Okay here goes...

I have been reading on this site for several days now and have gotten enough courage to actually post. In viewing the many posts, I notice that there is a wealth of support for those who have been betrayed...and harsh words for those who have done the betraying...

All parties invovled in an A suffer, consequences, remorse, guilt, and shame. ALL PARTIES!!..I am a WW and since the OM is married, that also makes me the OW.

The affair has been going on for 15 months, and both of us at sometime or another have said that we need to end this, before more people are hurt, it is better that only he & I are hurt, than family & friends....Sounds simple....in our minds we know that we need to end this..it is the heart, that is talking louder....which makes it difficult to begin recovery with my H.

My H knows about the OM, he knows where he lives, his phone number, and has called him numerous times, left messages, and threatened to expose the A to the OM's W. My husband has made it clear that he wants to work on this marriage, that he wants me. The problem is I am not sure I still want to be in this marriage...and I know that I cannot choose the OM either, he is not looking to leave his other life... guess we both wanted to "have our cake and eat it too"...

Although I know that I need to have NC and cut off all ties with the OM to honestly repair my marriage...it is very very difficult to let go of the OM as he has opened my heart and soul and made me feel alive for the first time in a very very long time....

I am asking for advice..and I know the truth hurts..I am sorry that I have hurt my H so deeply, I had never know how much he loved me...until now...part of me feels that it is just too late ....

WW 44
H 47
3 children 20-16-14
Married 22 years together 26 years

OM 50
married 27 years together 29 years
grown children 25-23-21

All Ws' are either an OW or OM. No revelation there.

But you asked for help so here goes:

1. Read the following: His Needs/Her Needs and Surviving an afffair (both are by Harley) Read the basic concepts above

2. Take the emotional needs questionnaire

3. Then call Jennifer C @ MB for some phone counseling for you 1st then you and your H.

Does your H read here @ MB? Right now you both need to concentrate on you and your H.

Send a NC letter to him and cease all communication with the OM. If he persists, contact authorities and expose him to his W.

Be glad your H wants to work on the M. You have caused damage and you must pariticpate in the repair of that damage. Your H has some resposibility to repair the M from his side also. Together your M can succeed.

Expect your H to get upset. There are stages a BS goes through during recovery. You can both read about them in the stages of grieving link in my sig line.

Keep reading and posting here.

take care,
L.

Hello 2,

There will be others here shortly but for starters look at my thread "Is there something wrong with me". It was a rhetorical question. I know that is nothing wrong with me, there is something however wrong with my WW and STBXW. She is in a fantasy world, living a fool's dream like so many WW's. You have to be selfless enough and strong enough to let your heart wrestle with your head. Do you know what % of affairs end up happily everafter? Have you read posts by other WW's that were ready to leave everything they own to be with OM only to discover that they are now disgusted with OM. Do you not see the character flaws in this man that would cheat on his W with you, hurt his family, hurt your family, your husband, and so on. This is not a man that should give you goosebumps and unfortunately you are not a woman that should be giving him goosebumps. You are both living a lie and a fantasy.

What is about OM that makes you feel so alive? Did you never feel this way with your H? Could it be because OM and you are playing in la la land and not having to deal with real world issues, like finances, not enough time together, raising children, caring for older parents, and so on. These feelings will not last and you will destroy your life and be left wondering what might have been if I had spoken with, talked to, worked with, made love to and put as much into my M as I am this affair.

The fact that you are here asking questions places you above about 90% of the WS's out there and gives you and your marriage hope.

The only way to get over and past the pain..is to begin the process of no contact..

one minute
one hour
one day
one week at a time...

it MUST be done...otherwise you choose to hurt others with each and every contact....

marriage builders can not help you unless you are willing to begin the process....

you can beget post after post of people begging...imploring...addressing the need for no contact..

the reason for no contact
etc
etc
etc...

but there is no other answer than it must start...

just start the process of no contact..

there is no such thing as closure
there is no such thing as soul mates

but why does the BS suffer guilt and shame for the actions of a wayward spouse...
I'm not sure I understand that part...

the bottom line question

is when are you starting your no contact exactly??


that's the only way marriage builders can help
ARK

please note that I agree with you about your pain and others...

but the ONLY way to stop the pain is to stop the contact...

you will have to move through the pain and process it..

do you work with the OM
is he friends of the family...

is no contact a reality in your day to day life..or will you have to make major changes...

ARK

2Crazy,

I have been reading on this site for several days now and have gotten enough courage to actually post.

I'm glad <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Sometimes what you hear won't be comfortable....but courage is reward in itself.

In viewing the many posts, I notice that there is a wealth of support for those who have been betrayed...and harsh words for those who have done the betraying...

"Support" is a tricky word chere. One of the definitions is this: be behind; approve of; argue or speak in defense of;

But another is: give moral or psychological support, aid, or courage to;

You're going to get plenty of the latter....and not much of the former. I can't support you if I give encourage or aid you to make unethical choices. I truly believe infidelity is an unethical choice.....so my "brand" of support will be to give you courage and confidence to do the right thing.

All parties invovled in an A suffer, consequences, remorse, guilt, and shame. ALL PARTIES!!

Yes they do. Adultery is an equal opportunity destroyer. No one is safe from the ravages....no you, your husband, the other wife, any of the children involved....even your families and sometimes your community.

..I am a WW and since the OM is married, that also makes me the OW.

Hard hats to wear.

The affair has been going on for 15 months, and both of us at sometime or another have said that we need to end this, before more people are hurt, it is better that only he & I are hurt, than family & friends....Sounds simple....in our minds we know that we need to end this

The biochemistry of affairs mirrors the effects of crack cocaine on the brain....you're both addicted. And yes...it's very hard to break.

..it is the heart, that is talking louder....which makes it difficult to begin recovery with my H.

NO...it is NOT in the heart. It is in the "reward system" of the brain. Your limbic system, your "animal brain". Scientific research confirms what psychologists have suspected for years. Here's an article to help you understand:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/hottopics/love/

When you read the part about how the "attraction phase" makes you kinda crazy and blind.....imagine yourself right there okay?

My H knows about the OM, he knows where he lives, his phone number, and has called him numerous times, left messages, and threatened to expose the A to the OM's W.

How sad and desperate he must be feeling. I wish he would tell the other spouse....even better....I wish you would. If you TRULY want to end it....that's honestly, the best way I know how. It accomplishes accountability from both ends.

My husband has made it clear that he wants to work on this marriage, that he wants me. The problem is I am not sure I still want to be in this marriage...and I know that I cannot choose the OM either, he is not looking to leave his other life... guess we both wanted to "have our cake and eat it too"...

So you're willing to throw away a man who wants you desperately for one you have no hope of ever having? Does that sound healthy to you?

Although I know that I need to have NC and cut off all ties with the OM to honestly repair my marriage...it is very very difficult to let go of the OM as he has opened my heart and soul and made me feel alive for the first time in a very very long time....

No chere....he has triggered the reward system of your brain.....something your husband did while you two were courting. But that "high" is UNSUSTAINABLE....in order to keep it....you'd have to change partners every two years!! Read the research. I know what the FEELS like....but please....imagine what a drug addict feels....is that real? You're in an altered state....it might be just biochemical rather than synthetic....but they do the same thing...alter your mind.

I am asking for advice..and I know the truth hurts..I am sorry that I have hurt my H so deeply, I had never know how much he loved me...until now...part of me feels that it is just too late ....

It's not too late!! I speak from experience. Don't throw your life (or your children's daddy) away on a fantasy. We'll help!!

Well, 2crazy, Welcome to MB... you've come to the right place if you truly want to save your marraige.


These words have been spoken by almost every active WS over the years (me, included).

I'm really tempted to put a --> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> right here, because it's just so darned PREDICTABLE.

Of course you feel this way! The OM is meeting your needs, filling your love bank, and making you feel alive - guilt, remorse or not.

(And yes, everyone is suffering, but at the moment, I feel sorriest for the betrayed spouses - one who knows and is fighting for his marriage, and the other who doesn't even know the truth about her own marriage.)

But back to your quote: It's embarrassing how ALIKE WS's are in the thought processes -- how we revise the marriage history to make it fit the "I just don't know if I want to save this marriage" mode... embarrassing, humiliating and sickening. I should know, I did it myself.

So, do you really, truly want to stop the affair? And is it because IT'S THE RIGHT THING TO DO... aside from saving your marriage, which is secondary to saving your integrity. Affairs are messy business, as you know, and it's hard to feel honorable when you're in them.

Saving self can lead to saving your marriage...

How would you go about having NO CONTACT with your affair partner? Maybe that's a place to begin...

Hi 2crazy, another welcome for you. I am also a FWW.

You have gotten a lot of great advice here but there is something i wanted to make sure you don't miss...

Ending this affair is not first and formost for the marriage, it is about you...

saving your integrity

you asked in another topic...


when you married, did you plan on not staying faithful?

look at yourself from the outside... is this what you wanted for yourself? is this what you expect from yourself?

this is about you, not your marriage or your relationship with your BH. it is about you.

look deep down into your soul.

are these actions true to the person you want to be?

2crazy hang in there
You did the right thing coming to MB.

My WW is in the same shoes you’re in she didn’t start feeling the pain until after
I exposed to OMW and in her turn exposed it to everybody else.

At least you had the courage to ask for help and you will get a lot of it here,
Call on FWW; they will help you clear things up.

I know what your H is going through, I’m still hurting it’s hard to breath sometime,
My WW is still in the fog, I don’t know if contact has been broken yet.

Step back and look at what you got at home a H that loves you despite what you did to him, and he is willing to work on the M. according to you OM is not willing to lose
His wife, so think how special you must be for him, he is probably a sweet talker, a good listener he is making you think that he is your soul mate, bla bla bla.

All you are to him is a side dish, for his own pleasure.

And guess what the good feelings will eventually fade away and the pain will start.

Go back to your H, call OMW and stop all contact with him. Then work on your M.
This A is taking you nowhere.

Good luck.
Tony.

Thanks hopeandpray...



THis is the first time in my life I have been selfish, I have spent my life doing what everyone expects of me. And doing for everyone else.

When we have spent time together we do discuss children..life...and a variety of everyday things. It is not always about sex..sometimes the gratifcation is just in being with each other.

Not sure if my husband ever made me feel these things, if he did was a very long time ago...we married young, because it was what the next step, and everyone thought he was GREAT!...

Yes, I am here asking questions, mostly of myself...that is where the healing has to start

thanks for your insight

2

How about emailing me at the address below. I got a file I want to share with you that I gave my wife last spring. It's copyrighted stuff that I can't post here but I can share it with MB friends off the board. Maybe it will assist you in your life altering decision process.

My address is below. It is a shared account with my wife so there is nothing inappropriate about it.

Mr. Wondering

No we do not work together, we actually live about 1 1/2 hours from each other...approx. 1/2 hr to 35 minutes for each of us from our work place.

No contact means making daily ...more like hourly adjustments to my daily routine....

we met on the internet...we e-mail everyday...and spend time with each other at least 1 every 2 weeks, often times once a week...

we have taken vacation days from work, to spend the day together, doing "normal" things...like shopping and washing the car...

we have become great friends and lovers...that is what makes the NO CONTACT so difficult...

However, I am not a fool, I know that in order to honestly repair this marriage ...that I MUST get myself to the NC place quickly!...that is why I am here!

thank you ...

you are sooooo right. Spoken like one who has been there...yes affairs are messy..complicated...and wrong...

I have struggled with that over & over...knowing that what I am doing is wrong..but in so deep (more than I had ever expected or realized) and not wanting to hurt anyone involved...(not possible I know!)

I don't think either one of us, ever expected this to continue or become this involved..and even though the OM knows that my H knows ..he is also still willing to risk everything...we are either both really twisted...or really addicted....

So I am hoping that reading from those who have been down the path as well, will wake me up...

So I continue to read on...purge my feelings...and try to implement a new process to begin to allow myself to let go of my heart and listen to my head!....

2crazy,

Hi, I'm a BS....really a FBS...because my W has began the process of coming back to me!!! It has been an insane 10 months.....my W told me that she "fell outta love with me, but loved me".....Sound familar????? They all are....I let my wife go to OM for 6 months.....guess what????? As soon as they were allowed to experience ALL of themselves to each other....my FWW started going from living in the here and now to all of a sudden thinking about the future..........AND IT WAS BLEAK!!! It is a fantasy my dear......unique to affairs....the Devil at work, so to speak....temptation is one of his tools.

My FWW and I are progressing through recovery. 8 months ago my W told me that she had fell out of love with me "a long time ago" and in an email she sent to me yesterday: "I'll be thanking you for the rest of my life."

How could she switch like that????? She was so sure 8 months ago (enough to leave me, our house and a 4 and 6 year old!!) Now......she has so much remorse.....yes 2 crazy....you are being affected by a brain chemical, read the articles....oh those "feelings" are so real,,,aren't they?????? Just like cocaine, heroin, alcohol, nicotine....they are all there...and you justify them all....unless you want OUT of the business of destroying peoples lives....you are a committed woman!!!! "Forsake ALL others.....through good times and BAD!!!!

Those vows in no way say...."unless you find someone else who makes YOU feel better.

I'm going to give you a hug now....[[[[2Crazy]]]]]....now do the right thing.

MWIL

No he isn't. You said he is not willing to leave his "other" life. Would he be willing to risk everything if his wife knew or can he safely say the above because he knows he doesn't have to face anything right now except your H's hurt, which means nothing to him? He hasn't had to face his wife's hurt which WILL mean something to him I can assure you.

I am the FWW by the way and had an 18 month A in 2002/03.

When are you going to tell OMW that you're having an affair with her H? Your H knows and is suffering...choosing to stay in the marriage for now...

OMW doesn't have that choice...she doesn't know.

Tell her, please. 213 wrote from his heart...please tell OMW right away...while you decide...

And have you been reading the other WW threads? They say the same things you do...to the word...always gave to everyone but you...didn't expect this...etc. You are following a wayward script...you are not unique, nor is your OM...your relationship is not unique...it is very routine...

You created, fed and nurtured the resentment that fueled your entitlement to have an affair...and you chose to believe someone could make you...through neglect, not feeling loved, cherished or having that spark...you did that. You love resentment more, fantasy more than reality. Until you get that straight and knowingly choose to live that way...then you will continue to replace people...I imagine this isn't your first EA, maybe your first PA...you've had a fantasy going, comparing him to your BH, over and over again...with a lot of if-only's and what-ifs...

Your feelings come from your beliefs...and your brain cannot tell reality from fantasy...you've taught it to have an affair...believe it real...your heart doesn't want to betray itself...and that's what you're doing...you're artificially feeling, not real. Not your heart.

No one can wake you up, either. That's all you. Only you control you...they can't make you feel, wake up, stop you from enviscerating two whole families, give you integrity or self-esteem, or change your life...

Only you can. Your OM is risking nothing at all...he threw away his family, his wife and children, for a fantasy...there's no risk in fantasy...easy for us to live as if we aren't doing exactly what we are...as you have for years, and as he has, for years...because you don't see you chose your life, every step of the way.

And you're still choosing. Full choice is yours. You're human.

New process...tell OMW...tell your H and children each time you email, see or talk to OM...choose to be honest with yourself and with your family.

LA

2Crazy, this is a very old post which has been helpful for many:

Help for betrayers who want to stop, but can't...

Ultimately only you can exert willpower over your own actions.

TA

Hi 2crazy

I am a BH just like yours, next time you talk to your H look into his eyes and you can see his pain, look deeper and you will see the reason for his pain, if he loves you as much
As I love my WW you will be able to see that love, just look into your heart, and imagine your H gone, would you miss him? Would you cry if he dies? If you do then you still have feelings for him, rebuilding the love is not an easy task; it’s a long journey,
I’m writing for you because I’m in the same boat as your H and if I can help you see
His truth and his love for you, I will feel that I helped myself in the process; it will give me hope for my marriage.
I feel that I know your H already.
Love is not a feeling it’s a verb you have to act upon it, the feeling will follow, I know your H is not a saint, but have you ever told him what you needed from him?
Because we men don’t know crap about what women need.

Your choice 2 your choice to Love your choice to leave.
But if you don’t try everything to save your marriage first you might one day regret it,
You might say what IF.

Tony

As another betrayed husband (like the previous poster) I can't tell you how much your first
message bothers me. (I am generally just a lurker and this has made me decide to register.)

There is so much dishonesty with your husband. It sickens me.

You think TELLING him the truth will kill him? It won't,but dishonesty will damage him much more than the truth ever will.

