Okay here goes...

I have been reading on this site for several days now and have gotten enough courage to actually post. In viewing the many posts, I notice that there is a wealth of support for those who have been betrayed...and harsh words for those who have done the betraying...

All parties invovled in an A suffer, consequences, remorse, guilt, and shame. ALL PARTIES!!..I am a WW and since the OM is married, that also makes me the OW.

The affair has been going on for 15 months, and both of us at sometime or another have said that we need to end this, before more people are hurt, it is better that only he & I are hurt, than family & friends....Sounds simple....in our minds we know that we need to end this..it is the heart, that is talking louder....which makes it difficult to begin recovery with my H.

My H knows about the OM, he knows where he lives, his phone number, and has called him numerous times, left messages, and threatened to expose the A to the OM's W. My husband has made it clear that he wants to work on this marriage, that he wants me. The problem is I am not sure I still want to be in this marriage...and I know that I cannot choose the OM either, he is not looking to leave his other life... guess we both wanted to "have our cake and eat it too"...

Although I know that I need to have NC and cut off all ties with the OM to honestly repair my marriage...it is very very difficult to let go of the OM as he has opened my heart and soul and made me feel alive for the first time in a very very long time....

I am asking for advice..and I know the truth hurts..I am sorry that I have hurt my H so deeply, I had never know how much he loved me...until now...part of me feels that it is just too late ....

WW 44
H 47
3 children 20-16-14
Married 22 years together 26 years

OM 50
married 27 years together 29 years
grown children 25-23-21

All Ws' are either an OW or OM. No revelation there.

But you asked for help so here goes:

1. Read the following: His Needs/Her Needs and Surviving an afffair (both are by Harley) Read the basic concepts above

2. Take the emotional needs questionnaire

3. Then call Jennifer C @ MB for some phone counseling for you 1st then you and your H.

Does your H read here @ MB? Right now you both need to concentrate on you and your H.

Send a NC letter to him and cease all communication with the OM. If he persists, contact authorities and expose him to his W.

Be glad your H wants to work on the M. You have caused damage and you must pariticpate in the repair of that damage. Your H has some resposibility to repair the M from his side also. Together your M can succeed.

Expect your H to get upset. There are stages a BS goes through during recovery. You can both read about them in the stages of grieving link in my sig line.

Keep reading and posting here.

take care,
L.

Hello 2,

There will be others here shortly but for starters look at my thread "Is there something wrong with me". It was a rhetorical question. I know that is nothing wrong with me, there is something however wrong with my WW and STBXW. She is in a fantasy world, living a fool's dream like so many WW's. You have to be selfless enough and strong enough to let your heart wrestle with your head. Do you know what % of affairs end up happily everafter? Have you read posts by other WW's that were ready to leave everything they own to be with OM only to discover that they are now disgusted with OM. Do you not see the character flaws in this man that would cheat on his W with you, hurt his family, hurt your family, your husband, and so on. This is not a man that should give you goosebumps and unfortunately you are not a woman that should be giving him goosebumps. You are both living a lie and a fantasy.

What is about OM that makes you feel so alive? Did you never feel this way with your H? Could it be because OM and you are playing in la la land and not having to deal with real world issues, like finances, not enough time together, raising children, caring for older parents, and so on. These feelings will not last and you will destroy your life and be left wondering what might have been if I had spoken with, talked to, worked with, made love to and put as much into my M as I am this affair.

The fact that you are here asking questions places you above about 90% of the WS's out there and gives you and your marriage hope.

The only way to get over and past the pain..is to begin the process of no contact..

one minute
one hour
one day
one week at a time...

it MUST be done...otherwise you choose to hurt others with each and every contact....

marriage builders can not help you unless you are willing to begin the process....

you can beget post after post of people begging...imploring...addressing the need for no contact..

the reason for no contact
etc
etc
etc...

but there is no other answer than it must start...

just start the process of no contact..

there is no such thing as closure
there is no such thing as soul mates

but why does the BS suffer guilt and shame for the actions of a wayward spouse...
I'm not sure I understand that part...

the bottom line question

is when are you starting your no contact exactly??


that's the only way marriage builders can help
ARK

please note that I agree with you about your pain and others...

but the ONLY way to stop the pain is to stop the contact...

you will have to move through the pain and process it..

do you work with the OM
is he friends of the family...

is no contact a reality in your day to day life..or will you have to make major changes...

ARK

2Crazy,

I have been reading on this site for several days now and have gotten enough courage to actually post.

I'm glad <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Sometimes what you hear won't be comfortable....but courage is reward in itself.

In viewing the many posts, I notice that there is a wealth of support for those who have been betrayed...and harsh words for those who have done the betraying...

