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Joined: Jan 2001
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What a relief! I'm not a bad speller - I'm a closet Hawaiian.

Neak <--------- not a haole

(Congrations to me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />)

Neak....it gets quite HOT 'n sticky in the da' closet. Now what kinda foods can we send to coax u out? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

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Hi everyone, I've been lurking, but haven't posted anything lately. I feel like a loser for not taking more action in ending this marriage.

After all, I drew my boundaries, didn't I? I said no more chances, didn't I? Why haven't I filed for D?

Yes, life would be he!! for me and the kids in many ways, especially financially. Yes, we'd probably have to sell the house and whatever investments we can, but so what? Doesn't it mean anything that I said I'd leave if there was another affair?

I don't get it.

My friends and family don't get it, either. I'm not returning phone calls, and avoiding my family, b/c I don't want to explain why there isn't a filing for D yet.

I need to show some spine and just do it, but I'm weak. I keep saying my kids will be heartbroken if we D, so I keep stalling.

Yes, Toolman has had a few sessions with S. Harley, and yes, he's had a few more with our regular MC. Yes, he's been reading yet another book, **edit**. So that counts as some kind of ~~~effort~~~.

~~~~shrug~~~~

It's not having ANY affect on me. I feel no good feelings, and I am ambivalent or angry or sad all the time. I don't sleep. I'm miserable.

The things that broke down in our marriage will always be there...they will not change.
WH will ALWAYS think I'm blowing all his money (snort!).
WH will ALWAYS think I'm a bi-polar nut from whom he needs to protect his children
WH will ALWAYS feel nothing but disgust about me physically, since he's now more comfortable having sex with 20 year olds who ADORE him.

What is there to work on? I do not understand my weakness in not getting out. My friends must look at me like a battered wife who keeps going back to the abuser. Someday, I hope to report that I have grown a backbone. Someday soon, I hope.

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love bank is in the [color:"red"]red[/color]

hence the apathy

Pep

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Apathy is the lack of emotion, motivation, or enthusiasm. Apathy is a psychological term for a state of indifference — where an individual is unresponsive or "indifferent" to aspects of emotional, social, or physical life. Clinical apathy is considered to be at an elevated level, while a moderate level might be considered depression, and an extreme level could be diagnosed as a dissociative disorder. The physical aspect of apathy associated with physical deterioration, muscle loss, and lack of energy is called lethargy — which has many pathological causes as well.

Apathy can be object-specific — toward a person, activity or environment. It is a common reaction to stress where it manifests as "learned helplessness" and is commonly associated with depression. It can also reflect a non-pathological lack of interest in things one does not consider important.

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Hi All.
Nothing much to update.
It's my birthday this weekend.
42 years old.
This is NOT where I hoped to be when I hit this age.
I need to do something, but I don't know what that something is.

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I need to do something, but I don't know what that something is.

self pampering spa-beauty day

and

lunch-movie-drinks with dear friends who understand

laugh as much as possible, it's good for you & makes you pretty

Pep

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Happy birthday.. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Wishing only something for you, that would make you feel better.

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Happy Birthday.

I hope when your birthday rolls around next year, that you're in a much better place.

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Happy birthday, I agree with Pep, spa day is in order.
dc

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Thanks for kind words. Unfortunately, nothing brings me joy anymore. Spa trip would just remind me that I used to be happy, causing more unhappiness. Can't even get thru the grocery store without crying anymore. Life totally sucks. Harley keeps telling toolman that things are gonna get better, but I've never been this sad in my life. I am dead inside. I feel completely trapped and hopeless.

I felt better a month ago when I just caught toolman in his new affair. I KNEW I had what I needed to finally start my life over. Now, with Harley saying, "You just have to wait, and it will get better," I feel totally trapped. I'm so sick of this, I just don't care about anything anymore. Each day, I slip a little lower. Worst part is, if I can't snap out, I'm sure toolman will use my mood as a reason to take my kids away from me and get me committed. I just can't do anything to feel any better. Nothing works anymore. I don't even remember what it felt like to be happy.
Good thing is, I guess, if toolman is right, and I AM bipolar, I should have an upswing coming, right? Bring it on.

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bipolars often respond "like magic" to mood-stabilizers

ask your Doc

Pep

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PS

you're NOT bipolar

you are sad

and

exhausted

Pep

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Are YOU talking to Harley? If not, how do you even know that TM is telling you the truth? What about you and your happiness?

Nothing makes a person feel depressed as much as helplessness. No wonder you feel so awful. You've got to get your fighting spirit back. How about doing just one small thing at a time to start getting some control back. As you get control, you'll start feeling better. And even tiny changes help, because you see some movement and some hope.

Just because things are this way today doesn't mean that they can't change. You don't have to take a certain course because Steve Harley or anyone else says you should. Have you talked to him and told him your side of the story and how TM has been breaking you down for years and how irrational he is about your mental state? Does Harley know how devious and manipulative TM is?