Below is 2Crazy's first post from a different topic:

"Okay here is my first post. I too am a WW guess that
makes me the OW as well. Yes, the OM is married too. My
H knows that I have been having an A in some format..for about 5 months, although it has actually
been 15 months.
H doesn't know how far the A has gone, I am sure he suspects, but being totaly honest with him
would kill him.

The OM is someone I met on the internet, we meet quite regularly, mostly through the afternoon
although lately that has become more difficult, with H not trusting me.
We don't always have sex...most times we just sit and talk, just being near each other seems to be
enough to get us through.

My H now knows where this OM lives, his phone number, and has talked to the OM on the phone.
My concern seems to be in protecting the OM. I worry about ruining his marriage more than mine.

reading these many posts, has given me some insight,
mostly into how the BS feels..I would love to know how
other WW have gotten through the withdrawl, and the addiction of the OM.

I just can't seem to handle NC, and neither can he...
even though we both know what is at stake. Why can't
we have both???? "

2crazy,

Two quotes from your last two posts.

"When we have spent time together we do discuss children..life...and a variety of everyday things."

"we have taken vacation days from work, to spend the day together, doing "normal" things...like shopping and washing the car..."



You seem to believe that your relationship with OM is "normal" or "everyday". Your relationship with the OM is a fantasy. It is not real life. Lets start a list of things that you must do in a loving long term relationship that are missing from your relationship with OM.

1. Clean the bathroom.
2. Clean the litter box.
3. Take the kids to the doctor.
4. Get the car repaired.
5. Hang curtains.

Any others?????

I wish you the best of luck.

honey, if you want a fantasy wtih your H, book a week at hedonism...live a different life WITH YOUR H FOR A WHILE...

you see dearie,

when REAL LIFE gets in the way of the original romance you had with your H in its early days, M becomes comfortable...a nice but predictable place to be in.

let's face it...when a M becomes predictable it's because you're both in a comfort zone..and THAT IS GOOD...much better than chaos.

and it's NOT romantic to : pay bills, save up for kids' college education, wake up at 2 am to feed a baby, clean the house, scrub the toilet, take the dogs for a walk, be the school room mother for your kids' class, cook dinner and work a full day at the office away from the work that is at home...and this is the same thing the OM does at home.

YOUR AFFAIR IS [censored] AND BULL HONEY. IT'S SMOKE AND MIRRORS...IT IS FANTASY. NOTHING MORE. BUILT ON SELF GRATIFICATION PURE AND SIMPLE.

if you want the sparks back in your marriage, first learn his needs/her needs...get that book. confess to OMW and to YOUR PRECIOUS H...who is so much more of a man than OM is b/c he is actually WILLING TO TAKE YOUR [censored] BACK. write a NC letter and stick to it...fully aware you're fantasy life will call you back and you'll endure withdrawal from the FAKE LIFE...YEA IT'S A FAKE LIFE...

100 PERCENT PLASTIC RELATIONSHIP...THE AFFAIR...

it's self serving...totally. very narcissistic in nature.

I have a coworker...female in her early 50's..very attractive for her age...she felt her M was "romanceless"..so I urged her to get HNHN...and do the exercise...then she did it...and she also booked a week at an all inclusive resort for couples' only for them...sent the teenagers to the sisters' house for the week...and they went "shopping" at an ahem...adult store?

they now once a year have their "it's all about me" week and they do nothing but meet each other's en's totally...and reconnect and as she put it, HAVE AN AFFAIR WTIH HER OWN HUSBAND.

it can be done. I know em' and they're doing awesome <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Peachy, you are wise beyond your years......

2crazy, what have you decided to do?

Are you going to continue meeting OM for 'nooners'
behind your husband's back?

2crazy's earlier post: "The OM is someone I met on the internet, we meet quite regularly, mostly through the afternoon although lately that has become more difficult, with H not trusting me.

We don't always have sex...most times we just sit and talk, just being near each other seems to be
enough to get us through."

HOW CAN YOU CONTINUE DOING THIS TO YOUR HUSBAND AND FAMILY? HOW?

2,

The right thing isn't always the easiest thing to do BUT guess what? It is always the right thing to do.

You want to do the right thing or you would most certainly not be on this board. You would be on one where people tell you what you want to here not what you need to hear.

Whether or not your M or the OM's M survives is no longer your call. But what is your call and responsibility is to have everyone working from the same playbook. That can only happen if you first tell your husband and then tell the OM's wife. At that time your H or the OM's W may decide to tell you both to take a hike? I don't know? On the other hand most BS's given their WS's a chance to save the M if the WS really commits to the principles involved here.

Go do the right thing and no matter what happens after that you will know that you did what you needed and are in my mind morally bound to do. You will be able to live with that at some time no matter the outcome. Do it NOW!

JohmMitchel,

OUCH!...Part of me wishes to scream at you and say "our nooners were great! thank you"...and the other me wants to hide in shame...and I would have to believe from what I have read here on many posts, that most WW have gone through a similar process. We apparently all follow a script...

You should know that WWs grieve and hurt too...for the loss of what they think is their "love"...and knowing what humilation they have brought to their marriage and to their husband..sometimes it is easier to stay behind the wall we WW create than to tear it down and expose our lies....

I am not asking for your sympathy...but if you want to heal your marriage..then you need to try and understand..

And numerous times I have questioned myself...about what I am doing and why...but the addiction is real...the pull into that "fantasy land" is real....

I always thought that giving up nicotine was the hardest thing I had ever done in my life....BOY WAS I WRONG!

Not true at all.

A WS is only an OW/OM IF the other person is also married.

Sorry to butt in, but that mis-labeling has always bugged me.

Carry on.........

me too, AD

I know ff. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

2crazy,


I know it feels discouraging when someone bashes you, but as much as you want understanding....you've got to USE understanding too!! Good grief. Remember where you are.....on a site where marriages have been destroyed by infidelity and the words you're speaking are so familiar....they're scary. You've come basically to "betrayedspouseland" and it's probably NOT at all realistic to expect "understanding" from some folks who are in the middle of feeling like their chest has been opened and their heart ripped out. At the same time you're experiencing guilt and shame....many of these folks have just found out about their spouses affair and aren't going to be understanding because they're really suffering. John Micheal has two posts!! He's not some seasoned vet whose seen it all.....he's a wounded soul right now who can't stomach any more betrayal and empathizes with your HUSBAND....not YOU. Can *you* understand *that*?

There are also some of us who have recovered and don't get so triggered by things you say (like "our nooners were great! thank you" which was every bit as insensitive as anything said to you btw wow.). Imagine it like this: If your leg was torn off....how much energy/empathy would you have for the rest of the soldiers on the battlefield? And how much empathy would you have for the person responsible if it wasn't enemy fire that had caused that carnage....but one of your fellow recruits who had decided to play with his handgrenade? Once your leg healed....maybe....and it's only a maybe...you could find empathy for the guy goofing off with the weapons. But you'd still have to live without your leg.

That's what it feels like to many of the people here. Don't come crying for understanding from folks already doing their own crying. You'll get help from those of us who can....but you also need to be prepared to be blasted by people who are suffering....or have reached the "angry" part of recovery.

Use what you can....ignore the rest....but please don't whine okay?

We've got a great core of FWS and vets who are far enough along to offer help without triggering....you've already gotten some great help there....but use some empathy yourself for the fellow wounded. Look at the stories of other people....where THEY are.

Crazy2, I'm going to talk about you in the third person for a minute, no disrespect intended.

BS's, even though what you are reading from Crazy2 is unpalatable and sickening for you, it is a very valuable insight into the mind of your WS. EVERY single WS could have written her posts. If you want to see inside the mind of your alien spouse, you are seeing it now.

Now, Crazy2, to you. I don't know if you read my post, you didn't acknowledge it.

You are here on MB, you are not on The Other Woman board, so I'm assuming you really do want to end the A. Try focussing on your H. How do you feel when you look at that very hurt man who obviously loves you? Work on those feelings of shame. Work on restoring your love for him. I'm still certain that the OM is not "willing to risk everything". He's pretty safe right now because he isn't risking anything. It would be a whole different story if he REALLY thought he was risking his marriage. Your H needs to call the OM's wife and the sooner the better.

My A was 3 years ago. Just recently there was renewed contact between me and the OM and I was quite rightly slammed on the board because of it. I can't even read those posts now, they make me cringe with shame.

I had reached a stage of complete indifference to the OM. It really can be done. The first step is NC. And NC has to be forever as I found out, thinking I was "safe" from the OM after all this time.

I am thankfully back to indifference to the OM and concentrating fully on my H and my marriage again, thanks to the people on here.

I know you are speaking from the depths of the fog, but as Starfish and others have said, have a think about your words before you write them and their affect on the very hurt people who are here. They are in the same place as your H.

I would also like to add this. It's a post called The Affair World, written by Plank a male BS and added to by me. We are not connected in any way, we just did this joint effort. It may help. Sorry, it's very long.

Quote:
Ok here goes. Please remember that this is all very much in the past for me and the early pieces IN NO WAY reflect how I feel now.


********************************************************
The last thing you remember were the words of your lovely wife or your handsome husband. There was a long string of nonsensical dialogue and then the unmistakable uttering of the word affair. Affair? How can that be? What the ****** is happening? You’re moving quickly to the bathroom to vomit. This is a ritual you may repeat many times over for several weeks or a month.

**********************

You are wakened at 3.00 in the morning. Your husband is touching your shoulder. He whispers “Are you going to leave me, are you having an affair?”

You are suddenly wide awake. This is it. It’s finally out there. All the hiding and lying are over. This is what you’ve been waiting for and dreading but there’s also a sense of relief. At last it’s out and you didn’t have to confess.

He wants to know who? He wants to know why? He wants to know how? You have no answers. You confess who and he says “of course, what an idiot I am, I should have known.” You say “I don’t know” to all the other questions. You don’t know. You’ve never had to question yourself. You’ve had the length of the affair to process everything, You don’t even realize the extent of the bombshell you’ve just dropped.

***************************************************

You wake up slowly blinking from a mind ringing daze. Did you fall asleep sitting up? Did you faint? Were you out? Your memory must have failed.

****************************************************

Both of you wake in the morning and say what happens now? He says “do you love him.” You look blankly at him and say “yes, and I’ll go with him if he comes back for me.” He says “is it over?” You cry and say “yes.” You look at him blankly and coldly and you keep looking at him blankly and coldly. Doesn’t he KNOW what you’ve just been through, leaving the OM behind?

*******************************************************

Impending doom sinks heavy on your soul. There is a fog obscuring everything in your vision, it makes things hard to focus on. The detail of things in the world seems to have disappeared. Everything that once had glint is now dulled. Your soul seems empty. If you could thump it, it would reverberate with the empty sound of a ripe pumpkin as it’s tested for ripeness.

All the laws and postulates that you have come to lean on in your reality have changed. No more are the days when the sun rises with certainty. Gone are the times of family familiarity there to embrace you when you come home from your livelihood, your job. You feel that you make your way through life alone now.

The natural order of things has been mucked. Your family, your spouse, even your pets seem so distant, so unfamiliar. Your priorities have been upended. Your chest is heavy and tight. You heave for your next breath. Your mouth is dry; a dryness that will pervade for many days, weeks, months with slowly lessening severity. Your tongue feels like a big wad of cotton crammed into your mouth, near useless when you try to talk.

****************************************************

You are frightened by what’s now changed in your world. Are you going to be removed from your family? You know you should try and offer help, you know you should offer comfort but all you feel is coldness. You want to reach out but you can’t. It would all be lies. All you can say is “I’m here.” That could mean anything. It means I’m here for now. You have no idea what the future holds. You will yourself to feel something, you will yourself to feel empathy, to feel sympathy, to feel what you’ve done. It’s not there. Just emptiness and detachment.

*********************************************************

You tell yourself this isn’t real. This couldn’t have happened to me. The one person that I trusted more than life itself would harm me how? The one person that was part of a special oneness did violate me how? Do I need to know the details? Does he or she love me? Your mind is reeling with visions, clips of film, unknown faces, pain, flashbacks to strange conversations, unbeknownst previous clues. Oh God you feel raped.

*****************************************************

It starts to dawn on you how horrible it must be to remember those times when you were late home, when you were distant, when you drank too much and went to bed too early. The first flickerings of guilt start to appear. You remember how you ruined the trip of a lifetime to Europe and he DIDN’T EVEN KNOW. You imagine what it must be like to think of you with the OM. You know you can’t tell him what it was like. You’ve already twisted the knife, it’s obvious, you can’t twist it anymore. You can’t add to his horrible pain. But my pain, what about MY PAIN?

***********************************************************

You’re shaking. You are numb. Tears pour out. The ability to process emotion is completely absent; you have no control. You can’t talk coherently. The stabbing pain. Death is close; right now it seems your best friend. But you can not let yourself shake his hand.

In the furthest recesses of your mind you know that this is the one thing, this is the single most life altering event that you will ever experience. This is the knock on your door in the middle of the night that a dear family member has been killed; but in this scenario they come back relentlessly night after night. The crust of every good horror film is now yours for the tasting. For possibly the first time in your life you have accepted defeat at the hand of someone you knew well. Someone that was the focus of your universe. It’s starting to sink in. The spouse you held high on a pedestal has let loose a raining fire storm of torment, agony, and despair on your personage without mercy.

The flower has wilted and died.

Surveying your new “affairscape” you realize that life has indeed changed.

******************************************************
Surveying your new “affairscape” you realize that life has indeed changed.
******************************************************

This is the desolation of finding yourself on Mars. It seems you are a million miles from home without food and water. Yet, he/she is in front of you weepy. Why? Their eyes lined with tear but none to flow down their cheeks. They are gazing in awe at what has just transpired, the awareness; the applying of torch to fuel laden timber and the subsequent blinding explosion of leaping flame. There is a look on their face like you weren’t supposed to care.

Damn, why do they seem so surprised.

******************************************************

You only know that now it’s out there and you have no idea what is going to happen next. Is he going to say “pack your bags right now.” Is he going to hit you? Is he going to leap out of bed and go after the OM. But he doesn’t. He just cries and you sit there watching from a distance and thinking “He MUST have known. He must have been blind. That’s all I meant to him – he didn’t even NOTICE.”

*********************************************************

In your mind you go back and forth between the previous visions and total void. From complete numbness to the pain of being set ablaze while still alive. Back and forth this will continue, unknown to you, for days. It’s the beginning of a fire that will continue to spread, raging, until it consumes everything in your previously familiar life. Until there is nothing but scorched Earth as far as you can see. In your reality; this is the visage of your mind. This is the expression of all the interpersonal transactions that have occurred between you and your once betrothed. And as you stare at them, it’s like looking through an ever lengthening tunnel; watching them slowly retreat from your life like they were falling off of a cliff. All in slow motion.

Hope has been vanquished from your life like the snuffing of a burning candle. It was just there burning bright. Now it’s gone.


For the next few weeks there will be no sleep. No hunger. No eating. No happiness. Little emotion. Horrendous feelings of isolation and loneliness. Everything that you used to enjoy; your hobbies, collections, past times all now seem meaningless wastes of time.

You don’t seem to care about most anything anymore except the details of the repulsion that burns like hot shrapnel in your mind. You need to know everything right now. Every minute passing without equal knowledge is another cut.

******************************************************

He starts to say nasty things. He says “was it good. Did he get a good f***” You look in horror. You hurt. Doesn’t he see how you hurt? He says “I just can’t stop thinking about you and the OM together. It makes me sick.” You remember you and the OM together. You want to contact the OM. You say hurtful and nasty things back.

***********************************************************

You are bending over to pick up the crumbs of your former life now at your ankles and trying to frantically put them back together again in an effort to restore some semblance of order.

It’s the map of your life and love that you are picking up after it’s been cut into tens of thousands of pieces; trying to reassemble them around the clock- one piece at a time. This is a puzzle that has pieces contorted with lies and deception. Adultery has changed their outlines. After much effort you realize that the puzzle may never be whole again. The picture that you are looking for may be forever obscured by protectionism and shame. Day and night does this continue until you can finally make enough sense to build a wall around yourself and if necessary around your children also.

A week or two later you reclaim a piece of yourself.

*******************************************************

After a week or two of marriage counseling it’s starting to dawn on you that you have hurt another human being almost beyond repair. Little twinges of guilt appear. But still you justify. You still miss the OM. You still look blankly at your H. You want to make everything ok again but how can you? It’s all broken, your whole life is broken. You’ll never love your H again.

***********************************************************

You plant a flag into the field of dignity. It’s not much, but it’s a start. It seems like just inches square of land but it’s yours. It seems pathetic that you’ve fought so hard for such a small patch of ground to call your own. It’s the cornerstone of the new life that you are now embarking on. It’s a new life where you can only count on yourself. It’s a life that you never heard or learned about before. You now know what Louis and Clark, Columbus, Vasco da Gama, Neil Armstrong and all the other great explorers felt as they embarked on a journey of great risk against seemingly insurmountable odds. You know what it’s like to look death, danger, and the unknown in the eye and nod your head approvingly to the challenge. You are on your way to a different life.

