Thanks Curious and Slammed. I wrote a long post and just lost it!!! Agggh.

Curious, your words based on your own experience are very heavy and mean a lot to me, thanks. I’ll keep reading up about PA disorder. It’s scary at times, though, because the description of it is just so about WH. It’s scary to think that there are millions of others who act and think like WH. Very disturbing. I really hope I will not run into another PA person in the future or I can avoid him.

WH is ultimately looking for instant ‘happiness/fun’ without paying any price, which is responsibility, efforts, giving, etc. He wants a woman who gives him full attention and unconditional love, regardless of how he acts. He wants freedom but when he wants to cuddle with her, he wants her to be there and do not want to be rejected. He does not want to feel inferior either. But he likes comfortable lifestyle, so if she makes ton of money but is willing to let him spend on his stuff without making any fuss or demanding that WH do more housework, he will be happy. And he does not want more kids, because that’s just too much work, so he wants a woman who does not want to have kids. And he likes great legs, so she must look great too and be willing to wear sexy outfit JUST for him at night.

While I feel that it will be extremely difficult for him to find someone like this, a part of me is afraid that he WILL find something and be happy. Maybe a young, naïve girl who is willing to put up with him no matter what – there might be someone like that. WH is not the kind of guy who finds happiness or fulfillment at work, so I know WH is looking for happiness through a woman. He loves DS4, but finds it too demanding to have kids; so again, he is looking for happiness mainly in a relationship with another woman. One of his sisters is blonde and attractive, and he told me once that when he was young, he fantasized about his sister sexually. Apparently he once rubbed his p#### against her legs, and she got very mad and told him that if he would ever do that again, she would chop his p#### off. When I heard the story long time ago, I felt it was so odd and disgusting but did not think maybe he requires treatment. That itself shows how messed up he is sexually.

And he is extremely manipulative and a compulsive liar. After living at his parents’ house for two months, trashing the whole place, he just lied to his mom who was furious about him staying there without permission: “sorry I stayed here without asking you guys, but I kept this place clean, didn’t I? Besides, I did not stay here often”. The truth was his sisters TOLD him to hire a professional cleaning lady before their parents come home, because the house was disgusting. AND WH was there the whole time, using their electricity, phone, gas, everything for free, and he was even driving his father’s vehicle, which of course he never mentioned to his parents (but they know because his sisters informed them). His mom told me that she would like to tell her son “do you really think you can find another woman who is willing to put up with you, the way you are? Good luck”. Frankly, she does not even want to talk about him. She is furious. His sisters are disguised wit him too.

So maybe a healthy individual will not be attracted to him. That goes back to my earlier argument that he has been attracted to unhealthy women who are not ‘threat’ to him nor will not require him to be an equal partner. Maybe that’s what he is looking for.

Slammed, I read your post and understand your pain, I really do. But our WH s are so messed up mentally. We can’t help them; we are neither doctors nor therapists. They really have to hit the bottom, and even then, if they choose not to see the reality, they won’t get healthy.

Milk

OK, this is bizzare. My friend was showing me how her online dating thing works and we found WH's profile! He said he is 'divorced' which is not true. Also he put down a different address. He said in his profile that he LOVES motorcycles and is looking for a woman who LOVES motorcycles.

milkshake,


I completely know where you’re coming from here. But I’ll tell you what I’ve learned: Even if he met someone like that who met all the qualifications you described, he still wouldn’t be happy. Because his PA-ness is fundamentally at odds with the intimacy inherent in any relationship. Once the relationship is established, even if the woman is meeting every single item on the PA man’s wish list, that PA behavior is going to kick in: he’s going to need to exert control, undermine the relationship, put her off her balance. And no matter how she reacts, it will make things worse. If she voices her hurt, he’ll start seeing her as controlling and domineering. If she acquiesces, he’ll see her as bland, boring, and weak.

So while I completely understand the painful sense that someone else is going to get the “good stuff” from him you’ve hungered for, I want to reassure you that it just isn’t going to play out that way. He doesn’t have any good stuff. For anyone.

One thing I’ve forgotten to mention in all this is that I experienced the utter filth, too. I’m not entirely sure what’s up with this. I think it may partly be due to the PA’s instinctive sense that cleaning is being controlled, and that by not cleaning, he is opposing the standards of his mother/mother/wife/landlord – even if those people aren’t really present. But I’m not certain that that’s what’s going on. With my PA, there is a nexus of PA behavior, alcohol addiction, porn addiction, and slovenliness that all seem to mutually reinforce each other. But I have not read anywhere about a high correlation of PA behavior with filthy living.


