Ok, This is the latest IM exchange with my former WW. I need honest opinions, even if you feel I'm humbling myself too much.

Here's the exchange:

Kristy says:
u called
ray says:
yes. I left messages asking to have the kids call.
ray says:
Is Amanda still up?
Kristy says:
she went to bed early because she didn't nap today
ray says:
Do you have your vonage setup yet? It only takes a few minutes and it would allow me to call them during the day.
ray says:
I really would like it if she called me everyday when I don't see her. If I don't get to see them, please let me talk to them.
ray says:
Please get your vonage setup. It really only takes a few minutes. I really miss being able to talk to her during the day.
Kristy says:
i've been pretty busy ray, i will get it set up soon
ray says:
You had this whole past weekend.
ray says:
It only takes a few minutes.
Kristy says:
ray don't hassle me about how quickly I get MY phone set up
ray says:
When it keeps me from talking to the kids, yes, it bothers me.
ray says:
You ignore my calls all the time.
ray says:
I'm at the mercy of your cell phone and when you choose to take my calls.
ray says:
You ignore my calls 90% of the time. I called very early tonight asking you to make sure she called before bed.
ray says:
It was around 5:45PM
ray says:
I didn't have this problem when they were at your parents and it means a lot to me when I can't talk to them every day. I would extend this courtesy to you.
Kristy says:
ray, i have a life going on here too, she may not call you EVERY day, i can't promise that...sometimes days may go by where it doesn't happen each and every day
Kristy says:
now...
ray says:
Yes, but you've been putting off setting up your phone when it only takes a few minutes to get it done.
ray says:
It would allow me to call them during the day so I at least have the chance to talk to them at least once during the day.
Kristy says:
if you want to see the kids this weekend that is fine, since you won't be here next weekend, but we need to work out as far as visitation being every other weekend, not every weekend
ray says:
If that is what you want to do, then I should be allowed to see them during the weeks when I won't have them on the weekend.
ray says:
This would allow me to see them every week and it is a compromise form what you want.
ray says:
I don't want it to be where I only see them every other weekend.
ray says:
Have you considered the option of all of us getting together once a week?
ray says:
It's not like we're dating anyone and it would allow the kids to see us together every so often.
Kristy says:
we need to work on dividing holidays, but from what i've found out, other than that, a typical suggested schedule for their age as far as daily-wise is every other weekend and one evening (after work until bringing them home for bed) a week
ray says:
We could set it up where we have dinner at my place one week, yours the next.
Kristy says:
no, their time with you will be with you, not with me there too
ray says:
why is that a problem. We're their parents and the time will come when we will do things together such as sports, plays, etc.
ray says:
They could see their parents in a dinner setting once a week.
ray says:
Like I said, it's not like either one of us is dating anyone for it to be a problem.
Kristy says:
ray, i don't want to have dinner with you once a week
ray says:
It would be good for them, too.
ray says:
It's not with me, it's with them
Kristy says:
and you
ray says:
so?
Kristy says:
i don't want that ray....
ray says:
do you hate me that much?
Kristy says:
oh will you stop
Kristy says:
god ray
ray says:
so why can't we put aside our problems, once a week, and have dinner as a family?
Kristy says:
because we aren't THAT kind of family now
Kristy says:
we are both parents to the kids, but not together parenting
ray says:
Kristy, you're not my enemy. We're parents of these children and like it or not, we do have to parent them together.
Kristy says:
your time with your kids needs to be focused on them, not having me there too
ray says:
We will have to make decisions regarding their school, care, etc.
ray says:
Wouldn't that allow us to build a friendship? Do it for them?
ray says:
It is not good for the kids to have a situation where the parents can't stand each other and are hostile around each other. Trust me, it sucks.
ray says:
To this day it is nice to have my parents be together, even though they aren't "together"
ray says:
For them it is something we should work towards.
ray says:
So what happened to the idea of letting me have them at least one night on the weekends?
ray says:
Are you getting me a formal agreement?
Kristy says:
I got tired of trying to be nice and still dealing with how nasty you could be, it wasn't appreciated when I did things like that for you, you started getting nasty about how much and when you wanted to see them and started getting nasty with me after a couple nights ago when you were crying and i said i didn't want to be with you and there wasn't a chance, then the claws really came out, tired of
Kristy says:
trying to be nice and getting that from you still
ray says:
Kristy, letting me see the kids isn't being "nice". I have asked you to let me see them at least once or twice during the week for dinner or to at least for a few minutes a day on my way home from work. You were saying no to that.
ray says:
And it really hurts when I can't even call them.
ray says:
So, yes, I was getting upset about that.
Kristy says:
yes ray, because you have tried to make yourself TOO much of a presence here and don't understand that i don't want to have to deal with you EVERY day now
ray says:
I have continued to reach out to you to let you know that we can do things with the kids together once in a while. I've invited you to come with us to feed the ducks, I've sent you videos of their time here.
ray says:
No, I don't want to deal with YOU every day. I want to deal with them. At a minimum a phone call.
ray says:
I saw them more and dealt with them more when you were 40 minutes away.
ray says:
I still think it is important for us to do things together in front of them once in a while. That's why I suggested having dinner at each other's houses once a week.
ray says:
If you don't want to deal with me, then just make sure Amanda calls me before bed every night.
Kristy says:
ray that is because we were not working and i had plenty of time with them, i value my alone time with them too you know, and i don't get much of it while working...and yes, you have to deal with me every time you deal with them as far as coming over, and i don't want that happening all the time, you are a DAILY presence i deal with, even through my myspace email
Kristy says:
i can't promise every night ray
ray says:
I still don't understand why you have made me into such an enemy. When you've been friendly to me, I've been friendly back. Things were fine when I dropped them off and sat down and had a donut with you.
ray says:
Well, as much as possible.
ray says:
I send you messages on myspace because I know you'll get the messages that way. And, yes, I felt a need to respond to you saying I was boring when I had all these things planned for us if we started seeing each other again.
Kristy says:
right now i just want our interaction to be to exchange the kids and arrangements with them and that be it
Kristy says:
and why do you feel the need to write me there so much
ray says:
Because that's the only way you get messages.
ray says:
When I've written you lately it was about my lawyer, about me being "boring", and to ask if I would get the kids this weekend.
Kristy says:
and why call me only a couple days ago once again dealing with things on a more personal level, asking about hope for us, crying over stuff, when i've asked you to stop and told you all that stuff before
ray says:
As the kids get older and they get into school, we're going to have to interact with them about their school, teachers, vaccines, etc.
ray says:
Because I wanted to see if there was any part of you that felt that we should try to save our family. Because I come home every day to an empty house and miss the sounds of my kids. Because I miss the best friend I had in my life for 7 years.
ray says:
Because I feel you will not find what you're looking for online.
ray says:
Because no man will be better for these kids than me.
ray says:
Because I am and was willing to forgive and put the past behind and try to make it work to give our kids a two parent home.
Kristy says:
who says i'm looking online...yes, i meet people and have met people from online, but have made mostly friends, and enjoyed going out on some dates, but online is not the only place i meet people
ray says:
Kristy, let's be realistic. If some guy came along that you were really attracted to, you would try to have something with him. Otherwise, you wouldn't say you're on there for serious relationships and you wouldn't leave comments to guys such as "I don't normally leave 'you're hot
ray says:
' comments, but nice, very, very nice"
ray says:
Or, "I wouldn't kick you out of the bed"
ray says:
etc
ray says:
Treat me like an angel and I'll be your devil
ray says:
not exactly comments for "friends".
Kristy says:
ray there is nothing wrong with leaving compliments, flirtatious remarks, whatever, nothing wrong with that...
ray says:
For me, it's about the kids. They would be best off in a two parent home and I was willing to work on our problems.
Kristy says:
what is wrong is you checking up on all my friend's webpages to check out all my activity, who i'm talking to, what i'm saying
ray says:
I was willing to address the issues you had problems with and to work.
Kristy says:
and yes, one of the things listed i am open for is a serious relationship, not looking for it, but one day it may happen down the road, so yes, that option is there, nothing wrong with it
ray says:
kristy, you're not some woman I just met 6 months ago. You were my wife, the mother of my kids. Yes, I was going to go through withdrawl from losing you. That meant curiosity about what you were doing and if you were going to go out with someone.
ray says:
You put that on there right after our divorce. Yet told me there was hope. It contradicted what you were telling me and made me feel like crap.
ray says:
I'm sorry, Kristy, but I feel that our family and what we had is infinitely better than trying to get someone else to accept and put up with our kids.
Kristy says:
i never told you to sit around and wait since there was hope, i said one day there very well could be a chance in the future, but you have said and done a lot since then that has changed my opinion on things