*******************************************************

Your H starts to behave differently. He asks what was wrong with your marriage. He asks how he can help make it better. He asks what he should do. You start to tell him – of course, you think you’re justified. It was because you were neglected, it was because you weren’t being given attention – it was all his fault. But he loves you deeply. You had no idea he loved you so deeply. You thought he didn’t even notice you were alive. He’ll do anything to hold on to you. He wants you to talk to him about the A. He’s stopped saying nasty things and he’s listening. You feel grateful and awed that someone could love you so much. You start measuring that against what the OM did for you and the OM comes up wanting. But you still pine for the OM. He was so much of life for so long – can you just let him go from your mind. It seems to be what your H wants you to do but you can’t do it. He becomes impatient. He starts to wonder if it’s worth it to wait. Why can’t you just forget the OM and the A. You try and explain. The MC explains it. She says “you can’t forget just like that and neither can your wife. You’ve both been hurt, you both must grieve and then you will both come back together.”

**********************************************************

Several weeks to a month later you are now in marriage counseling. You may be in individual counseling. You have by chance, or reference from a friend, found Marriage Builders. MB has helped you to formulate a plan. It’s the plan that you knew you wanted to have but just didn’t know how to go about bringing to bear. It feels great to finally feel like you have a semblance of control over yourself again. Once again you are beginning to feel like a person. You look in the mirror and for the first time in weeks, indeed maybe months you see hope in your own eyes.

********************************************************

You find MB. You realize that not only are you not unique but that there are many, many like you. Your love affair of the century has been played out hundreds of times. Light begins to dawn. You start to see the OM for what he was and what your friends have been telling you for months, what he was. You see the pain of others like your H, you read their stories and you begin to understand just what you’ve done.

**********************************************************

The details have been coming out one by one. Each delicious factoid has become an obsession. You are driven to know everything about your spouse’s affair. You have an indescribable need to know everything. You are relentlessly aggressive in your pursuit of the truth. Knowledge of the affair is guarded secrecy that is given to you by your wayward. Perversely you equate their willingness to divulge the intricacies of their affair with their commitment to pure radical honesty. Truth is your friend and you know it like never before.

If your spouse could help; if they could just understand. Why can’t they just get it all out in one fell swoop. They can not reason that during this critical time it’s necessary to bare their soul and divulge all. They release one fact simultaneously with a lie. They cover up, and back step, reformulate all the facts until you don’t understand what is truth and what is untruth anymore. You start to dig. You’re digging like a miner that knows there is gold buried somewhere close. You have to do this to protect yourself and get to the bottom of the mystery.
********************************************************
Here’s where we were different. My H didn’t want to know.
*********************************************************

You feel self loathing for playing the detective but you rationalize that it’s reasonable and necessary for you to ever be safe again.

*********************************************************

Your H rings you at work. He’s been checking your cellphone bills and finds an unusual number. You are upset. You know you haven’t contacted the OM. You’re annoyed that the trust you thought was building up isn’t there at all. You get snappy. You ask if you’re going to be checked up on for the rest of your life. You say to him “ring the number then”. He does and it’s your voicemail that you checked recently. He rings back, apologetic but you feel like you’re never going to get past this.

***********************************************************

During all of this you liken these few last days, now about six weeks into this hellish journey, to that of being sucked into a black hole and spit out into a different universe; where the rules and results governing marriages and relationships are amplified much more. Actions speak louder than words here. Truth and deception have far greater influence with far greater consequence. The light of day kills bad things here. Good and evil are much more polar. Happiness here is palpable. Sadness is like a calmed ocean on an oppressively hot endless summer day. Cause and effect are much more pronounced.

Since the discovery day of the affair you and your spouse have been charged magnetically toward each other then driven apart hundreds of times. You know that you keep putting one foot in front of the other. Momentum is your ally. You made a commitment to rebuild your marriage and embrace the pain. It was a clear choice. It does seem ironic that your commitment and supporting actions toward your marriage seem counterintuitive. You know that you have to keep pushing forward. If you stop, you’re fearful that you will be bogged down and all will be lost forever.

You are trusting the same hand that once before, in very recent history, set fire to your mind.

You don’t understand why you want to rebuild your marriage in the morning and then get a divorce that same night.

********************************************************
You decide you just can’t do this. You start to talk divorce. He doesn’t want it. You cry in each other’s arms. You know you have to make a decision. You have to stay 100% or you have to go. You are torn. The OM is gone, really gone. You have to reignite the spark. You’ve been talking to everyone on MB. You KNOW you can reignite the spark.
***********************************************************

You have reasoned and finally understand completely how important the relationship is between complete radical honesty and successful marriage. Still your spouse holds on to their secrets and tests the limits of your love along with your new boundaries repeatedly. They don’t want to give up anything just as much as you don’t want the secrecy to be maintained. And so it is that this bone of contention will cause much hostility and hurt in both of your lives until the evil is purged from the equation completely through complete disclosure.

*******************************************************
You don’t want to talk about it any more. Talking about it makes you remember the OM. It also feels like twisting the knife over and over again. You don’t want your spouse to hurt any more. You want life the way it was, but better.
*********************************************************

The betrayed spouse has to know that the submission to complete honesty is embraced by the wayward and the wayward has to understand that by practicing this they can find safety. Through this process you will both build intimacy and trust each other more and in turn find more safety in your marriage. It will build like a snowball rolling down a mountain side; small at first then exponentially bigger and more beautiful. For you to find the truth you have to be willing to stuff your emotions when your wayward spouse is explaining their affair and the details. It’s maddening and hurtful to hold back but it’s necessary to provide an atmosphere for them to feel safe in. It’s the price you have to pay to find the truth.

*********************************************************

You talk and talk and talk. You are more honest with each other than ever before. You find you both have complete misconceptions about what the other was thinking and feeling. You are forgetting the OM, you are forgetting the feelings you had for him. You are looking at your H in a new light. You are thinking, this man is the key to everything, he is the key to my happiness, he always has been.

***********************************************************
Some several months after D-Day you will find that you are exhausted.

A sense of peace will fall on your spirit. You will start to see things through new eyes. Things will start to seem more fresh. The details surrounding you in your life will slowly start to return. The dulling that once displaced glint will slowly fade. You’re not sure if you are broken and worn out or if you are truly seeing life from a different perspective. You’re thinking that you’ve been changed forever.

You have a different appreciation for truth, love, family, your spouse, and God.

You are discovering a life of compassion.

******************************************************
You feel forgiven. You have a weight lifted from you. You know that your H is the only person who has ever truly loved you. You know for that level of forgiveness to take place you are loved unconditionally. You see the affair as the tawdry thing it was. You know that your H is your one true love. You are grateful and awed. You do all you can to show him you can be trusted. You account for your time. You meet his needs willingly and lovingly.

Every day that goes by you realize you haven’t thought about the OM. He hasn’t crossed your mind for days, then weeks, then months. You and your H are smiling and laughing and talking and planning the future and having the same lovely SF you always had throughout your marriage.

You catch yourself one day telling your H that he should have listened when you asked him to buy milk, he teases you that you haven’t done the ironing for a while.

You are no longer walking on eggshells with each other.
**********************************************************


Most importantly, you will be ok.
************************************
Most importantly, you will be ok.
************************************

Welcome to recovery.

*************************************
Welcome to recovery.
*************************************

end Quote

Kiwi

Thank you..So many of those thoughts I have had..and am still having...I could finish them as I was reading it. I have said them to myself and even aloud to my BH.

I have printed it out, and have added it to some of the other information I want him to read, sometimes it is easier to write than to say..or to show him things that have been written..Unfortunately he is one of those that wants details...and I have yet to bring myself to letting those out...


Right now when we "talk" it just seems to come out wrong...sounds like accusations, and anger!...so I am working on the NC...and living every minute/every hour/every day...

2C,

As you can see.....there is pain here....but there is also incredible healing. It takes a great deal of courage to be a WS here....just ask Kiwi....she knows. And while it may be a perilous journey, there are great rewards and the prospect of peace....finally peace....for everyone....even you. Don't give up. Stay. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

and to those BS's who are reading this...Sorry to throw salt on an open wound....

Reading YOUR posts does help me to understand where my BH is..and who deeply this has affected him..I know this because he has changed...the process of ending the affair..is not simple, as you may like it to be...and those of us who are the WS's...are clearly torn...between what is RIGHT and what feels good...

But anyone who is willing to work...on what is right..should be worthy of some redemption.....

I thought it might help.

I'm very pleased you've printed it.

There is hope, there can be a happy ending.

2C,


And anyone who is willing to work on what's "right"....doesn't start "preaching" or using words like "nooners" but shows remorse, humility and compassion.....the same thing that they ask.

This isn't about redemption chere....only God can give you that or measure your worth....we're just mortals like you. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> And you are not lost to Him. This is about marriage building....not condemnation. Be prepared to be courageous....or you aren't ready to do what's "right".

2crazy
From a BH please keep posting don’t let anybody get to you, we BS are getting a lot’s of insight about how strong this addiction is.
You are helping us or at least me understand what my WW is going through.
I don’t know you but if you are as a good person as my WW is, and I know that you are,
Because you came here, you want something done.
I always wished that a WW would post while in the fog for us to get some insight.

Please feel free to tell your true feelings, don’t worry about us, and don’t respond to harsh
Words from others just ignore the senders, I know it’s painful, but please keep posting.

Tony

213

Never fear...I will continue to post...I am actually a very strong person...most people would say "unflinching" (hah!) and I am way deep in the fog ...hopefully, my insight will help you and others see into the "other side", just as you have let me see inside the BS's window...this process will indeed give me the strength I need to gather up the courage to be TOTALY honest, with my BH and break the cycle with the OM, only then can the real process of recovery begin....

2,


love your husband. Remeber at the altar???????
the vows????

MWIL,

I do love my husband, because I have seen how much he loves me, mistakes and all...
I am trying to make my way back..the fog is very thick down here...and withdrawls are still very strong...

working through each minute/each hour/each day....

Thanks J.

"working through each minute/each hour/each day...."

Does this mean you are in no contact now? Are you committed to telling OMW and your BH about each attempt at contact by OM?

Getting yourself out of the fog takes being honest...first, with yourself...you can use this board to help you be honest with yourself...

And have honesty returned to you, in kind.

LA

Right now when we "talk" it just seems to come out wrong...sounds like accusations, and anger!...so I am working on the NC...and living every minute/every hour/every day...

This is the pathway to finding your authentic self again..

you can not process the many aspects of this situation till you cut the contact which fills an emotional aspect...

the cycle is vicious...

continued contact brings more pain...but on one level that intense pain feeds the notion that obviously this "RELATIONSHIP" MUST be different...or why else would two people risk so much...

partly because you can not see how much is of your own energy put in to it...

ALL taken from your marriage...as he does the same...

no one can tell you to stay married...who knows what type of real marriage you have or are capable of having...

but until you live walk authentically in the world...

people love say that society hates affair because they are sinful...
but people hate affairs because they destroy people and cause great pain to all parties....

no contact
one minute
one hour
one day
one week...

have you told him NOT to contact you....

how many doors are still open to you

get a plan
get some stability

ARK^^

2Crazy,

Finally Learning said this to you:
These are very profound words. Most folks can see the harm infidelity does to others, but it's much harder to see the personal harm that it does. Whenever any of us act in ways that hurt others, we also hurt ourselves. We undermine our own self esteem and value. We create shame and self loathing. We question our own worth. We destroy our own happiness as well as the happiness of others.

Ayn Rand talked about the concept of "non-contradictory joy"......the only real kind of joy. It is a joy without guilt or consequence. It is a joy that doesn't harm ourselves or others. It is a pure and completely fulfilling joy.

I know the A has given you pleasure, but it's temporary and it's not the same thing as joy because it goes against what you know is right and wrong. Pleasure without joy is an empty place. Even the moments you feel happy will be marred by guilt and conscience. And ultimately any happiness is spoiled and unfulfilling. Each meeting creates a massive high and then a precipitous fall, and you feel as though you've "lost" yourself and who you are. It harms you in insidious ways that you may not even be able to see. It takes away your authentic self....someone whose actions match their beliefs. It takes away your peace and pride in who you are....your integrity.

As much as all of the other people deserve to be happy....so do you....and you can't get "there" from "here".

You are getting some good advice from some nice ladies.
Some have earned the crown of the F before WW.
Wouldn't you rather have that than the Scarlet Letter?

What I don't understand is this statement:
"and withdrawls are still very strong... "

How can you be having 'withdrawls' when you are still meeting OM
behind your husband's back and continuing
the emailing with him?

When are you going to go No Contact and tell your
husband that you have been having sex with OM?

AND tell him the entire truth that the affair has
been going on for 10 more months than he believes?

All I am asking you to do is to be HONEST with
your husband. We want HONESTY first, only then
can healing begin.

Dear 2Crazy,

Fog is what happens when a decent person – and I think you are a decent person - tries to justify indecent behavior to keep the addiction going.

The [color:"green"]friction[/color] between

your conscience
your love for your H
your love for your children (who are also affected by your selfish behavior)
your engrained need to be an ethical person
your wish not to harm anyone who has never harmed you (your BH, your children, OM’s wife, and even OM whom you are not letting be an honest and decent person either)
your need to be honest and open, especially to your H, the father of your children

AND

your need for the kick you get from getting your EN's filled by OM instead of BH

create a FOG so thick you need a foghorn and/or beacons of light to navigate until it clears and keep you from crashing.

Some posts here will sound harsh like a foghorn to you.
It’s people outside the fog saying “Hey, you fool, don’t go there! There are rocks! You’ll crash!”
You cannot see the rocks, only hear their harsh words.
Do you believe there are rocks there ?
Do you believe they can see what you cannot see ?
Do you believe they are actually trying to help you ?

And some posts will be like a beacon of light in the dark.
As the fogs clear, and you recognize them for what they are, you can use them to find your way home.. to yourself and your M.

Okay.. so you want to clear your head and get out of the fog?
I'd like to put a few thoughts in your head to help you do that.

Think about OM's Wife
Like Pep once said: "Don't think of OM as "your OM". Think of him as XX's husband."
XX being the actual name of OM's wife. Perhaps you can start by posting about OM like that… Anne’s husband this.. Anne’s husband that…

Try to get inside the head of BS's (by reading here, for example)
OW in my case was also my best friend (or so I thought) at the time.
That was a double whammy - like my WH stuck a knife in my heart, and she stuck one in my back.
The fact that they would lie to me and do things that they KNEW were incredibly hurtful to me..
That they thought that it would be ok just as long as they didn't tell me..
It made me feel like I had to be some horrible person, that both my H and my BF felt entitled to do this to ME.
It made me feel like they had absolutely no concern or respect for MY feelings...
or even my safety regarding STD’s, as they didn’t even bother to use a condom.

Learn about what fog does to a person
Just an example..
After I found out, OW/BF said "I didn't think it was wrong because it felt so right."
She really meant it.
She never felt she was doing something wrong all during the A, and for some time after D-Day as well.
After all, she didn't "steal" my H away, did she? So she thought that didn't make her a "bad person", like "others who break up M's" !
At my first talk with her after D-Day I couldn't believe all the things she was saying to me.
I didn't know about MB or about fog, but I felt like she was drugged or something.
It was so weird to hear this person who had been my friend for 15 years now justifying what she did to me and to her BH in the most illogical, childish way.

Just a little teeny foghorn here dear....well maybe NOT that teeny...

you posted this: " ...I will continue to post...I am actually a very strong person...most people would say "unflinching" (hah!) and I am way deep in the fog ...hopefully, my insight will help you and others see into the "other side", just as you have let me see inside the BS's window...this process will indeed give me the strength I need to gather up the courage to be TOTALY honest, with my BH and break the cycle with the OM."

YOU ARE IN CONTACT WITH OM...no healing...I REPEAT NO HEALING CAN BEGIN AS LONG AS YOU DO THIS...You are sure in the fog...and I can see it hugely as the number of TIMES YOU WRITE ABOUT YOU (SAYING "i" AND "ME") and not about dealing with emotions of your dh or how to help HIM...right now, it's all about YOU....

Right now, until you decide to forever end contact with OM, you will be a taker...and it only gets worse hon.

My xh? yea that guy. He got worse...if that could happen.

he remarried the pregnant ow...b/c she gave him ultimatums...I KINDA FIND THAT FUNNY NOW....as I was the one who dished out the first ones he didn't respond to well...he never went total nc.

and my xh continued on full blast ahead in WS taker mode...and he began cheating on the ow....and almost broke her jaw last summer when , how dare she, prevent him from having yet a third, fourth affair?

