Glad to see you supporting those of us who believe in no test, no sex. You are absolutely right on about STD's. I believe Neak and her husband have done the testing.

Gawd-I hope so.

Again, that hotel scene really freaked me out.


(((Shudder)))

Apparently one person's inspiration is another's precaution. I guess each one has to choose which it will be.

t&l

It is your personal assumption that this is what she has done. Perhaps if you hadn't quit reading at the sordid motel stuff, you'd have a better idea of what actually went on, and why the marriage survived.


And the reason you know that they have not worked "together to solidify their marriage" is, precisely?

t&l

{{{{B}}}} Sure, I got tested first thing, and passed the second test also. Thanks for stopping in, and Mom too. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

SB, as I'm sure you have seen from reading here, you most certainly do not want your marriage at any cost. Continuing marriage to a WS over the long term will destroy you. That is the beauty of Plans A & B. By following them according to the way Dr. Harley has laid it out, when you finish you will either be poised for a stunning recovery of your marriage, or a stunning recovery of yourself, alone.

The marital recovery is more likely, but even though that does not always happen, personal recovery is possible 100% of the time.

Oh, and for clarity's sake, after re-reading my earlier post, I could see that it did sound a little good-byeish. I was merely intending to convey a finality on the subject, not farewell forever. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> So don't worry, I'll stick around for as long as you feel it's helpful.

My story is, for the most part, pretty standard around here. While there might have been a few deviations from the standard script, there are many many worse stories that still have had happy endings.

A large number of the unhappy endings are those who were willing to permanently settle for crumbs. Because that is all they asked for, that is all they got.

Steve Harley says one of the main causes for failed recoveries is the lack of a plan for recovery. It's not too soon to start looking into that, and deciding what you will need from her if the two of you are to recover. It IS too soon to talk to her about it, beyond mentioning that NC is essential to your future happiness as a couple. (And even that should not be too often or you will come across as nagging. Only say it if the subject comes up anyway.)

On that subject, kinda, while I think it is good that you chat with her, online or IRL, about the Bible studies, just be cautious not to come across too strong. I am surprised to hear that she is open to this at all, under the circumstances. That is a huge added blessing, but just be careful not to be too pushy, as until she is committed to NC and wants her integrity back, she will not be as open to spiritual things. (That's another of those little things to look for - when you see her throw herself whole-heartedly back into her relationship with God, that will be a good indicator of progress.)

I'm glad you had a chance to meet my mom - she's a character, all right! Drop in and chat any time you like on the feminine hygiene products aisle. We have men there too, like Still Seeking, and are occasionally honored by a visit from Aussie2, one of your Australian brothers-in-arms. In fact, only today he stopped in just as we were plotting how to best disable him so he couldn't be deployed again. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Once your wife is in recovery, Aussie's wife, (oddly enough named Aussieswife) would be a very good friend for her. She cheated on Aussie while he was deployed, and you could not imagine a more loving or faithful wife now. Right now he is home, so we hear from her mum much more than from her, but when he is gone, she helps keeping the loneliness at bay by chatting with all of us. (They are several years into recovery, and completely in love with each other.)

Lots of interesting people here for you to meet with time. Under the circumstances, you really could not be in a better place.

My understanding is that this forum is not for arguing amongst ourselves when one person reveals their honest emotions / perceptions about something that was said.

And no-I couldn't move past the hotel motel panty planting etc.

And I cannot fathom why your daughter is under the impression that a "surviving" marriage is a desireable ideal.

The fact that you have to chime in to "defend" means that you KNOW something is wrong.

SB, I was under the impression that you were looking for marriage building help, not trying to place yourself in the middle of a cat fight. I'd like to contribute to your gaining the help that you seek by unilaterally withdrawing from all this hissing and spitting and letting your thread revert to its original purpose.

My daughter needs no defense from me, certainly not to those who don't know what they think they know, and care even less than they know, which I've already said is less than they think. SB, you carry on, and best of success to you. I hope you "fail" as well as Neak and her husband have, and are too happy, in the end, to know that you're really a miserable failure! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> But maybe if you're lucky, someone will show up around then to let you know the "truth." And then everything will be fine. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

t&l

I learned in the past two years more than ever that this is no small thing. Do not underestimate God. He is able to restore all things, heal the broken, and make what was so wrong right.

