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SB I had another thought after reading your most recent post once more:

Try to do whatever you can within the limits of the law to see your child.

Also, do not agree to a dissolution. I am not certain, but I think that her actions of infidelity will hold more weight in a divorce and not as much -if any- in a dissolution.

One last thing: At this point it is more important than ever to remain calm and watch what you say.

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A few points of order:

ABUSE:
*SB admitted to abusing his wife. This was not merely a "magical perception" on my part. I simply suspected that this took place based upon his words and asked him about it repeatedly until I received an answer.

*A discussion about saving his marriage must necessarily include a discussion -or, at the very least- an admission of his abuse. If you truly believe that abuse within the context of marriage is a "side issue" when the very existence of that marriage is threatened, then your belief system is seriously flawed.


RATIONALITY & THE "RATIONAL OUTSIDE OBSERVER":
*SB is in an emotional state at this point in his life-and understandably so. I find it curious that you ask him to think about this "rationally" as if he truly can (yet his wife-who is an equal stakeholder in this situation-somehow can't.) Newsflash: Neither party involved is feeling particularly rational at this time.

*You spoke of a "rational outside observer." Well, my perception is that you want a co-signer, not a rational outside observer. You, and other parties here, are taking bits and pieces of what is said for disagreement purposes while simultanoeusly ignoring points of agreement. For example- the idea that the infidelity IS NOT SB's fault. I am not sure how many different ways I must type that in order for you and others to comprehend that we are all in agreement on that particular point.

FALACIES OF LOGIC:
*Finally, your situation is not his. Just because your wife "falsely" accused you of abuse does not mean his wife's claims are false. In fact, SB's telling of the tale along with his admission that HE ABUSED HIS WIFE should serve as all the "proof" we need that this took place.

Specifically: If you are going to believe everything alse about SB's situation as presented by him -why do you choose to disbelieve him on this point?

THIS IS FOR EVERYONE
I thought that the purpose of this board was advice, help, and support. We should not seek to relive our individual situations through SB. We should be honest / truthful about what we are reading in people's words-even if (no- especially if) something we are going to say may not be easy to swallow.

A few folks here did SB a big fat disservice by simply high fiving him when he talked about how his wife was this and his wife was that and how HE was going to do this and that to get his "wayward" wife back "to normal."

No one bothered to ask the hard questions, no one tried to help him sort out root causes. Everyone was so very busy trying not to upset / offend or they were too busy thinking about how THEY were wronged by a "wayward" spouse. So no one even mentioned (or noticed) the fact that his wife may not even want to get back together. We all concluded that she was crazy, disloyal, unfaithful, opportunistic....

YET when this crazy, disloyal, unfaithful, opportunistic woman decided to get on the phone with SB and make nice, we all said that things were looking up.

What is wrong with this picture????

He came here for good advice and was blindsided by a court action because he never saw it coming. He never saw it coming in part because of the reinforcement of his singular way of thinking courtesy of some of the people on this board.

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Great post, C&S.

It is strange to me why a woman would file a RO against someone out of the country, unless she doesn't want to be caught cheating.

I hope that sbmmal will follow the law, and be very careful. Might be time to consult a military attorney to find out his rights.

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Thought I'd waste a few minutes, lol


A few points of order:

ABUSE:
*SB admitted to abusing his wife. This was not merely a "magical perception" on my part. I simply suspected that this took place based upon his words and asked him about it repeatedly until I received an answer.

He admitted to NOTHING more than the typical DJ's, AO's, etc, admitted to by most every other BH that have come here admitting such as contributing factors to the underlying demise of the marriage. He has made NO indication of being a legal "abusive" husband. You make him sound like a wife beater. Like his wife has been cowering in fear of him.

However, we do have pretty solid PROOF, albeit from him, that his wife is abusive. Did you perceive in there that this is not her first affair. She's a serial cheater. I submit, INFIDELITY is the biggest form of abuse. Try this quote on for size:


Quote:

Mrs. Sbmmal's email last week...HER WORDS
.
"My heart is closed to any possibility for a marital reconciliation between us. Although you have apologized for the financial mistrust in me, that was the last straw for me. I don't trust you and I feel very betrayed. I did not spend money on a relationship outside of ours. I am hurt that you would even think that I would do that."




