Have you changed the locks on the house???

Putting a for sale sign in the yard is eventually a good idea. Start working on fixing it up as though you do intend to sell it rather quickly. Remember to act happy not sappy. Say "yeah, I'm taking the opportunity to get some things done here I've been meaning to do...to get the place ready to sell". You want her preoccupied with what your thinking and doing not vice versa.

Time for a new haircut and some new clothes. Anytime she sees you, you should be perfectly put together and smell good. However, you hardly notice and shrug off any compliments keeping secret as to why your appearance has changed. When she does suggest a meeting appear to check a schedule and think about ALL you have to do.

Someone link Wilson to the 180 plan. This WW is ripe for some 180 changes. She wants Wilson to remain available while she attempts to get OM to leave his marriage. It's her last desparate attempt to maintain the addiction and if OM is pulling away to his wife and BH is seemingly pulling back a bit...can you say INNER TURMOIL.

Mr. Wondering

thats the best advice ive heard yet pretty smart mr w
if she feels shes losing power youve got a great shot at her waking up

Guys...it's really NOT about manipulation. This is not a power struggle but a battle inside of YOU and your marriage between good and evil.

When you TRY to manipulate the situation you are attempting to CONTROL it. You can NOT control an active wayward spouse. You can only control yourself and defeat the evilness and demons that are attacking you in this situation. You do 180 actions cause it's healthier for you and it may help attract your spouse back. It stops the bleeding of the relationship that happens when you're behaving needy, desparate and insecure. It's assuming control of your emotions to better be able to weather the storm circling around you and your family. In conclusion, it's a leap of faith and internally saying "NO" to infidelity....I am good enough, smart enough and dang nabbit...nobody is taking my spouse away from me without a calm, rational, well-conceived fight.

When you begin to control your own emotions and actions, you begin to shape the battle field in your favor. The dynamics change. Your WS begins to be concerned about you. Such concern has negative effects on her affair relationship (OP begins to become insecure and needy). And, finally, YOU begin the healing process you may need in the extreme case this all doesn't work out.

Mr. Wondering

Hmm.... For the first time ever I’m not completely in line with Mr.Wonderings advice. Although for the most part I agree then I feel that moving too fast might also send a signal of “I’m over you and don’t care any more”.

One thing that always amazes me is how long Dr. Harley encourages people to stick to Plan A. Way past the period I would think a marriage has past the “best before” time. Some cases that come to mind would be DazedandConfused and MyWifeILove. Both went through hull and back several times but stuck to Plan A with slight periods of Plan B... Both eventually recovered their marriages.

I would suggest you read these guy’s stories. I would also suggest you find the text about the carrot and the stick of Plan A (I think Pepperband wrote that). By all means move on, don’t be needy and deposit into the LB but don’t push her away.

WW called me late last night saying that she missed me and wanted us to try. She is saying again that she told OM that she can no longer see him. This is the same thing she told me last Sunday... She wants me to come to her apartment tonight to eat dinner with her and talk. I am going to go I am just afraid that it will be just like last Monday when she came home and was just as cold as when she left.

that's really good news, wilson.
Some WS's really do have a change of heart when they are in that current situation, from what I read. Dont try and get yourself down with paranoia about "what if she...?"
This really could be the start of recovery for you both.

Some may disagree with me, but I think the worst thing you could do, would be to not open your hand to her now, if she is truely reaching out to you.
It can be a "cautious" hand... you shouldnt just say "ok all is forgiven come on back in ths house". that would be very bad too. But remember, the whole point of "plan A", is to show a safe place for her to come back to, for if and when she wants to choose it.

Give her that opportunity to choose.

(and if she does, dont be surprised by things like the usual withdrawal period!)

Wilson,

You have nothing to fear except a life of crumbs if you do not take the bull by the horns. Your call, Your Choice.

It helped me to realize she was already gone, so nothing to lose there. Nothing to fear!

She had already made a choice, nothing to lose there. Nothing to fear!