ray says:
To give them a home where the two people that loved them most in the world worked together to work out their problems and have a loving marriage.
ray says:
Yet you haven't done one single thing since our divorce to show me an ounce of hope. Not a coffee, not a date. Nothing. Of course this would upset me. I cry every single day over losing our family.
ray says:
How can I show niceness, compassion, love, if I'm not given the chance to?
ray says:
Yet I'm supposed to put aside what I feel as I watch you go out with other men, make out with them in parking lots, and I'm sure by now other things have happened. This is very upsetting to someone that loved you very much and wanted to spend the rest of his life with you and be a good father.
ray says:
Of course there's going to be a reaction to that. Belive me, I wish I could have flipped a switch and turned off my feelings and not felt anything as you did these things.
Kristy says:
ray, i kissed a guy in the parking lot before leaving...not exactly making out
Kristy says:
which you wouldn't have even seen if you wouldn't have been watching me from inside the door!
ray says:
You talk about my actions but have never addressed yours. You betrayed me in a horrible and painful way, yet I was willing to set that aside to save our marriage.
ray says:
Kristy, you knew that the mall was one of the only places I could take the kids when I didn't have a place. Part of me thinks you purposely showed up there that day, considering that's where I always took the kids.
ray says:
Again, you're not some woman I just met. Of course I'd be curious.
ray says:
You could have just as easily suggested to him that you guys go somewhere else considering I was there with the kids.
ray says:
Not exactly nice to rub my face in it.
ray says:
So I don't understand, how exactly was there hope if we never got together and did things to rebuild our relationship, even to the point of friendship.
ray says:
?
ray says:
Not even a coffee. A baby step.
Kristy says:
ray, grow up, i didn't go there knowing you would be there that day, if anything i avoid where you will be, and once i saw you there, we did leave...and it's not rubbing your face in it when you are the one who followed over to the door and watched me in the parking lot to see what i was doing, i was out there like 5-10 min before we even kissed goodbye that day and you stood there and watched,
Kristy says:
that isnt my fault you saw
ray says:
Hard to maintain hope when you see your ex w making out with other men and leaving them suggestive comments and wishing them Happy Father's day when I barely get a 'hi'.
Kristy says:
and hope was blown to pieces with things you said and did afterward, sides of you i saw that totally turned every feeling i ever had of possibility into nothing
ray says:
That hurt a lot.
ray says:
Those things hurt, yet you can't even acknowledge what kind of pain you've caused me.
Kristy says:
ray we are divorced!!! i don't need to go to coffee with you, i don't need to have conversations and dates with you, i don't need to censor myself with what i say to other men, and i shouldn't have to worry my ex is watching me when i'm out with someone
ray says:
Then why did you tell me to have hope?
ray says:
!
ray says:
Have faith.
ray says:
be patient and lets heal
ray says:
your words
Kristy says:
there used to be that at one point but a lot has happened, sorry you don't see that...
Kristy says:
and i made it very clear it would not be right away if ever
ray says:
What is this "a lot"? The myspace crap?
Kristy says:
i'm not going back over everything with you again ray
ray says:
considering what I tried to do for you on Mother's Day, the invitations to be friends, to talk, hardly "a lot" of bad things have happened.
ray says:
Things could have been much worse.
Kristy says:
ray that is what saddens me more than anything, you just don't seem to recognize the amount of trouble you have caused
ray says:
Hard to not feel anger and betrayal and confusion when the person you loved deeply and cared for is so callous.
ray says:
So what can I do other than apologize? I tried to mend your friendships, they reached out to you and you stood them up! I've opened my house to you to come see the kids when I have them. I have bought you cards, flowers. Made gestures.
ray says:
What else can I say other than I'm sorry. That we have a chance to put all this madness behind us before it's too late.
ray says:
I have reached out to you over and over again.
Kristy says:
ray that's the thing, you haven't left me alone...ever!
ray says:
My gestures have been met with apathy, anger, and venom.
ray says:
Kristy, there will always be a level of interaction between us because of the kids.
Kristy says:
i know that ray, but only a minimum, what is needed for arrangements, but you don't settle for just that
ray says:
I've forgiven your infidelity, I payed you CS when I was unemployed, I didn't make a big deal of you not honoring our divorce agreement when you pocketed that money
ray says:
You sold our van that the bank still has the lien to
ray says:
and I'm stuck with the payments
ray says:
I've looked past all of that and have wished for us to put all this behind us for our kids.
ray says:
That's what has bothered me the most. You never gave me a fair chance. Had you not been unfaithful, we would still be together because you would have seen for yourself the man that I became while deployed and the things I realized when I felt I was going to die.
ray says:
I cuttoff my mother on my own. I pledged to myself to be a better husband and father when I came back.
ray says:
I wanted to love you deeper than you had ever been loved.
Kristy says:
ray, whether i made out with that guy or not, we would not have been together, you came home and i was done already and told you i wanted out
ray says:
And when we got here I REALLY wanted to plan romantic things now that we were in an environment where we could do such things.
ray says:
Kristy, you did A LOT more than make out.
ray says:
To my knowledge he's the only one, but I suspect there were others. Maybe not to the extent of him, but I'm sure you at least kissed some of the others.
Kristy says:
whatever ray, i'm not going to engage you on this topic once more
ray says:
Kristy, you saw how devastated I was before I knew of your infidelity, and you were willing to give me a chance.
Kristy says:
no ray i wasn't
ray says:
You told me you would give me that chance and then I found out about the cheating.
Kristy says:
i couldn't have made it work anymore
ray says:
Why didn't you consider counseling? Something, anything to save our marriage? None of the problems were permanent or unsolvable, especially when I was so willing to address them.
Kristy says:
u came home and i was already ready to leave, you know that, and no, didn't like to see you crashing down from it all and wanted to be able to give you a chance, but knew it wouldn't work
Kristy says:
in your eyes ray
ray says:
Then why did you tell me otherwise?
ray says:
Were you just biding your time to set things up leagally?
ray says:
Why did we go out every Friday?
ray says:
Why did you show me affection when I did things as you wanted me to?
Kristy says:
i was hoping to maintain a good friendship with us ray
ray says:
Why not counseling?
Kristy says:
and i was affectionate when you were a nice person to be around, because while i didn't want to be married to you, i still cared
ray says:
What baffles me is how I could read letters telling me how good a father and husband I was and how deeply you loved me, then have you switch those feelings off?
ray says:
You told me you were so optimistic you were leaving me the Christmas decorations.
ray says:
Were those just things that you felt I wanted to hear? Where did the love, the vows, the committment go? Does having a loving father for your kids not mean anything to you?
ray says:
Giving them an intact home?
Kristy says:
ray don't try to make me feel guilty once again
ray says:
I told you years ago that I was willing to work through anything and work hard to save things.
ray says:
Even infidelity. I told you that long ago before anything bad happened between us.
ray says:
It'
ray says:
It's not guilt. It's trying to make sense of a loss when less than a year ago you and I were in England having a great time riding coasters and going on dates.
ray says:
Those last months in England were the happiest I remember in our marriage.
ray says:
The retreat, the fourth of july, the anticipation of coming back to the states.
ray says:
shopping in nice malls again.
ray says:
settling into our nice new house.
ray says:
These were the things I remember very happily. That's why it's been so hard to let go. It would have been so different if you and I had years of problems and I could see this coming.
ray says:
What I remember is a couple that stuck together through terrible times and thought they were stronger because of it.
ray says:
And now, our kids will grow up with separate homes, shuttling back and forth. Wondering if one parent or the other and hoping that both will go to their events.
ray says:
Just like you told me you were a good wife to me, I was a good husband to you. Not perfect, but I tried my damndest to balance you, work, and the kids.
ray says:
Do these things mean nothing? What are you hoping to find? Think these myspace guys will give it to you?
ray says:
I could at least understand if you were in love with someone else and wanted to try things out with him, but there isn't even that.
ray says:
You have chosen this path. To you, the grass is greener on the other side. You had a man that was loyal, committed, and willing to work with you. I wanted to do whatever it took to make you happy.
ray says:
There are consequences to this choice. Our kids are going to suffer because of it.
ray says:
You don't see it, but they will.
ray says:
For them, I would be willing to do anything, forgive anything, and work my butt off to give them a happy home. It is the committment I made when I took my vows.
ray says:
Have you found my class ring?
ray says:
Are you drafting an agreement with a lawyer?
ray says:
Are you going to answer the last two questions?
ray says:
I need to know about my class ring and about the visitation agreement.
ray says:
I have my reunion coming up.
ray says:
I would like to be able to wear my ring.
ray says:
well?
ray says:
I'm guessing you're on the phone
ray says:
Kristy, I really want an answer to the last two questions. I want to know if you are going to give me my ring, and if you're going to draft a legal visitation arangement.