"Support" is a tricky word chere. One of the definitions is this: be behind; approve of; argue or speak in defense of;

But another is: give moral or psychological support, aid, or courage to;

You're going to get plenty of the latter....and not much of the former. I can't support you if I give encourage or aid you to make unethical choices. I truly believe infidelity is an unethical choice.....so my "brand" of support will be to give you courage and confidence to do the right thing.

All parties invovled in an A suffer, consequences, remorse, guilt, and shame. ALL PARTIES!!

Yes they do. Adultery is an equal opportunity destroyer. No one is safe from the ravages....no you, your husband, the other wife, any of the children involved....even your families and sometimes your community.

..I am a WW and since the OM is married, that also makes me the OW.

Hard hats to wear.

The affair has been going on for 15 months, and both of us at sometime or another have said that we need to end this, before more people are hurt, it is better that only he & I are hurt, than family & friends....Sounds simple....in our minds we know that we need to end this

The biochemistry of affairs mirrors the effects of crack cocaine on the brain....you're both addicted. And yes...it's very hard to break.

..it is the heart, that is talking louder....which makes it difficult to begin recovery with my H.

NO...it is NOT in the heart. It is in the "reward system" of the brain. Your limbic system, your "animal brain". Scientific research confirms what psychologists have suspected for years. Here's an article to help you understand:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/hottopics/love/

When you read the part about how the "attraction phase" makes you kinda crazy and blind.....imagine yourself right there okay?

My H knows about the OM, he knows where he lives, his phone number, and has called him numerous times, left messages, and threatened to expose the A to the OM's W.

How sad and desperate he must be feeling. I wish he would tell the other spouse....even better....I wish you would. If you TRULY want to end it....that's honestly, the best way I know how. It accomplishes accountability from both ends.

My husband has made it clear that he wants to work on this marriage, that he wants me. The problem is I am not sure I still want to be in this marriage...and I know that I cannot choose the OM either, he is not looking to leave his other life... guess we both wanted to "have our cake and eat it too"...

So you're willing to throw away a man who wants you desperately for one you have no hope of ever having? Does that sound healthy to you?

Although I know that I need to have NC and cut off all ties with the OM to honestly repair my marriage...it is very very difficult to let go of the OM as he has opened my heart and soul and made me feel alive for the first time in a very very long time....

No chere....he has triggered the reward system of your brain.....something your husband did while you two were courting. But that "high" is UNSUSTAINABLE....in order to keep it....you'd have to change partners every two years!! Read the research. I know what the FEELS like....but please....imagine what a drug addict feels....is that real? You're in an altered state....it might be just biochemical rather than synthetic....but they do the same thing...alter your mind.

I am asking for advice..and I know the truth hurts..I am sorry that I have hurt my H so deeply, I had never know how much he loved me...until now...part of me feels that it is just too late ....

It's not too late!! I speak from experience. Don't throw your life (or your children's daddy) away on a fantasy. We'll help!!

Well, 2crazy, Welcome to MB... you've come to the right place if you truly want to save your marraige.


These words have been spoken by almost every active WS over the years (me, included).

I'm really tempted to put a --> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> right here, because it's just so darned PREDICTABLE.

Of course you feel this way! The OM is meeting your needs, filling your love bank, and making you feel alive - guilt, remorse or not.

(And yes, everyone is suffering, but at the moment, I feel sorriest for the betrayed spouses - one who knows and is fighting for his marriage, and the other who doesn't even know the truth about her own marriage.)

But back to your quote: It's embarrassing how ALIKE WS's are in the thought processes -- how we revise the marriage history to make it fit the "I just don't know if I want to save this marriage" mode... embarrassing, humiliating and sickening. I should know, I did it myself.

So, do you really, truly want to stop the affair? And is it because IT'S THE RIGHT THING TO DO... aside from saving your marriage, which is secondary to saving your integrity. Affairs are messy business, as you know, and it's hard to feel honorable when you're in them.

Saving self can lead to saving your marriage...

How would you go about having NO CONTACT with your affair partner? Maybe that's a place to begin...

Hi 2crazy, another welcome for you. I am also a FWW.

You have gotten a lot of great advice here but there is something i wanted to make sure you don't miss...

Ending this affair is not first and formost for the marriage, it is about you...

saving your integrity

you asked in another topic...


when you married, did you plan on not staying faithful?

look at yourself from the outside... is this what you wanted for yourself? is this what you expect from yourself?

this is about you, not your marriage or your relationship with your BH. it is about you.

look deep down into your soul.

are these actions true to the person you want to be?

2crazy hang in there
You did the right thing coming to MB.