You can choose to either be SMART.....AND FEED THE ADVANCED PART OF YOUR BRAIN....the thinking part...and sever ties with om and go nc....or you can be a "neuro junkie" as I call em' and FEED THE REPTILIAN PARTS OF YOUR BRAIN...THE JURAISSIC PARTS (something I also call em) and do the same thing, so as to create those feel good hormones and transmitters that flood your body with the justification to lie.

it's all based on brain chemistry dear. and you're a full blown junkie. junkies quit by going cold turkey. and they have withdrawal. be a slave to it or you get out. it is that simple.

my xh got completely worse b/c he believes nothing less than hero worship should be delivered to him 24/7...and he's been a horrible father off/on...now he's just awful. he told my son some horrid things this week and my poor little boy cried himself to sleep two nights...he was almost unconsolable.

DO YOU WANT TO BECOME A MONSTER? THEN CONTINUE. DO YOU WANT TO SAY "I WANT TO QUIT THIS AFFAIR, BUT I AM NOT GONNA BECAUSE IF IT FEELS THIS GOOD IT MUST BE THE RIGHT THING?" OR DO YOU WANNA STAY IN THE AFFAIR B/C IT STROKES YOUR EGO...my xh is all about ego stroking.

between the brain chemicals keeping him high, and the ego stroking, he's happy...sitting on his imagined throne, saying to himself all the day long, "IT'S ALL ABOUT ME...IT'S ALL ABOUT ME...IT'S ALL ABOUT ME."

do you want to join him? it takes MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF FAMILY AND PERSONAL DESTRUCTION TO BUILD THAT THRONE...and your decision to NOT sever the tie to the affair is stone by stone, day by day, hour by hour building that imagined throne...one stone for lies, another for sex with om, another stone for breaking your kids' hearts, another stone for hurting your Husband, another for crushing your H's spirit, and another stone each time you enter the fog and fantasy world your MARRIED OM have where you plan a future that can never be....unless he's further along than you are in building HIS IMAGINED THRONE OF DESTRUCTION.

I liken it to saying "who ya gonna serve girl." and a few years back, there was a song by nine inch nails...and it totally described my xh as he pathetically built this throne of deceit, the invisible throne of deceit and pain stone by stone.

chorus of this song? "Bow down BEFORE THE ONE YOU SERVE...YOU'RE GONNA GET WHAT YOU DESERVE."

destroy the throne and regain your life and family. only answer. only cure.

Here is some advice. Start doing all the "normal things" that you do with OM with your BS. You may find out some incredible stuff about a man who wants to spend eternity with you (why else is he still in the picture?)

Have an affair on the OM.

Thorstein, sometimes someone writes something that is like a million flashing bulbs going off.

It is brilliant in it's simplicity and it should speak to WS's like nothing else does.

I just sat there smiling and nodding when I read it. This board always, always amazes me for the wisdom that comes from strangers.

This post has become a beacon...when I am feeling that I am being swallowed up and the only way out...is to bail...I think of the advice given here..and realize that I must go through...to get to the light...

It has been 72 hours and counting of NC. I still check my e-mail every hour..and wait for the phone to ring...

But I also listen to the many voices that are now in my head saying..."one minute...one hour..one day..at a time"...
I try to fill my heart & mind with thoughts of the good things about my marriage and my wonderful husband, who so desperately wants to make this work...I know the path is not an easy one..but is one I am willing to travel.

2crazy

It warms my heart when I read your post; you are doing the right thing, stay the course.
You’re worth it you’re family is worth it.
You are a brave woman, because you are deep into the fog but somehow you ‘re
Managing to navigate through, you said in an earlier post that you are a strong person,
Well you are going to need all your strength here, please keep posting, your struggle,
And your progress.

If you have any specific question to a BH please feel free to ask.

((((2crazy)))).

Tony.

Hi 2crazy, i'm glad to see your latest update.

keep posting!!

Hi 2crazy
how are you doing today?

Tony

thinking of you too 2crazy.

Justpeachy,

YOU are the wom(MAN)! You are right on. I just don't get the attraction to a man that would cheat, hurt a woman and family that loved(loves) him, has stood by him, etc. This man is getting a specific need met, not by working with his wife on their marriage and saving his family but by going next door to 2Crazy to get the best she has to offer and then return home to the safety of his home.

It will never cease to amaze me at the excuses that WS's will use to justify the affair first of all and then defend the indefensible OM or OW who cares only about themselves. Make no bones about if you were not filling a specific need of the OM he would stop calling you. It is about him. Now for 2Crazy it is just the opposite, it is all about her and her feelings.

Affairs are one of the most selfish acts one could ever commit towards a spouse. Just ask those that have been on both ends of one how it feels from each end. You can justify until you are blue in the face and at the end of the day the A will always be wrong and hurtful and more times than not end in disaster for everyone involved. People in A's have their heads in their (as you like to say) arses. It is truly that simple in my mind.

Alcoholism is real too...the pull of the bottle... but does that make the drunk driver's victim(s) have any better understanding of the disease? Should the fact there was drinking involved as reason for the crash be covered up by the drunk driver to avoid any type of fines or revocations...you know...hassles?

What about the next time the alcoholic gets behind the wheel, will just one little drink matter? For who?


I'm a FBS, FWS in AA so I know all about addictions and pulls <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

It has been 72 hours and counting of NC.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

this is for YOU
for YOUR own sanity...

ARK

Hi everyone..

Been keeping myself busy, or at the very least trying too. 5 days of NC...driving myself crazy with all the wondering, like why doesn't he just write me anyway? Maybe I should let him know this is making me crazy?....

I try not to take my frustration,and anger out on those at home. I sooo want to call him and ask him why this is not ripping him the way it is ripping me....

For any of the BS's out there, who do not thing that we the WS feel the pull, or feel how "real" the "withdrawl" is ...think again. It is very real, and at times it would be easier to slip back into the depths of the lies than to make our way through this.

But..I am holding my ground....reading the stories of those who have been there...and trying to draw strength from those around me.

When I feel the urge to contact the OM, I find something else to do...when a song plays on the radio...I change the station....when a thought comes into my mind...I try to think of my husband instead.

It is not easy...it is a day to day struggle...and one I hope I can continue to get through....

No, 2crazy, don't contact him.
Keep your word, let time pass.

I had read this ADVICE on a different thread to keep SILENT (NO contact) it kept me from emailing him, it helped me retain my self respect after my last email to him telling him it WOULD BE my last.

Now, much time has passed and I am using my time in much more constructive ways than writing him or watching for emails from him.

You CAN do this, 2crazy, each day that passes will be a
little bit easier for you.

thank you wontrainalways...

and you are so right it is a hard road..battle if you will...and yes,he has to face these decisions as well.

I continue to check e-mail...and will probally do so for sometime yet...and try to replace those feelings with family & my husband...it is a long, slow process I know.

is this an email account you used just for you two?

if so, CLOSE THE ACCOUNT.

work on making it not matter TO YOU if he emails you or not.

put this in YOUR hands not his.

what will you do if you find an email from him?

right now, you are waiting for his action to react to.

i challange you to create your own actions.

delete the account.

if the account is not just used for you and he, block his email (and DON"T LOG IT!! been there, done that!!)

make it impossible for you to know what he has or has not done.

make choices based on what you want for you.

take action for yourself!!!

what do you think? have i riled you up enough to do it???

cuz if not, i could keep going...

no ...that is pretty good ammunition...however I use the account for a variety of things. I have deleted his name from my address book (that is a start)..at least it is not staring me in the face everytime I am logged in.

There is a that part of me that needs to know...what he is thinking...how he is thinking....IF he is thinking anything...

However, I am fighting the urge to know, and remind myself it doesn't really matter. I am sure I will continue to "want" some type of contact...for sometime...but not giving in..is what I am shooting for at the moment!

i had a mantra for a while..

"OM is no longer my concern."

getting it out of your book is just a start. good for you.

keep fighting the urge to know. work towards indifference.

it does not matter. OM is no longer your concern.

work on wanting something else. like integrity, pride.

i don't think i ever saw an answer to the question i posed...

have the choices you have made in the past made you the type of person you envisioned for yourself?

trust me, i know how HARD this is. i have been there.

don't go easy on yourself crazy. push yourself. stretch beyond. get that email blocked (keep it blocked!!! yes, i've been there done that too, it's blocked, it's not blocked, it's blocked...)

keep reading and posting here too.

to answer your question FL..

No..I did not envision myself to be someone who would lie, cheat, and betray..those are the things I dispise the most. I can validate..validate..validate..why...but it will always come back to those facts...

and yes..flip flopping between I can..I can't...I can..I'can't..is my current struggle...

as of today...the "I can" is winning!

GOOD FOR YOU!!!

so since you are feeling so strong. BLOCK THAT EMAIL ADDRESS - NO LOGGING!!! ok?

this action will tell yourself, OM IS NO LONGER MY CONCERN!!!

and that is the msg you need to tell yourself via YOUR ACTIONS.

i know what i am asking you is hard 2crazy, i really do. I've been in your shoes way more than you can possible realize. you can do this.

keep posting. i'm rooting for you

FL you are a heaven sent keep an eye on her.

thanks for the compliment.

trust me, i got a lot of help when i came here probably more messed up then she.

and 213601, i hope your marriage recovers. i'm very sorry for your pain.

you are a hero for all you are doing for your family.

I never did hear from you. You are in the midst of the battle between the "wanta's" and the "oughta's"....the information I want to provide you with will, perhaps, provide you with some worthwile personal motivators to allign you firmly with the "oughta's".

I guarantee you will find it invaluable reading. Just a simple email and it's yours. I will not comment or otherwise address your situation. I am just very certain you were meant to read it.

Mr. Wondering

Thanks FL.

People here are wonderful and I’m no hero, I’m scared like everybody else, I’m doing
What I can to keep my family together, and help my WW see the light.

You are an inspiration FL.

2crazy how are you feeling today.

you can call me Tony.

hi 2crazy, i'm thinking about you. I wanted to let you know, once i leave work today, i may not be back online until monday. i'll look for you then.

stay strong!! keep posting.

2crazy

How are you holding up?

The weekend is coming why don’t you take your H on a date, have some fun for a change, keep your feet on the ground, and your mind of OM.

Yes I know these are my wishes but hey maybe it will happen.
You are a brave woman, for doing this on your own.

Take care and keep posting.

Tony.

Hello all,

I am holding on, it is tough some days..heck, it is tough some hours!! However, I am hanging on, and, at the suggestion of FL, I have adopted a mantra....

"He is NOT MINE, to think about"

And yes Tony, my husband and I actually have some "fun" time planned, we are going to a car cruise with friends on Saturday. Something he enjoys more than I, however, learning to spend time together, is a good place to start!...

Take care all..Have a great weekend!

2,

YES!!! I was just about to suggest that, but add STAY AWAY FROM ANY TECHNOLOGY! Leave the cell phone at home and no computer time.

Take a week without it. Then the strain isn't there and you can just breathe!

Good morning all!

Feeling good today....climbing that ladder up out of the fog!...some days you climb up a rung only to fall down two...however..I have not let go of the ladder!..and I'm moving up two rungs today....

Hope everyone is doing well...thanks for being here..for the support...encouragement....even the harsh truths....mostly for the opportunity to share our experiences and learn from each other...

For anyone "new" who is reading these posts...continue to read..the steps in the process of healing & recovery are long and hard...not everyone will see the steps in the same order, or even go work them in the same order...but at least begin the journey!..and hold the path steady....

HI 2crazy

I’m glad you’re doing ok thank you for being here and sharing your story,
You have no idea how many people you’re helping and will help with your
Posts and your story, a lot of words of wisdom in your last post, seems to me that you are seeing a bit clearer the fog seems to be lifting fast for you, keep your head up high.
When you feel the urge to contact OM just post here first, I’ check this site a few times a day, and I’m keeping an eye on you, I feel that your journey is mine and I hope I could help.

And thank you for posting.

Tony.

Thanks Tony,

yes, TODAY, I am seeing clear....one thing I am learning and feeling, is that this is truly a day to day journey and struggle. It is very easy to slip back into the fog, when a disagreement happens, a "bad day", or just a lousy feeling inside occurs. It is very tempting to contact the OM. I have typed the e-mails, which helps to get it out...then I find myself here, reading...and I delete the message...and go on another day..

"The OM is not MINE to think about!"

I look around, at my family, and then think somethin positive about my husband that has happened int he last 24 - 48 hours, and I get through...

good luck to all who are recovering....trying to recover...or thinking about it...it is a step in the right direction....

"The OM is not MINE to think about"

good for you!!

so now let me push just a little more <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

(we MB people are pushy, pushy, pushy)

did you block his email addy?

bumping back up.

I look around, at my family, and then think somethin positive about my husband that has happened int he last 24 - 48 hours, and I get through...

This is great...

this is in fact part of the anatomy of an affair....

what we believe are thoughts beyond our control...

when people in an active affair...say..

"but I think about him/her all the time....." Is a large part because we feed and energize those thoughts...we give them great power....
AND
in doing so we take away such energy and power from others...ie spouse...family ...etc...

we are not so much victims to our thoughts and feelings as we we sometimes want to believe...but gardeners and tenders.....

nurturing and feeding these ones...

pushing others away...

again blessings to you 2crazy....you are doing well...and people here know it's hard...

stay strong...

post often.
you are very much a inspiration to others here..

(lucky you huh...? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

ARK

Hi 2crazy.

May I suggest you put a tape over the first letter of his email account, just a reminder
Not to continue, or better yet tape a sharp pin this way you can avoid the letter altogether. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

just a thought. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Have a nice day.

Tony.

Having a tough day...it is amazing, how emotions can go up & down and all over from day to day...One minute "clear as a bell" the next..thinking...wondering...need to get passed the area of NC being "upsetting" to me.

trying to describe what you are feeling is like being on a merry-go-round---spinning from one thought to the next, from one question to the next.

I can hear myself thinking & fighting ..the conversation of "can't beleive he hasn't written or called...did I really mean that little"...and at the same time hearing yourself answer "DAH! YES!!!"...and what do you care...

"He isn't mine to think about"...."He belongs to her" (insert her name of course)

Hate these days..hate these days..hate these days...and don't even ask me to think good things about my family or my husband right now..because it is better to just keep beating myself up with us....

PHEW!!! either I am going crazy...or the "fog" has grippers that don't want to let go...

Sorry for rambling..thanks for listening...
Hope everyone else is having a "Good Day" because bad days are really crappy!

Good morning 2crazy.

Welcome to the world of betrayal, I’m having an awful day today, my heart is pounding
I’m not thinking straight, my thoughts are everywhere to I keep fighting,
I’m in it for the long run, or until I lose my love for my WW.

I know exactly how you feel heck you’ve been with OM for 3 years, feeling rejected
Is not a good feeling?

Quote:
“I can't believe he hasn't written or called...did I really mean that little”

Keep that thought it will make you hate him.

I feel the same way the only difference is the person I miss is right here with me,
But she is not.
At least you don’t see OM everyday; you will be ok, just another day,
Your feelings are valid you are entitled to be sad angry mad, I know you miss OM
But like you said who cares” HE IS NOT YOURS TO THINK ABOUT”.

Stop beating yourself up over him.

Keep your head up high.
Have a nice day.

don't be sorry keep venting here we are listening
thank you for posting.
Tony.

Tony,

Unfortunately I know what that looks like..
I have seen it on my husband's face..
I have heard it in his voice...

and knowing that I am the one who has caused that to be there..or caused him to act or think this way...really leaves me feeling guilty.

As you say..."keep your head up high"

THE DAY WILL GET BETTER...

2crazy,

Have you admitted to your H about the full extent of your affair? It sounds as if you are trying to do this on your 'own'. I may be wrong here...but, I think it is still a secret on your part. If you have admitted...then the rest of this is pretty much junk.

That secret is going to be what causes you to fail. You have this great little 'out', because right now, you don't have any consequences other than being right where you were 'in the affair'. If you really want significant help on no contact, do two things. 1. Tell you husband the entire truth (at least let him make the choice if he wants to be married to an adultress) 2. Write a NC to the OM and address it to his wife (likewise letting her choose if she wants to be married to an adulterer). Both of these steps will help you make tremendous leaps towards true NC, and thus healing.

Until then, I think you are setting yourself up for failure.

2crazy
Rook is right, take his advice.