Winning her back through deeds and gestures, being me, whole and complete, only controlling myself and understanding I can control no-one but me.

Nothing to fear from the above as it's already happened, so do your best, put your best foot forward.

Good Luck and Hang in there!

Mr. W. said:

"Guys...it's really NOT about manipulation."

Mr. W., do you think I was advising Wilson to manipulate his W? From my perspective as a FWW, his W is deep in the fog and he should not respond to silly little messages like the one she sent him. His W, in my opinion, needed to spend the first night on her own in her new apartment without the comfort of Wilson... she needed to experience what she was missing.

However, if she had reached out to him in a different way (instead of texting "call me if you want"), my advice would have been different.

Wilson, Mr. W. gave you excellent advice... keep working on you, your house, etc. Be strong, take care of yourself... this will work in your favor, even if things don't work out between you and your W.

Your W misses you when she leaves... this is very good. Home is just not home without you. I understand your weariness... I would worry too, because of what happened last weekend. I'm glad you're going to her place. Bring something with you, like a dessert or a nice bottle of wine.

Hopefully more folks will chime in with advice... I only have the FWW perspective and never moved out of the house. Your W's behavior is typical but hopeful... remain cautious!

KM....I was not referring to you at all. I think not calling was the right call that night.

Bigger...notice I said some "180 actions". I never recommend the full 180 plan over Plan A.

Wilson should remain fully in Plan A for now. I think he should meet her tonight and keep telling her he is fighting for his marriage. However, for a little 180 mix I believe during such meeting/dinner he could casually through in that he moved all the furniture out of the living room, dining room, bedroom...whatever and that he is setting out to paint it. WW's mind starts really humming (what is he doing, why is he doing that, is he moving on). Wilson's words only express that his marriage is his number one priority however, his actions bring to light that he is not going to sit around sulking and doing nothing awaiting WW's decision. Wilson can indicate that a couple of months from now WW will either be home enjoying with him the fix up work he's done or the house will be ready to go on the market. This is a subtle way to communicate that Wilson is a capable man (he fixes things), he's not laying in bed crying all day for WW, he's preparing to move on and able and willing to do just that in time. In essence, Wilson's entire being does not revolve around WW...she is what he wants...but he's not NEEDY and DESPARATE.

Besides...Wilson is on the roller coaster of infidelity. One day WW is nice and wants to reconcile. The next she's talking to OM and acting like an idiot again. Wilson can occupy his time in a healthy manner instead of incessant obsessing over WW. Especially if she continues to live on her own for awhile.

Wilson...my take on your current sitch. OM & WW believed that if you exposed to OM'sW that his marriage would be over. WW feeling guilty for ruining OM's marriage and desirous of maintaining her addiction felt loyalty to OM and was willing to move out and keep the affair going to comfort OM while he lost his marriage. HOWEVER, OM'sW is now apparently willing to give OM a chance. WW still moves out hoping to convince OM to stick to the plan of one day being together (the affair dream)...OM still says no, he is fighting for his marriage. So now, WW wants to come home or at least maintain YOU till something else changes. You must continue to press for No Contact and a transfer at work.

This may sound bad but it's not. You are NOT 2nd choice. You are her husband whereas OM is merely an addiction. It matters not how an addiction ends only that it ends (NO CONTACT). Then true recovery can commence after a short withdrawal period.

Good luck,

Mr. Wondering

Wilson,

Have you read Ark's lighthouse post?

~BE THE LIGHTHOUSE~


Your spouse is in huge conflict....

the good news is and the truth is that they are totally incapable of a healthy relationship with anyone right now...

the competition we believe that exist with the OP is a shallow empty reflection of Gods light in this world...

It is empty and lonely no matter how good the rush

their actions are actions that they themselves do not like in themselves right now....though the need to go back again again and attempt to prove themselves wrong or right is strong...they do not like what they are doing...

their actions towards you, the children, the OP, and themselves...keep them from engaging in any type of real interactions...with real depth and truth

all they offer are misguided attempts to fill the void that has appeared in their life...

yet the filling is way too fleeting to sustain them and the truth is with them each night he or she lays down regardless of whom is next to them....

they are the living cliche..of no matter where you go to hide...there YOU are...

he or she is lost to themselves...

and you stand at that point of being the lighthouse home....even though they create the waves that block their vision from seeing that...

You become the lighthouse..
you fill your home with light, calmness and sanctuary...

see just visualize yourself as a lighthouse...

Your offer them glimpses into that sanctuary at every chance you get...

you invite them towards it...let them know it is there as much as you can in a most subtle way....

they are untrustable right now...

but you know that...
so they can't hurt you right now...
they will spend great energy to convince others differently...but you know better...

you show the path by also protecting the children from their painful actions.....

set clear boundaries that the OP is not part of your childrens lives....

without lovebusting...
offer alternatives that let them see the children...but be clear that the OP is to have no access to them...

you fill the childrens lives with stability....they deserve it and need it more than anything else....

Do not discuss and or powerstruggle with them on irrational movements...

seek out and validate the rational ones with lots of praise for when he or she chooses correctly....

your spouse is very lonely and sad right now..but that is OK...

no one can stay very long in that chaos...it is wearisome to the soul...

and remove yourself from any aspect of participating or adding to the chaos...

and eventually they will see that you are the only one...

who stood with clarity and reason when they needed it most...

be the lighthouse....

Last night we had a good night. We went to dinner and talked most of the night. She told me that again she has told OM that she can no longer see him. I was guarded most of the night about these conversations as we did talk mostly about him, his W and our relationship. She seems to be hurt and upset with OM right now (he wants his wife back). In a weird sort of way this upsets me because I see how much WW loves him (or the idea of him). I would have thought if would have made me feel good for her to be mad at him but it did not.

As far as us, we talked about our future and how we could make things work. I gave her the book “SAA”, but I think she was a little reluctant to read it due to the title. She did indicate however that she would read it. She was also a little reluctant to write a NC letter to OM. I explained to her that it was something I really wanted and in the book there is a sample that may help. I think she will probably write the letter but she thinks it will prompt him to try and talk to her.

Last night I stayed at her apartment and we slept in the same bed. This is the first time this has happened in weeks. It felt so good to be able to hold her while we slept. Tonight she wants to come to the house, eat dinner and stay there. We discussed several things from making some changes at the house (painting, etc.) to moving and starting over somewhere else. Her job is still an issue for her since she signed a contract. It will be May before she can leave her job for another. Obviously a concern of mine is the contact she can still have with OM at her work. I am hoping that I am not on the same roller coaster that I have been on and getting ready to go back down.

I hope that this all means we are on our way through withdrawal but I guess only time will tell. Any thoughts???

wilson, I don't want to throw water on your parade, but this is rarely this simple and clean. Nor will withdrawal EVER take place until nc is instituted.

See, the OM is scared and has dumped your W for his W. FOR NOW. Your W is not done yet, though. She is still holding out hope that she can get the OM back. I would expect to see her continue to pursue him, at least for a while. This is VERY COMMON, though.

Your biggest problem is that she cannot withdraw if she is still working with him. As long as she continues to work with him, you are facing an on-again, off-again affair, I am afraid, making recovery IMPOSSIBLE. She can't withdraw if she still sees him there.

Nor would it make sense to ask her to send him a nc letter when she is going to have contact at work. This is something I would not cut corners on, wilson. We have numerous other LONG TERM affairs here because they ignored Dr. Harley's advice to end contact for life, even if it means a change of career or a move to another state.

Don't damn yourself to 5 more years of this!

Dr. Harley in Coping with Infidelity: Part 2
How Should Affairs End?


Never see or communicate with a former lover

Once an affair is first revealed, whether it's discovered or admitted, the victimized spouse is usually in a state of shock. The first reaction is usually panic, but it's quickly followed by anger. Divorce and sometimes even murder are contemplated. But after some time passes (usually about three weeks), most couples decide that they will try to pull together and save their marriage.

The one having an affair is in no position to bargain, but he or she usually tries anyway. The bargaining effort usually boils down to somehow keeping the lover in the loop. You'd think that the unfaithful spouse would be so aware of his or her weaknesses, and so aware of the pain inflicted, that every effort would be made to avoid further contact with the lover as an act of thoughtfulness to the stunned spouse. But instead, the unfaithful spouse argues that the relationship was "only sexual" or was "emotional but not sexual" or some other peculiar description to prove that continued contact with the lover would be okay.

Most victimized spouses intuitively understand that all contact with a lover must end for life. Permanent separation not only helps prevent a renewal of the affair, but it is also a crucial gesture of consideration to someone who has been through ******. What victimized spouse would ever want to know that his or her spouse is seeing or communicating with a former lover at work or in some other activity?

In spite of career sacrifices, friendships, and issues relating to children's schooling, I am adamant in recommending that there be no contact with a former lover for life. For many, that means a move to another state. But to do otherwise fails to recognize the nature of addiction and its cure.

<snip>

We don't know if R.J. still sees his lover, but he says he has broken off all contact. In many cases where a person is still in town, that's hard to prove. But one thing's for sure, if he ever does see his lover, it will put him in a state of perpetual withdrawal from his addiction, and make the resolution of his marriage essentially impossible. In fact, one of the reasons he is not recovering after three months of separation may be that he is not being truthful about the separation.

Entire article at: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5060_qa.html


Mimi wrote: Check this out from the How to Survive an Affair chapter in HIS NEEDS, HER NEEDS..one of my favorite pieces of reading material...

p. 177

...I have seen husbands build new and wonderful relationships with their wives but then go back to their lovers after five or six years of what appeared to be marital bliss. When I ask them why, they inevitably tell me they miss the woman terribly and still love her. At the same time they stoutly affirm they love their wives dearly and would not think of leaving them.

I believe a man like this has told the truth. He is hopelessly entangled and needs all the help possible to be kept away from his lover and stay faithful to his wife. I often recommend that a man once involved in an affair come in to see me every three to six months on an indefinite basis, just to talk about how things are going and to let me know how successfully he has stayed away from his lover. He must resign himself to a lifetime without her. HE MUST CERTAINLY NOT WORK WITH HIS FORMER LOVER AND SHOULD PROBABLY LIVE IN SOME OTHER CITY OR STATE. Even with those restrictions the desire for her company persists...

I strongly concur with Melody Lane

Cosigned

OM's Wife should be desirous of this also. If your wife won't go to the school trying to really push for a transfer maybe his wife can get him out of there. But, separate they must.

Also, again...don't fret over HOW the addiction ends only that it ends. Her so-called feelings for OM are not real they will only SEEM real to WW as long as OM remains real and present in her life. She can't withdraw and process this until all contact ceases. Even being in the same building is too much contact. Even if they don't talk...looking upon each other, speculating about what each glance means, obsessing over what he is thinking begs at least small contacts between the two of them. She will foreever beg and feel the need for "closure" and when they communicate to get "closure" they merely prolong the addiction with contact and then need "closure" again and again. It's just torture for both of them (and you and OM'sW) for them to be near each other.

Figure out a way...re-read the contract for an out.

Mr. Wondering

Two thoughts…

Statistically an affair is more likely to take place in a marriage where one or both spouses are unhappy. So really look into your marriage. Was there something that made WW have her affair? Something that enabled her to justify the betrayal?

Do not misunderstand this to indicate you are to blame for WW decision to have an affair. That is completely her fault.

Second: Since the HR dept is not willing to do anything would a talk to the PTA be a good idea? Pressure from parents to not have two teachers in an affair in the school?

Wilson...

Are you still around? How are things going?

We're still here if you need us... praying for you...

KM