try reading this

Here's the exchange:



Kristy says:
u called

ray says:
yes. I left messages asking to have the kids call.
Is Amanda still up?


Kristy says:
she went to bed early because she didn't nap today

ray says:
Do you have your vonage setup yet? It only takes a few minutes and it would allow me to call them during the day.
I really would like it if she called me everyday when I don't see her. If I don't get to see them, please let me talk to them.
Please get your vonage setup. It really only takes a few minutes. I really miss being able to talk to her during the day.

Kristy says:
i've been pretty busy ray, i will get it set up soon
‏ay says:
You had this whole past weekend.
It only takes a few minutes.

Kristy says:
ray don't hassle me about how quickly I get MY phone set up
‏ay says:
When it keeps me from talking to the kids, yes, it bothers me.
You ignore my calls all the time.
I'm at the mercy of your cell phone and when you choose to take my calls.
You ignore my calls 90% of the time. I called very early tonight asking you to make sure she called before bed.
It was around 5:45PM
I didn't have this problem when they were at your parents and it means a lot to me when I can't talk to them every day. I would extend this courtesy to you.

Kristy says:
ray, i have a life going on here too, she may not call you EVERY day, i can't promise that...sometimes days may go by where it doesn't happen each and every day

Kristy says:
now...

ray says:
Yes, but you've been putting off setting up your phone when it only takes a few minutes to get it done.
It would allow me to call them during the day so I at least have the chance to talk to them at least once during the day.

Kristy says:
if you want to see the kids this weekend that is fine, since you won't be here next weekend, but we need to work out as far as visitation being every other weekend, not every weekend


ray says:
If that is what you want to do, then I should be allowed to see them during the weeks when I won't have them on the weekend.
This would allow me to see them every week and it is a compromise form what you want.
I don't want it to be where I only see them every other weekend.
Have you considered the option of all of us getting together once a week?
It's not like we're dating anyone and it would allow the kids to see us together every so often.

Kristy says:
we need to work on dividing holidays, but from what i've found out, other than that, a typical suggested schedule for their age as far as daily-wise is every other weekend and one evening (after work until bringing them home for bed) a week


ray says:
We could set it up where we have dinner at my place one week, yours the next.

Kristy says:
no, their time with you will be with you, not with me there too

ray says:
why is that a problem. We're their parents and the time will come when we will do things together such as sports, plays, etc.
They could see their parents in a dinner setting once a week.
Like I said, it's not like either one of us is dating anyone for it to be a problem.

Kristy says:
ray, i don't want to have dinner with you once a week

ray says:
It would be good for them, too.
It's not with me, it's with them

Kristy says:
and you

ray says:
so?

Kristy says:
i don't want that ray....

ray says:
do you hate me that much?

Kristy says:
oh will you stop

Kristy says:
god ray
so why can't we put aside our problems, once a week, and have dinner as a family?

Kristy says:
because we aren't THAT kind of family now

Kristy says:
we are both parents to the kids, but not together parenting

ray says:
Kristy, you're not my enemy. We're parents of these children and like it or not, we do have to parent them together.

Kristy says:
your time with your kids needs to be focused on them, not having me there too

ray says:
We will have to make decisions regarding their school, care, etc.
Wouldn't that allow us to build a friendship? Do it for them?
It is not good for the kids to have a situation where the parents can't stand each other and are hostile around each other. Trust me, it sucks.
To this day it is nice to have my parents be together, even though they aren't "together"
For them it is something we should work towards.
So what happened to the idea of letting me have them at least one night on the weekends?
Are you getting me a formal agreement?

Kristy says:
I got tired of trying to be nice and still dealing with how nasty you could be, it wasn't appreciated when I did things like that for you, you started getting nasty about how much and when you wanted to see them and started getting nasty with me after a couple nights ago when you were crying and i said i didn't want to be with you and there wasn't a chance, then the claws really came out, tired of

Kristy says:
trying to be nice and getting that from you still

ray says:
Kristy, letting me see the kids isn't being "nice". I have asked you to let me see them at least once or twice during the week for dinner or to at least for a few minutes a day on my way home from work. You were saying no to that.
And it really hurts when I can't even call them.
So, yes, I was getting upset about that.

Kristy says:
yes ray, because you have tried to make yourself TOO much of a presence here and don't understand that i don't want to have to deal with you EVERY day now

ray says:
I have continued to reach out to you to let you know that we can do things with the kids together once in a while. I've invited you to come with us to feed the ducks, I've sent you videos of their time here.
No, I don't want to deal with YOU every day. I want to deal with them. At a minimum a phone call.
I saw them more and dealt with them more when you were 40 minutes away.
I still think it is important for us to do things together in front of them once in a while. That's why I suggested having dinner at each other's houses once a week.
If you don't want to deal with me, then just make sure Amanda calls me before bed every night.

Kristy says:
ray that is because we were not working and i had plenty of time with them, i value my alone time with them too you know, and i don't get much of it while working...and yes, you have to deal with me every time you deal with them as far as coming over, and i don't want that happening all the time, you are a DAILY presence i deal with, even through my myspace email

Kristy says:
i can't promise every night ray

ray says:
I still don't understand why you have made me into such an enemy. When you've been friendly to me, I've been friendly back. Things were fine when I dropped them off and sat down and had a donut with you.
Well, as much as possible.
I send you messages on myspace because I know you'll get the messages that way. And, yes, I felt a need to respond to you saying I was boring when I had all these things planned for us if we started seeing each other again.

Kristy says:
right now i just want our interaction to be to exchange the kids and arrangements with them and that be it

Kristy says:
and why do you feel the need to write me there so much

ray says:
Because that's the only way you get messages.
When I've written you lately it was about my lawyer, about me being "boring", and to ask if I would get the kids this weekend.