I have to get in bed, since it's past 2AM my time, but I'll check in tomorrow. Please post and let us know how you're doing. You're very bright and you're much stronger than you feel right now. You just need to get your bearings again. You've been through a lot the last few years. You'll find your way, regardless of all this turmoil.

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I suppose I was invited to the last harley session, which I think was this past thursday. I didn't attend. I have given up. The only thing I promised harley in the last session that I would "protect toolman from myself" which I guess means no angry outbursts, etc. I've done that. I've done that by killing all emotions, both good and bad. No one would believe what I've swallowed emotionally, for the sake of the kids. I hope it turns out better for them than it does for me. Thanks, anyway, for asking.

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<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

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Hi stonecold -

I just wanted to thank you for posting - I'm home sick in bed and have just spent some time reading through your entire thread - I kept reading because in a lot of ways, your story is similar to mine. Events are similar, and feelings are similar. And I'm pretty much where you are at right now, too - wondering where to go from here....

I can relate to a lot of what you posted. My sitch is similar - nearly 2 years sleeping apart now, H's affair has ended (I think) - I don't really care anymore - kids are doing reasonably well....

Just wanted to say you are not alone....

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So what is your plan? Do you intend to live like this until your children are grown?

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Hi believer - I'm not sure if the question is for me or for stonecold, but since we seem to be in a similar sitch, I'll try to answer for me....

The answer is that I'm not sure. I started my own thread again - "calling still seeking" - and I'm thinking it's time for me to go get some counselling again. There's stuff I need to talk over with a priest to sort out some theological ideas - like my H seems to believe he is forgiven when he has never apologized to me...and I also feel I am ready to start dealing with emotional damage done to me by his affairs. For the past two years, I have had my back to the wall working hard at getting my boys through the hurdles they had to go through in terms of changing schools, exams, etc. I know that the received wisdom is that living in a "bad" marriage is bad for the kids. I don't deny that. But in my case, I felt the alternative would be worse for them. My kids have now gone through all the hurdles they had to go through and had both parents support to do that, without the trauma of their parents separating to deal with at the same time. I felt separating would potentially have ruined their lives, so staying together, although painful, was the better option for them.

I had stuff happen, explained on my thread, that made separation or divorce not a desirable step to take at the time I found out about H's affair. Now 2 years have gone by - during that time, I have started an MA with a view towards being able to get a better job in future. At the moment, I would not be able to support myself if I separated, and financially, life would be extremely difficult. I live in the UK, and I am American - that makes me a foreigner here and less likely to be hired if there is an English person available for the same job. The job I have, although not paid well, works out well for me in terms of hours (fits well with kids school schedule), my boss is extremely supportive of me both emotionally and professionally, and co-ordinates well with my MA program. So at the moment, I don't want to change jobs, although I would consider it in the future when I get better qualified. I tried to take my focus off my H and put my focus on doing something positive for me. I basically abandoned him emotionally, cut him out of my life. He chose to do what he did, and what he did to me, I found hard to forgive, and I am not convinced it wouldn't happen again. If he were to take the steps he needed to take to start to reconcile, I might be willing listen to him. I will say that I would like to be able to forgive him. But I've lost confidence in him and hope for any kind of a happy emotional life with him in the future.

I've had health problems this year, and I have been able to count on my H to take care of kids when I have been sick. That's a plus to living together even if our marriage is on the rocks. I'm sick today with the flu, and H has taken care of everything. I appreciate that, and I let him know. H is a difficult person, but has his good points. My strategy with H is to say thank you to him for all the things he does well, to treat him kindly and with respect, but to walk away if he is disrespectful, and to ask that he treat me with respect. For example, he interrupts me all the time, just talks over me. It's a bad habit and he doesn't make any effort to change. I stop and say "can I finish?", then I go back and repeat my whole sentence, which points out to him that he is being rude and forces him to allow me to finish a normal sentence. This is very wearing, and he doesn't like it - it makes him mad. But I used to get frightened and upset and felt very anxious about making him mad. Now I don't care if he gets mad. He gets mad when I demand respect. That's his problem. H has serious issues and this small thing is representative of them...it makes him mad to have his steamroller behaviour stopped in its tracks. He thinks I am the one with the problem, because I persist in making an issue out of it. He prefers to think I am the one with the problem. He doesn't recognize that his own behaviour is rude. He doesn't seem to have the capacity for self-reflection. He resists any attempt to put his own behaviour under scrutiny. But he is better behaved if I persist. He is like spoiled child who has been brought up without anyone making him have respect for other people. On the other hand, he is very charming, which is why I fell for him in the first place - his punishing behaviour only started after we were married.