One more thing I want to add you need to stop beating yourself up, and start forgiving yourself, if you want others to forgive you, you made a huge mistake and it seems to me
That you are remorseful, so get this of your shoulders and tell your BH, I’m pretty sure
He knows already, but it will be better coming out of you.
And who knows maybe you will have a better marriage; no body here said it’s easy,
But persistency is the key here, and like you said you are a strong woman, but you can’t
Do it on your own.

((((((2crazy)))))).

Tony.

Good morning.

How are you doing today?

Tony.

Morning..

I am hanging in there...somehow weekends are always easier to get through, it is getting through the very very long week that is more difficult.

My answer to Rook, is NO..I haven't admitted the full extent of the A to my H. I still don't understand the neccessity for all the details...more hurt...more pain...I have admitted to the EA, and he knows that I met OM on the Internet, he knows that I was very close to leaving our marriage, I believe he assumes a PA, as he read a few of the e-mails that were sent.

As for consequences??? The consequences were if I did not end this A I would damage my M beyond repair..my H would certainly have called the OMW...and gone to the OM house...

The consequences are also that he knows!!! That he knows how I destroyed him...I have to look into his face and see the hurt, mis-trust, and questions....those ARE the consequences that I live with everyday...

I have sent a NC to letter to the OM...it has been 14 days and counting!...I don't think it is necessary to tell OMW, that is his responsibility. He needs to begin working at home, just as I do...to fix the problems with why we left our marriages in the first place.

Maybe that is not the MB way...or your way....however, it is how I choose to handle this...when my husband asks questions of me... I answer them.

All that matters right now is that I am staying in this marriage and working at making this right and stronger than ever. That is all he is asking of me, to stay, to work with him, and all I am asking of him is his forgivness.

We all work the steps in our own time...in our own way...all that should be important is that we are working toward each other and not away from each other.

Well....at least that is where I am now...this is all I can give right now...It is all I can ask of my H right now...we both have to wade through the muck!

The weekend is here...we have been making time on the weekend for ourselves...no kids...no talk about the kids...just us...we talk..we laugh..we fight..we cry...
thing is WE do this TOGETHER....

It is a start..it is a step...I am trying to stay on the path!...

You still should contact OMW or he should. Don't protect other man from his lies.

Also, having been a BS, I can tell you that as a man you can obsess over the sexual details of what you did and where. If he wants to know, warn him that it will hurt for him to know, but if he insists, tell him and be fully truthfull. He has no idea what you did. In his mind, it was like the filthiest, nastiest porn sex and will not think otherwise until he knows the real details.

It is a hard thing to overcome and will take months. Yes, it will hurt him to know the details of the A, but once he does, it will start the healing. Trust me, if he feels he doesn't know everything, it will constantly come up with questions. If you spill the beans, get it ALL out, then he will have less to ask about and will be able to put it behind him sooner. Otherwise, expect to be constantly questioned about what you did.

hmmmm.....Lets assume this affair was only about sex and had no emotion, would you had even confess to your husband about the affair?

When it comes to an affair and what needs to be known imho is whether or no the affair was physical in that there were sex acts performed and whether or not it was also an emotional affair. Those two things imho have to be known when it comes to recovery. What details that have to be voluntary are where and what time it happend, in some cases how much money was spent, how many times you had sex, etc.

I get what you are saying in that when revealing more details about an affair you run the risk of causing more pain. How ever though in order for wounds to be healed they have to be known.

What I get from that one paragraph is that you would rather confess to an emotional affair over a purely physical affair any day of the week/year. I think you don't want to confess to the physical affair because of the shame that would come with it, not so much guilt but the shame.

For example sometimes the reason why women, who are having sexual affairs, will do sexual techniques with their om's but not with their husbands is because they don't care what the om thinks of them when doing those acts yet they care about what their husbands think of them when doing those acts.

What I'm getting at is that I think you are deathly afraid of the shame of a physical affair, your afraid that he would look at you with complete disgust as if you are the most "dirty" woman in the world. That he would not want to make love to you because he finds you "dirty".

I get the feeling that you don't want to confess to the physical part of it because it relieves the shame and guilt that comes with it if you don't, or it atleast hides the shame or comforts you as long as you don't confess to that part of the affair. Which is also why you want him to assume that he knows about the sex so that you don't have to confess to it.

So what do I see in that paragraph, I see a woman that is running from shame.

Am I wrong?

And I would agree, I see a woman running. The truth and it's consequences are scary things.

I have often wondered about this...for the people that are sooo secretive about the affairs, that even upon trying to recover are trying to keep it secret, how they 'handle' it themselves. The fog, you know, just doesn't seem to be so thick. At least for the people that are openly doing it, they can 'live' the fog, for those that are keeping it a secret, and then try to hold on to the secret even when the affair is dead... it says to me, I never intended to leave... and things weren't as bad as I tried to make myself believe. I was just selfish, and I know it.

2Crazy, I'm sorry you find yourself in this spot. I think for those that know me, I'm not the softest worded person in the boards. I know some find me downright offensive. However, it doesn't change the fact that I've been here for almost 3 years now, and have a 'recovered' marriage. My wife was the wayward one. Your husband is yours, I can't claim to know him or understand how he will react to different things... but you go on and keep lying to yourself and to him, YES OMITTING THE TRUTH IS DECEPTION AND LYING. I don't see why this is so hard for people. You keep telling yourself your not telling him to protect him. You keep telling yourself your not telling the OM's wife to protect her. Go ahead, those same lies will be what ends your marriage.

You see, with a pair of people committed to being honest and helping each other, they can recover their marriage. However, when you have someone that wants to keep on lying, and decieving, to protect themselves and their OP, that is what does the marriage in.

I was so impressed by some of the things you said on the first page of this thread, and now, I sit here and say wow. But, such is withdrawl, and such is the fear that we let it control us so much. You know why you don't want to tell your husband the truth, it's the reason none of the WS want to admit it. It gives your spouse biblical grounds to leave you. Your afraid he just might do it (which supports my belief on the issue about many of the WS never intend to actually leave)...

-hang in there

2Crazy,

My FWW met her OM on the internet..in a chat room. Emailed each other, then started calling each other and then finally met. He lives in Phoenix, we live in SoCal.

He would fly into town, maybe once a month, get a room at the Best Western and she would meet him for that "normal" stuff you speak of. She did say on one visit they didn't even HAVE sex!

She would then run home to be there when I came home from work. (she didn't work)

THIS WENT ON FOR TWO (2) YEARS!!!
I HAD NO CLUE!!

Until I found some emails...one from him bragging about finding her G spot.

He was her soul mate!! He knew her better than she knew herself! (Dday was 05/2004)

SHE NOW GETS PHYSICALLY ILL WHEN SHE THINKS ABOUT HIM AND THEIR "SEXUAL HOLIDAYS". She hates the guy, hates thinking about the guy, and CANNOT BELIEVE THAT WAS HER back then.

Anyway, maybe think about this post when you are feeling that pull of the addiction. Hope it will help.

The internet chat rooms are the devil's playground.

So what excuse does your OM have for cruising the internet?

What excuse do YOU have?

We are still together, by the way. Happy and recovering.

krk

For Noliving & Rook

Not "confessing" about the sex, had nothing to do with shame...I am not ashamed of anything I did with the OM, however, I am sorry that my selfish actions, hurt those around me, and the OMW as well. I don't know her personally, only know of her. Through his eyes of course.

Am I afraid that my husband will see me differently? absolutely! until now he had been the only man I had been intimate with. We met when I was in high school...he was in college...(we met at church - had known each other for a few years prior to "dating")

When he first found out about the A he asked about sex with the OM....Of course I said "no"..(you know that denial thing)Maybe what I am most afraid of..is going BACK to step 1 AGAIN!....I have put him on that step a few times through this process...and I don't think he could go there again...

We both are trying to work from here to make our marraige strong..and not let anyone else in again....we have good days, and "tough" days...For him, I know it is thinking about me leaving...he always asks me to stay....I always thank him for staying....I am sure he has a tough time trusting without suffocating..I re-assure often.

Today is one of those tough days...the "yo-yo" feeling...this is the longest I have gone in a year and 1/2 without talking to.. or seeing.. the OM, 17 days of NC..and it is not getting easier..it is getting tougher...
but, I am fighting to stay the course...and posting here...and reading here...seems to be the voice of reasoning, that I follow....

Thanks all..and have a good day!

Oh..P.S. to krusht....
Thank you...and I have days where I hate the OM as well...so I try to keep that feeling so it becomes the ONLY emotion I have when thinking of him....I am glad to know that you are "recovered & happy"...it is good to know that marriages can be saved..... Thanks!

This may sound weird....but I think your husband deserves the right to think about leaving YOU instead of living in fear that you'll maybe leave HIM. You get a choice....because you know the whole truth. He believes you've only flirted/become emotionally attached to someone....it's your way of retaining more power and having less accountability. Come clean crazy2....until you do....your marriage will be "dirty" with dishonesty and you won't reach a real recovery.

Well, unfortunately you are not even at STEP 1 yet if you are still lying to him, 2crazy. You cannot recover your marriage based on deceit. This is pertinent information that he has a RIGHT TO KNOW. Every day that you don't tell him is another day you LIE to him. When he finds out he will look back and remember it that way. So don't compound the crime by adding more lies that accumlate daily, tell him NOW.

Not only that, but he has to get STD testing and so does the OMW. They both have a right to know the FULL TRUTH, 2crazy. Anything less is a fraud perpetuated on them both.

If you want to make this easier in the long run for yourself, your H and your marriage, I would suggest sitting your H down NOW and getting it ALL OUT in one fell swoop and getting it over with. He can recover from one HUGE blow better than he can recover from a drib and drab of blows as he drags the truth out bit by bit over the months and years. Every new little tidbit he drags out will put you BOTH back to day 1. And be assured he will get it out one way or the other. It will be much better for your marriage if you just do the honest thing and tell him.

2crazy...

Another thing that you are doing when you refuse to tell your husband the entire truth, is that you are also robbing yourself of the true intimacy that a marriage is suppose to have...It is an amazing feeling to have someone love you warts and all, and you will not have the chance to have that until you are honest...Turn it around here, put yourself in your husband's shoes...You would want to know wouldn't you? You say that you regret hurting him...when you continue to lie by omission you are continuing to hurt him...It's like a bandaid 2crazy, when you pull it off slowly it hurts even more...The way to begin regaining your integrity is to stop hurting him by telling him this information that he has every right to know...he won't heal without it and that is cruel! Will you do this 2crazy?

Mrs. W

Did you really post this?


I sit here, read that, and say, GRRRR. Please now, take that attitude to your husband, and convey that to him. Let him know how you aren't ashamed of your actions of having sex with another man. I sure hope you feel a bit differently about this very soon.

WOW, I must have glossed over that. That is a very scary statement that your H needs to KNOW, 2crazy, as much as he needs to know that you slept with this married man.

2crazy..

YOU are doing very well...

17 days of NO CONTACT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am extremely proud of you..........
extremely....

I know it is hard ...very very hard...

think about the damage that contact now would cause....

the turmoil of emotions
the re-escalation of hanging way too much on words....

back down in to the pit.....

17 days......!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
make it 18...
make it 19
make it 20


you need time to mourn....
time to adjust to re-aligning your thought processes...

I believe that each day even though you feel weak..you are really growing stronger...
AND
that you will come to realize the value and INTIMACY you desire to share with your husband...
can and will come through this process...

this is MARRIAGE BUILDERS....

long term goal is for you and your husband to establish that bond in which NO ONE else ever comes first...
where each lives to ease the burdon of the other..
FREELY and in ALL contexts....

you are on the path.....
you are doing great....

hold steadfast....

I know I sound like some foo-foo cheer-leader...
but 17 plus days of no contact....
is an awesome thing.......
and it is a start...

keep building
minute by minute...

you will not be the same person next month you are today...

ARK

2crazy -

I think its good you are here trying to work on things. Hopefully some of my comments don't seem too harsh.


If your not ashamed of what you did, stand up and be counted. Go to your H, your friends, your family and say "I slept with OM, committed adultry, violated my M vows, etc, and here's why I did it, and I believe I was right". These two statements, (I'm not ashamed, but I'm going to keep it a secret) are a paradox. They can't both be true.


Statement 1, I'm not telling my H because I'm protecting my feelings. Statement 2, I'm not telling my H because I'm protecting his feelings.

Okay, so here's the logic, "I'm not ashamed of what I did" However, I'm not going to tell anyone about it because 1, they will look at me differently and 2 they won't be able to handle it. This just does not hang. If what you did is not shameful, why are you worried about how they look at you? Why are you worried if they can handle it?


Why do you think there is a yo-yo feeling? Do you think it is really about the OM? I think it has more to do with the paradox in your heart and mind. In the end, this paradox will destroy you. This paradox will catch up with you one way or another and you have to address it. Either you are ashamed and don't want to admit it, or you believe what you did is right and you should tell everyone.

The attraction to the OM is the appeal of procrastination. If your with him, you can avoid addressing these things. Too many stories on this board about how avoiding things just causes more problems

The biggest characteristic I've seen behind WS who become FWS and start to recover their M, is some shame. It hits some of them like a bolt of lightening, but once they accept it, NC seems to be a breeze and they start to recover. They finally get that they made a mistake, they are ashamed of it, and they lean on their S to get over that shame. Its at this point that intimacy can start.

Finally, I think another poster alluded to this. But one of the biggest injustices of an A is denying your S the freedom to chose. Do you really want a "recovered" M where your S is committed to your carefully crafted image or to the real you?

Hi 2crazy,

I have been gone since last wed. I'm very glad to see you still posting. I'm glad to see the variety of responses. I hope you are reading each and every one very carefully.

I think in time you will come to find the need to be 100% honest. It took me a very long time. I really hope you don't take as long as me, i lost 7 months of recovery time because of it.

you did not answer my question from last week....

did you block his email address yet?

2crazy
I’m following your story I can’t give you any insight but I’m glad you are here
And I wish you the best.

2C,

""I am not ashamed of anything I did with the OM,""

Not yet!!! You are still waayyy in the fog and going through your withdrawal. That is why it is so difficult not to speak to him or see him. Your endorphins and pheremones are screaming for a fix!!

Hold on to your NC...it will soon get better and easier.

You are not ashamed of anything you did with the OM but still..""he asked about sex with the OM....Of course I said "no"..""

Of course you did!

We hope that OM used a condom during these unshameful occasions.

I can't help but wonder how many other hotties this 50 something player has been with in the past. Ever thought of that? Ever thought about getting an exam for STDs?

Tell us how you met on the computer. In a chat room? This may help you start feeling a little shame about the things you did with OM, which then will make NC much easier for you.

krk

2C,

Hehe, you never knew your name was gonna get twisted did ya?! I just wanted to point out, as much as I'm frustrated with some of your statements, that is also the BH in me screaming out, (I would like to say that it is also the educated MB poster in me too!) ... but I am proud of your attempt at recovery. You are doing a good thing by turning your back to this guy.

I'm sure some of the FWW's here can give you some solid advice on breaking free. I can tell you this, if you liken it to smoking, really the only thing that did it for me was to finally choose being done with it. I did use a patch to start...maybe you should too? Maybe you should let your husband be your patch. Let him help you find your way through the tough time. You might be even more amazed about what an incredible man your husband really is...? (the flip side of that is that is also might make your [shame] even stronger when it does come <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> )

Anyways, good job on NC. Keep it up.

-hang in there

2C,

I wanted to say that I forget to congratulate you on what you have achieved so far!! Good for you! I do hope eventually that you're able to make a clean break and re-establish true honesty in your marriage....but I'm very glad that you've stuck it out here. Don't you give up!!

Okay T2H

I block his e-mail address today!...I actually did it!...reading through responses again this morning, before I have to leave for the day....

Some hit ya like a ton of bricks...thanks Rook!

Others make me squirm because they make me consider thinkgs I haven't yet....but thanks for those thoughts as well...those are judt the uncomfortable ones....

One feeling at a time..one day at a time...

Oh!...

and thanks to all of you who continue to follow, post, and help...when I am feeling dazed and confused, or need a quick reminder...

I read here...helps me clear the way...and keep my H in the front of my mind!..

good job 2crazy, keep it up!!

2C,

""I block his e-mail address today!...I actually did it!""

THAT IS VERY, VERY AWESOME!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

HI 2CRAZY

how are you doing this morning?

Tony.

20 DAYS OF NC AND COUNTING!!!!

Still feel as though I am wading through the muck and fog...although not as heavy today...

Tough part is dealing with BH bad days...when I am having a good day...but trudging through just the same....

Hopefully we will get some quet time this weekend, and be able to talk about what is "hanging" in the air..what's not being said....

The road ahead is long...but it is one I am willing to take...I do love the man that stands before me...that has accepted me horrible behavior and all. I will spend the rest of my life making this right.