My WW is in the same shoes you’re in she didn’t start feeling the pain until after
I exposed to OMW and in her turn exposed it to everybody else.

At least you had the courage to ask for help and you will get a lot of it here,
Call on FWW; they will help you clear things up.

I know what your H is going through, I’m still hurting it’s hard to breath sometime,
My WW is still in the fog, I don’t know if contact has been broken yet.

Step back and look at what you got at home a H that loves you despite what you did to him, and he is willing to work on the M. according to you OM is not willing to lose
His wife, so think how special you must be for him, he is probably a sweet talker, a good listener he is making you think that he is your soul mate, bla bla bla.

All you are to him is a side dish, for his own pleasure.

And guess what the good feelings will eventually fade away and the pain will start.

Go back to your H, call OMW and stop all contact with him. Then work on your M.
This A is taking you nowhere.

Good luck.
Tony.

Thanks hopeandpray...



THis is the first time in my life I have been selfish, I have spent my life doing what everyone expects of me. And doing for everyone else.

When we have spent time together we do discuss children..life...and a variety of everyday things. It is not always about sex..sometimes the gratifcation is just in being with each other.

Not sure if my husband ever made me feel these things, if he did was a very long time ago...we married young, because it was what the next step, and everyone thought he was GREAT!...

Yes, I am here asking questions, mostly of myself...that is where the healing has to start

thanks for your insight

2

How about emailing me at the address below. I got a file I want to share with you that I gave my wife last spring. It's copyrighted stuff that I can't post here but I can share it with MB friends off the board. Maybe it will assist you in your life altering decision process.

My address is below. It is a shared account with my wife so there is nothing inappropriate about it.

Mr. Wondering

No we do not work together, we actually live about 1 1/2 hours from each other...approx. 1/2 hr to 35 minutes for each of us from our work place.

No contact means making daily ...more like hourly adjustments to my daily routine....

we met on the internet...we e-mail everyday...and spend time with each other at least 1 every 2 weeks, often times once a week...

we have taken vacation days from work, to spend the day together, doing "normal" things...like shopping and washing the car...

we have become great friends and lovers...that is what makes the NO CONTACT so difficult...

However, I am not a fool, I know that in order to honestly repair this marriage ...that I MUST get myself to the NC place quickly!...that is why I am here!

thank you ...

you are sooooo right. Spoken like one who has been there...yes affairs are messy..complicated...and wrong...

I have struggled with that over & over...knowing that what I am doing is wrong..but in so deep (more than I had ever expected or realized) and not wanting to hurt anyone involved...(not possible I know!)

I don't think either one of us, ever expected this to continue or become this involved..and even though the OM knows that my H knows ..he is also still willing to risk everything...we are either both really twisted...or really addicted....

So I am hoping that reading from those who have been down the path as well, will wake me up...

So I continue to read on...purge my feelings...and try to implement a new process to begin to allow myself to let go of my heart and listen to my head!....

2crazy,

Hi, I'm a BS....really a FBS...because my W has began the process of coming back to me!!! It has been an insane 10 months.....my W told me that she "fell outta love with me, but loved me".....Sound familar????? They all are....I let my wife go to OM for 6 months.....guess what????? As soon as they were allowed to experience ALL of themselves to each other....my FWW started going from living in the here and now to all of a sudden thinking about the future..........AND IT WAS BLEAK!!! It is a fantasy my dear......unique to affairs....the Devil at work, so to speak....temptation is one of his tools.

My FWW and I are progressing through recovery. 8 months ago my W told me that she had fell out of love with me "a long time ago" and in an email she sent to me yesterday: "I'll be thanking you for the rest of my life."

How could she switch like that????? She was so sure 8 months ago (enough to leave me, our house and a 4 and 6 year old!!) Now......she has so much remorse.....yes 2 crazy....you are being affected by a brain chemical, read the articles....oh those "feelings" are so real,,,aren't they?????? Just like cocaine, heroin, alcohol, nicotine....they are all there...and you justify them all....unless you want OUT of the business of destroying peoples lives....you are a committed woman!!!! "Forsake ALL others.....through good times and BAD!!!!

Those vows in no way say...."unless you find someone else who makes YOU feel better.

I'm going to give you a hug now....[[[[2Crazy]]]]]....now do the right thing.

MWIL

No he isn't. You said he is not willing to leave his "other" life. Would he be willing to risk everything if his wife knew or can he safely say the above because he knows he doesn't have to face anything right now except your H's hurt, which means nothing to him? He hasn't had to face his wife's hurt which WILL mean something to him I can assure you.

I am the FWW by the way and had an 18 month A in 2002/03.