Kristy says:
and why call me only a couple days ago once again dealing with things on a more personal level, asking about hope for us, crying over stuff, when i've asked you to stop and told you all that stuff before

ray says:
As the kids get older and they get into school, we're going to have to interact with them about their school, teachers, vaccines, etc.
Because I wanted to see if there was any part of you that felt that we should try to save our family. Because I come home every day to an empty house and miss the sounds of my kids. Because I miss the best friend I had in my life for 7 years.

ray says:
Because I feel you will not find what you're looking for online.
Because no man will be better for these kids than me.
Because I am and was willing to forgive and put the past behind and try to make it work to give our kids a two parent home.

Kristy says:
who says i'm looking online...yes, i meet people and have met people from online, but have made mostly friends, and enjoyed going out on some dates, but online is not the only place i meet people

ray says:
Kristy, let's be realistic. If some guy came along that you were really attracted to, you would try to have something with him. Otherwise, you wouldn't say you're on there for serious relationships and you wouldn't leave comments to guys such as "I don't normally leave 'you're hot
' comments, but nice, very, very nice"
Or, "I wouldn't kick you out of the bed"
etc
Treat me like an angel and I'll be your devil
not exactly comments for "friends".

Kristy says:
ray there is nothing wrong with leaving compliments, flirtatious remarks, whatever, nothing wrong with that...

ray says:
For me, it's about the kids. They would be best off in a two parent home and I was willing to work on our problems.

Kristy says:
what is wrong is you checking up on all my friend's webpages to check out all my activity, who i'm talking to, what i'm saying

ray says:
I was willing to address the issues you had problems with and to work.

Kristy says:
and yes, one of the things listed i am open for is a serious relationship, not looking for it, but one day it may happen down the road, so yes, that option is there, nothing wrong with it

ray says:
kristy, you're not some woman I just met 6 months ago. You were my wife, the mother of my kids. Yes, I was going to go through withdrawl from losing you. That meant curiosity about what you were doing and if you were going to go out with someone.
You put that on there right after our divorce. Yet told me there was hope. It contradicted what you were telling me and made me feel like crap.
I'm sorry, Kristy, but I feel that our family and what we had is infinitely better than trying to get someone else to accept and put up with our kids.

Kristy says:
i never told you to sit around and wait since there was hope, i said one day there very well could be a chance in the future, but you have said and done a lot since then that has changed my opinion on things
To give them a home where the two people that loved them most in the world worked together to work out their problems and have a loving marriage.
Yet you haven't done one single thing since our divorce to show me an ounce of hope. Not a coffee, not a date. Nothing. Of course this would upset me. I cry every single day over losing our family.
How can I show niceness, compassion, love, if I'm not given the chance to?
Yet I'm supposed to put aside what I feel as I watch you go out with other men, make out with them in parking lots, and I'm sure by now other things have happened. This is very upsetting to someone that loved you very much and wanted to spend the rest of his life with you and be a good father.
Of course there's going to be a reaction to that. Belive me, I wish I could have flipped a switch and turned off my feelings and not felt anything as you did these things.

Kristy says:
ray, i kissed a guy in the parking lot before leaving...not exactly making out

Kristy says:
which you wouldn't have even seen if you wouldn't have been watching me from inside the door!

ray says:
You talk about my actions but have never addressed yours. You betrayed me in a horrible and painful way, yet I was willing to set that aside to save our marriage.
Kristy, you knew that the mall was one of the only places I could take the kids when I didn't have a place. Part of me thinks you purposely showed up there that day, considering that's where I always took the kids.
Again, you're not some woman I just met. Of course I'd be curious.
You could have just as easily suggested to him that you guys go somewhere else considering I was there with the kids.
Not exactly nice to rub my face in it.
So I don't understand, how exactly was there hope if we never got together and did things to rebuild our relationship, even to the point of friendship.
?
Not even a coffee. A baby step.

Kristy says:
ray, grow up, i didn't go there knowing you would be there that day, if anything i avoid where you will be, and once i saw you there, we did leave...and it's not rubbing your face in it when you are the one who followed over to the door and watched me in the parking lot to see what i was doing, i was out there like 5-10 min before we even kissed goodbye that day and you stood there and watched,

Kristy says:
that isnt my fault you saw

ray says:
Hard to maintain hope when you see your ex w making out with other men and leaving them suggestive comments and wishing them Happy Father's day when I barely get a 'hi'.

Kristy says:
and hope was blown to pieces with things you said and did afterward, sides of you i saw that totally turned every feeling i ever had of possibility into nothing

ray says:
That hurt a lot.
Those things hurt, yet you can't even acknowledge what kind of pain you've caused me.

Kristy says:
ray we are divorced!!! i don't need to go to coffee with you, i don't need to have conversations and dates with you, i don't need to censor myself with what i say to other men, and i shouldn't have to worry my ex is watching me when i'm out with someone

ray says:
Then why did you tell me to have hope?
!
Have faith.
be patient and lets heal
your words

Kristy says:
there used to be that at one point but a lot has happened, sorry you don't see that...

Kristy says:
and i made it very clear it would not be right away if ever

ray says:
What is this "a lot"? The myspace crap?

Kristy says:
i'm not going back over everything with you again ray

ray says:
considering what I tried to do for you on Mother's Day, the invitations to be friends, to talk, hardly "a lot" of bad things have happened.
Things could have been much worse.

Kristy says:
ray that is what saddens me more than anything, you just don't seem to recognize the amount of trouble you have caused

ray says:
Hard to not feel anger and betrayal and confusion when the person you loved deeply and cared for is so callous.
So what can I do other than apologize? I tried to mend your friendships, they reached out to you and you stood them up! I've opened my house to you to come see the kids when I have them. I have bought you cards, flowers. Made gestures.
What else can I say other than I'm sorry. That we have a chance to put all this madness behind us before it's too late.
I have reached out to you over and over again.

Kristy says:
ray that's the thing, you haven't left me alone...ever!

ray says:
My gestures have been met with apathy, anger, and venom.
Kristy, there will always be a level of interaction between us because of the kids.

Kristy says:
i know that ray, but only a minimum, what is needed for arrangements, but you don't settle for just that
I've forgiven your infidelity, I payed you CS when I was unemployed, I didn't make a big deal of you not honoring our divorce agreement when you pocketed that money
You sold our van that the bank still has the lien to
and I'm stuck with the payments
I've looked past all of that and have wished for us to put all this behind us for our kids.
That's what has bothered me the most. You never gave me a fair chance. Had you not been unfaithful, we would still be together because you would have seen for yourself the man that I became while deployed and the things I realized when I felt I was going to die.
I cuttoff my mother on my own. I pledged to myself to be a better husband and father when I came back.
I wanted to love you deeper than you had ever been loved.

Kristy says:
ray, whether i made out with that guy or not, we would not have been together, you came home and i was done already and told you i wanted out

ray says:
And when we got here I REALLY wanted to plan romantic things now that we were in an environment where we could do such things.
Kristy, you did A LOT more than make out.

ray says:
To my knowledge he's the only one, but I suspect there were others. Maybe not to the extent of him, but I'm sure you at least kissed some of the others.

Kristy says:
whatever ray, i'm not going to engage you on this topic once more
Kristy, you saw how devastated I was before I knew of your infidelity, and you were willing to give me a chance.

Kristy says:
no ray i wasn't

ray says:
You told me you would give me that chance and then I found out about the cheating.

Kristy says:
i couldn't have made it work anymore

ray says:
Why didn't you consider counseling? Something, anything to save our marriage? None of the problems were permanent or unsolvable, especially when I was so willing to address them.