So - my plan is to get my MA. And I've tried to keep a stable household for the sake of my kids. I live in an emotional vacuum, though - and I get very depressed at the lack of affection in my life. It's not the way I want to live forever. I have made it clear to him that despite the fact we are sleeping apart, an "open marriage" is not an option. I am not allowing myself to contemplate having an affair,although I long for affection. I have asked H what his plan is, where he sees himself in 5 years time and he says he doesn't really know - he wants to be doing the same, work he's doing now.

So - he is a WS who abandoned his marriage, but not the house, and is fulfilling his role as father and provider as best he can, without giving his wife anything she needs. Basically it sucks. I also gave up on him and am trying to focus on my own personal goals instead of investing all my energy into him. I got tired of being used. I guess you could say I'm still letting him use me - he's living here and hasn't had to pay the price of his infidelity. I'm allowing him to fence-sit. Except that he is the one who is losing. I think his affair with OW3 failed, and he has lost his self-respect. He has lost the respect of a lot of his friends and his family, which he hasn't dealt with yet. He is trying to redeem himself by working hard.

He has made some overtures that indicate he still wants his marriage - but since I still see his anger and his blaming, and he has made no moves to open up his life, confess, get counselling, or win back my trust, I know he isn't yet serious.

I'm torn between Harley's approach and what the implications are for my kids. My feeling is that Harley's approach would have had a chance to save our marriage - but the impact of separation on our kids would have been disastrous. So because I didn't go to plan B, our marriage died. Living together like this, every day, has allowed our marriage to die. We are like two of those people in arranged marriages - we respect each other but don't feel attraction for each other. I lost my admiration for him, and for me, that seemed to put the nail in the coffin - I found out I have to admire a man in order to be able to love him.

I'm back to reading Harley - his articles on sexual aversion apply to me - if I don't have any emotional feelings for him, I don't desire him. After what I've been through I don't want him to touch me - but I remember what it was like to love him, and I remember all the times I loved him touching me...I don't drink - my Dad is an alcoholic - but I feel like I know why people drink - not just to block out the bad memories, but the good ones...to block out the memories of the feelings of love and hope and dedication they once had. Those memories hurt even more than the bad ones.

So basically, I'm lonely....kinda thinking this can't go on forever, and I'm trying to come up with a plan. I'm aware that I don't really have a plan and that's what I need to do...come up with one.

My boys are 14 1/2 and 11 1/2, BTW - OS is now settled into his secondary school - has 4 more years, YS is making the transfer to secondary school in Sept - both are doing well. Both are aware that Daddy had an affair and that's why we are sleeping apart. I told them because I felt they needed some answers. I haven't told H that I told them. They were upset, but our R is now better. I told them their Dad and I couldn't afford to live apart, that if we separated, he would hardly ever be able to see them because he would have to move out of our town and he works 6-7 days a week, that I couldn't mend our marriage alone, and Daddy is convinced he doesn't love me anymore - that's just the way it is. I feel H has to take the consequences of his actions. If he loses their respect, that's his own fault. He should have thought of that before he did what he did. Someday it might come out that they know what he did - when/if it does, I will deal with it as best I can. OS was remarkably mature about it - he said it came as "no surprise" (!) and he said he thought if you kept secrets, you would always be found out in the end. YS said "but everyone tells lies" - OS countered "NO! That's exactly why you should NOT tell lies, because if you tell small lies, you think you can get away with bigger and bigger lies, and eventually it becomes a way of life!" I was very proud of OS - he really surprised me with his perceptions - ever since, he has talked to me about stuff eh thinks - he's growing up and he knows he can trust me, which is the most important thing to me. Same for YS.

I have 5 years to go before the boys are grown. the way I see it, though - then they go to university. Why do people have kids if they think they can just divorce when it doesn't work out? You find out when you start trying to do it, that there is always some hurdle your kids have to get over - and that goes on all their life....my H married because he loved me and wanted kids....to my mind he's a sick person because he betrayed everything he believed in to satisfy his own selfish compulsions, thinking he could get away with it. I know he isn't unique...

Me - I'm dying inside. Need a man to love me. I had a lot to offer and have a lot to offer, but I've changed. My next job is to try to restore my soul.

So that's the short answer... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

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<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

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F4L,

I know this is going to sound harsh, but you have exactly the marriage that you want, why are you complaining. Yes, your H had an affair, and yes he is difficult, but he is not getting away with what he did. You ARE making him pay everyday you withhold from him, decide to not engage him, talk about him behind his back to YOURS and HIS boys.

If you want something different and perhaps better, why not go for it, rather than stew in your own juices? If this site offers anything it offers a path BACK, but you need to be willing to walk it, and if you are not then you really have nothing to complain about, you are using his money, and you are avoiding moving, and getting a better paying job.

Seriously, why are you doing this to yourself?

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

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