You may not perceive this but that is a huge LIE considering we now know she is in continuance of her affair (beside assuming she IS spending his money on OM, directly and indirectly, she is also using his pay to hire attorneys to facilitate a divorce to be with OM. He was dead on with his mistrust...NOT ABUSIVE...though last week he may have thought he misbehaved. See how she flips and manipulates the facts to make Sbmmal feel like he is being controlling and "abusive". "I don't trust you and feel very betrayed"....yeah right...that's flat out abuse of sbmmal by his wife. HE gets my sympathy and compassion...NOT HER and her bogus claims he is abusive. I can see it...why can't YOU.

Another thing she said (as reported by sbmmal)

Quote:

She mentioned that she was using the A as an exit strategy from our marriage, and she said the same thing about what she had tried during Korea with her other infidelities.




Infidelities? How many??? No wonder sbmmal is running around trying to fix himself....she has been playing this game with him for years. Classic blame shifting. SHE WAS THE ABUSER in this relationship much more demonstrative of abusive behaviors than Sbmmal "admitting" he was "overly critical and feared intimacy".


*A discussion about saving his marriage must necessarily include a discussion -or, at the very least- an admission of his abuse. If you truly believe that abuse within the context of marriage is a "side issue" when the very existence of that marriage is threatened, then your belief system is seriously flawed.

It is MOST LIKELY and OBVIOUSLY a side issue. He's got to fight for his marriage from around the globe. His family is under attack by OM and you are simply focusing on his issues (which I clearly stated he should explore) just not as the central theme of this thread. His abuse of her pales in comparison to HER obvious abuse of HIM. Now a divorce has been filed and restraining orders and you seriously want to explore the "TRUTH" of the claims in the obviously bogus Restraining Order....he's around the globe for Pete's sake. She's just rightfully scared HER LIES and DECEIPT are going to come to roost.

There are likely no statistics available but it is classic WW behavior to claim abuse and file crap like restraining orders to JUSTIFY their abuse and immoral choices. It helps feed the affair addiction (OM please save me...my husband is abusive) and it helps them SAVE face with family and friends and the COURT.

Lastly, why do you italisize the word "admission"...that's a legal term...mmmmm. Your focus on such seems odd.


RATIONALITY & THE "RATIONAL OUTSIDE OBSERVER":
*SB is in an emotional state at this point in his life-and understandably so. I find it curious that you ask him to think about this "rationally" as if he truly can (yet his wife-who is an equal stakeholder in this situation-somehow can't.) Newsflash: Neither party involved is feeling particularly rational at this time.

I acknowledge his emotional state is likely not fully rational. I advised him to explore the side issue with appropriate professionally trained independent counselor. However, his rationality FAR exceeds that of his wife. She's on affair crack...fully addicted. She's a rat in a cage that keeps pushing the button to get her some OM. OM is her ONLY focus and she can't have OM unless she can rationalize and justify away Sbmmal. She must legitimize her relationship with OM, so Sbmmal must be abusive. She's been soooo adamant as she abused Sbmmal over the years with multiple affairs she's even got Sbmmal questioning it. Why wouldn't he...he loves her and trusts her. It is ALL very logical, just not that "rational". Sbmmal is not in an affair and can think more clearly than she....it is the strength that many a BS's utilize to save their WS from utter damnation.


*You spoke of a "rational outside observer." Well, my perception is that you want a co-signer, not a rational outside observer. You, and other parties here, are taking bits and pieces of what is said for disagreement purposes while simultaneously ignoring points of agreement. For example- the idea that the infidelity IS NOT SB's fault. I am not sure how many different ways I must type that in order for you and others to comprehend that we are all in agreement on that particular point.

I basically told him to get rational advice from someone other than you. A professional or whatever. You just lack any experience in this matters (infidelity and abuse counseling) and are misdirecting Sbmmal. Of course, I think I'm right about Sbmmal and that he is NOT abusive. I left open the possibility of being wrong. If he is indeed abusive...I TOLD HIM ...DON'T DISCUSS IT HERE WITH LAYMEN...SEEK PROFESSIONAL HELP

FALACIES OF LOGIC:
*Finally, your situation is not his. Just because your wife "falsely" accused you of abuse does not mean his wife's claims are false. In fact, SB's telling of the tale along with his admission that HE ABUSED HIS WIFE should serve as all the "proof" we need that this took place.