P.S. One thing I do to avoid losing my posts is to type them out in Word, then copy and paste them into the Reply area.

***But I have not read anywhere about a high correlation of PA behavior with filthy living.***

Me, neither - my strongly P/A H is a real clean freak. But he did grow up in utter squalor with an medication-addicted mother and 5 kids born in 7 years so he does have quite an aversion to it.

Mulan

Curious and Mulan - thanks for your input in regards to PA behaviors. WH's filthy living probably has nothing to do with PA, but with his immatureness, selfishness, impulsiveness, and ADHD. He has never been the most organized person, but when we were living together, because I would make a fuss over it, he tried to clean a bit. But since he moved out, no one bothers him with such 'small' things and he rather spends his time searching another woman at bars, online, etc. Because his place is such a mess, the pictures he used for the online dating thing were taken at his parents' house while they were on vacation (yes, when he just invited himself in without any permission). His best buddy from college told me once "Milk, I'm not a very organized person and I often drive my wife crazy, but I've never met anyone as filthy and disorganized as WH is, and he won't change, that's how he is". It's quite a comforting word, isn't it?

Whatever it is WH has - ADHD, compulsive behaviors, sex addiction, drug addiction - he has LOTS of problems he needs to address IF he wants to have a stable R with someone. Right now he cannot even have a healthy R with his own family. They don't even trust whatever WH says.

I just don't know how I got myself into this situation, but hopefully one day I can feel that this experience has taught me a lot to grow as a person.

So Curious and Mulan, are you with PA H's? How are they addressing their issues? Can PA be treated?

Thanks for your tip Curious about writing in WORD first – that’s what I do now each time.

Milk

milkshake,

No, I am not with my PA anymore. We had an on-off relationship for 7 years. I was so in love with him, which really doomed the relationship from the start. It gave him the freedom to be ambivalent and watch me turn sumersaults to try to persuade him that I truly was what he wanted and needed in a life partner. I did not know anything about PAs at that time. I can remember describing specific behaviors of his that are classic PA to other people, but I had no idea at the time. I just thought they were his idiosyncracies. I always wonder now if those people I was talking to were saying to themselves “How does she not see what is really going on here?”

As my relationship with the PA was winding down (he had moved to another city, so we were drawing it to a formal close), I met the man who is now my H. He’s wonderful. During the first 6-12 months of dating, I could not help but secretly rage against the XBF for making everything so difficult and making me believe my expectations were unreasonable. It became so obvious when I got involved with H that my expectations were completely normal and reasonable, and that he was actually thrilled to meet them. Being with H has really gone a long way towards helping me view the previous relationship more objectively and realistically.

My PA, in the mean time, has endured some sad years. He made some bad career moves, fueled in part by disfunctional relationships at work. He was unemployed for a long while, but seems to have fixed that now (but now his retirement fund is gone). His drinking has steadily increased, to the point that he’s been in detox at least twice that I know of. He got into a relationship with a married woman, who eventually broke up with him to go back to her husband. I don’t believe he’s had any other serious romantic relationships, but I hear he has a female friend who has an obvious crush on him. This is a common occurrence for him, and he milks it. It’s a way to get the validation he needs, without actually falling into the intolerable trap of real intimacy. And I think he’s perfected an approach that allows a woman to infer that there might be some hope of a future together, without him ever having to directly state his position one way or another. He also, evidently, carries on the occasional online sexual affair. Again, relationship without intimacy. He and I are in touch occasionally, and we have a friend in common who keeps tabs on him. All in all, he is a very sad, very lonely man. He’s not happy with his life at all. He will be 50 next year, and I honestly question whether he will live to see 60.

PAs and treatment: everything I’ve read indicates that PAs are among the least open to treatment. The obstructionism that they practice as a standard part of getting along in the world makes it impossible for them to cooperate with their therapists. Instead they undermine the therapeutic intent at every turn. It is hard for me to discern to what extent my PA is aware of his own behavior. He hates his mother and still feels rage toward his parents about his upbringing. I suspect he does have moments when he thinks, “If they hadn’t been such jerks, I wouldn’t have such trouble with my adult relationships.” True enough, but I doubt his thinking ever goes any farther than that. Anytime his thoughts encroach on the uncomfortable, he drowns them out with alcohol. I believe eventually the alcohol will do enough damage to his brain that he won’t be capable of making those sorts of connections even if he wants to.