Genesis 50:20 As far as I am concerned, God turned into good what you meant for evil.

James 5:13 Are any among you suffering? They should keep on praying about it. And those who have reason to be thankful should continually sing praises to the Lord.

James 5:16b The earnest prayer of a righteous person has great power and wonderful results.

I firmly believe that praying is the most important thing I did during this whole ordeal.

I asked for God's guidance and received it, He led me through just the experiences I needed to come out changed, refined in the furnace, and empowered, and I daily lifted up my husband in prayer.

You will learn so much about God as you go through this, things you could have learned no other way.

Mrs. S, thanks for the verses. They are a good reminder to all of us. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thank you, MrsStowaway for reminding me of that verse...

Where God intended for good what you intended for evil.

I read that during my Plan A and kept it close to my heart.

Like Neak and you said...a great deal of good was in a very dark, painful time.

LA

My Goodness. Where is your dog in this fight? WHat is YOUR story? Have you been affected by infidelity? Are you a troll? Are you posting under a new screen name Kinger?

Why do you have such an issue with someone who values marriage? who wants to stand against the great evil of infidelity and beat it because they love their husband and care about their family.

I don't get it.

Good for you neak.

DANG BigK, that was gonna be MY line, course, OBVIOUSLY I was gonna spell DAWG in the correct, South'ren, genteel manner-LOL... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

CS...Step off!!! Neak is one AWESOME lady, with EXCELLENT advice to give...I just don't understand, why her? She is perhaps one of the sweetest MB members that I know...I don't get it...I smell something REALLY yucky here...

If you have something constructive or helpful to say, then do so...You said what you had to regarding STD's...That has now been officially ASKED and ANSWERED...If you need help with a situation, then ask...You did see the sign on the door here, right? It says MARRIAGE BUILDERS...If you've got something that pertains to the goal of Marriage Building, great, welcome...

In the alternative, should you just be feeling froggy and ready to jump, I AM AVAILABLE...Let's hop to it...Start a thread and call me out if you'd like...I am a FORMER WAYWARD SPOUSE, that should raise your hackles...(it does mine) I'll answer any question and/or take any shot ya got...BRING IT!!!

Mrs. W

P.S. Sorry for the threadjack folks...back to your regular scheduled marriage building

P.P.S. As a FWW, I can tell you that Neak's assessment of waywards here is SPOT ON!!! Listen to her...

There are many FBS here who have recovered their marriages...actually rebuilt their marriages from the ground up into what marriage SHOULD be. Some of them, besides Neak, have posted on this thread. So why the ridiculing of Neak for fighting to save her marriage?

Her FWH occasionally posts on the Feminine Products Aisle, and it is quite obvious that he absolutely adores Neak. He knows that he very nearly lost her, and he has done/is doing everthing required to rebuild their marriage.

Yes, there ARE some WS who never "get it". That is because of their own issues.

And, yes, there are OP who also seem to never "get it" and are harder to get rid of. The OP in Neak's life seems to be one of those, although she tries to be sneakier than most. Because of Neak's FWH's recommittment to her and their marrige, that OP is failing miserably. I imagine this FACT is causing her throat to close up and choke off the oxygen to what little brain she has left. Perhaps she needs some "Get a Life" mouthwash so she can GARGLE and thus kill some of that affair crap she has apparently swallowed.

CS, look around. Read the success stories. Mrs. Wondering and her H are a success story. Mrs. Stowaway is a success story. Even most of those who did not recover their marriages are success stories, because they will be successful in their future relaionships because of what they have learned from MB and put into practice in their own lives.

Neak managed to put an end to her FWH's affair quicker than most, probably because her FWH NEVER stopped loving her. So, why do you apparently find Neak's story more repulsive than any of the others?