My situation was layed out for Sbmmal's understanding and your education. It was not unique. It is the MOST LIKELY scenario as we herein see the same played out time after time AFTER TIME. We don't control the circumstances the BS arrive in we just recognize their similarities. Sbmmal has MOST LIKELY been abused to the point that he questions EVERYTHING about himself. He has been beaten down and YOU actually want to continue the beating by repeatedly repeating (redundant) his abusers very manipulation and abuse techniques on him. I/we are defensive of Sbmmal because we perceive you are perpetuating the harm inflicted on this man MORE LIKELY THAN NOT...BY HIS, er.."loving" WIFE



Specifically: If you are going to believe everything alse about SB's situation as presented by him -why do you choose to disbelieve him on this point?


This is all he really admitted to:

Quote:

"I believe there is a hyper-awareness of controlling behavior there that I didn't realize existed until now. I mentioned WW's relationship with FIL to MIL and she got angry and said it had nothing to do with it. I responded by saying that it was a vulnerability I should've tried harder to understand and prevent myself from similar behaviors that would exacerbate that pain."




Quote:

I have been overly critical, kept people at a safe distance by not revealing my true self, not shared my feelings with people who wanted to know me deeply when I should've, and gotten overly defensive when called out for having the wrong priorities in my life and my family and KNEW I was wrong, but was too prideful to listen.




He later "admitted" to DJ's, AO's and LB's in general. His admission are innocuous and generally the very same admissions that nearly every BH here shows up with. He didn't even know he was being abusive. Isn't it uncanny how he just so happens to perceive his own abusiveness WHILE SHE'S ABUSING HIM IN AN ADULTEROUS RELATIONSHIP and then characterizes such abusiveness as "relative" to her victim status as an sensitive child raised in an emotionally abusive home with detached parents. Please...Whatever.

Rarely are marriages bouncing along happily on a pile of money when, bang...infidelity. Most all have problems and usually 50-50 blame is involved. Sbmmal has "admitted" to NOTHING which I am choosing to "disbelieve". I know he has faults. Unfortunately (this isn't some gift I wish to have...I got it the hard way), I can "understand" exactly what he is "admitting" to cause I've personally been in his shoes. I understand he was a imperfect husband....in fact, we all were/are.




THIS IS FOR EVERYONE
I thought that the purpose of this board was advice, help, and support. We should not seek to relive our individual situations through SB. We should be honest / truthful about what we are reading in people's words-even if (no- especially if) something we are going to say may not be easy to swallow.



I'm not reliving anything. I'm recovered and happy. No worries.

I am being honest. I HONESTLY feel you are perpetuating a disservice and distraction to Sbmmal's thread. Honestly, I perceive you to be a ball buster. I honestly think you likely have rank over men and the innate desire (and ability) to control men but are frustrated therein by an institution that covertly opposes your feminine authority. I honestly perceive some overcompensating tendencies. Even if Sbmmal's wife WERE here...I suspect you'd still focus wholeheartedly on his perceived "abuse" rather than her OBVIOUS greater fully known and actually revealed "abuse".

I apologize for my brutal and radical honesty about my inferences. Again, I think you may be well-intentioned....just wrong in THIS case. If you are who you say you are, I have great respect for you and what YOU do for our country...just not so much for what I believe you are doing to Sbmmal...your fellow serviceman




A few folks here did SB a big fat disservice by simply high fiving him when he talked about how his wife was this and his wife was that and how HE was going to do this and that to get his "wayward" wife back "to normal."


His wife is a OM addict. We can NOT predict anything and everything an addict may do. She is not "normal" right now. She is possessed. We were hopeful but realistic and I think Sbmmal gets that...(even before she filed for divorce he clearly indicated the affair was likely still in full swing...he rationally considered she was likely and consistently LIEING TO him)



No one bothered to ask the hard questions, no one tried to help him sort out root causes. Everyone was so very busy trying not to upset / offend or they were too busy thinking about how THEY were wronged by a "wayward" spouse. So no one even mentioned (or noticed) the fact that his wife may not even want to get back together. We all concluded that she was crazy, disloyal, unfaithful, opportunistic....


EXACTLY. Right now the underlying marital problems are indecipherable and he can't work on them UNTIL the ROOT CAUSE (BEING OM AND THE AFFAIR) is finished/ended/over. She IS crazy, disloyal, unfaithful and opportunistic. She is also very manipulative. She will do anything to maintain and deepen her affair with OM.

Plan A is about Sbmmal...it is not about "whether his WW wants to get back together or not". He will make it, with or without his WW he will make it



YET when this crazy, disloyal, unfaithful, opportunistic woman decided to get on the phone with SB and make nice, we all said that things were looking up.