When are you going to tell OMW that you're having an affair with her H? Your H knows and is suffering...choosing to stay in the marriage for now...

OMW doesn't have that choice...she doesn't know.

Tell her, please. 213 wrote from his heart...please tell OMW right away...while you decide...

And have you been reading the other WW threads? They say the same things you do...to the word...always gave to everyone but you...didn't expect this...etc. You are following a wayward script...you are not unique, nor is your OM...your relationship is not unique...it is very routine...

You created, fed and nurtured the resentment that fueled your entitlement to have an affair...and you chose to believe someone could make you...through neglect, not feeling loved, cherished or having that spark...you did that. You love resentment more, fantasy more than reality. Until you get that straight and knowingly choose to live that way...then you will continue to replace people...I imagine this isn't your first EA, maybe your first PA...you've had a fantasy going, comparing him to your BH, over and over again...with a lot of if-only's and what-ifs...

Your feelings come from your beliefs...and your brain cannot tell reality from fantasy...you've taught it to have an affair...believe it real...your heart doesn't want to betray itself...and that's what you're doing...you're artificially feeling, not real. Not your heart.

No one can wake you up, either. That's all you. Only you control you...they can't make you feel, wake up, stop you from enviscerating two whole families, give you integrity or self-esteem, or change your life...

Only you can. Your OM is risking nothing at all...he threw away his family, his wife and children, for a fantasy...there's no risk in fantasy...easy for us to live as if we aren't doing exactly what we are...as you have for years, and as he has, for years...because you don't see you chose your life, every step of the way.

And you're still choosing. Full choice is yours. You're human.

New process...tell OMW...tell your H and children each time you email, see or talk to OM...choose to be honest with yourself and with your family.

LA

2Crazy, this is a very old post which has been helpful for many:

Help for betrayers who want to stop, but can't...

Ultimately only you can exert willpower over your own actions.

TA

Hi 2crazy

I am a BH just like yours, next time you talk to your H look into his eyes and you can see his pain, look deeper and you will see the reason for his pain, if he loves you as much
As I love my WW you will be able to see that love, just look into your heart, and imagine your H gone, would you miss him? Would you cry if he dies? If you do then you still have feelings for him, rebuilding the love is not an easy task; it’s a long journey,
I’m writing for you because I’m in the same boat as your H and if I can help you see
His truth and his love for you, I will feel that I helped myself in the process; it will give me hope for my marriage.
I feel that I know your H already.
Love is not a feeling it’s a verb you have to act upon it, the feeling will follow, I know your H is not a saint, but have you ever told him what you needed from him?
Because we men don’t know crap about what women need.

Your choice 2 your choice to Love your choice to leave.
But if you don’t try everything to save your marriage first you might one day regret it,
You might say what IF.

Tony

As another betrayed husband (like the previous poster) I can't tell you how much your first
message bothers me. (I am generally just a lurker and this has made me decide to register.)

There is so much dishonesty with your husband. It sickens me.

You think TELLING him the truth will kill him? It won't,but dishonesty will damage him much more than the truth ever will.

Below is 2Crazy's first post from a different topic:

"Okay here is my first post. I too am a WW guess that
makes me the OW as well. Yes, the OM is married too. My
H knows that I have been having an A in some format..for about 5 months, although it has actually
been 15 months.
H doesn't know how far the A has gone, I am sure he suspects, but being totaly honest with him
would kill him.

The OM is someone I met on the internet, we meet quite regularly, mostly through the afternoon
although lately that has become more difficult, with H not trusting me.
We don't always have sex...most times we just sit and talk, just being near each other seems to be
enough to get us through.

My H now knows where this OM lives, his phone number, and has talked to the OM on the phone.
My concern seems to be in protecting the OM. I worry about ruining his marriage more than mine.

reading these many posts, has given me some insight,
mostly into how the BS feels..I would love to know how
other WW have gotten through the withdrawl, and the addiction of the OM.

I just can't seem to handle NC, and neither can he...
even though we both know what is at stake. Why can't
we have both???? "

2crazy,

Two quotes from your last two posts.

"When we have spent time together we do discuss children..life...and a variety of everyday things."

"we have taken vacation days from work, to spend the day together, doing "normal" things...like shopping and washing the car..."



You seem to believe that your relationship with OM is "normal" or "everyday". Your relationship with the OM is a fantasy. It is not real life. Lets start a list of things that you must do in a loving long term relationship that are missing from your relationship with OM.

1. Clean the bathroom.
2. Clean the litter box.
3. Take the kids to the doctor.
4. Get the car repaired.
5. Hang curtains.

Any others?????

I wish you the best of luck.