T&L,



Thank you. That would be nice. Internet has been down here and commo has been a real PIA. I think God wants me to spend more time with him. Especially since MSA left me verses to focus on and a reminder that prayer is no small thing... it's the only thing.

You remind me of my mom. I'm glad you are here. I could use a nuke wielding woman in my life from time to time and I'm not sure I want to open my mom up to this thread just yet... I know she's packin' thermonuclear heat. I pray that this situation would be a huge witness to her and FIL, who are both non-believers.

Thanks for your continued support and I hope I'm as successful with my MB as your daughter has been. Keep up the posts and the prayers.

sbmmal

NSYN,



I spent a long evening last night reading a book called The Secret Message of Jesus. I got to a part that talked about the way He taught in parables about how to achieve the abundant life and how you have to be like a child to really be in a place where you can understand them - with the curiosity and wonder and humility to get it. It was awesome and I know what you mean. I will continue to pray feverishly, for blessings for my WW, for DD, and for OM - 'cause He says so.

All I am and will become in Him,
sbmmal

ALL,

Here's the story. Not much new to report, but a lot is happening at the same time. I just don't know what it all is. Now beginning to see the major impact of exposure on the A. MIL has gone to WA to be with WW, not sure if she was invited or if she just showed up. Helping with DD who has major ear infection... God? Indication from WW's old cell phone that OM talked to her FRI and tried to twice more near midnight before WW called Christian friends and exposure contacts of ours for what I can only assume was help... Oh yeah, WW also bought OM2 (EA?) a plane ticket with our air miles to see his daughter in FLA... She had asked ahead of time, but I didn't think she'd do it.

It is so discouraging talking to her because she's still so pissed about the exposure, and the fact that I'm trying to develop relationships with people back home who I've neglected and want to have as accountability partners going forward. FOG TALK SUCKS - especially when on the receiving end of it. She's so angry and so resentful. I keep turning it back to truth about love/marriage, family, and DD, but she gets worn out quickly and has to go. It's hard to know how to approach it and whether we're going the right way or the wrong way, but avoiding LBs at all costs and eagerly anticipating leave, but know God has plan to develop and equip me before then.

I think it is a time for solitude and calm before the storm. I'll be in the boat sleeping next to J... Happy for the storm and not missing the bigger point of all this. Devotional today was on training retrievers and how one particular breed needs to be beaten to learn how to do it properly, while others only need verbal rebuke to achieve compliance with their master's will. With my Master, I am still the thickheaded type and pain compliance is the only way to get through to my independent spirit. Working on that here and now so I can hear and respond to still small voice in the future.

Sent some sunflowers and chocolate to WW today and may call this evening. Whether she likes them or not, MIL will likely appreciate the gesture of thanks, as she is from KS. DD will probably eat the chocolate. Most of the DVDs are still making their way home, but the first one was well received by DD, who still remembers me as "daddy!" Thank God! WW very worried about what I will tell DD. I keep reminding her that DD will likely ask her when she needs to understand it. Praying that question will never need to come up and this all remains transparent to beautiful innocent DD. I love my wife and I want her back, I really don't care for WW or her selfish decisions, but I'm lifting her up constantly all the same.

Dad sent HELP cards to WW's side of the family on Saturday. He asked about what else to do. Mom working on making arrangements with a PI through a lawyer. She's a sneaky one and I love her for it. Not sure how fruitful that effort will be with MIL living at the house with WW now. Surely WW wouldn't deceive her own mother from through the fog, would she? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Anyhow, please pray for MIL in this situation, as she cried for about two days straight when she found out what WW had done... Firmly believe she's on the side of DD and I getting our mommy and wife back. She will need strength and power to speak truth to WW consistenly!!!

Thank you for the referral to Aussie2 and Aussieswife. If you have a link to their story, I could really use another pick me up...

Thanks again for all your support - keep it coming along with critical observations of where else I need to be working. Praying to become another shining example of the before and after advertising campaign for MB! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I'll see what I can find for you on the Aussies, and I'll sneak over to Mom's thread and put a shout out for them.

