetheart.

top

Hey, Joe...how are you this morning?

Thank you for supplying those answers from your thoughts. FH and RW knew exactly where you were coming from...because they've been there...

From your answers to your self...where did those answers come from...fear or love?

"Why did she cry?
Either she misses OM or she is feeling guilty about her attitude towards me."

I understand you want to know why she cries...sounds like it is from your fear that you want to know why...pin it down and either take hope or shelter from any answer you get...so you jump to two possible ones...how is this respectful self-care? One DJ hurts you and the other helps you, eases you...see how we self-comfort from DJ's? We think we're not DJing by asking these questions...questions are respectful when they are to others, without assumption or mindreading...you're doing what I did at first, trying on the respect/separate/equal thing...I told myself I was asking, so that's respectful...when I wasn't asking HIM...questions in our own minds are the DJs come from...

And when I caught this and only began asking WH, then I had to be open to not knowing...asking didn't pin it down for me, either...I had to understand I was coming from fear, not love...

"Why do I feel good when she cries?

I think I feel more in control when I see her tears, maybe because I want her to show me her emotions, I do miss looking into her heart." Feeling good (relieved? Connected? Less fearful? What is "good" to you?) from feeling more in control...this is brilliant insight, Joe. You feel less fearful when you know what's going on in her...the very knowledge eases you...so you're fearing the unknown...and boy, doesn't A's reek of that fear all over?

Remember reality...you are no more and no less in control when you are invited in or closed out...your human control ends with you...always has and will...this is the influence you're detecting...her shutting out your influence...her tears maybe allowing it in...her choice. Still not in your control.

Good distraction from wanting into her is flipping stuff over...you want your influence (attention, consideration, acceptance) to be allowed into her...flipping that over to you...through your constant thought-train on her, are you paying attention, giving consideration and acceptance to you? Are you allowing your own influence?

"If I love her that much wouldn’t I be feeling bad?
I don’t have an answer for that but I’m sure that I do love her." Questioning your love is a mirror of questioning hers. Standard in A's...if you love me, how could you do this to me? It comes from believing love is a level we reach, from earning...only feeling safe and loved when others earn ours back...terrible, untrue cycle...so know that you may not feel bad because you now know you are choosing to love...she doesn't earn it, nor punishment...she isn't taking anything away from you, reducing you, by her choices. She isn't. Because you are changing your belief.

"What to do next?
I don’t know; maybe keep doing what I’m doing."

Look at how much you believe action is necessary...you have a lot of security in your choice of actions, strength in them...and they cannot save you entirely...know you have as much power in being as doing...being present, looking inward, knowing you're authentic and real...maybe your instant desire to do will ease a little when you accept this balance...being is as important as doing...we have leftover reactions from the beliefs we replace...automatic responses and urges, coming from something we no longer subscribe to...see if this is one of those...you have to be doing, constantly, when you earn love, don't you?

Know your presence and how much it matters...everywhere. Know you acting from your truth and not reacting is going to feel a little mixed up...before you begin to trust yourself to be, to know...not just to do.

Breathe, Joe. Bring your questions/answers/thoughts...all of you here...

When you crave most to know what WW is thinking/feeling/believing, use that craving to state what YOU'RE thinking, feeling and believing, 'k?

Guess you could say I flipped in Plan A, huh?

(((()))))

LA

Tell her more about my feelings?
I would love to but I don’t think she is ready to hear it yet.

Hi LA I’m a little down today.

I have a gut feeling that NC is not on yet but I have no way of knowing.
I’m sure of no physical contact, but I think they are communicating somehow.

“From your answers to your self...where did those answers come from...fear or love?”

From both LA.

I’m afraid contact is still on so she is not in withdrawal yet.
And from love because if I didn’t love her why would I care?

By the way she can hurt me with the guaranty items I gave her, but it’s a small
Price to pay for gaining her trust back.

“Feeling good (relieved? Connected? Less fearful?”

I guess is less fearful and somehow connected.

I’m getting to the point where I know that my love is real because no matter
How her reactions and her actions are I’m still staying the course, and I still
Feel love towards her.

And I think this is where my fear is coming from, I’m terrified of losing her
Knowing that we could make this marriage better.

I am committed to that.

Thank you for your reply.

Staying the course...

Your fear of loss will grow the more you allow yourself to dwell in a future (be it a day, a week or years) that hasn't arrived yet. Know your reality when you want to jump forward...

She is present. Contact or no, she hasn't left or filed for divorce. She is present. That matters. That's her choice.

Doesn't sound like much at times...didn't to me...until I really got that presence was choice.

As for contact...what do you have in place to monitor that?

One of the ways I felt less and less fearful was knowing I had no control...that I wasn't causing it...realizing, I never had...sounds like more fear, yet, it wasn't.

Are you feeling a little down as in sadness or disappointment? Were you expecting more right now, to be somewhere further from your future thoughts, or are you having moments when you are wishing none of this had happened?

And I've forgotten...are you two beginning MC soon?

LA