Thanks for sharing Curious. WH had a rough upbringing too, and he still has a lot of anger towards his parents. He used to go see IC on a weekly basis, because initially it was mandated by the court (related to his 2004 sex addiction arrest), but he stopped going this fall, to save money.

His therapist told him NOT to date anyone if he divorce me, for at least the next 5 years, because he does not think WH is capable of maintaining any healthy relationship. WH told me this himself, and told me "so I don't have any intention of dating anyone", yet a few days after this statement was made, he was out looking for another woman. This August when he got mad (because I was not making it easy for him to return home), he said "fine, let's get divorce - I guess this means you will find someone else to get married and have kids, but I don't think I will ever get married again" - and a few weeks later, I found his posting on the online dating site.

Observing him, sadly I have to agree that he will ever get healthier, because he does not think he has that much problem. He knows he was arrested twice (sex addiction and DUI) within less than two years, and he DOES have some issues, but he firmly believes they are a RESULT of his unhappiness in life, which was caused by ME.

Thanks for listening....

Milk

Milkshake,

I just thought I'd stop by to say hello. It has been quite a while, hasn't it? I have been keeping very, very busy, but I think about this board and the people here often.

I hope you had a great holiday weekend with lots of quality time w/DS4. Will you be seeing your parents again any time soon?

Take care.

My God, it's soooooo great to hear from you svb1! How are YOU? Did you end up purchasing a townhome you liked? Do you still work for the same company? And.... are you dating?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I'm doing fine. I've been sick way too long this month, but am finally getting over it. I still have many moments when I feel sad, mostly for DS4, but am doing much better than a year ago. I changed my jobs too, in September.

I feel very sad for WH, and also feel sad that I could not tell that he would face these problems when I first met him. He had a complicated childhood, so had I known a bit more about MLC, PA, ADHD, addictions, or any mental issues that could stem from bad childhood, I would have been wiser to avoid M with him. But I was young and did not see this coming at all.

I feel sad that because of that, now DS4 has to suffer. But at the same time, I'm thankful that this happened when he is still young. WH moved out when DS was still 2, so he really does not remember WH living with us anymore. That should make things a bit easier on him.

When I look at WH today, I really do not have much feeling left for him. This is sad too but guess time does change a lot of things. Still, maybe because I am a woman, memories do make things tough for me at times. For WH, it must be easier since men do not really dwell on memories like we do. But really, if we did not have DS4 together, even though D would still be very difficult for me, I think I would be able to truly believe that I'm better off without him. It's just because we have a son together, our 'tie' will never be cut, in a way, and that sort of stinks. There will always be a reminder of our bitter experience.

Well, there is nothing I can gain from dwelling on it though, I am trying to stay positive. DS4 and I had a nice Thanksgiving although I was sick throughout the weekend.

Again, thanks for stopping by!

Milk

Hi Milk !
Sorry you were sick. OK now?

Hi S !
Update?
Not the little itty bitty ones, but the comprehensive kind.

SS

Hi SS, I'm doing much better now. Thanks!

Yesterday WH picked DS4 up from school and brought him back on time (probably for the first time ever!!!). He did ask yesterday in his email if DS4 could stay over but I stuck with my 'no, I want DS4 home by certain time' message I have been giving. He did not 'fight' my idea this time and just backed off. But I'm cautious. You never know what kind of evil plans WH may have.

Anyway, he even gave DS4 a bath so that was nice of WH (that way DS4 could just go to bed and sleep longer). I did not feel too comfortable but since DS4 insisted that WH stay there for a while to play with him, I just let him stay for a few extra minutes. I gave his insurance card back, and he showed me his 'skin problem' he thinks could be a cancer on his face. I saw it, it did not look like cancer at all, but I did not comment. WH left his family to be 'free' and 'happier', so from now on even when he feels scared because of his medial issues or work issues or whatever they are, he has to deal with them alone or with someone else. He probably wanted me to worry, and went on by saying "I need to have it checked out because I do not want to lose half of my face". Whatever. I did not say anything and pretended I did not hear his comment.

Then he asked about my upcoming trips (I have a business trip to Europe next week and then I'll take DS4 to Florida with my friend and her daughter the following week). He asked whether I'm going to Florida with my mom. I told him about my vacation (since he needs to pick up our dog during our vacation) when we met on Thanksgiving day, and at that time he asked if we were going with my friends (they are a couple). I said no, then he further asked who we were going with, so I just said "my friend". So why was he asking if I was going with my mom anyway??? WH is so ADHD and just does not remember anything he heard, I swear.