And to those who went "GRRR"...in one of my resent posts...I am ashamed of my actions, that is why it is soooo hard to speak the truth to my BH. I know he will see me differently, no man or women wants to think of their spouse intimately involved with someone else...but as others have mentioned, it needs to be his choice, to stay. Knowing all the details, he needs to choose as well.

And yet, with the light bulb going "on" ..I am still working through the feelings of angst, wondering why the OM never tried to contact me...did I really mean so litte? How could I have not seen this realtionship for what it was?.....

I hope that soon, all these thoughts will stop jumping through my brain at the same time...and leave me with some peace..or at least some "down time"....

Great day to all!!!

may God grant you a thousand light-bulb moments in the following months

Pep

2Crazy
I have not posted before, but I have followed this thread. Way to go!! Keep up the good work. We are all pulling for you and your M
M2L

Just try to remember, there is timing, and there is stalling. Don't wait too long, or you will worsen the damage.

-hang in there

2C,

""Hopefully we will get some quet time this weekend, and be able to talk about what is "hanging" in the air..what's not being said....""

Ya know, a great place to have these discussions is in front of a good marriage counseler, as in PRO-marriage counseler.

The MC can lead the discussions down the most productive paths and steer it away from any unhealthy dialogue.

krk

2Crazy,

I am a new poster here and I have to tell you that I wish you were my WH! I would so love to see him saying/doing what you are, but alas I doubt that he will ever come here. He's not 'into' computers.

That aside, congratulations on your personal day to day success. I have a tough time reading your story since I am the wife who was betrayed. WH first told me he had a ONS out of guilt and shame - to ease his soul? Perhaps. To justify his actions? Who knows why, but it sent me into a complete mental and emotional breakdown! I was almost hospitalized and was out of work on medical leave for 2 MONTHS! I never saw it coming! I am still in IC and on anti-anxeity and antidep meds.

I discovered the affair through my own investigation 8 months later and confronted him AND contacted her! I did this because I did not trust my WH to tell her that I knew! He was livid!!! How could I do that to HER. Yes.... he justified her over me! Slowly, due to my crying, screaming, anger, hurt, silence, whatever.... he revealed details. The more he told, the more I needed to hear. We discussed almost nothing except the details of his affair for close to 2 weeks! I had information overload! I was sick to my stomach. How could he do this to me... with HER??? To our family and kids.... with HER? What type of pond scum would get involved with a M man?????

I am NOT calling you pond scum. Please note that this name is solely reserved for 1 individual that has intruded upon MY LIFE. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

I've learned so much here by reading this forum and have become a better person by learning from the very wise people that have travelled these he!!ish roads before and continue to travel them daily with us! I so wish there was no need for a forum like this to even exist, but life is what it is.

What I'm trying to tell you is PLEASE, I BEG OF YOU to PLEASE be totally honest with your BH!!!! Neither of you will ever fully heal from this if there are any secrets. If he asks for details, give them honestly. If he doesn't want to know he will tell you. Some people really don't want to know. I needed waaaaaaaay to much info.

And please, for the sake of your FOM's wife's sanity, TELL HER! I am her and plead for her. She needs to know the life her H is leading. If she has no clue, she may crash like I did. If she has suspicions, then she will be able to make decisions based upon knowledge not on wondering, suspicion, lies and deception.

I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but it comes deep from my heart.

just popping in to say hi. i'm glad to see you are sticking with NC!

Hey Scampi,

Thanks for sharing your story and your views. I hope that your husband will come around, I wasn't exactly ready to jump off the fence at first..or stop having my cake either...I would say most WS enjoy having the "best of both"...As "harsh" as it may seem to those who are the BS, those of us who were/are the wayward ones, are not always thinking clearly, and when we are with the OP we are not thinking of "home"..you can't...you don't...instead you build two lives...you justify your actions...and you keep trying to balance the two...it is not until we are confronted that choices have to be made.

Steering your way through the choices is difficult. I have clear days and foggy days. They come & go. My BH has days when all is well in the world, and days when he questions everything. In my case, my FBH DOES NOT WANT TO KNOW ANY DETAILS, all he wants to know is that it is OVER...and that I am fully committed to HIM and to our marriage, that there is NC..nothing...ever again.

One thing that has helped my FBH is information from this site. I believe it helps him realize that he is not alone in this struggle, that all the feelings he has are normal reactions. It has ben helpful, for him to know that HE is on the right track, and is working his plan. He does not get on the computer either..and so I print many posts and other informationfor him. I have also given him the website address..just in case..he cares to look...

As for being "pond scum"..no offense taken. I have acted like scum..but I am not a hurtful person by nature. I have done some very hurtful things, and acted in a hurtful way.
As for telling the OMW ...I can't do that...I am resloved to NC with him...with that part of my past life...what he chooses to do, or not do, is his choice. I have choosen to stay in my marriage, work hard every day at earning my FBH trust and respect back.

Take heart, fight for what you know you want, help him see his way through the fog, and encourage him to come back to you.

HI 2crazy.

I’m following your story thank you for sharing it, I’m glad you made a good choice,
I’m reading your post with tears in my eyes, strange from a man that could never cry

Little things make me cry these days, nothing fazed me before, this is by far the most devastating blow in my whole life, having the person that you trust the most betray you like that, and keep in mind, in this case of infidelity IMO The only person that could help you heal is the one that betrayed you, strange but true at least for me, getting my wife back is all what I need right now.

I need to ask you what made you decide to stop the A?
Is it something that your BH did or said, or it was just your decision?
I mean you where involved for 3 years, that’s a long time.

Now my wife found my posts and I know she is reading them so if you could say something to her directly in your reply it might help, actually if you can say something
To all WW’s it might help a lot’s of people, here.

Tony is my real name; let’s pretend my WW’s name is Rain. She likes that name.

Tony.

Tony,

I hope, that through my rambling, and often times, insane babbling, that you and other BS’s can catch a glimpse of what goes on inside the WS’s mind; that the feelings of confusion, pain, and conflict, are as real to us as what BS’s go through.

Let me clear something:
The A was a little over 15 months (not 3 years)…

You asked why or what made me stop???

Even before my husband began suspecting, and uncovering untruths and details…I would battle in my head with “Right & Wrong”…however, the pull and the desire to be with the OM was stronger, than the desire to work on my marriage. When my H began “proving” he knew I was having an A, the struggle to end it became more clear. Scared & nervous, I was still talking with and seeing the OM, of course we became more cautious, but it also became clearer that we were both beginning to think about the consequences. We would often say that ending it now would hurt the two of us, continuing would hurt many more...

The 3rd discovery day....hit me the hardest ..it was simply the look of pain, and disappointment on my H face.
He had thought the A was over, again, and it was at that moment that I knew I had to make a choice, that he could not take anymore of the roller coaster ride…

It is not easy, it is a constant struggle. When I am feeling like all I want to do is run, e-mail, or call the OM. I remember that look on my H face. I think about all of the positive steps we are making. I read here, and listen to the pain of other BS’s and WS's and I try to picture the OMW. She does have a name and a face.

It is also knowing that my H loves me enough, and is committed to this marriage enough, to endure this sometimes painful, and sometimes wonderful battle. I look at my children, family & friends, and know that this is where I should be. So I fight everyday to stay here with him, and rebuild this marriage.

I am sure for every WS it is a different “light” that goes on. The important part is to get that light to turn on and stay on….

I hope that if Rain is reading this, it will help in some way for her to see that her BH loves her deeply, and loves her enough to endure his pain as well as hers.

Thanks… this helped me today as well, I was feeling as though I was once again on the edge…ready to cross over and make that contact….now I am reminded why I won’t!!!
23 days of NC!!!!!!

You wrote"When he first found out about the A he asked about sex with the OM....Of course I said "no"..""

I think he nows, i mean nobody hangs out the way you two did in secrecy with out sex, You are playing with fire girl..The truth always comes out

You wrote"It is also knowing that my H loves me enough, and is committed to this marriage enough, to endure this sometimes painful, and sometimes wonderful battle""

Whats so womderful battle for your husband do you think it is for him??? Quite crul statement if you ask me..You got the best of both worlds ,and am sure you enjoying this wooing from your husband.. BUT YOU NOW WHAT; YOUR STILL CHEATING!! yeas you are by not telling him the truth ,and you are also robbing him of his right to choose to reconcile or not..You also wrote you are not a shame of anyt´hing you did with OM , So why not come clean then...Selfish as always.

You wrote"Am I afraid that my husband will see me differently"" Poor little you.. Shame on you

Marcus,

I suggest you read a little more…as I do everyday…I have been posting my thoughts and emotions day to day.

I know that you see me as “selfish”…however, I care very much about my husband and how he feels, and what this is doing to him. If I didn’t, it would have been easier to walk away!

My statements may seem selfish to you, and since I am still making my way out of the fog, I may not always be of “sound judgement.” I would offer to you the opportunity to read a very active and engaging post started by KiwiJ..titled

“What Harley KNOWS and KiwiJ’s comments”

what I am trying to convey to you and others, is that although I know "total honesty" is needed, so that he can have entire understanding, the way I do, to me…to make my H endure more pain is just not necessary.

Wait.....

Let me put my helmet on...It is about to rain holy curses from BS's everywhere!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

2C,

No curses, holy or otherwise here...just a question...

When you read Jen's statement...and related to it...did you see where she was talking about the reason for not disclosing all...her motivation...and her action was to disclose, in spite of?

Because you are hurting your BH more with each day that passes and he doesn't know...from your mouth. Marcus is telling you he does...and BH struggles with the deep pain of doubting himself, knowing and not knowing, and not trusting you (which is painful) to not tell him...he's in added pain from your own withholding.

I respect your time, your way, your choice. Your life and marriage. Know that your foggy reasoning is foggy...you cannot know how terrible his pain is already, to judge him in more from knowing the truth.

LA

Let me say again...I know that I NEED/SHOULD tell all to my H. And as many suggested here, I should have when he first asked about it, however at the time, I was still in the A. I was pacifing my H by telling him it was over, when infact it wasn't. I was protecting the OM instead of my M.

Of course, my H eventually discovered this...by finding
e-mails, and uncovering recent phone calls. I sent the NC letter on the 14th..

I know that I have to tell him, I know there will not be an "approprate time"...but I need to find away to do so without inflicting more pain....

And let me say again that you have no control over not inflicting more pain on your BH.

You don't. You don't seem to hear everyone telling you this. No SHOULD/WOULD/COULD stuff. Unyielding fact. This is me pointing out to you a rationalization, much like the ones you had before. You are fighting foggy thinking...we're supporting you in your fight...I'm not attacking you...this idea that you control your BH's pain is disrespectful and harmful to your marriage. Respect him his own pain and KNOW you don't know it's depth through your continuing deception.

You may be alleviating a lot of his pain by coming clean.

You don't know.

We don't know.

This is a huge step toward going from a WW to a FWW...taking our consequences, making our intent pure for truth, and injecting respect. No shortcuts...

I know what it is to take the punch, the stab, over and over again, 2crazy...finding out about the EA...then discovering a motel receipt..asking...him not answering...saying he wouldn't answer that (he was living out of town and in my BS fog, I reasoned he got it from working late one night)...not knowing for three months until he answered all the questions...

It's like PTSD over and over again. Stringing it out hurts, inhibits and postpones recovery...if not, in some cases, stops it altogether. I'd rather had all the punches in a row...that's kindness, respectful and honest...what you haven't been for a 15 months...until you are, you won't begin recoverying...yourself or your marriage.

When you do tell your BH...he will look you straight in the eye and say, "You must think me weak, putrid and sniveling to protect me from the truth? Are you my mother or my partner?"

Okay, so he won't say that...I hope...but I pray this will convey to you how you are actively, consciously disrespecting, thinking less of him, looking down on him...when he's taken huge pain and chose to stay.

He can handle it. Until he has all the information, he cannot make an informed choice about continuing the marriage or not, can he?

LA

My 2 Cents. It is condescending. I am a BS in the fog and these posts help me see the pain and suffering everyone is feeling.

Question:

Did your H stick by you and decide to work on your M? Even though his friends and family: said to send you packing, called you every name in the book (all meaning the same thing), tell him he is a fool for allowing you to "use" him, get a divorce, that you're not worthy of him, that he could get someone who WILL love him, that you are just waiting for the "next best thing," that you're selfish, that you don't care about anyone?

Understand that just the pressure of trying to TRUST YOU and deal with all that is being said ABOUT you by his friends and family, is a HUGE burden.

I know these things, because I hear them DAILY about my WS.
Your M should have total respect. Read again, SAA, if you haven't. ESPECIALLY "Sue's" statements at the end. It should clarify. But you have to be HONEST with him. What is marriage without, respect and honesty.

Right now, your respect for him is low, but not as low as it was once. Keep building your respect for him by admiring the things he does for both of you, even if it seems simple. Heck, admire him for having the strength to stick it out this long, despite a 15 month A.

Read SAA though. I'm hoping it is going to save my M.

Good luck, and count today as the 1st day of the rest of your lives together.

Hi 2 crazy

I don’t know where I got the 3 years from, sorry I am in the fog too.

Thanks for the reply and listen to Loving anyway (LA).
She is the reason I am able to fight for my M and endure the pain, I hope my WW reads
This I don’t know what will be the trigger for her, but I sure hope it’s going to be soon.

I’m glad I could help at least this time to keep you from contacting the OM.

Think about it this way you are doing this for every BS here on this board,
We are watching, reading, keeping an eye on your progress, you are our inspiration our hope, keep posting, keep reading, keep learning.

Good luck.

Tony.

2 crazy

I was harsh to you for a pupose,My EX wife did the same as you are doing now. The story is quit similar,with the difrence it only lasted 5 months.She also said that it wasent any sex invalved. ANd i came to find out a 1 year laiter that is was sex to,Twice a week..And that hurted more than you now,hence we are divorced now.In case you wonder a frendley soul told me and she came clean..And begging for another chance..Thats not gonna happen in my case. Her laying was the worst,and no mather the excuses she had couldent solv our fals recovery for a year...

So please if you are serius about your Marriage, please come clean ASAP..The truth as an ugly way tom come forward dippending how you se it .I might ad that i really hate my EX now..

She still pleads 6months laiter after DD 2 for another chance..Not gonna happen bydayway

Morning to all....

I have listened to the many stories,and the one thing I hear repeadily from everyone, BS & WS alike, is HONESTY..HONESTY...HONESTY...well I am here to tell you that Honesty sucks!....

I told my H everything last night, he had been reading some of the material from the website..SAA...and was talking about honesty...I guess my silence was the "in" the converstaion needed. It was there in the silence, that I found the courage to tell him. All the details..the length of time...that it became a PA....and that there has been NC for 24 days....Inside I am ashamed, crushed, and numb, as I tell him these words, and see the look on his face. I am trying to celebrate the fact that I have accomplished NC for this long, and at the same time I have ruined the man I love...

I don't know where this will take us. Telling him the truth, was horrible, I am sure it was even more devastaing for him to hear, especially since he was under the illusion that it had ended months ago....

"the truth shall set you free?" ****** the truth sucks!

All I can hope for now, is that he will come home at the end of the day, and we can begin real recovery. If that is what he still wants....

Hanging on by a thread....but at least still hanging on!

Oh, 2C...congratulations!! 24 full days and total honesty...you're being brave and true for your marriage...and yes, whatever happens, you are changing yourself.

You.

What inspiring and uplifting news...doing something extremely difficult, seeing his face...fully aware and doing it anyway. Thank you for sharing (with us and your BH).

Stay in NC today as you wait...don't reach for that drug...

In your corner,

LA

Im proud of you girl:)
Im glad you dident go down the same path my EXWW choose
You two will be fine ,with time.

I really could use some advice from the "wise-sages" of the boards...

How much info is too much info? How do I help or shield him from the pain of my answers..??? What do I say..or do? I am afraid to do nothing...afraid that I will become distant again..the wall will go up...and i will reach for that fix..

Godspeed to you 2crazy on this part of your journey....

what you can do is let your husand lead in you in what he feels he 'needs to know'...

ARK^^

Hi 2crazy,

ok, what you have just done was really really hard and i know what you mean by it "sucks" but...

answer me this,...

do you feel about the fact that you were honest?

focus on this specific question. I know you are having lots of various feelins right now but focus in on the question and tell me how you feel about that. ok?

i'll be back after seeing your answer.

Please excuse me... I'm not a wise-sage... but I think you may consider letting your husband decide how much he wants to know? Don't be distant- keep talking to him- just answer all his questions with the whole truth. Ask him what you can do to help him get through this. Does that makes sense?

I'm sure the wise ones will help you too. Good luck. I'm glad you told him.

Hi (((((2crazy))))).