We were/are hopeful. The saying goes: "Believe NOTHING a WS says and only 50% of what they do. The fact they were communicating at all is beneficial to guiding a WS out of the fog. Every contact is essential. Just take it all with a grain of salt and move forward. Accept uncertainty is the creed. All things are possible through God. You can bet His will, will be done


What is wrong with this picture????

He came here for good advice and was blindsided by a court action because he never saw it coming. He never saw it coming in part because of the reinforcement of his singular way of thinking courtesy of some of the people on this board.


Again, a WS is capable of anything, thus everything is foreseen. Sbmmal should always be protecting his backside legally. He is the only rational parent available to his child and when he gets back he should FIGHT for custody (another reason to stay the court proceedings as he clearly is not in any position right now to fight for custody...November...maybe). Such probabilities are clearly discussed in the many newbie threads Sbmmal should have read (which maybe he missed focusing on your abuse line of interrogation...lol).


MY LAST AND MOST IMPORTANT POINT.

SBMMAL...I don't trust this situation. Spice Girl may not be your spouse but I still suspect she/he may be relevant to your situation. The last couple weeks your wife has been consulting with lawyers, she has filed for divorce, she has claimed abuse and filed restraining orders. Whereas, you just happen to be on-line on a public discussion board with a newly Arrival, Jr. Member that focuses only on YOU and only on your alleged and so-called but not thoroughly defined nor characterized, “ADMITTED ABUSE”. It's suspicious.

Although this is a public forum, your words here are supposedly copyrighted and inadmissible, however, I wouldn't be surprised to see someone attempt to insert and characterize your words herein against you in the divorce proceeding and/or custody hearing. For example, they could ry to impeach your testimony with your words herein to characterize you as a liar. Nowe, if you are abusive...IT SHOULD BE USED AGAINST YOU. If you are not really abusive as that term is used in the courts, as I perceive, I still fear a good attorney will try to twist your words herein in an attempt characterize you as such, irregardless of the truth. BE VERY WARY.


Finally...Sbmmal please email me at the address below

Peace,

Mr. Wondering


P.S. - I do have great respect and admiration for Believer within this forum. Her innate abilities of perception make me much more wary of my convictions above. What do you see Believer???...email me at OUR email address if you'd like to share. Did I miss something???


FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering)
DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered

"agree to disagree" = Used when one wants to reject the objective reality of the situation and hopefully replace it with their own.
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I would be very curious, too. B, do you think something is off base?

SB, I am very concerned about your energy level. The affair-beast must die before your marriage has a chance. That is where your main focus needs to be at this point. Not neglecting your own issues, but keeping them more toward the periphery. There is a time and a place for everything, and your issues will have their turn at center stage when it is time.

Please email Mr. W, and take his insight into consideration.


A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner.
~ English proverb



Neak's Story
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Comrades,

Hooah from the foxhole in Baghdad! Operational security prevents me from releasing any information that may end up in the hands of the infidel. Suffice it to say, I am prepared for the road ahead and have been inspired by the successes of God in MM's situation in the last 24 hours.

Since the information in the legal documents was generated by the infidel, please allow me to elaborate on the truth in there...

The Ex-Parte Restraining Order stipulates the following:

The husband is restrained and enjoined disturbing the peace of the other party or of any child.

The husband is restrained and enjoined from going onto the grounds of or entering the home, working place, or school of the other party or the daycare or school of the DD.

Both parties will continue to pay financial obligations, blah, blah, blah...

Both parties will maintain current insurance coverage, health, life, auto, home, etc., blah, blah, blah...

The funny part of the story is that the R/O expiration date is today unless extended as it is only a 14 day order. Regardless, I'm going to CO to be with family so I can maintain appropriate distance from this madness. WW has pledged to allow me to see DD during leave, but I am very wary of everything just now and need some time to consolidate and reorganize.

There is a hearing on the 28th to establish temporary support agreements, but I am following the advice of all on this board reference exercising my civil rights so I can continue to focus my energy on staying alert and staying alive until I get back and out of the Army... I still have an obligation to my soldiers and this place ain't getting much less hostile.

NSYN, Mr. W, and B - You are all very perceptive and your steadfast support means the world to me right now. I need to recharge with family and continue to strategize about how to slay the beast of infidelity for the good of my family. These are the objectives of my leave and the reasons for needing to surround myself with people who love me and want me to succeed for DD and my family. This is what is called a tactical pause and it is sorely needed before continuing to march, looking up, and moving forward with God back onto both battlefields.