So I said no, and he asked if I was going with DS4 alone so I said no. I really did not think it was NONE of his business to know who I would be traveling with, but in case he reports to his lawyer (who knows, he might say I will endanger DS4 by not disclosing the identity of my friend we will be traveling with!); I told him my friend's name. He seemed to be relieved to hear that, but then asked "is the guy (she has a guy roommate) going too?” to which I said no. Then he told me to 'be careful' because two girls are traveling alone and Florida is 'not safe'. ?????

I've been to Florida numerous times before. I have no idea where this 'not safe' comment came from. Besides, we are not really 'girls' - we are single mothers! Oh, that's right; I'm quite not single yet...

I think IF he truly thinks he might have cancer, that must be scaring him to death, and making him act 'nice' towards me. In case he is really sick, I'm sure he wants his 'family' to worry about him....... But this 'niceness' has so much calculation behind it. Come on, he has been trying nothing but to find a new woman for the past 2 years! And just because he might think he is sick and maybe because he does not have anyone serious yet, he wants me to act as if I am a worried wife??????

I don't know, but that does not matter. His lawyers continue to send nasty documents and WH WILL be sorry for this later. In the past he used the excuse that his lawyers handled this case in a nasty way, not HIM, but that is the biggest BS I've ever heard. They work for HIM, and thus WH has the power to control them. I told mine not to get too nasty. That is not the point of this. I even told mine that I never wanted to get divorced. WH, on the other hand, called me an unfit mother (in order to get a full custody, but he even told his sisters and parents that I am an excellent mother), that I have mentally and verbally abused him, and that I have repeatedly threatened to kidnap our child. Whatever. He even had a nerve to ask ME to pay for his attorneys AND give ALL OF OUR ASSETS because I make more money. At that time, the differentials in our salary was minimal. I don't care if this is the standard approach; I really lost my respect for WH for letting his lawyers handle our case this way.

OK, I'm just venting........ It's weird, when I don't see him, I tend to remember 'sweet' memories which make things very tough sometimes for me, but when I actually see him, I always remember how selfish, immature and evil creature WH has become. It's strange.

Milk

Hi Milk,
Glad you are feeling better and had a good Thanksgiving.

I've stayed very busy- knowing that the house was going to
have to be sold, I spent much of the long weekend working
to get it ready- dusted, oiled wood, cleaned, sorted, did
some mopping, vacuuming, and even had my parents raking and
bagging leaves on Thanksgiving when they came over to eat
and watch a movie <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

After having to talk to WH to confirm I'd have insurance for
the ankle surgery and his being so difficult and unpleasant
about it, I was surprised that he left a message on Thurs.
saying "Happy Thanksgiving", and that he thought he might
go hiking (odd) as though he wasn't doing anything with OW
that day. I figured he'd likely either go to her house to
eat or they'd go out, as they did last year, and always
think it's dumb that he tries to act like they aren't still
together or that it's just very "casual" when I know all
about her and the affair !
Strange, but not uncommon that he could be so nasty and
angry one day but call a day later being nice and wishing
me a nice holiday ! (My IC says this is very typical of
bipolar behavior) My day was okay- ate with my parents, did
some yardwork (it was a nice day) and watched a movie, then
just watched a movie and relaxed in the evening by myself.

Did much more around the house and yard over the rest of
the weekend and also went to a movie with friends and did
some errands/shopping.

Knowing the house was to be put up for sale by beginning of
December and still needing to clariy info about the insur
with WH, I finally did talk to him again on Monday. He did
agree to hold off filing any of the final D papers until at
least next week, so I will have coverage into at least mid-
January (have insur for 30 days after D is final), but still
was very insistent it be done in time to be finalized by end
of the year. He never has given me a real reason for this,
just will say it's a deadline he has "in his head", and that
he doesn't want it to drag over into the new year, but I
still think there is some kind of ultimatum from OW, he's
told her it's already done, they plan to marry soon, or
something else is involved...

At least WH did talk this time without yelling, cussing,
getting mad or hanging up on me- he is just so moody and
definitely still does not have his illness under control.
I do feel bad for him at times, thinking as hard as it is
for me to deal with him that it must be truly miserable to
BE him and have to be like that all the time !

