Post deleted by Detached_Care

Orchid - are you thinking what I'm thinking - like R might be only about 20 years old?? This pointing out how SC is wrong about TM and then "there comes a time to walk away"??

this doesn't add up to be just a caring poster...

Post deleted by Detached_Care

Kayla, I am thinking and if I tell you all I'm thinking it would give away my MB stragety. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Keep your MB cap on and help out, ok?

Maybe we can help 2 sitches or id the real reason. It's been done before. Kinda like therapy, you want them to help themslves heal. What's that creed: Heal thy self? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Hugz,
L.

Ok Respectful, what I get is that you are posting at this time solely to SC but you are a married woman who doesn't want to share your story. But you have let us know that you realize your H and other WS (aka: Toolman) believe respect means t/d whatever regardless of who it hurts and not for any particular good reason. Is that a close summation? You give us very little to work on. But I'll bite.

1st of all....welcome to MB. Not sure what brought you to this site and to SC's thread in particular but time will tell and I'm a patient gal. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

You do realize that anyone who thinks they can do whatever to whoever is wrong. That is NOT respect. That is DISRESPECT to the hilt. So why even consider it as such? When people like that try to hide their bad acts behind a good word, then you know they are mixed up in their heads. Another word that gets used that way is: Love. There is real love (that endures, shares, cares and grows) and then there is the misinterpretation of love (used by the A particpants).

For a WS and OP to use the word love is totally out of context. Why? Because their R is not love it is lust at various levels. It tries to replacate love but it never can. Because the feelings created in the A did not orginate with the Author of love. The A is based on selfish destructive desires and it's author has no love in his spirit. He has a name but that's a whole 'nuther discussion. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Have we cleared up that point? How else can we help you?

L.

Post deleted by Detached_Care

Orchid: Huh? Do you use this same POV with murders? A man who abandons his family to have an A is guilty in the eyes of the law and God (don't want to go religious with this post, just making a statement).

I certainly do not understand your logic here. I do know that WS like to throw babble that the BS is always right and the WS is always wrong. Is that what u r saying? Cause that is NOT what I said in my prior post.


Orchid: Ok....so where are you going with this statement?


Orchid: So who should do the walking and why?


Orchid: You certainly are speculating and now you've got me wondering....why? Your responses seem very much like...... well you know....r u?

L.

Stonecold-
Good luck with the Harley meeting, although Im not really understanding WHY you felt you needed it. You want a divorce. You have definately earned your right to have one! Tool knew the boundaries you had, what the consequences of his actions would be when he broke them, and now its time to pay the piper.

You do not need permission or Tool's help in getting a divorce. If he fights, it just costs him more.

Im the BW of a serial adulterer who I can now proudly say worked a ****** of a lot on himself the past three years. Im proud to call him my husband today. I also had depression during a lot of our marriage, I just didn't know it. I've also worked really hard on my own faults and issues as well. Im very happy today. We celebrated our youngest son's 1 year birthday June 30th. Im really glad I found MB before we started counseling together. I know that when both spouses work together, it can be succesful.

All that being said-- if he did it again, and I hold no illusion that it couldn't happen, that's it, its over. The disrespect, the pain, the chaos, the lack of protection... I know what I want and it wouldnt involve dealing with that again.

I'm on pain meds so I apologize if this is rambling. I just want to tell you to stay strong and don't be afraid to follow through. Every single one of us knows just how much we can (or are willing) to take. I know I have done everything I can do to build a better marriage, so if my FWH CHOOSES to 'date'/screw around I'm outta here.

I caught my FWH up on your sitch, including the fogtalk from your WH, and my husband's advice to you:: "Get the ****** out."

Again, good luck. I will be rooting for you and thinking of you.

Good luck. I know how you feel stonecold...I also sought last minute, 11th hour advice from my minister and ss teachers about my filing...asked their opinions. Their optinions? Two wonderful sixty five year old sunday school teachers (ours since he and I had married)who taught married couples for over 25 years and my minister? They both said to divorce him. That he was unrepentant and was damaging. I knew that was my course then.

Asking the harleys may give some further insight as well. You're looking for backup showing you did the right thing/doing the right thing. And that is OK! That's good.

You're not doing this rash...you made it thru two terrible rounds of adultery and this time you're not buying any more.