This was the bravest thing you have ever made, know that you did the right thing,
No matter what the outcome is going to be, you are doing this for yourself.

I’m soooooooooo proud of you.

Keep posting please.

AND BE PROUD OF YOURSELF.

TONY.

FLT2H

I feel awful, that I have kicked him again. He would often ask me if there were anymore surprise coming..well surprise! Here comes the truth!...

I feel horrible that I have hurt him yet again) scared ,(that I have hurt him so deeply he will leave) and yet releived that he knows the full truth.

It is out there on the table. I guess I can only hope & pray that the next move will be to recovery and not out the door....

He is going to ask for a lot of details...it is the way he is...he will ask...how and when..who is better...yadda yadda...yadda...

How do I not make this worse?

"How do I not make this worse?"

By being completely honest in your answers to his questions. You can do this!

Congratulations 2C! You did a very honorable thing! As a BS I know what he is feeling. His mind is reeling with thoughts and he doesn't even know what to ask first. He might just blurt out one question, that will lead to another, and yet, another, and the 2 of you could be up talking till 4:00am! Yup, that happened to us.

I had to bite my tongue and be be very patient so that he felt comfortable answering. If I started to sound angry or upset he would back off.

It's very hard for US to hold in our emotions when we hear the truth. And after hearing the truth, we always wonder if we really ever hear truths again, or are they 1/2 truths or even outright lies. Trust flies out the window. It's very hard and you will have to endure watching his pain.

You should see if he would be willing to read SAA. It helped my tremendously!

Hand in there 2C!!!!! Each day filled with honesty will make you feel better!

2crazy,

i understand.

i had 2 major d-days in my scenerio. it took me 7 months from d-day 1 to d-day 2. and the missing info in my case was HUGE. we are talking about...

d-day 1 - had an PA with someone i met from internet

to

d-day 2 - had an PA while engaged with fellow college student, after about 5 yrs of marraige with co-worker and the more recent stuff was not just 1 person from the internet but several and then also with a good friend of his.

my story is really really nasty.

but we are recovering.

and YOU BEING HONEST is the thing that can help you recover too.

you really have to believe in that and take pride in the fact.

i know it seems unfair to feel anything positive considering how much he is hurting but allow yourself to feel proud of yourself. OK?

i am always humbled by the amount of BSs that post support to us FWS...

The double edged-sword of truth:

Feeling like S*** because of what I have done, and the damage I have caused, and of what could yet come...

Feeling proud of what I have accomplished thus far, being able to speak the truth, even when knowing it would cut him deep. Staying the distance and keeping the NC "intact"...

How can I begin to ask him to understand, that I too am in pain...yet rejoicing?

I will follow his lead, and answer his questions honestly. Although the answers may be painful for him to hear, I will trust that it is the best way.

Thank you..thank you..to all who help guide, and become the "voice of reasoning" for those of us in the depths of the fog....

I am making my way up out of the fog....think it is stuck around my ankles!!!

hang in there 2crazy. my prayers are with you and your DH.

i'm here if there is anything i can do.

2crazy,

Here's the deal, from a BH. I'm almost 3 years into recovery.... and yet, I still don't feel my fww has ever sympathized with MY pain. I know you feel a ton of pain over losing your OM. I know you feel a great amount of sacrifice in 'giving him up'. I know you feel shame over betraying your husband. I know you feel sad over hurting your husband. BUT, what would have meant the most to me, back then, and still today, is my wife talking to me about my pain. Acknowledging that it must have been very hard, to swallow down the pride, and stick it out in the face of adversity. I really haven't ever gotten much of a thank you, aside from bday cards and anniversary cards, for being here.

I'm not looking for groveling. I'm looking for acknowledgement that to stick out the pain, it was hella hard, and that it was appreciated. It's no stinkin picnic for a BS to stick out the absolute CRAP time emotions of a FWS going through withdrawl. It might suck as much as being in the actual affair times. You sit there and think about your FWS sitting beside you, looking ill, gaunt faced, ashen, dull eyes...and she is sitting there thinking about how much she misses the OM while you are there, grinding out the work...the kids...the mortgage.

Finally, advice for your husband. When you have a question that comes to mind, slow down with it. Write it down. Come back to it tomorrow. If it is still a big deal tomorrow, evaluate that question for possible answers. What is it gonna do for you, what will it satisfy in the department of need to know. I would look at those questions, and put them in my wallet, or my journal, and revisit them in 3 months or 6 months, depending upon the damage the question could do to myself and my recovery. If I found them still important after that decent amount of time, I asked the question.

Guess what, I didn't ask any questions. In the end, all I really needed to know was that she had sex. Of course it was good. Of course it was fun. Of course it was exciting. Those things are no brainers. To lie about it would be to insult the person that asked the questions. The where's, the when's, the how often's? Those are the ones you might not be able to get away from. You may find that some places you used to love to visit, are now forever banned by him. Something as simple as a restaurant that you may have loved, even before the affair, it might trigger him, and so, he says no, never again will I give that place a penny of mine or my families.

Let him know you messed up. Let him know that you said things that you wish you could change, but can't. All you can do is try to show him you meant better for him than you gave him this past 1.5 years. Let him know you want to be a better wife to him. Then SHOW him that. Finally, find a way to admire him. If you don't, he will leave. Eventually, you will lose him, because he will need to feel his wife admiring him at some point.

And, I am extremely proud of you. It was a scary scary scary thing to admit the truth. But, you can not deny, it does set you free. No longer are you prey to any threats from the OM of telling your husband. No longer are you prey to Satans lies about your being honest with your husband. You have that now. You have given him the power to demonstrate his love for you, to show you what a deep love he has. I guess, now, pray for him. Pray for strength for your husband to fight past the pain, and to soften his heart to you. I'm quite sure, it is quite like a rock right now.

-hang in there

2C,

I am sure you feel that great weight lifted from your shoulders, now that all the secrets are out in the open.

When he says "any more surprises?" You can honestly say NO THAT'S IT!

Again, let me recommend you both sitting down with a pro-marriage marriage counseler quickly!!

There are also different ways to deal with your H's questions...like he can only ask 2 questions a day; or he writes the questions down and puts them all in a box. You take one out at a time and answer it, or put it back in if you don't want to answer it at that time and pick another, and answer that one.

He must ask these questions...and you must realize, in order to heal and recover, you must answer them. He may decide real quick that he does not want to get too detailed. Or he may realize he doesn't need to ask any more. But you must stand up straight and tall and answer them honestly.

As he asks these questions, he MUST remain calm and collected. No love busters or screaming, yelling, or foaming at the mouth. That is totally part of the deal. If he starts going off, you simply stop the discussion and advise him, that you will continue at a later date when he is recovered.

Look at it as part of your penance. Also as you honestly tell him all the secrets, the total A will become more tainted and shameful to you...which in turn will make NC that much more easier.

It is a painful thing for both parties, but you both can come through this stronger and actually closer.

As has been said here before, though, concentrate on HIS pain for now.

See, you have had these 15 months to adjust yourself to your (if you will) new life. You have become accostomed to your situation and done your rationalizing and defensive thinking to help you live with what you have done.

It is all brand new to him, and honey, you have no idea what he is feeling. It is the worst thing you can imagine. So TRY to empathize with him and hold him and continue to tell him how sorry you are. You prolly can't say that too many times. You can tell him how painful this is for you too, but, to tell you the truth, there is no comparison between the two.

I am not saying that to load the guilt onto you, we know you have enough of that, just trying to bring reality to the front.

You ripped the band-aid off. That was the hardest thing to do. Now the healing and recovery can begin.

You did fine. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

krk

Thanks Rook & Krusht...your words






will keep playing in my mind, as we sit in silence,not knowing what to say... as I close my eyes, and bite my tongue, through the "ugly" words...

I have told him, that I am "thankful" that he loves me. thankful that he is man enough to be "strong" and endure the hurt, and patient enough to stay with me through this ordeal. I tell him that all I can offer is my honesty, and reassure him that I will become the wife he needs, one who is commited to only him...that if I could take the pain away I would. we hug, and hold on to each other alot right now...it feels wonderful to be enveloped inside the arms of someone who loves you unconditionally.

I would have never guessed..that he would or could love me this much. It is a gift and one I am greatful to receive.

I had let the "fear" of the truth, paralyze my judgement. I let the fantasy of the OM cloud my vision. After all that happened so easily, so "naturally"..was so easy to slip away into the fantasy world.

To others who may be in the same "boat"...throw the oars into the water...be brave, be strong, stand up for yourself...and for your marriage...be truthful, no matter what the cost. Who knows you too may receive a "special gift"...in the very least you will be able to stand..unparalyzed by fear...

We are beginning our "REAL" recovery now..the work is yet to begin...I know it will be a long hard journey...but at least we going together....

FLT2H

I will certainly need your prayers, as you know this will be tough, I am sure there will be days, that i will want to run..I am sure if my H decides to contact the OM again or his W..then I will "hear" from him...that will be difficult..but I will have my H with me this time..for strength..no secrets, no hiding....

I am hanging in there..if only by a thread...but so far it has been strong enough!

Have you changed your email and cell number so OM cannot contact you?

LA

2,

I am thinking that things can only get better from here. It is like you are going to begin to climb up the 1st part of the roller coaster. Things are going to be rough and imperfect.

But then, so is life. But remember, once around the track, so to speak, and the roller coaster ends, then you ride the rocket ship which only goes UP!

2C,

""it feels wonderful to be enveloped inside the arms of someone who loves you unconditionally.
I would have never guessed..that he would or could love me this much. It is a gift and one I am greatful to receive.""

Sounds like you've got a very good man there. Knowing how hard he loves you will make you both grow closer.

Don't fudge it up!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

krk

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> KEWL ... another affair bites the dust!

Pep

LA...

changing my e-mail would be a pain..I use it for school..work..and other volunteer activities...I did however BLOCK his e-mail address..so I won't get anything from him...

As for my cell ..he would never call...my H would be able to track that particular item...and the last thing the OM would want is my H at his door!...and since "D-Day" ...I agreed to tell my H "if" OM tries to contact me, in any way...

working our recovery...every minute...every day....

don't forget to

~breathe~

and

~exercise~

and

~have some fun~

Pep

I'm looking for your protection here...no bash.

You can block his numbers on the cell, too, can't you?

I'm really happy you're being transparent, committed...and that you took that huge step to earn your F in FWW...I promise you, it's worth everything...to you.

And your marriage.

Follow Pep's advice, too...reward yourself for each hour of no contact...be it with a bit of self-praise, chocolate or a huge, joyous sigh...

LA

((((((((((2CRAZY))))))))))

this is all I'm going to say.

I wish you where my wife.
Tony

Tony,

My guess is...the battle has just begun.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Besides...you said your WW was here reading..that is a start..I came here looking for guidance too. If she is here looking, she is aware that something needs to change...hopefully she will find courage, and strength while reading among the trials and errs of others here.
Hopefully, she will begin posting (it is therapuetic)..once you begin to type it..say it..read it...you begin to believe it...and know it..nd change it....

Dude,

""((((((((((2CRAZY))))))))))

this is all I'm going to say.

I wish you where my wife.""



Bordering on..."reading this and feeling uncomfortable".

Ya know?

I believe he made that statement in the context of:

Wishing his wife, would open her eyes and see some light!

'cause if it was anything weird..I ain't drivin'down that road!!!!!

Oops… Sorry Krusht !!!! This is not what I meant.

Thank you 2crazy for clarifying, it.

Quote:

“My guess is...the battle has just begun…”

You are absolutely right, I know you are still in pain but even the pain will feel good
Now, you did the right thing and you should be proud of yourself,
I think everybody here is proud of you.

Sorry again Krusht.

2crazy keep updating please.

Tony.

ROFL...sorry...just am...

Krusht...Tony's English is his third language...and it's funny to me is I got what he meant...without going down that road...

However...I LOVE 2C's response...so worth the slip, uh, trip.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

2C,

"Hopefully, she will begin posting (it is therapuetic)..once you begin to type it..say it..read it...you begin to believe it...and know it..nd change it...."

This is one of the most awesomely stated truths about posting...thank you!

LA

Morning all!

Wondering if any of you would be able to offer some "what to watch fors" as we begin our recovery. I continue to read many of the threads from BSs, so I can try to better understand what he is going through...I know to expect, out of control emotions... up one minute, down the next. Feelings of yes I can make this work..and God! I want out now!

How can I, guide my BH through this emotional storm? What can I do to support without becoming a doormat? How can I encourage him to talk about the million thoughts that are going through his mind, at any given moment? And the BIGGEST ONE OF ALL!...How do I begin to earn back trust, without becoming suffocated? (that will be the hardest one for me.. as that was one of the major problems in our marraige before!)

I am trying to reassure him, that things will be okay (although I know, that right now, it is falling on deaf ears)...I tell him that I chose to stay and work on the marriage. That I chose HIM!...that I am so very thankful and blessed that he has shown me, that his love for me can endure all the hurt I have caused.

I know there are no guarentees , that we will stay together. There is only hope & faith that this will work..that we can work this through...

have you read SAA?

it's a darn good outline of what to expect and a blueprint for recovery....

you can order it from this site's bookstore .... they will deliver it in brown paper ... so your postal worker friends will think you're getting porn

LOL <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Pep

I wouldn't emphasize the 'choose him' part too much. For the BS, there was a choice made back when you got married. There weren't supposed to be any others. You will get him mad most likely by bringing it up. Also, right now, just be there, and be very open to him about your coming and goings. Check in with him, just like you were a teenager again. It sucks, but you put yourself there. Be honest about contact. Immediately, if the OM tries to contact you, just say out loud, oh, hang on, let me get who you want to talk to...and hand the phone to your husband. No secret little whispers, just hand him the phone. IF YOU CAN PULL THAT OFF, YOU CAN WIN THIS BATTLE.

Finally, you probably don't want inside his head too much right now. Most of the thoughts aren't too good. Probably alot of stuff in there right now that you just don't even want to know he is thinking about. Right now, just take his actions. He is there, and he is trying. Are you really worried about him giving you too much love? Suffocating you? Man. I think something is still screwy there in your head. I always sat here thinking that is what all wives wanted, for there husbands to not know anyone else existed in the world but themselves! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> That is only half a wink, I'm part serious there.

-hang in there

2crazy, like you noted, he will not trust you. And he shouldn't. You will have to earn back his trust. One of the best ways you can do that is to open up your life to him. Be COMPLETELY TRANSPARENT. Give him all cell phone, voicemail and computer passwords. Account for all of your time to him by staying in touch with him throughout the day. Call him at the times you were calling the OM. It will take a lot of hard work on your part, but trust can be restored.

Secondly, I would send him here to us and let us guide him through that emotional storm. We have been through this and are equipped to support him.

Has he made a clear decision to stay in the marriage, 2crazy?

RookKev is right about this. Please don't say this to your BS; it will not reassure him, but pi** him off. It is not reassuring at all, but galling.

I agree with Mel about being completely transparent. I would also add a couple other points. IMHO, it doesn't take hours each day for a few weeks to earn trust back. It takes a few minutes each day over many weeks.

The second thing I would advise is to try and take your emotion out of it. There are many things, routines, a person does during a normal day, week, month and year to keep themselves and their family healthy. Brushing your teeth, annual physicals, working out, etc. I don't think people get to emotional about these routines. Make revealing yourself part of a normal routine you do for your health.

Third, if you can, be proactive about it. What I mean is, yes give him passwords, cell phone access, etc. But don't make him watch you. That feels suffocating. Instead do things like once a month, print your cell phone bill out and give it to him and ask him if he wants to go through it together.

Finally, be sensitive to what the BS is feeling about trust. Try to empathize. It really doesn't matter what you actually did in the past to hide your A, the BS suspects everything for a while. There will be things he views as suspicious that you are going to think that is just plain crazy. When he does, try to understand it from his POV. But even if you can't stay calm, don't argue about it and just ask what would he like you to do different.

Just some tips.

I think you are doing very well. Keep it up.

213..,may I call you 213?

""Oops… Sorry Krusht !!!! This is not what I meant.""

No worries! I can over react sometimes.

From another SoCal booyeeee.

2C,

""What can I do to support without becoming a doormat?""

OK, a little red flag right there!

I have been bringing up MC (marriage counseling) with a PRO-marriage counseler on almost every post on this thread.

Would you both consider going? The MC, if competent, would be helpful in getting you both to talk about things.

IMHO

krk

HI 2crazy
how are you today?
any news?

Tony.

Afternoon!...

We are trudging along..He has so many quesitons that he wishes he knew the answer to without having to "hear" the answer. So I let him set the pace for the day, and I am learning to listen, not answer right away..just let him "talk" to get it out of his head. If he wants an answer he will ask the question again...then I will answer. Trying to be more sensitive and aware of what I am saying, giving the truth without blurting..hurtful words...