Later he called back to say he talked to the realtor and he
was going to come Wed night (last night). The realtor we are
using is a business acqaintance of his who we were going to
use when planning (before the A) to sell this house and move
to that house he renovated and lives in now, and is a guy
with a good reputatation, plus was giving a better deal as
a "professional courtesy". So, I finished more around the
house Tues night and yesterday afternoon and the guy came
last night to do a "walk through" and the paperwork.
Was very strange to see WH since it's been a long time (he
had to be here for the walk-through and to sign papers) but
it went okay. (details on my thread). WH acted like he was
thinking we'd stay talking and/or "friendly" now that we'd
talked about the insurance situation and house, but I don't
want to do that, and told him so, referring him back to my
Plan B letter of months ago...

Just working today and feeling okay about things for the
moment. I know keeping the house up and ready to show is
going to be a pain, especially with having to do something
with the dog, but will try to do as well as I can since all
I do will help get a better price on the house, and all the
proceeds will go to me. Have a few errands to run later
although I hate getting out on a very cold day (was 8
this morning and to be 0 tonight !)

Will be a very busy December not only with the house up
for sale, but also made appointments for all my medical
visits (OB/GYN, dentist, eye Dr) while I still have my
insurance, will have three dress rehearsals and sing in
two concerts next week, have IC, got summoned for jury
duty, will have a "pre-op", my surgery" and a "post op"
appt with that, as well as Christmas, and my sister and
family coming to visit ! Sounds tiring already, but at
least it'll keep me busy and maybe less time to feel bad.

Slammed

Thanks for dropping by Slammed.

I'm leaving for Europe today for work, and won't see DS4 for a while. It's the very first time ever since he was born, to be away from him for more than 2 nights straight, and I'm sure I'm going to miss him a lot.

WH came by to pick up DS4. We were being civil, and he even asked for a bagle (I was feeding DS4 one). Then he said "Milk, it's so much cheaper to setlle ourselves", so I said "I agree, but I made a proposal last year and you were very pleased, even thanked me and said we could settle, but soon as you talked to your lawyer you came back and said it was not good enough. Your lawyers are knows to play dirty and suck up a lot of $$$ from their clients, and you are buying their 'theories". He denied. Anyway, now of course he wants more $$$. He is basically NOT going to honor anything he has promised, not only with me but with his own family. I told him "see, this is the thing with you. You never honor anything you promise!". Then he got mad and said "you always go around telling people I'm a liar. You told my family that too", so I told him "no, they actually CAME to me to tell me quite a bit of stories about you and THEY are the ones who now seem to understand YOU better". But of course in his mind I'm the evil one. He said "it's all about money, and you don't give a rat a$$ about me", I said "watch your language in front of our son".

In the mean time, DS4 looked shocked and sad. That broke my heart. I told him "I'm sorry sweetie, we just had a heated discussion. That's all. I'm sorry." He coulnd't really talk because of the shock.

Poor DS4. All he wants is his mommy and daddy, and yet he just witnessed his daddy and mommy yelling at each other. How sad is that. And I won't see him for a while!

The whole thing made me feel sad. I mean, we ARE enermies!! He promised that he would be there for me forever, and now he HATES me.

How can he say that I never cared about him??? It's him who has been acting as if he could care less about me for the past 2-3 years!

Anyway, it doesn't matter. He doesn't care. He TRULY believes it's me who is a problem. My finding his 'love letters' to other girls and getting upset at him is not a good enough reason to be mad or cold. Apparently no matter what he did behind my back, I was supposed to TRUST him completely. And because I took some actions to 'protect' myself, I was a cold person and did not care about him.

Milk

Slow down, and breath, and think about this a little bit.

He does this on purpose - and you fall for it.

I heard a saying once - Never get in a mud wrestling contest with pigs - because the pigs like it.

I'm not trying to make him out to be a pig, but think about that for a little bit.

How can he say that I never cared about him??? It's him who has been acting as if he could care less about me for the past 2-3 years!

You can't reason with someone who is unreasonable. (SS grins) so I recommend you get some stock answers and give them back to him instead of trying to reason with him.