And to the respectful person...RESPECTFUL? HOW IN THE ****** IS THE ADVICE YOU'RE DISHING OUT RESPECTFUL TO A BS? We have to learn how to respect OUR SELVES when faced with dealing with a venemous cake eating lying and stealing WS. WS can do everything from stealing family monies (for either funding an affair, going on costly trips, trinkets, and lies with the OP and their secret life), spreading STD's and placing the very lives of their H or W in jeopardy, damaging the children forever with their affairs, and break a holy vow ORDAINED BY GOD...

how is standing up for yourself being disprespectful? How is CALLING IT LIKE IT IS DISRESPECTFUL?

I think you need to GET SOME DARN RESPECT FOR YOURSELF AND GROW UP. Pollyanna thinking is well....so last century and baby grow up and get a spine ok? Maybe you also think it's disrespectful for women to ask for the right to vote or for equal rights huh? You're a bit DOOR-MAT-ISH...actually alot DOOR=MAT-ISH.

SC, I would still talk to Steve Harley either way, since you're able, and he will have many helpful things to say.

If you totally want a divorce and are completely closed off to the idea of reconciliation, then move fearlessly in that direction.

If however, you still have some doubt as to whether you want to give up, and wonder whether your marriage might still be salvageable, your answer is a swift, hard, unbroken Plan B.

Plan B him till he is on his knees.

I could be wrong, but I have the feeling you are still questioning whether to try one more time. If I'm wrong, that's cool and I can handle it, <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />, and you still have my vote of confidence, but if I'm right, and you're not sure, you have some very good, very powerful options left.

And you could not ask for a better person than Orchid to bring you through a maze of false recoveries into a true one.

Are you familiar with the story of Job? Ever heard the phrase "Job's comforters"? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> I would be delighted to elaborate if you haven't......

I would very much wonder why someone would come out of the blue and start urging you to walk away, and presenting you with the opinion that it is the only choice that will leave your dignity intact.

If said someone is just who they say they are, and not someone else, hopefully they will at least see from our responses to you, that they are not out of options, either.

You are a wonderful, strong woman, and I know you will come through this with you intact, regardless of the details of the story's end.

Post deleted by Detached_Care

Respectful,

U c/b a friend of SC or the OW herself. Not sure. You don't want to share your reason for being here but seem t/b particularly internested in Toolman and SC.

Regardless of your reason and if you have any inkling of what SC needs to go through even if it should end in a D, SC needs to come to that point in her time. Not in Toolman's timeframe. WS's are warped and often push the BS t/d the WS' dirty work.

So right now your words to help s/b to help SC remain strong. Finish her plan A so that when SC's mind and heart are in sync, she can do what she feels is best for her and her family. Where Toolman's state of mind or lack there of is at that time is his issue. At that time SC will be ready to take the appropriate steps. To do so premarturely c/b a setback for SC.

Now how what do you have to say, r u gonna help SC or r u a supporter of Toolman?

Btw, you don't share your story yet you are having similar issues with your H? Many of us think we would have known how to handle these types of sitches when we saw others going through them but we didn't realize all that was involved (even within ourselves) until we did have 1st hand experience. That I can speak from experience.

L.

SC,

Hugz my dear to you and your family. For now, concentrate on keeping you and your family on it's feet. There's a stranger in your home who is not being nice. DISRESPECTFUL to say the least.

Work on getting your mind and heart in sync. Toolman used to read here so he knows my speech. Yet it will still blow him away when U R ready.

Watch his words now and if he speaks about what I wrote, you will know. It won't weaken you..... you will find it will strengthen you. If he doesn't speak......then you will be strengthened. Why? Because u r working on you.

The WS losing strength when he loses control. That's the key and there's NOTHING they can do to rip out your spirit. They can try stupid means to hurt you and your family but your personal resolve is not his to take.

That is how others and myself have survived. Look the WS square in the eye.....they can't look back for long if at all. That's another tool giving away the gateway to their WS persona.

All the best,
L.

SC, I would just like to also point out that if those of us in recovered/recovering marriages had chosen to just accept that the WS mindset was how things were, and given up hope on what we thought should be, we would not be in recovered/recovering marriages.

A necessary part of reaching recovery, for the many who do, is holding on to the belief that the WS will regain their senses, and once again become the good person they used to be.

It is not wrong of you to realize that the WS is wrong for thinking, feeling, and acting as they do. It is useless to try and convince them of this, but if you believe it in yourself, it shows that your moral compass is still pointing the right direction.

I do not say this to be confrontational, or to try and persuade you to keep trying if you don't want to. I only wish to present an alternate POV.

"Judge not, that ye be not judged," does not mean we no longer recognize right from wrong. Sin is sin. But we can call sin by its right name without feeling as if we are somehow superior to the person with the sin, or that we are assured of a place in heaven while that evil sinner is gonna burn.

Do you see the difference? The Bible says, "By their fruits ye shall know them." One type of judgment weighs a person's actions against a measure of right and wrong. Another type of judgment, one that is the right only of God, judges a person's value and eternal destiny.

Your WS is wrong. What he thinks, feels, and does is wrong. But I will not try to say whether, in God's eyes, he is greater or less than any other human. I will not say what the future holds for him in eternity, though I would predict plenty of trouble in his earthly life if he does not repent.

Only you can decide how you want to go about this, but there are enough success stories on here that you know Respectful's story is not the only possible ending for adultery.

Wow. Thank you for all the great advice, folks. I was out of town Saturday, visiting my mom with DD9, so that's why I haven't posted. It will probably take me a few posts to respond to everyone, but here is my first, kind of overall, post.

It has been almost 2 weeks since Dday#2. Toolman keeps hoping that I will soften my opinion with time. So far, this has not taken place. I believe I have reached a point of no-return in the M. Here are my reasons:

#1 I categorically DO NOT want to live with someone who has such a low opinion of me. Anyone who could turn me into DCF b/c he thought I'd harm my children really has no understanding of who I am. Anyone who thinks I already AM harming my children is nutz.

#2 Even if I could get past #1, which will NEVER happen, I'd have to get past the fact that my husband apparently prefers the company of women half his (and my) age. Sorry, but any way you cut it, that's just plain SICK.

#3 Even if I could get past #1 and #2, which will NEVER, EVER happen, I would demand certain lifestyle changes that Toolman would NEVER EVER agree to. First, he would have to completely open up his phone, email, voicemail and any other personal files for inspection. I would NEVER trust him again, so this would have to be a lifetime of being scrutinized. Tool views scrutiny as abuse, plain and simple. He should not have to live with abuse.

Secondly, I would demand that Toolman NEVER EVER speak to his worthless brother again. This is the person who has systematically poisoned Tool against me, and served to facilitate the rekindled affair, and was fully knowledgeable of the original affair. He is public enemy #1, and I never plan to speak to him again. Tool would never agree to these terms.

#4 Most importantly, I have lost every shred of positive emotion regarding Toolman. I have no respect for him as a husband, a father, and even a provider. I would not ever agree to depositing one stinking penny into his love bank. In fact, I hope his bank burns to the ground. (With worthless BIL inside.)

There is NO hope that I would ever be happy in this M ever again. The only reason I wanted to talk to the Harley's is b/c our current MC is so admant that we don't D. She claims my children will be permanently ruined from the process. So there it is...plain and simple guilt. I don't want to be the one to hurt my kids (although toolman apparently thinks I'm a constant threat). I'm hoping the Harley's will hear our story and, given their experience with so many marriages, will agree that the damage is irreparable. Sometimes, it really is beyond repair.

To Respectful:

This is from DivorceBusting:
"The Walkaway Wife Syndrome

SC: Yes. This is me. I am a wife, and I am walking away. The only difference is that my H is not capable of making the changes neccessary for me to be anything but miserable in our Marriage. Trust me. I am certain of this.

Secondly, I DO NOT still have a heart. I can't stand the sight of him, yet I endure his presence for the sake of the children. While I know this is not possible because of the children, I would be happy if I never saw him again for the rest of my life. He is a negative, toxic influence in my life.

From respectful:
This is her story. I don't want to share mine. I just ask her to consider what all the MC has done. Years from now, will she look back and see that all her effort was a waste of time and breath? There comes a time to walk away.

SC: Lots of truth. MC has done nothing. The effort was a waste of time. There IS a time to walk away.....NOW.

Orchid, thank you and kaylandy for your insight. I suspect that "respectful" is someone who knows us...and there are a few candidates. I doubt the 20 year old would take a break from scooping icecream to post.

Regardless, it is all very suspicious. I appreciate you trying to clear up the true meaning of 20 year old, 44 year old, affair love, but I think we're wasting our breath. To tell you the truth, he can keep her, just stop delaying the D process.

I've decided that I'm going to remain silent on the current threads about whether we should be helping affair marriages as well as affair marriage threads. I certainly have my own opinion, but I want all the threads to drop off the first page, so we can get back to helping the folks with real problems, rather than in-fighting.


Ok, update on my story...I have a call with S. Harley in about an hour. Toolman will also be in attendance. I will present my miserable situation, and see what he has to say.

Let me also say it saddens me to see so many good people at war over the same type of person who has brought so much pain into our lives already (the OP). Hopefully, in time, folks will agree to simply disagree.

Hey SC....flare prayer sent up for PEACE in your life.

AML,
Kimmy