Keep putting this in God's hands. You can be guaranteed that He has a plan for this, and you will be given instructions on a need-to-know basis. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Let's see if I can do this without reanimating the ire of our resident pagan. Hm-m-m-m-m.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

It is my opinion that, regardless of the eventual outcome of your marriage building efforts, you have an unsurpassed opportunity in this situation to witness to your non-believing family members, to allow them to see displayed in you the character and love of Jesus being lived out through the heart of an ordinary man. (No offense intended, but you are are an ordinary man, aren't you?)

The biggest, perhaps the only, restraint on my own thermonuclear device during my daughter's unfortunate brush with evil, was the knowledge that (a) my words and actions towards her husband reflected directly back on the Saviour I claimed to worship, and (b) that if she and he were successful in rebuilding and restoring their shattered covenant, what I had said and done during the affair would make it either easier or harder for the whole family to re-knit again. And it wasn't as if I didn't have PLENTY to say. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

You're probably right to protect your mom from too much inside knowledge right now. Maternal instinct protects and defends, sometimes wisely, sometimes not. Don't let her be tempted beyond what she's able to bear! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> But let your reaction to every provocation, thrown at you by this affair, be a shining light. You have a testimony that your life can give, no matter what.

t&l

T&L, et al,




During my struggle with my now XH, I never breathed a word of the worst of it all about my XH for that very reason. I did not, in spite of my own pain, want to do or say anything that would make it impossible for my H to come home and rebuild our marriage with the support of my family. It was very difficult for me to not tell them everything, but I would do it all over again exactly the same. Sadly my marriage was not restored. To this day, I still have not told my family the worst. Yes, they suspect, but I will neither confirm nor deny. After all, he is still my children’s father and I just don't want my family to slip and say something or without thinking show disrespect or anger towards him in my children’s presence.

I suspect that my mother, like you, T&L would have had a difficult time keeping her finger off the button on that thermonuclear device. I can not even begin to imagine how difficult it was for you.

~ swl <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Cissy! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

That must have been so hard. Mine guessed, and I had no deniability, plausible or otherwise.

SB,

I still pray for the OW every day. I ask God to bring the experiences into her life that will lead her closer to Him. I do think that being able to do that will contribute to your own healing.

(Just a side note, in case you were wondering. Our dear, resident pagan-or-whatever to whom Mom referred, has never posted here. He is a wonderful man, one of my main advisors during Plan A, and a man of great integrity. He happens to take exception to statements that directly or indirectly imply that Christians are the only ones with a set of moral standards. I.e. "His family won't support the A because they are Christians." Or any of a million variations he finds irrestible as an avenue to remind us that Christians are not the only ones with morals. He is a fine example of a non-Christian person who has an excellent character, but Mom hopes to avoid that particular discussion here is possible - you've got enough on your hands already, lol.)

I don't remember if you said, but is 'your' OM/OMen married or single? I think they were single. From what I have seen in many cases, my own included, the single ones often go plumb bonkers after the A ends. On the one hand, this is bad because you will have to deal with additional incidents just when you would most like to settle down and relax, but it can also be good, because the worse the OP behaves, the more of your wife's good feelings for them will be destroyed. Long-term payoff.

My FWH is still very angry when he remembers all the stunts his FOW has pulled, which is why he doesn't like to be reminded of her any more than he can help. Your wife would probably be the same way, too.

If he/they are married it can be a little easier - on you, anyway - because after their spouse knows, you have an ally in maintaining NC, as well as a loving force pulling the OM away from your WW. Either way, it still works.

Have you begun giving some thought to your conditions for recovery? There may be some things that are different for you, since you will be deployed for a good share of early recovery. It will be harder for you to keep track of her yourself (not to keep her from doing anything, of course, but simply to buttress your own peace of mind that nothing is occurring), but with the help of the parents and perhaps some accountability partners, you can make it work.

AW is still asleep, but when she or her mum comes on I'll ask how they handle transparency while Aussie is gone.

I'm so glad her mom came. That will put a real crimp in things. If she is determined to carry on her A, lying to her mom is a real dose of reality, and puts a huge pressure on the A.

Mom, loved your last post. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />