oh yeah....

what do you have to lose by going to court????

you can lose EVERYTHING!!!

what if she paints you as an emotional wreck...and takes that IM exchange to court....several people already told you what it sounds like...

"you wound too tight"

"creepy"

just to name a few....

you may get court ordered 20% visitaion and what happens if they order "supervised" visits...

paint you as a war vet with PTSD etc.....

im trying to make a point...

SLEEP on it...try to slow down....

in my opinion YOU are using your kid against her too!!!!

this will just further destroy any relationship down the road....

right now your hurting and your pissed off!! understandable....

but slow down.

Papa....once you get yourself in a better place everything falls into place...you must focus on you! YOU! YOU!!!

It pained me reading your exchanges.....

Look.....at my story...I was in the same place you were....and as I became ok with myself and my situation things change.....

Good luck

Why aren't YOU doing this?

You claim to have an atty.
You claim to be broke.
You claim to have retained said atty with a credit card. You claim to have a 90k salary job.
You claim your XW is in contempt.

You keep posing empty threats (on the board) that you are going to take her back to court. Don't threaten, DO IT! Why are you continuing to hand over all control over your parental rights over to your XW?

Also, you were cautioned on your previous thread about getting involved with an XGF (married woman) who wants to fly in from CA to see you. You are bordering on becoming involved in an affair yourself. That thread has conveniently slipped from page 1 as you continue to dodge the tough questions.

Dude, you need to let this go before you end up with a TRO against you. These kinds of exchanges do nothing but diminish you and give your EX-WIFE ammunition to paint you as a nut-job. I've seen this happen and it's not pretty.

Your #1 priority should be to get a good legally binding shared parenting agreement. You should not have to settle for minimum "visitation". You need sound legal advice from an attorney regarding this. Your ex-ww is holding all the cards as long as you let her.

Forget about ex-ww and concentrate on being the dad your kids desperately need.

Forget about using stuff like IM transcripts for custody-related stuff. The IM transcript doesn't show anything except that you refuse to let go of her.

Say nothing to ex-ww aside from discussing schedules for the children. Any other talk is unwanted and, frankly, inappropriate given that you are divorced. You are not her husband anymore and you need to deal with that.

Take the advice here and get your children a cell phone. I did exactly this for my children and it removes ExWife from the equation very nicely.

Sorry if this seems harsh but we do care. You really need to see you are heading down a road you will regret.

ITB

I thinks that's for his lawyer to decide. If this were one of my clients, there are things I could do to his XW on cross-examination with this stuff....For example, in addition to there being no denial on her part that she did not act in accordance with their divorce decree with regard to paying of debt, this could very easily be used to show she is denying him access to their kids. No matter what her feelings are for him, she is denying him access to their kids without court order allowing her to do so. Additional cross examination of XW should she try to paint Papa out as a nut job would be along the lines of, "If you felt this way Mrs. Papa, why did it take you so long to bring this up and you only now bring it up as a defense to his not gaining custody?" You see, if she truly felt visitation with Papa was not in the best interests of the children, she would proactively get a court order either 1) denying him any access (courts RARELY if ever do this) or 2) requiring supervised visitation.

Additionally, his XW would have to have a psychiatric expert say he is mentally unfit to have anything but supervised visitation with his children. That right there would be fun on cross examination because the expert would have to explain why a person's spouse, having an affair on them and leaving them while they are defending our country against enemy combatants, would not affect anybody the way it has affected Papa. Heck, all of us BS's here can attest to the emotional trauma involved with just the affair and spouse leaving. Also, Papa would be able to present his own psych experts to say he's not mentally unstable - battle of the experts so to speak (This is exactly why Andrea Yates was convicted in her first trial but not the second).

Regards,

BB

papa...

You are getting great advice here. Please take heed of the advice and start moving on in your life. If things are "meant to be", re: your exW coming out of the fog and wanting to rekindle a life with you, you need to be a lot stronger in order to deal with it.

In other words, start to focus on a state of emotional detachment from her. Focus all of your thoughts and actions on your life. Heal. Regain your strength and self-esteem. As a BS, I know how an A can strip you of all your dignity. It's time for papa to step into a new box of thinking, and start living life as a single dad.

I agree with the others...get your kids a cell phone. An extension from yours can be as cheap at $10 a month. Then, exW is out of the picture. If she restrains their access or use, that's fodder for your attorney in denial of access.

Get with your attorney and get the custody issues out and on the table. Document every transaction. Do not let any lingering feelings for your exW cloud your thinking. As MortarMan said, this is a war. Approach the custody issue with military precision and tenacity.

Stop with the quibbling with the ex.... as I've stated before, you are willingly handing all the power over to her, and leaving yourself with a bent barrel and no ammo. Just stop it. It's a no win situation. And right now, you have more to lose than exW.

Absorb all these wonderful posts, develop your plan, and execute.

Best wishes,
SD

BB,

Thanks so much! It is great to hear from a lawyer.

Here's the facts:

I've watched the kids EVERY single weekend since coming home from the war in order to let her go out clubbing. It happened while we were still married and continued after D. While in MD, and unemployed, I had them 2-3 times a week plus every weekend. Again, so she could go shopping and clubbing. The only exception to this was a 2 week trip to CA when I went to visit family.

I have a copy of the original check that was signed over to her and the stamp from her bank showing she deposited it. I have the records from my broker that they gave me this check.

She has even said she would let me have them one night per weekend (it benefits her).

I have started video taping my weekends with the kids. I show them playing in their rooms at my house, playing with me, and going to the park with me to feed the ducks.

I have videos going back years of myself reading to them and showing them how to walk.

I would have to be diagnosed with PTSD, which wouldn't happen. I don't have it. Yes, there were moments I was in a lot of danger and they scared me, but the dangers I faced don't cause me nightmares.

I have collected as many awards that I've received through the years, as well as news articles to put into a portfolio.

I have been giving her money despite not being obligated by my D agreement and the fact that I was unemployed for 3 months.

As far as my mental state goes, this is what happened to me:

Went to war.
Came back to alien wife that didn't resemble at all the one I left.
Found blog on myspace stating she was divorced when she wasn't.
Used keylogger to read her messages and found she had ONS with one of her dates.
Went through devastation of that plus her telling me I had to convince her to stay in marriage.
Got pulled from flying because of my emotional state.
One month after D-day she tells me she wants a D and feels we have to get it.
I agree to no contest D, because she convinces me it is the most amicable way to split and have hope for future.
During this time she stays in contact with all her myspace "friends" and goes shopping all day Saturday and clubbing on Sat nights.
We D.
She moves to WV with kids. I follow a few days later to be near them.
I'm unemployed for 3 months, living with friends, and don't have my family any more.

War, unemployment, infidelity, divorce, moving, uncertainty, not seeing kids. That pretty much sums it up. Yes, I crashed when I saw her make out with a guy in a parking lot and my I upset my daughter because I wasn't in any condition to take her to playground like I promised. THAT killed me inside. To know that my inability to control my grief was hurting my daughter.

I sought psychiatric help at that point. Have been doing infinitely better since.

This exchange with ex W is not the norm. It was my last ditch attempt at pleading to her to come to her senses before getting nasty legally.

BA109, it's coming. I had to wait for her to move to MD before I could act because of jurisdiction issues. She didn't do so until 2 weeks ago. Things were in motion legally before then. Now I'm preparing myself for the fight, collecting documents, phone records, IMs, and a meticulous diary. I document when I call and don't get to talk to kids. I document the basic gyst of all our conversations. I document when I call and it is her parents and not the nanny watching the kids because she's "out".

I hear every one. I thank you all for your advice. I'm trying to get there. I've been a very forgiving person all my life.

As far as my exGF goes. She's getting divorced. It's not a maybe, it's happening. They both want it. I had nothing to do with their break up. I live in MD she's in Cali. No affair going on here. We're talking about having a divorce party when she comes. I'm not rushing into anything. We both know that neither one of us is willing to move from where we live. We're supporting each other through this rough time and similar situations.

BTW, the air force would not have cleared you to fly into combat if you were a nut job!!! I am SOOOOO behind our men who are fighting for everything in which we believe. One of my work colleagues son was killed in Iraq - he was only married 2 months. His FIL was higher up in the chain of command but was also in Iraq at the time of Bill's death. He was killed by friendly fire. His FIL escorted his body home. I have NEVER seen anything so moving as his funeral. The people of the city in which he grew up lined the street to the church for over a mile - both sides - with American flags. I was honored to sing at his Funeral Mass. For many days after his death, my 4 year old son and I would pray for "Sergeant Bill."

With regard to xgf, though, stay far away until you have healed - trust me on this one....

Regards,

BB

Ex won't setup her vonage phone account. I haven't bought my daughter a phone because she's four and I am afraid she'd lose it. She wouldn't know how to charge it.

I thought about buying it and giving it to the Nanny, but I wouldn't want it to be for her personal use.

I think it's ridiculous that she won't setup her vonage. It only takes a few minutes and not much more. She's had the equipment for about a month.

The nanny has no way of reaching anyone in case of emergency.

Get your kids AND/OR the nanny one of these special Kid Phones

It allows you to pre-program your number and allows 911 calls.

Hi Papa,

I have a hard time reconsiling the two persona's that are Papa. Military man, pilot, leader, hot-shot business man with impressive job.... none of this comes across with your dealings with your exW.

I study MTBI and personality types, and people 'speak' their type, in normal enviroments. They go to the opposite when extreamly stressed. Key is to figure out everyones language then to notice when they start veering off from their language. My sweet, light-hearted H gets all techincal when his world falls apart. He starts making lists and calling professionals.

What I see here is you falling to your most stressed point, giving in way too much to your emotional side. And that's not your strength, your strength is in your logical side. Key is to LOOK for the signs and pull back as soon as you see you are getting too emotional. I KNOW you are a strong, tough guy, I know from your life, but you're not using the part of your brain that got you there with your exW.

You've got to snap out of this, man! Crisp, sharp, and a little mad. She's not the person you thought she was, and she KNEW it... she mislead you. She was sneaky and manipulative, and she would have been with any H... that's her, not her reaction to you. That's just her. I know you loved her, but you will love again. She's not worthy. Someone will be! After you get all this nonsense straightened out, of course <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

Dont keep retelling this story about what happened. It's done. You need to clear your mind, stop replaying it all in your head. Yell STOP, silently, in your head, that helped me. Choose to think about different things. I have a great book, "How to stubornly refuse to make yourself miserable about anything, yes anything" by Albert Elise. You'd like it, it's about Rational Emotive Therapy, restructuring your brain-talk. I loved it!

Brit's got it all right. No more than 3 sentences at a time... What, why, when, how... move on. Get the lawyers on the phone thing, that's actionable in any court. Please take CARE of YOURSELF!!! - Dru

Brit,

Well done.

[quote]I thought about buying it and giving it to the Nanny, but I wouldn't want it to be for her personal use.
/quote]

This is a triviality if it means you have access to your children and the Nanny has a means of contacting the authorities in the event of an emergency.

GET THAT PHONE THIS WEEKEND. And that's an order!

BB

Oooh Oooh Brain fart after I posted my last message....there are these things called Fireflies that you can get kids...it only has a set number of associated phones and, I believe, can contact 911...would solve your concern around Nanny making personal calls.

BB

Why have not you file with your Attorney yet? What's your EXCUSE?

The biggest obstacle to your recovery is YOU, not WW. You are just rationalizing and making excuses for not moving on, for not accepting reality.

You need to GROW A PAIR and MAN UP.

Dru,

I am having a particularly difficult time with this when reading Papa's threads. Parts of this saga just don't add up for me. But, perhaps it is only a stress related function of our personality, as you pointed out.

I HAVE filed with an attorney, the process is slow and I had to wait for her to move to MD so we could be in the same state

Fair enough. You still need to try to move on and concern yourself less with what your WW is up to and what could have been.

You need to heal Papa, and this will not happen if you keep obsessing yourself with what your WW is doing and trying to have her come back to you. She may come back, but not if you keep acting the way you are, and the time is probably not right yet for to do so anyway.

I know for a fact that at some point your WW will definitely regret what she is now doing, but you need to move on in the meanwhile. Stop engaging her into those mindless and pointless conversations. And you should stop groveling and grasping for straw. This rarely works.

In short, accept the fact that your M IS OVER…for now anyways.

Things have actually been easier recently. There's still a sting at the idea of her becoming serious with someone else, but it is just a sting vs the devastation I used to feel from it. My greatest concern with that has always been the kids.

At the same time, the kids are their own defense. I had them all day today. I always love having them. Yet, it is exhausting, and at times can be nerve racking. To me it is just something that you deal with since it's your children and you simply have to figure out why they're crying or acting up. With someone else, though, that would be a very big challenge.

I know my ex. There will come a point where she'll be willing to leave the kdis with whoever she ends up with or she'll demand his help. I don't see too many guys out there just jumping at the chance to deal with toddlers and their challenges. It is hard work. The kind that biological parents generally are happy to do, but it is only nerve racking to someone not their parent.

It's a standard thing I've observed. If my own kid is crying, I try to concentrate on what is making him cry and try to figure it out. If someone else's kid is crying, I'm patient for a little bit but eventually get irritated by it.

This is where I worry about how another man will be around them. Will they lash out when they can't get them to stop crying? Will he yell at them? Will she put up with that? Will my kids be smart enough or old enough to reach out to me if they're being abused?

No, I don't trust my ex in any way shape or form, especially in her choices.

I could care less if she meets someone that isn't good with her. It's the kids I worry about.

Yes, the day will come she will regret and realize what kind of a man and husband she had. I stuck by her side through some terrible times and was the first out of bed when the kids cried and I was always there helping her with them in every way. There were even times when I'd tell her to go to bed and let me handle them simply so she could rest and get some sleep.

Now, I have a new job and am being thrown right into a huge project right away. I have re-established old friendships and am actually optimistic about my personal future. I've hired a lawyer who is looking out for me and will file for a modification of custody next week.

I've rebuilt the broken relationships with my family and am genearlly just moving forward.

I'm still wounded, but the wounds are starting to heal, slowly.

I dropped the kids off this morning at her place. She told me to come up on messenger tonight to talk. Asked why we couldn't just talk on the phone and she said that all we ever do is end up arguing. Says she wants to discuss visitation and what we're going to do about it.

So how do I handle this?

1. I know I have to keep cool, not get emotional, and not make the same mistakes I've made in past.

2. I know I shouldn't show signs of wanting her back on my next exchange.

3. Don't lecture or accuse.

4. Keep it totally business.

5. Give her what she wants for now. Lawyer putting in papers this week for custody modification.

That's my approach for now. I'll post the exchange on here after we're done to get opinions.

Would like some pre-game prep from anyone who may want to throw in their two cents.

Thanks