Many miracles await us in the Promised Land that follows this journey through the wilderness. I've said all I will be saying in this forum regarding controlling behavior and love busters. CS - Thanks for helping to fully-develop the discussion, but it is now time to let go and let God continue to work the issue in me and with me. Those issues are for my IC and I to discuss behind closed doors and I am still doing that and will continue until I have completed that essential transformation for myself. As it has been pointed out, now it is time to focus everything I am and will become on saving my marriage and family from the jaws of ruin and destruction.

"He will remove all of their sorrows, and there will be no more death or sorrow or crying or pain. For the old world and its evils are gone forever" And the one sitting on the throne said, "Look, I am making all things new!" And then he said to me, "Write this down, for what I tell you is trustworthy and true." Revelation 21:4-5

All I am and will become in Him,
sbmmal

P.S. I have e-mailed Mr. W.

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sb,

If i don't get a chance to write you again before you go on leave, keep up the good work. I have read your entire thread and it sounds like you are progressing.

I am in no place to offer advice, as my situation appears to be nearly as bleak, but I can offer support and prayer. The creator of all that is has big plans for all of us. I, like yourself have seen this deployment as a wake up call, and am answering with the same tenacity.

I draw much strength from your thread, as well as the advice you are getting from all of the other GREAT people here.

I wish you luck and hope you have a relaxing leave!


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Believer, it is definitely time for SB to consult a lawyer, though I am not certain about what kind (military or civilian.)

If I were him, I would be hurt that my spouse cheated on me, and then I would be doubly hurt at their apparent dishonesty re/ the possibility of a reconciliation.

I am very concerned that a few folks here still don't get it: The infidelity did not cause the destruction of SB's marriage-the marriage was, in a sense, destroyed already. SB's wife attempted to use the affair as a quick & easy escape.

SB can bust up this particular affair; however, (IF the relationship somehow continues) there will likely be another affair, another dash for the door, or some other negative / inappropriate behavior if the root cause of the problem isn't uncovered and addressed.

The sad and bad part of all of this is the one sided perspective being provided by many of the respondents here: People here are telling SB that "the affair" is to blame for the break up of the marriage (as if "the affair is a separate living breathing entity), yet SB is perfectly willing to continue his marriage in the face of the affair.

When an affair "breaks up" a marriage it usually goes like this:
-One spouse cheats
-The other spouse finds out & files for divorce

Not:
-One spouse cheats
-The other finds out, tries to bust up the affair and tries their damnedest to get back in.

Thoughts?









Do yo have any ohter comments about my post?

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Quote:

Thoughts?




Always.


A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner.
~ English proverb



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I will not waste as much time as you. My responses will be brief...

Perhaps you missed this post from SB:
Quote:

I realized that my behaviors had deeply wounded my wife and prevented the kind of true intimacy that we needed to have a successful marriage. I realized that my behaviors had deeply wounded my wife and prevented the kind of true intimacy that we needed to have a successful marriage. I understand that the controlling behavior is a form of abuse and I as the perpetrator was being abusive.




Sir, that sounds like an admission of abuse to me...What say you?

Also, the invitation you extended to Believer to talk about me on the side -while comical in a grotesquly dysfuntional sort of way- only serve to show that my comments are striking the string of truth on the banjo of your conscience.


I would like to assure everyone here that I am not SB's wife, nor do I know SB or his family personally. I am not a lawyer either... I would think that this particular fact would be obvious since I know about as much (or as little) about the legalities of his situation as anyone else here.

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sbmmal,

This is my first time posting to you, and I wanted to say I think you are getting some great advice from long time MBers. After reading CS's last post, I felt I needed to take a moment to offer a suggestion.

Click on her username
In the right hand corner, click on "ignore this user"
Then, when she posts to you, you can't read what's in the body of the message

God bless you, and I wish you much love and luck with your situation. Thank you for protecting our country.

KM


Me: FWW (34)
H: BS (35)
Together 12 years, no children (yet)
LTA: 3 years
D-Day: Sept. 13, 2005 (I confessed)

So blessed, thankful and happy for my wonderful H...

