My work crunch is almost over, and I leave on vacation next Friday, so whatever isn't done - won't get done.
Now, I'm also ripping down the 1970's paneling in my house, and hoped to have the painter in while on vacation, and that's not working too well either. No drywall in some areas, and a neighbor's child got a nail in the foot yesterday while visiting.

I bought a pass to GP for next year, and really enjoyed my time away (all by myself) there staying at the 3 bear inn. I met great people every trip. The girls will go with me next year. I have to try hard to keep up with them.

I have so little to add to the dating posts. I can't even imagine where'd I'd find the time to date, life just seems so busy. Everything else is a priority for me right now. I can't wait to experience the calm at home when the paneling is all down, and the room is painted. Then I can complete my mid-century modern LR/DR. Picture a lime green sofa.
In between I'm trying to salvage the blueberry bushes. I think I lost the grape vines from lack of attention. And I have poison ivy.

Take Care.

GG,
I have absolutley no idea how to broach the subject. We are not discussing marriage yet. But, like lots of long time dating couples, those "little comments" do come out. You know, like "next year we'll. . ." or when he's helping me fix up my place adn I say, "where do you want this?" like it's his place.

I'm too scared at this time to think more long term, and there are some major differences in parenting that we are currently addressing, which need to be resolved before anything can ever happen. We are doing well with that, because of course I'm right and he's learning from me! LOL.

I guess I'll get a couple of the books and read through them and maybe I'll get some ieas of how to bring up the topic.

cm

This is all very intriguing to me. I've given these themes a good deal of thought.

Let me first suggest a book, from the author of "I Kissed Dating Goodby" - he later wrote "Say Hello to Courtship!" Joshua Harris is the author. Thought provoking!

I appreciated & agreed with what AGG said about dating without direction. Easy to do. But ignores reality & falls short of reaching important goals.

I will add a couple of comments:

1) "Drift-a-long" dating is very common. It is also incompatible with securing healthy long-term commitment in a marriage.

2) Too many of us have secumbed to the trappings of marriage, but in a non-committed drift-a-long dating deal. We are often (not accusing anyone here) physically far too intimate for the true stage of commitment we find ourselves capable of; which in turn wreaks utter confusion of mind & spirit. Put bluntly - not too many carts in front of horses move forward with any sort of efficiency & ultimate success. Along with intimacy, we behave like marrieds too quickly, in matters of finance, discipline of step kids, exclusivity expectations, expectations of time spent together, etc.

3) Far too many men are functioning as serial drift-a-long daters rather than taking up their God-given role of relationship leaders. Many men have become passive towards leading a relationship in a pre-determined & mutually agreed (POJA) upon path towards a successful conclusion. Mind you, "success" in a pre-marriage relationship is certainly valid IF you discover you are not ultimately compatible & have no business being married. To me THAT is equally successful as reaching engagement and then marriage.

What do you folks think?

Regards,

I don't know. I've been looking into books and I found one that I'm going to order. It was written by a psychoanalysist and includes theory, data and case studies. From what I can tell, his premise is that romantic love, which he defines very broadly, is what gives people the feeling life is worth living and full of purpose. Because RL is defined broadly it can include lots of kinds of love, but it doesn't not include what I call caring love, the act of taking care of someone or nurturing someone.

Anyway, this psychoanalysist theory is that romantic love is by its very nature unstable and changable. We humans want committment in order to ensure we keep the romantic love feeling, but the structure of committment clashes with the conditions necessary for romantic love to flourish.

Now, I haven't read the book yet, so I can't comment on it.

However, it's an interesting premise and worth investigating, even if at the end I end up disagreeing.

Personally, as I get further away from the drama of my marriage and as this new relationship continues to develop, I continue to question Dr. Harley's approach. I still think the love bank concept, along with LB and ENs, is a viable paradigm. But, I really wonder about plan A as an approach when there is no infidelty. Dr. H. has said Plan A won't work in cases of mental illness or addiction. However, there are a lot of spouses out there who don't respond to Plan A at all, yet fall short of mental illness.

So, I think there are often issues in marriages that go beyond the simple EN and LB model. A more complex paradigm may be needed for romantic love.

What often is not taken into account in all of this is the most universal truth of all....That Human Beings are born essentially and basically SELFISH!

That in turn requires that we turn to an entirely different paradigm to find true love, including the romantic portion of true LOVE.

Well, define "true love."

I don't know what that looks like any more. I sort of think all loves are "true" loves. If pressed, I'd even have to agree that affair loves are true loves, although they are also destructive and ignoble.

So, define "true love" and then, let me know what you think a new paradigm to find true love that takes into account human selfishness would look like.

BTW, glad you're chiming in. I find your posts thought provoking when it comes to this theoretical stuff. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

For starters: What is "UN" true love? Let's define that. I'll give it a start, and let you take it from there.

By the way, if I don't answer for a bit, it's just because I've got to fly a bunch starting about 3 PM today until Sunday night. So not ignoring, just can't get to I'net from the cockpit at 41,000 feet!!! hehehe

Just the visual EVERYONE needed huh?? "This is your captain speaking from the flight deck. Listen, I'm logged onto MarriageBuilders dot com, and am trying to help define True Love....ya'll set back & enjoy our flight to Denver today!!"

OK...UN true love for me includes this: It's FALSE love. Whenever something is false, by definition, it includes hiding, pretending, & lack of truth-telling by one to another. Boiled on down; when lies are present, there cannot be TRUE love. Witholding important information is false. Not telling the truth of feelings is false. So for me, it is impossible to have TRUE love in the context of an affair. It is an illusion propped up by many, many falsehoods, both between the affair parties & clearly to those surrounding their lives.

Or put very succinctly: "Love does not flourish in deceit...Love only flourishes in the truth".

Your turn to define......

good thoughts high flight... my definition would be my marriage... that was UN true love. sad but true. it was based purely on physical attraction and nothing else. yes, it is false. it is NOT something I believe you can build a relationship or marriage on at all. the only good that i got from it was my twins. they are awesome and came from a night right after our wedding when i believe we really thought we did love eachother. but nothing but sadness comes from untrue love. it just built resentments, and anger, and insanity. it brought about affairs on his part.

i don't ever want that again. i long, i truly deeply long to feel what true deep passionate love is. i want to love someone so much the emotions make me cry! hope i am not asking for too much or setting myself up for disappointment... mlhb