1. Thanks for telling me.

2. Did you hear it's supposed to snow next week?

3. Your mom told me she likes baked potatoes. I couldn't remember that.

4. Hey, no problem. I'll consider it and get back to you.

5. Do you think the Bears will win the world series next year? (Yes, I did it on purpose.)

6. We're getting D'vd, and I don't want to talk about it any more. See ya.

7. Come back when you have something new to say, I've heard this stuff before.

8. How do you get kool aid stains out of carpet?

9. That's all in the past, what time do you want to bring DS back?

10. Hey look - it's super man flying past the window !!
Got ya - ha, ha.

I'm sure you can think of better ones than these, but memorize some, and use them often. I promise it helps.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Relax a little bit, laugh, realize what he is doing, and don't let him do it to you.

Enjoy your weekend, the alternative isn't nearly as much fun.
Oh Wait, you are leaving today. Well, try to relax on the flight. Read a good book, don't think so much about the problems, concentrate on your blessings. Pray.
Check in and tell us how it goes for you.

SS

Be slick like teflon. Let his anger slide off and when you can reverse babble it back. I think you did fine. Your child will pick up on this anyway. They are quite smart, our little ones. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Tell him he gave up his right when he gave up his family. His A s/b sooo important that he w/b willing to part with all his possessions to have the A. Or is he saying his posssessions are worth more than his family? Howz that for RB? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Have a safe trip and take care,
L.

Good Job Orchid - You're the master of reverse babble.

SS

SS, u make me blush. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Howa' been? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

L.

Hi Milk,

Congratulations on the new job - AND you get to go to Europe, too. Nice. I hope it is not all work and you are able to sight-see a bit. What country are you visiting, if I may ask?

I actually just received an email reply this week about a job I applied for in Europe. The hiring manager wanted to ask me some questions. I don't think it's going to work out, though. That's OK. It's nice at least that someone "out there" is actually giving my application consideration.

I did buy my townhouse. I am very happy with it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

As for dating.......no......not yet. I still don't feel ready, but I'm close... I think. I think fear is still holding me back. Right now I am thoroughly enjoying my freedom. It's nice to do things for myself. I'm gaining confidence. My fear is that, even though I know that there are wonderful men out there, I will only be drawn to men like my X. As a result, I stay away from all men -- like the plague. I probably just need to start dating and learn how to weed out the not-so-wonderful ones.

OK, enough about me. Hi SS! Was that OK for an update? I might post on my own thread. I have a situation at work that I think I need to talk about. Maybe I should create a new thread.

Milkshake, for the record, I think that you are doing really well. I think you've got the right attitude when you talk about not dwelling on the past and about staying positive. I still can't imagine what it would be like to have to see my ex all of the time. But you also mention that you don't have much feeling left for him, and I can only guess that the feelings will eventually go away entirely. Yes, it's sad, but it's probably for the best.

Hang in there. I'm glad you are not feeling so sick any more.

Thanks SS, Orchid, and SVB1. I'm back! I was in London for a few days. I couldn't check this site at all as I was in meetings pretty much all day long for those three days, and besides, they have this typical European 'open' floor plan where everyone can see everything on the computer and even when I got a few minutes to log in I did not feel comfortable logging into this site.

It was nice and warm (it rained a lot, but hey, it's London...), and I was SHOCKED to see how COLD it is here!!! Gee.... apparently it was -7 degree this morning.

It was a nice and productive trip. Unfortunately I did not have much time to do sight-seeing, but I was able to stay away from the madness & sadness of my drama, which was very relaxing. I thought I would miss DS4 so much that I would not be able to enjoy, but while I of course missed him a lot, I was able to enjoy my stay very much.

Now I am going to have to do several loads of laundry to get ready for my vacation tomorrow. My friend, her daughter, DS4 and I are going to Florida tomorrow. I know, it's a crazy schedule. I'm tired from the jet-lag and traveling, but at least I can spend some quality time with DS4 after being apart for a while.

I did miss WH while I was in London though. We went to Europe including U.K. six years ago, and my being there certainly brought back some memories. I can't believe things changed so much in these years, but our having DS4 definitely played a big role. After all, no matter how WH excuses himself, I think having our first child really changed our R and M. He loves DS4 but he was just not mature enough or mentally strong enough to have one who gets all of my attention, naturally, at the beginning.

I called Monday because when I called DS4's school, his teacher told me that he had not been dropped off. I called WH's apartment and he was working from home, keeping DS4. He said "yeah, I decided to work from home so that I can spend some time with DS4 - my boss is probably pi$$ed off (he worked from home on Friday as well), but I don't care, because I'm probably going to change my jobs. I'm tired of it".