"God lives in the gathering of saints."
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CinnamonSugar,

Marriage Builders is a SUPPORT site. Support for those trying to save and/or rebuild their marriage using Marriage Builders Concepts and principles. As the intro to the Discussion Forums suggests, PLEASE familiarize yourself WITH these concepts..

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thoughts? Ok, I'll bite.

CinnSugar,

It's very interesting how you signed onto the forums about the same time as sbmmal started posting and how you haven't posted on any other threads except this one.

It's also odd how you haven't shown much support for MB principle, particularly those applications to sb's situation.

Hmmm.

EMN.

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Yes, SB should ignore me.

People usually make alot of progress by listening only to those that completely co-sign their point of view. just look all the positive things that have happened for SB so far...



THIS IS FOR SB



The VERY LAST THING that I want to see is yet another military marriage broken apart.

Let me repeat that:

The VERY LAST THING that I want to see is yet another military marriage broken apart.

I promise to be an ear, I promise to tell you the truth (as I have been doing in this thread), and I promise to do any info search I can to help you. My husband is an Admin Chief, and I will ask him for any military info that could serve to assist you if need be.

I honesty think you have received and are still receiving crappy advice here...Actually-you can't call co-signing and high fiving with a few disparaging remarks about your wife thrown in for good measure "advice."

If you decline my invitation allow me to say this:

Please consider the fact that, despite what the folks in this thread have been saying, you probably should be focusing on YOUR behavior in the attempt to repair any relationship-especially a romantic one. This is true for one key reason: Your behavior is the only thing you have any real control over.

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Justuss, I am familiar with the concepts, and I have concluded that high fiving does not qualify as support.


SB was blindsided because of all the "support" he received in this thread.

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I was not communicating with you, but feel free to jump in...

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Quote:

It's very interesting how you signed onto the forums about the same time as sbmmal started posting and how you haven't posted on any other threads except this one.





It's very interesting how you chose to ignore my repeated posts about how and why I am here.



Quote:

It's also odd how you haven't shown much support for MB principle, particularly those applications to sb's situation.





What's odder (is that a word?) is that almost all of the respondents here have made this thread about cyberbullying me into silence.

Fear not! It ain't gonna work.

Truthfully, I am not sure that SB is actually ready to put the principles into practice. To be honest, he gave alot of lipservice to self-change; however, underneath it all I perceive a continuing focus upon his wife's wrongdoing and getting his "Wayward Wife" back to normal rather than a desire to seek out and address root causes. "Normal" for them seemed to include him controlling her and her simmering about it. Why return to that ????

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You know something, CS? You are totally missing the point.

SBBMAL is addressing the issue. He IS addressing HIS contribution to the breakdown of his marriage. He is recognizing those issues within himself, and by following God's Word and the MB principles, he is addressing them.

Yes, he said that he recognizes that his control issues may have been abusive. They may or may not have been what anyone else might call abuse. His wife has decided that his control issues were abusive, and maybe they WERE, for her. Bear in mind, though, that his wife was apparently raised by a mother who seems to have become hypersensitive to any hint of controlling behavior due to his wife's dad being abusive (from what SBMMAL says).

SBMMAL's WW appears to be a serial cheater. Hmmm! If SBMMAL was such a control freak, how in the world was she able to escape his scrutiny long enough to cheat...not once, but multiple times? She apparently wasn't afraid of his reaction, or she wouldn't have done it.

So, apparently, SBMMAL hasn't tried to isolate his wife from the world, as most abusers do. He says that he has never hit her. She has a career, so he isn't keeping her confined to the house.

So, I guess the thing we need to ask is HOW SBMMAL was being abusive, instead of basically telling him that he is a low-life dog for abusing his lovely wife, so no wonder she cheated! No, you didn't use those exact words; but, yes, that is exactly how you are coming across!

So, I have gathered that there have been financial issues in SBMMAL's marriage. Maybe he was being "controlling" by insisting that his wife not spend money they don't have or that they don't need to spend. There's nothing wrong with his wanting to protect his family's financial future!

Maybe, by having angry outbursts, he was being abusive. Yes, I agree that constant angry outbursts are not good, and that SBBMAL is responsible for controlling his actions. That's not to say that he was wrong for being angry, though. The angry outbursts may not even have been what most people would call abusive. We don't know what form his angry outburst took. Did he call her ugly names or curse her? Did he tell her she was stupid? Did he tell her he hated her? We don't know, and you don't, either.