Kristy says:
u came home and i was already ready to leave, you know that, and no, didn't like to see you crashing down from it all and wanted to be able to give you a chance, but knew it wouldn't work

Kristy says:
in your eyes ray

ray says:
Then why did you tell me otherwise?
Were you just biding your time to set things up leagally?
Why did we go out every Friday?
Why did you show me affection when I did things as you wanted me to?

Kristy says:
i was hoping to maintain a good friendship with us ray

ray says:
Why not counseling?

Kristy says:
and i was affectionate when you were a nice person to be around, because while i didn't want to be married to you, i still cared
What baffles me is how I could read letters telling me how good a father and husband I was and how deeply you loved me, then have you switch those feelings off?
You told me you were so optimistic you were leaving me the Christmas decorations.
Were those just things that you felt I wanted to hear? Where did the love, the vows, the committment go? Does having a loving father for your kids not mean anything to you?
Giving them an intact home?


Kristy says:
ray don't try to make me feel guilty once again

ray says:
I told you years ago that I was willing to work through anything and work hard to save things.
Even infidelity. I told you that long ago before anything bad happened between us.
It'
It's not guilt. It's trying to make sense of a loss when less than a year ago you and I were in England having a great time riding coasters and going on dates.
Those last months in England were the happiest I remember in our marriage.
The retreat, the fourth of july, the anticipation of coming back to the states.
shopping in nice malls again.
settling into our nice new house.
These were the things I remember very happily. That's why it's been so hard to let go. It would have been so different if you and I had years of problems and I could see this coming.
What I remember is a couple that stuck together through terrible times and thought they were stronger because of it.
And now, our kids will grow up with separate homes, shuttling back and forth. Wondering if one parent or the other and hoping that both will go to their events.
Just like you told me you were a good wife to me, I was a good husband to you. Not perfect, but I tried my damndest to balance you, work, and the kids.
Do these things mean nothing? What are you hoping to find? Think these myspace guys will give it to you?
I could at least understand if you were in love with someone else and wanted to try things out with him, but there isn't even that.
You have chosen this path. To you, the grass is greener on the other side. You had a man that was loyal, committed, and willing to work with you. I wanted to do whatever it took to make you happy.
There are consequences to this choice. Our kids are going to suffer because of it.
You don't see it, but they will.
For them, I would be willing to do anything, forgive anything, and work my butt off to give them a happy home. It is the committment I made when I took my vows.
Have you found my class ring?
Are you drafting an agreement with a lawyer?
Are you going to answer the last two questions?
I need to know about my class ring and about the visitation agreement.
I have my reunion coming up.
I would like to be able to wear my ring.
well?
I'm guessing you're on the phone
Kristy, I really want an answer to the last two questions. I want to know if you are going to give me my ring, and if you're going to draft a legal visitation arangement.

Papaof3,

My friend, you are definitely wrapped too tight right now.I am very worried about anyone that can transcribe??? a telephone conversation of the length above.

Papa, you need to back off for your health, both physical and mental. Get to your family doc, let him examine you and get on some anti-depressants if he feels they are in order.

Get out and walk, run or drive.

Exhaust yourself physically.

Get in a plane and fly.

Get involved with helping someone or some cause unrelated to marital or family woes.

Papa, you are in my prayers.

hey...i dont know all of your sitch, but from i have picked up is that your W cheated and pretty much screwed your life and is now screwing your time up with your kid....

bruatl honesty???? ill give you an opinion from what i read....

GROW some balls!! bro!!! (i dont mean that in a mean way either) you arnt the only one who is going through something like this so here goes...


first....you have to see that she is using your kid against you...she will NOT do anything to make your relationship with your child easy...

SHE DONT CARE!!

second....the sooner you realize this...the better for you...

your exchange should have been...

""Kristy says:
u called

ray says:
yes. I left messages asking to have the kids call.
Is Amanda still up?


Kristy says:
she went to bed early because she didn't nap today

ray says:
Do you have your vonage setup yet? It only takes a few minutes and it would allow me to call them during the day.
I really would like it if she called me everyday when I don't see her. If I don't get to see them, please let me talk to them.
Please get your vonage setup. It really only takes a few minutes. I really miss being able to talk to her during the day."""

at this point i would have said..."OK. no problem, just wanted to call and say g'nite, i have plans and wanted to talk before i left, but no prob, ill call back tomarrow....gd'bye"


afterward...go beat up your pillow or vent to a friend....

NEVER NEVER NEVER have another conversation like you did with your XW....

it not only destroys your self respect, but she will think your a total wimp, (sorry bro, but that was my opinion too) and you will actually push her further away and she will make your life miserable with the kid...


third.....why in the world would you ask her on a date????? or to dinner???? are YOU THAT NEEDY??? and beaten down?????

thats the impression i got....

from the gist of this exchange you gave her incredible power over you and total control.....

i know it sucks.....but STOP letting her have that much power over you....

TRUST me...the minute you start to get on with your life and stop hassling her or pursueing her....her whole attitude may change...my XW's did....

the next time she calls, tell her your busy, have plans or whatever and BLOW her off....

just try it, and see if you get a different reaction from her....

THE LAST THING SHE WANTS IS FOR YOU TO BE HAPPY!!! NEVER forget that.....

from this whole exchange...i read that you are miserable and full of self pity...

you want honesty....thats my honest opinion....

hang in there!

cyamanca: It's not a phone conversation. It's instant messenger. All I did was cut and past.

sturgis: Thanks. I know. I need to start. I guess I'm hoping for some magical explanation and logic as to why she did what she did. How long did it take for your ex to wake up? Did you take her back?

Remove your WW from the equation.

Buy your children a special phone just for them. A cell phone. Give it to the oldest and tell them to keep it in his/her bedroom and that you will call them each night or they can call you before going to bed.

If she continues to threaten that you cannot speak to them everyday, speak with a lawyer....and dont tell your WW about it!

Papa,

Step one: Save the IM exchange to a special folder and forward a copy of the exchange to your attorney. Some of what she used might be usable against her in the custody dispute to show she is not doing what is in the best interests of the children, which is allowing them access to their father. The fact that she did not deny your statement about how she didn't use the money to pay off the debts and went and bought a new car might be usable against her on the contempt claim.

Step two: Move on. You are going to get know where with this woman. All interactions with her should be short, sweet and succinct - and should only address issues relating to the children. Yes, you are still a family to those children, but you and wife are no longer family. Your doing things together, now, "as a family" means you and your kids, not you, your kids and XW.

Step three: With your background, any commercial airline would snap you up. Continental has a hub in Newark, which is not ALL that far from MD. They pay phenomenally and your new financial status might be very appealing to your XW.....especially when you consider the travel benefits for your immediate family....you could take kids on all kinds of GREAT vacations to all kinds of wonderful places....don't you think she'd be jealous of that? Don't you think she'd want a piece of that? Don't you think she'd admire you for taking charge of your life and not letting her call the shots on what you will do, not do and when?

Step 4: Find out whether your state has a Standard Visitation Order. If it does, it will set forth the hows and whens of visitation (including Holidays) and you will cut her off at the knees because I don't think she will like what it says!!!! If it does not, post back on here and I will get you a copy of the Standard Visitation Order here in TX....

Regards,

BB

Brit is the greatest! Follow her advice closely!

There is NOTHING attractive about begging. Stop it. You are driving her away by chasing her and begging her.

What IS attractive is confidence. Start getting your act together and let her chase you. Start becoming less available to her.

to my knowledge, there is no standard visitation in MD. It is usually done through mediation, and if that doesn't work, then it goes to trial.

I got hired by a PriceWaterhouseCoopers, which is a huge company, and they're paying me 90K a year to start. It's a good job, but not as exciting as flying. That's ok, though, since I live 5 minutes away from kids.