We are taking life in little steps..one emotion..one thought,at a time...it is a start...it is the beginning of re-building

A great weekend to all...hang in there...keep working towards your goals!

[color:"red"]EGG ZAK LEE [/color]

pace yourself

Pep

PS

if recovery is NOT excruciatingly painful at times

you probably are not doing something right!

hang in there

Thanks Pep!

Yes most days are painful...but then there are those GREAT moments..that make me say..."God! I was so foolish not to have seen this man in front of me!"

How I wish we could have gotten to this point..of talking..of honesty..of caring about each other... without the A!...

I know that we will have rough waters ahead for sometime...and at some point he may say "He can't do it"..but I will be thankful for the many GREAT moments we are sharing now..and no matter what happens we have become closer..that can never hurt!

Evening 2crazy.

Consider the A as chemo for an ill marriage; you cannot heal without the pain.

Just my 2c.

Don’t regret anything, you will be just fine, keep your head up you are on the right track.

Tony.

2Crazy,

This is my first time reading your thread. I saw that you had posted to me on the Pep thread, so I wanted to see what was going on with your sitch.

All I can say is... wow!! Good for you!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> You are doing so well. You have also gotten a lot of wonderful advice here, so I don't have much to add. But I will continue to read and post if I can be of any help.

((2C))

Katie Mae

Hi 2crazy I hope you are doing ok please update.

I thought I tell you first My wife snaped out of it,
in a good way we are begining recovery, had a great sunday
I will post the full storry on my thread.

how are your days?

Hey Tony,

My days are slow...but we get through. We discover little things about each other everyday that we had forgotten (well maybe ignored)...

I work at telling "HIM" my thoughts...and how my day went...instead of writing or calling the OM (well FOM NOW!) 32 days of NC!!!

It is like any other addictive behavior. You have to CHANGE your daily habits!....does he still creep into my head...absolutely, just not as often, and generally in a different "light" these days.

I know my H has many unanswered questions, and he is beginning to want some answers, to some tough questions. I know that the truth is what he seeks. I know from reading that he needs to know certain details, so as not to think or imagine the worst scenarios...but it is still tough!...

So I appreciate the good days...savor the great moments..and endure the bad ones!..There is proof that there is life on the other side of the tunnel!..Just ask some of the veteran MB'ers here!

So I keep the faith...and continue to do whtever is necessary to regain that place in his heart & soul...where the thought of me does not bring pain....

Hang in there hunny!

You can make it....

how is your energy level now-a-days?

feeling better?

Pep

Morning Pep!

(well at least it is AM here in W. PA.,,,)

My energy level is still a bit slow...at least by my standards, I am usually chasing my own tail, and going full steam ahead. I find myself "tired" these days, this is emotionally draining, on both parts.

We did start walking again last night, something we haven't done for about a month..so it felt good to get moving again...now we have to just keep moving!

Have to get some things accomplished at work this AM, I will post later..my head is swimming lately...and I need to get it out and down..maybe it will make sense to someone else, or help that "light" go on!

Hi 2crazy

The emotional stress is hard on the body I feel like I’ve been run over by a train.it will get better.

I like your new signature.

I don’t think you ever left your husband’s heart and soul, IMO, because my wife never left my heart, or my soul.

Tony.

Needing a "pep" talk this morning.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

I find myself in a bit of a "funk" today...it has been 34 days of NC...and although most days the thought of the OM makes me seeth..(after all..he ran back to the "safety" of his real life when my H called and confronted him!)..but, today I find myself wondering how he is doing...his 50th birthday is this Sunday, and next weekend he will be at a "golf outing" we had made plans to be together at the resort...maybe it is because those "dates" are nearing, that I find myself thinking of him....I am doing all the things I should, like thinking of my H, my kids, my family & friends...trying to stay busy so as not to let him crowd my mind....maybe this is part of the process...those waves that come and go...the "test"....Although I have no intention of contacting him, I am bothered by the fact that he has crept back into my thoughts...

anyway...wondering if any of the FWW have any insight...or any "been theres" to help me through!

Thanks...

2Crazy,

He will creep back when you are down, or just shifting gears from time to time. Many years ago there was a discussion about triggers. It was lengthy but it offered some great insights for both the BS and the WS.

It seems us humans seem to think in quantum time units, days, weeks, YEARS. What was I doing last year? Is often considered. It was decided that the first year was often the worst for triggers because every day is a new day connected to a day in which the affair was going on, about to start or just ending. A year after the end, every day is connected to a day in recovery. The next year every day is connected to a year BEYOND recovery. And so it goes.

You are remembering anniversaries now with the OM. Next year you won't be. This seems to be true for both BS's and WS's. So hang in there, much of what you are going through is NORMAL.

May I make another suggestion, quit counting days. You are far enough along to start counting WEEKS (congratulations <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> ). So you will be counting months, and then it is years and who the heck counts years? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

You are just 1 month into NC, your are 4 weeks into NC, you are 34 days into NC. Soon it will be 2 months, 8 weeks, 60 days, and on it goes.

You are doing well, but my question to you is ARE YOU SMILING? IF not, get with it. You have more to smile about right now than you can possibly realize but you might as well start realizing it...NOW.

Hope this helps.

God Bless,

JL

(((2Crazy)))

JL is exactly right... you are thinking about OM because you are feeling down. It took me a looong time to realize this.

I, like you, want nothing ever to do with OM but he still pops up in my head now and again. If any "feelings" surface with a thought, I know there is something wrong.

The last time it happened, my H was studying for finals and writing term papers. My best friend was out of town, and I wasn't speaking to my family. My need for conversation was going unfulfilled, so thoughts started drifting to OM (NOT wanting to see or talk to him, just thoughts... memories. I felt very depressed.) As soon as I realized this trigger, I asked H if he could make time to talk to me because I was feeling down. He did, and the thoughts of OM went away.

If things are going well with you, you wouldn't even think of OM's birthday, outings you planned, etc. I completely missed OM's birthday this year. When I realized one day that it had passed, I was absolutely thrilled. I hadn't even thought about it once that day, or for weeks after.

2Crazy, you are doing so well! I am proud of you. I am also proud of the advice you are giving other FWW here. You have grown so much, in such a short amount of time!

JL gives good advice when he tells you to smile... I know it is hard (it's difficult to pat yourself on the back after doing something so horrible... I've been there) but you are doing great.

How are you feeling this evening?

KM

SOS!

For as much as I have learned...I guess I am S-L-O-W to put it into practice...

We are getting through our days, talking about what is important, what we need to recover, and what the future can hold for us. ALL GOOD THINGS!

The one obstacle seems to be EXPOSURE to the OMW....I know..I know...I have read the many posts here and what Harley has to say about why we SHOULD....I know that she has a right to know that he has had this A...that something is missing in their marriage..that there are needs not being met....that she will help to enforce the NC...yadda yadda...I know both sides of the story ( from those are BS and those wo are WS)

I guess that I still feel the need to protect HIM...for some *dang* reason...I should hate that he gets to weasel out...that he can keep going on and not have any consequences....I know that my H seeks revenge....and seems to not be able to move past this....but I don't want him doing it for revenge...ultimately she will believe her H, he will worm & squirm & lie...that is what those of us in As do when exposed...and although I know that what she chooses to do with the information is her choice....I suppose in reality I still find it difficult to "betray" the OM....

Throughout this process, coming out of the "fog" and seeing my way clear has been in some ways about changing my mindset....seeing things differently...so what I am seeking here is advice or guidance from those who have been there...to help me change my view!!!!

Maybe I should re-read again...SAA....or post in the recovering section...or start all over????

Or get on a different ride!...'cause this ride is no fun right now! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Hi 2crazy-
I've been following your story, since your very first post was on one of my threads <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I'm really impressed with how far you've come in only a couple months!!

About exposure- I thought that is the responsibility of your husband? He should call the OM's wife, not you. Because if you do it then it's also "contact".

Does your husband want to do this?

insert

empathy

where you once placed

entitlement

........... don't react to this message .... until you've thought it over for a day

best of luck!

Pep

Hey 90...

Yes,I know that the exposure is something H needs to do to ensure NC, but he will usually ask me what he should do. He thinks that she should know so that she can decide if she wants to stay married to such a %@$#^ (insert any number of names!)however, he doesn't want to tell because he knows, first hand, the type of pain he will be inflicting on the OMW and their daughters (who are grown-2 still live at home).. I know that he also wants to EXPOSE to make OM's life miserable, to exact some pain & revenge...

The problem is that my husband's work takes him to the area where OM lives. H's company is doing work in the area, and so my H is subjected to working very near to OM's house. It is tearing my H apart to not bang on the front door!...so he normally calls me instead...and I talk him down!...(Not a good idea for him to do this on company time!)..

I remind of him the consequences of doing this on company time, and tell him if he feels absolutely compelled to tell OMW than do so with a phone call or some other means. BUT NOT ON COMPANY TIME!

So because my H tosses with this he will ask for my opinion..which is just as conflicted...so I normally plead the 5th and tell him that I can't make that decision. That although I know she has a right to know for a variety of reasons, I just can't, make the decision for him....

Anyway...I was wondering if anyone has rrecovered without this part of the process? Is it absolutely necessary ? Can we actually heal & recover if we do not take this step?

Thanks...and by the way..just in case Pep is reading this too.. I am thinking...(see I didn't respond-right away!) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> *snort*

Hey 2crazy.

Do what you advised me to do, read your post, this is killing your husband, and it’s tearing you apart to, it will continue doing this as long as it’s in the air, bottom line
It is affecting your recovery; you need to tell OMW and move on, what she does with
The info is her going to be her choice, sometimes the truth hurts but the lies hurt more,
Do it today before tomorrow.
And let the chips fall in their places.

Tony

Post deleted by 2crazy

2crazy don't beat yourself up, you did not go back to square 1, you made a mistake, now don't respond to any contact, from OM, and keep moving ahead.
this is a very small setback you are learning, keep up
the good work.

(((((2crazy)))))

what will make you stop all contact?

in AA ... they talk about "low bottom drunks" ... meaning, the person who has to lose everything before they decide to climb up & out

PLEASE

don't be a "low bottom" WW

We've seen too many of them ... returning to this site ~after~ they have lost everything with any meaning to them ... and it's just too damn pathetic for words ...

don't do this to yourself

Pep

Morning All!

Life is good, we spend time everynight talking about what goes through our mind (good & bad)...sometimes we don't talk which is good as well, we just hold each other and in the silence I can feel his strength and love for me...it is amazing!

We have commited to our marriage and to making it stronger and better than before. I remember reading a post where someone said "Your old marriage is dead." So true...now is the time to make this marriage what we want..we have changed, our marriage has changed. Recovery is a work in progress. Some days you cruise along smoothly and other days the waves are rough!..

I am lucky to have a man who is strong enough to ride the rough waters, and who loves me enough to stay the course. I have discovered that what I was missing in my life was in front of me all along...

For the WS who may still read this or follow...know that the "road out" is hard...it hurts when you begin to see your A and the OM for the truth...the "cold hard facts" as they say...I can remembering thinking that "my relationship with the OM was sooo different"....he wasn't at all like that....well guess what..he was! it was! I was!...and in there lies the beginning of the healing and recovery!

Morning 2crazy.

I’m glad you are doing good, I felt you agony, and I feel your joy, the death of the old marriage was on my thread somewhere, keep up the good work, small steps forward from now on, try not to step back, and good luck, keep posting please, your story is inspiring,
You are a strong woman that saw the light through the fog, and kept going forward, you
Trusted yourself and got guidance from the wonderful people over here.

My wife did see the light 2 weeks ago, and for the first time in 3 years, I saw the woman I was fighting for, I enjoyed my wife for one week, then the A$$H01 called, then they met,
Now she is back in her fog.

Don’t let this happen to you 2crazy, please don’t.
I don’t know why your story moved me, and I feel close to you guys, but know that your husband adores you, and I’m glad you can feel his love.

Tony.

Thanks Tony,

Keep the faith...there were many times throughout this struggle where I battled back & forth between the OM & my H. Knowing the A needed to end..but not being able to actually break free… Last night while talking my H said he remembered that for a moment he thought he had really lost me...I replied that for a moment he almost did...but there was something holding me back from jumping off the ledge!...something made me stay...I know now that "something" was him...it was the fact that underneath all the ugliness there was still love. We needed to just find it again.

There is NC between me & the OM…however there has been contact between my H & the OM…my H has not yet exposed to the OMW, he is still battling that one out …the OM is of course calling and begging to be the one to tell her…wants it to come from him not someone else..(YEAH RIGHT!!!) anyway..for me…it is the fact that my H has been sure enough of where we are at the moment to share with me..the conversations he has had with the OM…as difficult as it was and sometimes still is to hear what he is saying..it also helps me to see the OM for what he is to me….NOTHING! that realization hits ya clearer than anything else!...

You say that she was “awake” for a week or so….hopefully she will CHOOSE to return to you completely!... and stay in the light!...keep the faith…take care of yourself!..

Thank you 2crazy.

I’m trying I just don’t think I have much fight left in me.

About your DH’s struggle to tell OMW.

I just had a thought abut that and this is only a suggestion.

Why don’t you take this cup away from him and you tell the OMW.

I know it’s hard but the outcome is better IMO, coming out of you it’s a major blow
For OM, this will make him realize that you don’t want anything to do with him,
And it will be a huge deposit in your DH’s love bank; you will feel great about yourself
And this matter will be out of the table so you 2 could move on and deal with all the other
Stuff you need to address.

What do you think?


Tony

Thanks Tony,

I actually started a new post...with this very question..so my H can read the responses for himself.

Well the next chapter has begun…..H called OMW and left his name & number. OM told his wife, (H didn't leave him with much of a choice). OM called my H, and put his W on the phone. She told my H that she had gotten his message, and that she knew. he told her she could call him anytime and ask any question. And although he knows first hand the pain and shock she must be feeling, it was necessary for her to know. My amazing H told her that the 4 of us share 50/50 in this happening…and that he would be willing to share with her what he knew, to be sure that OM was telling her everything.

The feeling of FULL EXPOSURE is deafening .

It is there now, in plain view, wide open. It is the final nail in the coffin of the fantasy. Now the shattered pieces will fall. For the first time, “she” will have a face, a voice and a name. “she” has become real, and is someone I will have to come to terms with. I will now be held accountable to her as well. I must face the truth about the OM and about my A…the fantasy is dead, and with this comes the shame, the guilt, the realization is smack in my face!

Now real recovery can begin, and although I am afraid, I know that I have the strength and comfort of my H to lean on. Yes, I am learning to lean on HIM and confide in HIM. I am learning to show him that I do need him in my life. We are continuing to work through the days one at a time. I imagine that the next few days may get complicated and messy, with questions and accusations, as she begins to deal with and sort out her emotions. I am hopeful that we will get through this hoop as well.

Striving for full recovery ..and still trudging along the path!

2crazy <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

I will be moving to the recovery section now, so many questions, as we begin each day. Thoughts of the OM are still in my mind, but vaguely, almost an afterthought. More like wondering what and where, as opposed to wishing/wanting to be there.

I know that it will take many months for complete recovery. My husband still has many questions, and unsure feelings, but we deal with them one at a time, one day at a time. It is the "trust" factor. But I know that I must be transparent, and open about where I am, where I am going, and when I will be back. I hope that for him, he will begin to let go of some of the anger. Although he says he has forgiven me, he still has immense anger toward the OM.

"Thank You" to everyone who helped pull me from the depths of darkness, and let me see that there was light & hope at the end. When I think of the fear and the indifference, that I felt only a few months ago, I am appreciative of how much "lighter" I now feel. "The truth shall set you free". Yes it does, but with a price!

Although I will carry the burden of knowing that I destroyed our marriage, and I was responsible for those dark times, I am thankful for the amazing man who wants to continue this new journey with me, and rediscover each other.

I continue to read here daily, and gather information and insight from those who have been there, are still going through, and those who have just begun! It is wonderful that although we don't know each other we can still touch each others lives in such a positive way. Sometimes, the painful truth, from "outsiders" is the only way to see inside! Sharing our failures and successes with each other, is such a compassionate showing of our human nature.

To all who come here, continue to read, post and reach out…..

2crazy! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Well done...Mrs. and Mr. Crazy.

I like this:


Godspeed,
Mr. Wondering

2C,

To read of the steps your H took and your willing commitment to him and your M (even if it hurt), is highly encouraging. You both have given hope to this board and an example of how things can get better if BOTH partners work together.

U made my 'posting day'. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Thank you both for sharing your experience with us.

All the best to you both,

L.