CS, what you don't seem to understand about MB is that the BS is urged to look at him/herself honestly, recognize the problems he/she contributed to the marriage, and work to eliminate the lovebusters that he/she is committing, and generally work to become a better person...not just to win back the WS, but for him/herself, so that no matter whether the marriage recovers or not, the BS will recover, with or without the WS.

In the meantime, while the BS is working on him/herself, he/she must deal with the WS. The BS must do whatever he/she can to protect the family from the actions of the WS, while SHOWING the WS that he/she has changed. The BS who wants to save his/her marriage has to FIGHT for the marriage, not curl up and die over whatever wrongs he/she has committed prior to the affair(s).

So, since you have not experienced infidelity in your marriage, and you seem to be obsessed over what you seem to think is horrible abuse on SBMMAL's part, perhaps due to the abuse you suffered, I respectfully submit that you have not the slightest idea of what you are talking about.

My control-freak, manipulative, and emotionally/verbally abusive FWH was the one who cheated on me. He became that way after he became a WS. I think that is usually the way it is, but it's certainly possible that I could be wrong about that. He's a lot better now than he used to be, but only because I've become stronger and won't put up with it anymore.

Anyway, spend a little time reading the different stories on MB. You might actually learn something about infidelity and abuse, other than from your own experience.

And, BTW, if you tried to help your co-worker the way you appear to be trying to help SBMMAL, I'm not surprised that she turned against you, even though I believe you were sincerely trying to help her.

LC

Last edited by Lady Clueless; 07/13/06 09:47 PM.

"Your actions are so loud that I can't hear a word you're saying!"

BW M 44 yrs to still-foggy but now-faithful WH. What/how I post=my biz. Report any perceived violations to the Mods.
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Quote:

"Normal" for them seemed to include him controlling her and her simmering about it. Why return to that ????




That right there is a perfect example of a 50-50 marital issue. He "controls", she submits and resents. Without more information the abuse you infer is completely missing. The marital problem looks pretty equal to me...they both are messing up.


Here is a great example:

A fictional husband seemingly "controls" his fictional wife by handling all financial matters. She doesn't even have a checking account and expresses NO dismay, argument or ill word about it (perhaps she occasionally wishes she had "her own" money to spend without scrutiny but no real consistent fuss is ever made). In fact, the husband has steadfastly attempted to get the wife involved and she chooses not to.

That is not unhealthy "control" it's just the way some spouses choose to live. If both parties are fine with it...so be it. However, IF the wife secretly resents it (i.e.-simmers about it) and FAILS to say anything about such resentment...then right there you've got your 50-50 marital problem. Husband is controlling and wife is resentful...but neither of them really know what they are doing to their marriage, how to discuss it or ever resolve it. They both "conflict avoid" the issue. The husband just does it cause he's always done it and has no idea the wife resents it. Their combined failure to recognize they have a marital problem demonstrates their lack of MB principles and lack of genuine real intimacy. In no way is this abuse, by and of itself, on the part of either of them.

However, after years of silent and "simmering" resentment the wife then undertakes to commence an affair. NOW all of the sudden the financial "control" her husband has exercised over the years becomes an "abusive" "toxic" controlling issue. The wayward wife NOW utilizes this issue to draw in her paramour (save me from this contolling abusive idiot) AND to rationalize/justify her huband out of the picture. Husband, now hurt and destroyed by his wifes betrayal, infidelity and ABUSE becomes insecure and vulneralbe to criticism. Again NOW all the sudden he "WAKES UP" to his wife's resentment of the financial control he'd been exercising all along and "feels" complete guilt, remorse and stupidity for failing to recognize it earlier. Because he loves and still trusts his wife, these newly revealled accusations prompt him to commence introspection and even he concludes he was "controlling" and thus abusive. He apologizes, he admits HIS failure, he does ALL he can to inform his wife he's ready and willing to change. "Honey, you do the books....I'd be glad to put you in charge...just come back to me". Of course, wife see's that as desparate and needy. "NOPE...to late", wife says, "you should have read my mind back then or taken the one or two hints I dropped over the years and changed back then...it's ALL YOUR fault...I'm gonna keep having my affair whether you like it or not CAUSE I DESERVE IT after all the abuse I put up with".

Finally, after a time, with the affair out in the open and not so fun anymore the affair is busted up and marital reconciliation commences. Drastic changes in the marriage are made but guess what....they POJA the financial issues and low and behold the wife wants absolutely nothing to do with the financial decision making for the family. She wants her husband to control it all AGAIN.