It has great benefits and a good culture. I'll know more in about 6 months how I like it. If I don't, I'll have some good things on my resume that I can use to get a job that pays just as well but is closer to where I live.

I wouldn't mind seeing the TX standard visitation order.

Also, I save ALL my IM exchanges with her. I will give them to lawyer.

Papa,

I know you are hurting. I feel for you.

You know you are divorced don't you?

You know what divorce means right?

Your X can date an entire football team if she wishes, she is a single woman. You don't have a say as to her dating habits.

Stop all this madness.


Get your kids a cellphone and call them. Get your X out of the middle. You have a relationship to build with your kids, your relationship, as husband and wife, with you x is over.

I'm sorry Papa, but this behavior is just going to push your X further and further from her.

Leave her alone.

Well, if brutal honesty is what you want.....


You will never get back together with your ex-wife. Never. That relationship is over, and it cannot and will not be re-established. You two are done forever.

You keep saying it is about the kids, and then you keep pushing and pushing and pushing to try to get your wife back. That won't happen.

No, you can't have dinner with her as a family - you aren't a family. No, you can't work on the issues with your marriage - you don't have a marriage. No, you have no right to tell what kind of comments people can leave on her myspace account - it is none of your business.

No wonder she doesn't want to set up the vonage thing - just another way for you to nag at her and harass her and try to get back in.




How much of a whack with the Clue Stick do you need? She doesn't like you anymore. She doesn't want to be married to you. She doesn't want to have anything more to do with you than the arrangements of the children require.

And then this piece of BS from you -

She stops engaging you, and you immediately try to find something to drag her back so you can return to this endless, obsessive nagging and nagging and trying to pretend.

Cripes, this is just creepy!

IT'S OVER.

Here you go Papa (and any others who do not live in states with Standard Possession Orders - this is truly a solid middle ground that a mediator or judge will jump on as reasonable....)

TEXAS STANDARD POSSESSION ORDER:

Texas Standard Possession Order
It is the policy of this state to encourage frequent contact between a child and each parent for periods of possession that optimize the development of a close and continuing relationship between each parent and child. It is preferable for all children in a family to be together during periods of possession.

School.

The term school means the primary or secondary school in which the child is enrolled, or if the child is not enrolled in a primary or secondary school, the public school district in which the child primarily resides.

Child.

The term child shall refer to the child or children of the parties and shall include the plural form wherever appropriate to the context.

IT IS ORDERED AND DECREED that the parties shall have possession of the child at any and all times mutually agreed to in advance by the parties and, in the absence of mutual agreement, shall have possession of the child under the specified terms set out in this Standard Possession Order.

A. PARENTS WHO RESIDE 100 MILES OR LESS APART

(a) If the possessory conservator resides 100 miles or less from the primary residence of the child, the possessory conservator shall have the right to possession of the child as follows:

(1) Weekends. On weekends beginning: (CHECK ONE)

______ At 6:00 o'clock p.m. on the first, third and fifth Friday of each month;

______ If the child is enrolled in school, at the time the child's school is regularly dismissed on the first, third and fifth Friday of each month;

_______ If the child is enrolled in school, at_______ o'clock____.m. (specify time elected between the time the child's school is regularly dismissed and 6:00 o'clock p.m.) on the first, third and fifth Friday of each month;

and ending: (CHECK ONE)

______ At 6:00 o'clock p.m. on the following Sunday.

______ If the child is enrolled in school, at the time the child's school resumes after the weekend.

(2) Weekend Possession Extended By Holiday. If a weekend period of possession of the possessory conservator coincides with a school holiday during the regular school term, or with a federal, state or local holiday during the summer months in which school is not in session, the weekend possession shall begin: (CHECK ONE)

_______ At 6:00 o'clock p.m. Thursday for a Friday holiday or school holiday;

_______ At the time the child's school is regularly dismissed for a Friday holiday or school holiday;

_______ If the child is enrolled in school, at_______ o'clock____.m. (specify time elected between the time the child's school is regularly dismissed and 6:00 o'clock p.m.) on the day that the child's school is regularly dismissed for a Friday holiday or school holiday;

and ending: (CHECK ONE)

_______ At 6:00 o'clock p.m. on a Monday holiday or school holiday;

_______ If the child is enrolled in school, at the time the child's school resumes after a Monday holiday or school holiday.

(3) Wednesday. On Wednesdays of each week during the regular school term beginning:

(CHECK ONE)

________ At 6:00 o'clock p.m.;

________ At the time the child's school is regularly dismissed; and ending at 8:00 o'clock p.m.

(b) The following provisions govern possession of the child for vacations and certain holidays and supersede conflicting weekend or Wednesday periods of possession. The possessory conservator and the managing conservator shall have rights of possession of the child as follows:

(1) Spring Vacation. The possessory conservator shall have possession of the child in even-numbered years beginning: (CHECK ONE)

________ At 6:00 o'clock p.m. on the day the child is dismissed from school for the school's spring vacation;

_________ If the child is enrolled in school, at the time the child's school is regularly dismissed for the school's spring vacation;

________ If the child is enrolled in school, at _______ o'clock _____.m. (specify time elected between the time the child's school is regularly dismissed and 6:00 o'clock p.m.) on the day the child is dismissed from school for the school's spring vacation;

and ending: (CHECK ONE)

________ At 6:00 o'clock p.m. on the day before school resumes after that vacation.

________ If the child is enrolled in school, at the time the child's school resumes after that vacation.

The managing conservator shall have possession for the same period in odd-numbered years.

(2) Summer.

(A) If the possessory conservator gives the managing conservator written notice by May 1 of each year specifying an extended period or periods of summer possession, the possessory conservator shall have possession of the child for thirty (30) days beginning not earlier than the day after the child's school is dismissed for the summer vacation and ending not later than seven (7) days before school resumes at the end of the summer vacation, to be exercised in not more than two (2) separate periods of at least seven (7) consecutive days each.

(B) If the possessory conservator does not give the managing conservator written notice by May 1 of each year specifying an extended period or periods of summer possession, the possessory conservator shall have possession of the child for thirty (30) consecutive days beginning at 6:00 o'clock p.m. on July 1 and ending at 6:00 o'clock p.m. on July 31.

(C)If the managing conservator gives the possessory conservator written notice by June 1 of each year, the managing conservator shall have possession of the child on any one weekend beginning Friday at 6:00 o'clock p.m. and ending at 6:00 o'clock p.m. on the following Sunday during any one period of possession by the possessory conservator under Subdivisions (b)(1) or (b)(2), provided that the managing conservator picks up the child from the possessory conservator and returns the child to that same place.

(D) If the managing conservator gives the possessory conservator written notice by May 15 of each year or gives the possessory conservator 14 days' written notice on or after May 16 of each year, the managing conservator may designate one weekend beginning not earlier than the day after the child's school is dismissed for the summer vacation and ending not later than seven (7) days before school resumes at the end of the summer vacation, during which an otherwise scheduled weekend period of possession by the possessory conservator will not take place, provided that the weekend so designated does not interfere with the possessory conservator's period or periods of extended summer possession or with Father's Day weekend if the possessory conservator is the father of the child.