Not again! Ever since he started working after college, he must have changed his jobs like 10 times! He did not like the 'stress' he was having at his previous company, so changed his jobs internally, but one year later he received a pink slip. Then I found this job for him last year. He started his current job 4/05, and now after a year and half, he is already considering of changing his jobs again. Actually, in March of this year, when he approached me to reconcile because he was having financial problems (which he still does), he was already telling me that he was thinking of changing jobs.

So for him, once things do not go well, whether it's his family or job, he just 'quit' and look for another one? But how many times does he have to do this? Why doesn't he think it might be HIM who has some issues, if he CONSTANTLY has problems at work and with his bosses??? He has an MBA, so he is not stupid. But he is lacking something. He is so impulsive and constantly looking for the instant happiness, which of course his career cannot provide (obviously it requires some efforts to be successful at work). So he wants to run away from his job that is NOT making him happy. He is now enjoying DS4, but when our son was a baby, it required more work than he could actually enjoy his time with the baby. So he wanted to run away. I demanded that he remains an equal partner, which meant I asked him to work around the house just like I did, which wasn't fun, so he wanted to escape.

He thought becoming spiritual was the key and joined a bible study but it lasted only a month. He liked this girl he met at the bible study but she was not interested in him, so he was broken heart and pi$$sed off that he did not get what he wanted, so he stopped attending church.

He was enjoying his expensive car for a while, but he must have gotten bored and now he is really into motorcycle. He upgraded it and now rides a bigger one. Before all of this, he said his passion was 'guns', but it lasted only a few months as well. He used to love cooking, but apparently he doesn't really cook anymore.

So what is he looking for? Even if he finds another woman who can ride the motorcycle with him (that is what he is seeking according to his 'profile' on the online dating service), would that really last? Would he always be there for DS4? Or is it another temporary 'passion' for him?

Really, if I was him, and I am constantly changing my jobs, I would be worried about myself. I honestly do not understand how his mind works to justify all of his odd and immature behaviors and believes he is the victim.

Sigh.....

OK, time for me to nap a bit and then I will go pick up my son! I can't wait!

Again, thank you all for your support! It's always nice to come back here to hear from you.

Milk

Hi Milk!!
You are probably too busy having fun and seeing the sights to come talk. That's OK, and it's good for you.
Have fun.

Hi S !!!!!!!!

It's good to hear from you.

I had a tall girl in my store a few months ago with your same hair color. I almost went up to her and asked her if she was from (where you live now.)


I actually just received an email reply this week about a job I applied for in Europe. The hiring manager wanted to ask me some questions. I don't think it's going to work out, though. That's OK. It's nice at least that someone "out there" is actually giving my application consideration.

So tell us what you are thinking - I thought you wanted to stay closer to home.

Is it your mom again?
He, He, You knew I would tease you.

I did buy my townhouse. I am very happy with it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

The twins wanted a pool. It was hard telling them you no longer have one. Oh well, it's winter anyway.

As for dating.......no......not yet. I still don't feel ready, but I'm close... I think. I think fear is still holding me back. Right now I am thoroughly enjoying my freedom. It's nice to do things for myself. I'm gaining confidence.

Hows the job?
Same one?

How are you spending your time?


My fear is that, even though I know that there are wonderful men out there, I will only be drawn to men like my X. As a result, I stay away from all men -- like the plague. I probably just need to start dating and learn how to weed out the not-so-wonderful ones.

Are there activities in your church that you can do with a group - so you don't have to be one on one with a guy?

It often helps you get back to being comfortable.

OK, enough about me. Hi SS! Was that OK for an update? I might post on my own thread. I have a situation at work that I think I need to talk about. Maybe I should create a new thread.


Heck no it wasn't enough.
Nothing about your mom.
Your brother.
The fish - if any are left.

What you are doing with your time - all we know is what you aren't doing. (I still feel sorry for the guys you are staying away from.) You really are worth knowing.

Milkshake, for the record, I think that you are doing really well. I think you've got the right attitude when you talk about not dwelling on the past and about staying positive. I still can't imagine what it would be like to have to see my ex all of the time. But you also mention that you don't have much feeling left for him, and I can only guess that the feelings will eventually go away entirely. Yes, it's sad, but it's probably for the best.

I agree - she is doing well. She is doing so well in Europe that she doesn't even check in (LOL)

I'll bring up your thread. Please catch us up.

I have taken a number of trips since you posted last.
How about you? Have you traveled?
Tell us all about it.

SS