You see...it's not all about the husband, it's not about the abuse. Sbmmal's wife is having an affair because she choose to behave immorally and corrupt her integrity. It's really ALL about the affair and the wayward spouse. The basic MB concepts of Love Busters are not intended to be characterized and analyzed as "abuse". LB's and abuse are not one in the same. Sbmmal's relationship most likely lacked intimacy and communication, that's it. With MB principles and skills they could have avoid any problems with the financial control issue by addressing their needs, issues of control and resentment regularly. These are normal everyday issues in every marriage.

In conclusion, until Mrs. Sbmmal pulls herself out of the fog neither you nor I have any way to really determine if Mrs. Sbmmal was really "controlled" and/or abused despite sbmmal's early misguided focus on the issue. WS's bring it up cause they want to understand the "why's????" of the affair. The affairs MAKE no sense to them and they so badly want to know and fix what THEY did. Right now...IT IS, all about what SHE DID and that's what this INFIDELITY forum is designed to assit sbmmal with.

Mr. Wondering

p.s. - BTW, the above financial control issue is derived from my fact pattern. It's not some story I made up. I lived it and it happens most all the time around here.

Step one: Bust up the affair (pull crackhead MrsSbmmal from the jaws of her addiction to OM for the sake of Sbmmal, their child AND, in fact, Mrs.Sbmmal-she needs saving and apparently Sbmmal wants to save her)

Step Two: TOGETHER fix the marriage.


FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering)
DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered

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Actually, there seems to be a great deal of consensus among professionals in the psychology, sociology, and law enforcement fields as to what domestic abuse is. Here's a good example

Physical Violence
____ Slap, punch, grab, kick, choke, push, restrain, pull hair, pinch, bite
____ Rape (use of force, threats to get sex)
____ Use of weapons, throwing things, keeping weapons around which scare her
____ Abuse of furniture, things in the home, pets, destroying her things
____ Intimidation (standing in the doorway during arguments, angry or threatening gestures, use of size to intimidate, standing over her, outshouting, driving recklessly)
____ Uninvited touching
____ Threats (verbal or nonverbal, direct or indirect)
____ Harassment (uninvited visits or calls, following her around, checking up on her, embarrassing her in public, not leaving when asked)
____ Isolation (preventing or making it hard for her to see/talk to friends, relatives, others)
____ Other (please list)

Psychological and Economic Abuse
____ Yelling, swearing, being lewd, raising your voice, using angry expressions or gestures
____ Criticism (name-calling, swearing, mocking, put-downs, ridicule, accusations, blaming, use of trivializing words or gestures)
____ Pressure Tactics (rushing her to make decisions, using guilt/accusations, sulking, threatening to withhold financial support, manipulating children, abusing feelings)
____ Interrupting, changing topics, not listening, not responding, twisting her words, going on and on
____ Economic coercion (withholding money, the car, or other resources; sabotaging her attempts to work)
____ Claiming "the truth," being the authority, defining her behavior, using "logic"
____ Lying, withholding information, infidelity (having sex with others)
____ Using pornography (e.g., magazines, movies, strip shows, home videos, etc.)
____ Withholding help on childcare/housework; not doing your share or following through on your agreements
____ Emotional withholding (not expressing feelings, not giving support, validation, attention, compliments, respect for her feelings, rights, and opinions)
____ Not taking care of yourself (not asking for help or support from friends, abusing drugs or alcohol, being a "people-pleaser")
____ Other forms of manipulation
source: http://www.menstoppingviolence.org/LearnMore/checklist.php

The other thing is this: SB did not say he "may" have been abusing his wife. He said that he DID abuse his wife. Your comment seems quite foolish in light of this fact.

You should not be surprised that my friend turned against me. Often battered and abused women behave this way. They alienate friends and family in order to protect their abuser. They will do this up until the moment they decide they have had enouogh-then their friends and families are their greatest allies.

Here's why: Battered & abused women have a difficult choice to make-admit what's happening, stop keeping it secret, and face the possibility of being seriously harmed or even killed by their abuser, financial disruption, the break up of their family and-last but not least-dealing with the "maybe" sayers like you (maybe he wasn't abusing you in the true sense of the word...maybe it's your fault...) or they can adn do choose to hope against hope that the guy realizes he is wrong and just stops.

My ex friend is not a testimony to anything other than the hard choices that battered and abused women face everyday.

I find your screen name to be highly appropriate.

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