B. PARENTS WHO RESIDE OVER 100 MILES APART

If the possessory conservator resides more than 100 miles from the residence of the child, the possessory conservator shall have the right to possession of the child as follows:

a) Weekends. On weekends beginning: (CHECK ONE)

______ At 6:00 o'clock p.m. on the first, third, and fifth Friday of each month;

______ If the child is enrolled in school, at the time the child's school is regularly dismissed on the first, third and fifth Friday of each month;

______ If the child is enrolled in school, at _______ o'clock____.m. (specify time elected between the time the child's school is regularly dismissed and 6:00 o'clock p.m.) on the first, third and fifth Friday of each month;

and ending: (CHECK ONE)

_____ At 6:00 o'clock p.m. on the following Sunday.

______If the child is enrolled in school, at the time the child's school resumes after the weekend.

(b) Alternative Weekend Possession. In lieu of the foregoing, the possessory conservator shall have the right to possession of the child not more than one weekend per month of the possessory conservator's choice beginning: (CHECK ONE)

_______ At 6:00 o'clock p.m. on the day school recesses for the weekend;

_______ If the child is enrolled in school, at the time the child's school is regularly dismissed for the weekend;

_______ If the child is enrolled in school, at _______ o'clock _____.m. (specify time elected between the time the child's school is regularly dismissed and 6:00 o'clock p.m.) on the day school recesses for the weekend; and ending: (CHECK ONE)

_______ At 6:00 o'clock p.m. on the day before school resumes after the weekend.

________ If the child is enrolled in school, at the time the child's school resumes after the weekend. The possessory conservator may elect an option for this alternative period of possession by giving written notice to the managing conservator within ninety (90) days after the parties begin to reside more than 100 miles apart. If the possessory conservator makes this election, the possessory conservator shall give the managing conservator fourteen (14) days' written or telephonic notice preceding a designated weekend.

(C)Weekend Possession Extended By Holiday. If a weekend period of possession of the possessory conservator coincides with a school holiday during the regular school term, or with a federal, state or local holiday during the summer months in which school is not in session, the weekend possession shall begin: (CHECK ONE)

_______ At 6:00 o'clock p.m. Thursday for a Friday holiday or school holiday;

_______ At the time the child's school is regularly dismissed for a Friday holiday or school holiday;

_______ If the child is enrolled in school, at _______ o'clock _____.m. (specify time elected between the time the child's school is regularly dismissed and 6:00 o'clock p.m.) on the day that the child's school is regularly dismissed for a Friday holiday or school holiday;

and ending: (CHECK ONE)

_______ At 6:00 o'clock p.m. on a Monday holiday or school holiday;

_______If the child is enrolled in school, at the time the child's school resumes after a Monday holiday or school holiday.

(d) Spring Vacation. Each year beginning: (CHECK ONE)

________At 6:00 o'clock p.m. on the day the child is dismissed from school for the school's spring vacation;

_________If the child is enrolled in school, at the time the child's school is regularly dismissed for the school's spring vacation;

________ If the child is enrolled in school, at _________ o'clock _____.m. (specify time elected between the time the child's school is regularly dismissed and 6:00 o'clock p.m. on the day the child is dismissed from school for the school's spring vacation;

and ending: (CHECK ONE)

________ At 6:00 o'clock p.m. on the day before school resumes after that vacation.

________ If the child is enrolled in school, at the time the child's school resumes after that vacation.

(e) Summer.

(1) If the possessory conservator gives the managing conservator written notice by May 1 of each year specifying an extended period or periods of summer possession, the possessory conservator shall have possession of the child for 42 days beginning not earlier than the day after the child's school is dismissed for the summer vacation and ending not later than seven (7) days before school resumes at the end of the summer vacation, to be exercised in not more than two (2) separate periods of at least seven (7) consecutive days each.

(2) If the possessory conservator does not give the managing conservator written notice by May 1 of each year specifying an extended period or periods of summer possession, the possessory conservator shall have possession of the child for 42 consecutive days beginning at 6:00 o'clock p.m. on June 15 and ending at 6:00 o'clock p.m. on July 27.

(3) If the managing conservator gives the possessory conservator written notice by June 1 of each year, the managing conservator shall have possession of the child on any one weekend beginning Friday at 6:00 o'clock p.m. and ending at 6:00 o'clock p.m. on the following Sunday during any one period of possession by the possessory conservator under Subdivisions (5)(a) or (5)(b), provided that if a period of possession by the possessory conservator exceeds thirty (30) days, the managing conservator may have possession of the child under the terms of this subdivision on any two (2) nonconsecutive weekends during that time period, and further provided that the managing conservator picks up the child from the possessory conservator and returns the child to that same place.

4) If the managing conservator gives the possessory conservator written notice by June 1 of each year, the managing conservator may designate 21 days beginning not earlier than the day after the child's school is dismissed for the summer vacation and ending not later than seven (7) days before school resumes at the end of the summer vacation, to be exercised in not more than two (2) separate periods of at least seven (7) consecutive days each, during which the possessory conservator may not have possession of the child, provided that the period or periods so designated do not interfere with the possessory conservator's period or periods of extended summer possession or with Father's Day weekend if the possessory conservator is the father of the child.

C. HOLIDAY POSSESSION

The following provisions govern possession of the child for certain specific holidays and supersede conflicting weekend or Wednesday periods of possession without regard to the distance the parents reside apart. The possessory conservator and managing conservator shall have rights of possession of the child as follows:

(a) Christmas.

(1) The possessory conservator shall have possession of the child in even-numbered years beginning at 6:00 o'clock p.m. on the day the child is dismissed from school for the Christmas vacation and ending at noon on December 26. The managing conservator shall have possession for the same period in odd-numbered years.

(2)The possessory conservator shall have possession of the child in odd-numbered years beginning at noon on December 26 and ending: (CHECK ONE)

________ At 6:00 o'clock p.m. on the day before school resumes after that vacation.

_________If the child is enrolled in school, at the time the child's school resumes after that vacation.

The managing conservator shall have possession for the same period in even-numbered years.

(b) Thanksgiving. The possessory conservator shall have possession of the child in odd-numbered years beginning: (CHECK ONE)

________ At 6:00 o'clock p.m. on the day the child is dismissed from school before Thanksgiving;

________ If the child is enrolled in school, at the time the child's school is regularly dismissed for the Thanksgiving vacation;

________If the child is enrolled in school, at _______ o'clock _____.m. (specify time elected between the time the child's school is regularly dismissed and 6:00 o'clock p.m.) on the day the child is dismissed from school before Thanksgiving;

and ending: (CHECK ONE)

________ At 6:00 o'clock p.m. on the following Sunday.

_________If the child is enrolled in school, at the time the child's school resumes after that vacation.

The managing conservator shall have possession for the same period in even-numbered years.

(c) Child's Birthday. The parent not otherwise entitled under this standard order to present possession of a child on the child's birthday shall have possession of the child beginning at 6:00 o'clock p.m. and ending at 8:00 o'clock p.m. on that day, provided that said parent picks up the child from the residence of the conservator entitled to possession and returns the child to that same place.

(d) Father's Day Weekend. If a conservator, the father shall have possession of the child beginning at 6:00 o'clock p.m. on the Friday preceding Father's Day and ending on Father's Day at 6:00 o'clock p.m., provided that, if he is not otherwise entitled under this standard order to present possession of the child, he picks up the child from the residence of the conservator entitled to possession and returns the child to that same place.

(e) Mother's Day Weekend. If a conservator, the mother shall have possession of the child beginning at 6:00 o'clock p.m. on the Friday preceding Mother's Day and ending on Mother's Day at 6:00 o'clock p.m., provided that, if she is not otherwise entitled under this standard order to present possession of the child, she picks up the child from the residence of the conservator entitled to possession and returns the child to that same place.

D. GENERAL TERMS AND CONDITIONS

Without regard to the distance between the residence of the parent and the child:

(a) The managing conservator shall surrender the child to the possessory conservator at the beginning of each period of the possessory conservator's possession at the residence of the managing conservator.

(b) If the possessory conservator elects to begin a period of pos session at the time the child's school is regularly dismissed, the managing conservator shall surrender the child to the possessory conservator at the beginning of each such period of possession at the school in which the child is enrolled.

(c) The possessory conservator shall: (CHECK ONE)

_______ Surrender the child to the managing conservator at the end of each period of possession at the residence of the possessory conservator.

________Return the child to the residence of the managing conservator at the end of each period of possession. The possessory conservator shall surrender the child to the managing conservator at the end of each period of possession at the residence of the possessory conservator if (1) the possessory conservator's county of residence remains the same after the rendition of this order, and the managing conservator's county of residence changes, effective on the date of the change of domicile by the managing conservator, or (2) the possessory conservator and managing conservator lived in the same residence at any time during a six-month period preceding the date on which a suit for dissolution of the marriage was filed and the possessory conservator's county of residence remains the same and the managing conservator's county of residence changes after they no longer live in the same residence, effective on the date the order is rendered.

(d) If the possessory conservator elects to end a period of possession at the time the child's school resumes, the possessory conservator shall surrender the child to the managing conservator at the end of each such period of possession at the school in which the child is enrolled.

(e) Each conservator shall return with the child the personal effects that the child brought at the beginning of the period of possession.

(f) Either parent may designate any competent adult to pick up and return the child, as applicable. A parent or a designated competent adult shall be present when the child is picked up or returned.

(g) A parent shall give notice to the person in possession of the child on each occasion that the parent will be unable to exercise that parent's right of possession for any specified period. Repeated failure of a parent to give notice of an inability to exercise possessory rights may be considered as a factor in a modification of those possessory rights.

(h) Written notice shall be deemed to have been timely made if received or postmarked before or at the time that notice is due.

(I) If a conservator's time of possession of a child ends at the time school resumes and for any reason the child is not or will not be returned to school, the conservator in possession of the child shall immediately notify the school and the other conservator that the child will not be or has not been returned to school.

Okay, now that I posted that, I wanted to add that I chuckled that you are now with PWC. Prior to meeting and marrying XH, I was engaged to and lived with a commercial airline pilot. He graduated Magna Cum Laude with an engineeering degree from one of the highest ranked engineering school in the country. He went to work for a VERY recognized company working on the precursor to the Star Wars stuff the government was working on for so long. He decided engineering wasn't for him and went back to school for a MBA in Finance. He graduated With Honors from one of the top ranked business schools in the country. He then went to work from PW (before it was PWC0). He hated it! SOOOOOO, he got his commercial pilot's license, did his stint with a small regional airline to get his flight hours, and is not with one of the major carriers. He makes more at the airline (with a MUCH better work schedule and benefits) than he would have had working in either of his previous careers!!! He also used his Finance degree to his personal advantage managing his investments. He has money in all major stock markets and is worth a WHOLE heck of a lot. (Too bad money can't buy personality and social skills)!

Regards,

BB

BRUTAL HONESTY HERE:

That seemed desperate, and something a loser would write. Papa....let her go. You need to move on for real man. Your EX as said above, is not coming back. Further more, she probably thinks you are really pathetic with all the begging and nagging in that email. Grow a nuttsack and go out and enjoy life a bit. I guarantee you that your EX will respect you much more if you act like you have a backbone. Right now she thinks you are an AXE murderer.....j/k, but you do probably make her skin crawl with these messages.


From personal experience.....I did the same thing to my XW, and until I grew a pair.....got my self esteem up and left her alone, did she begin to respect me again. When my new wife and I go to events that involve our kids.....everyone tells me they see my XW staring at me....(us sometimes). You can tell she is miserable and knows she made a mistake.

My XW would have never changed unless I let her go.....you need to do the same man.

God Bless.

creepy?

Withdrawl is more like it. I never saw this coming. I'm still searching for answers for why she did this.

I understand I won't get them.

That doesn't change her getting a phone. I have no way of contacting my kids and the nanny has nothing she can use to call someone in case of an emergency other than to run to a neighbor. I have no way of getting a hold of them in case of an emergency.

Thanks to Alhumand and Startinover.

It helps to hear that others have gone through the same thing and are now well and happy.

Yes, I believe my ex will be just like yours. Someday she'll regret what she's done.

It has been hard to get back on my feet. I'm slowly getting there and like the feedback on this forum. I appreciate it, even when it can be biting.

Throwing her butt into court is a start. At this point, what do I have to lose?

I didnt mean to be OVERLY rough, but sometimes someone needs to hear this in order to get through to them.

I do agree that you XW needs to supply you with a means to contact your kids. My kids are still young, but they know my cellphone number, and I can call my XWs cell at anytime to contact the kids. My stepson is 10 and has his own cellphone, so he can get in touch with his mother and I and can call his dad at will.

Good luck man, again Im sorry to be so rough....

Papa this is of critical importance to your lawyer with regard to the custody issue. She has not provided the nanny with a phone to use in event of emergencies.

Regards,

BB

Not rough. It's ok. Tough love is good. It is also a wakeup. It's like slapping someone and shaking them and telling them to get a hold of themselves. It's ok if it works. That's what I need.

Weakness kept me from acting on what I knew I should have done in my gut back when I foudnd out about all of this. I let her stay in the house and begged and pleaded and did all that I shouldn't.

two thoughts....

the advice to save IM's is right on....it sounds like you already did that...

you have to realize that she is and will continue to disprespect you and will do everything oposite of what you want regarding the child...

it dosent really matter how many times you go to court or what a judge says....THERE ARE NO WINNERS...and the biggest loser is your kid!!!!!

heres what i did....i agreed...i agreed with everything....she only wanted me to have my kids every other weekend...I AGREED...

she didnt want me hangin around during the week....I AGREED

she dosent want to hook up the phone....AGREE!!! "hey no prob"....

when you talk to her....think about how you are going to "beat her at her own game"....around her its always "game on"....

this type of stuff went on with me and my ex about 6 months....for the last 2 1/2 years i get my kids 50/50 equal time!!

look at it this way.....SHE CANNOT get on with her life while there is a child with her....she will need child care and babysitting...

she will NEED you long before you ever will NEED her again

ONCE YOU LET GO!!!!

start going on dates...go to coffee, the movies, lunch...it dont matter...just make yourself more attractive and confident....

there will always be things about your X that you will miss....i still miss cetain things 3 years later...but....

my X is ugly on the inside...and nothing will change that but herself...you will also get to that point in time....

im 3 years into my D, and i would NEVER go back....but the first year was hard....darkest days of my life, so i know how you feel...

just work on yourself right now....

think of it this way........

ask anyone especially a woman.....i truely belive it is HARDER for a single woman with a child to find someone that wants a pre-made family than it is for a man...(i personally would NOT have a relationship with a woman with kids) TOO much hassle with X's and such....

GIVE HER THE GIFT OF "missing you"....you cant do that when you beg, pursue or hassle!!!

i been dating a awesome gal for last year and half that i just happened to meet at starbucks while i was getting my truck washed......SO.....

it can happen and once you see life goes on....you will be in a much better place!

im a cop for over 21 years so D runs high in my line of work...i see it everyday...you may think or feel that she Holds all the ace's....but if you take all the advice that has been given you....the power will shift and you may realize that you will eventually get what you want....

right now she NEEDS you to fight with...she NEEDS you to be angry....she NEEDS you as an outlet....

STOP giving that to her...

STOP asking about a ring....

STOP hassling her about the phone....

AGREE to the arrangements right now and take the extra time to get on with your life!!!

enjoy your freedom

the minute YOU start to change....SHE will notice and you will notice the change also....

but be careful what you wish for.....the last thing you ever want is the cops or courts dictating your custody or visitation....i know form first hand...

slow down and take a break for a few weeks....

and see if doing the oposite works....

heck...i went out and bought a chopper and started going to Stugis every year...riding all over....FREAKED her out and made her JEALOUS!!!

do something you love with your spare time and it will ease the pain of missing your child....

and down the road if it dosnt change....THEN YOU FIGHT....but that should be the last resort....

thats just my honest opinion.