Froz, if I wanted to be vengeful, gossipy and mean, I would spill the whole story.

This story has been on my mind a lot, lately.

My motive? More of a reminder that some people may not be whom they present themselves to be, but that if you pay attention, they will eventually reveal themselves to you. I think it's best not to get too "invested" in trusting people until you have the opportunity to see them in what they perceive to be a "safe" place where they can let their hair down, so to speak.

And, I suppose that I hold out a hope that the person involved will decide to be completely honest...and maybe come to an understanding of the cruelty of what was perpetrated and develop at least SOME empathy for how all the other parties involved were hurt.

Hi LC. Thanks for responding. I'm glad you did.



From my perspective, it appears as though the method being used to accomplish your motive is indirectly vengeful, gossipy and mean.

I felt it important to mention, as I said before - not in defense of the person to whom you are referring and not to criticize or attack, but because I think that taking a look at these methods could be something that could improve YOUR relationships.

So you stated your motive:



Are you saying that you are trying to warn someone? If so, then would you agree that your intent is not to help the person you refer to, but those that may have a false impression of that person?



Just to clarify...are you saying that you are trying to make that person feel bad so that they will understand the pain they caused?

Again, thank you for being open with me and willing to explain your position.

froz,

You ask what my motive was in "bringing it up"? Well, a previous poster asked LadyC to tell the story. She's not really wanting to, I don't think. I'm just saying why I believe she might not want to. I get the feeling she is very reluctant to say something, but would rather the person do it themselves. Probably a good idea, IMHO.

It seems to me that when it comes to truth, it is always better that it come from the horse's mouth, so to speak. Then, the "motive" cannot be questioned. I kind of see it as part of affair recovery - like when my then WH didn't want me to see his computer, his emails, etc. He was still protecting things, his secrets. He wasn't ready to let them go, the shame, guilt, I don't know......

he finally broke, finally confessed it all, opened it up.

He felt better. Then more and more began to come out, a little at a time.

Maybe this story is like that. Maybe this story is coming out over time, a little at a time, like affair stories tend to do. That's what I'm saying.

No secret "motives".

Just maybe typical behavior of an affair.

SB

Everyone and everything has a motive. Maybe purpose or goal would have been a better choice of words.



Just to be sure I'm not misunderstanding you, are you saying that the goal you were trying to accomplish was to encourage this person to share a little more about themselves and their history?


It appears as though you are trying to control that outcome.



Are you saying that you do have this person's best interest in mind and that you are trying to get them to tell their story so that they will feel better?

Clueless, telling partial truths and innuendoes does no one any good. Sort of like a newspaper headline stating "Did so-and-so beat their wife?" Even if the facts are they did not beat their wife, and even though the newspaper can say they didn't tell an untruth, the damage is done.

If you have no right to tell the story, then IMHO you have no right to spread innuendoes either. Because that leaves things up to the imagination of the reader, usually resulting in the worst possible interpretation. It isn't fair to the target of your insinuation.

My offer was to kindly listen to YOUR story if someone has hurt you. My offer does not extend to listen to malicious, unsubstantiated rumors and innuendo. If that isn't gossip, I don't know what is.

It sounds to me like you are trying to forcibly "out" someone. If you don't have a right to out them, then please stop.


I feel sad that you responded thusly to my good-faith offer. At least I am not as hurt as if I had developed trust in you... but I did apologize for thinking you were baiting... and yet it seems you were. And you are showing no regret or remorse. And you seem to think you are being wonderful in your maliciousness and cruelty. Thank you for revealing your true self, I now will have a better filter for your posts.

schoolbus:
On the other thread I was about to post a response to you... then when I couldn't find a reply box I realized it was locked.


Which basically proves the point I was about to make.

Which is, it was my opinion at the time that if I had posted ANYTHING, even something supportive to smb and tst, that it would have resulted in non-helpful posts containing sarcasm and weird noises (written and linked). That opinion was based on seeing plenty of examples. Since IMHO that would NOT have been helpful, I refrained.

But I agree with you schoolbus, fear of personal attack is not a reason to stand idly by while someone is a victim of a malicious attack.

I have no clue as to what the gossip is all about...but what I do know is that Sb is a valuable poster. what I have seen from you is support for a troll (BA) and a lack of support for some people here that needed some help(SMB and TST).

SB is a fair and kind poster.

Ya know, Froz, I've always liked you and thought you liked me, so I can't understand what your motives are in giving me the third degree. Your perspective are yours, Froz, and mine are mine. I wasn't aware that you thought I was the sort of person to be vengeful, gossipy, or mean.

Suffice it to say that yes, people should be zreful about who they trust online.

And, as far as making that person feel bad...well, I think the person's actions should make them feel bad, because I can't make them feel one way or the other about anything.

As far as I know, that person STILL does not feel badly about the actions perpetrated. As far as I know, that person has NOT been totally honest about past actions on MB, while preaching honesty to others.

As Schoolbus said, I was asked to tell the story, and I am not free to do so.

That person knows what we are talking about, and it is up to that person to come clean if he/she ever develops a conscience about that wrong-doing. If not, then that person will have to answer for it when the time comes. The karma bus may take a while, but it always comes back around.

The only other person who can tell that story is one of the victims, if the victim chooses.

That being said, "that person" is now aware of what I think, and I guess THAT is part of my motive.

It is up to that person to do the right thing.

I have no clue as to what the gossip is all about...but what I do know is that Sb is a valuable poster. what I have seen from you is support for a troll (BA) and a lack of support for some people here that needed some help(SMB and TST).

SB is a fair and kind poster

the same applies to LC...and we have not always seen eye to eye.

medc, my reply to sb was in no way a criticism of her. I apologize if it somehow seemed to be, due to my response to Clueless. I never said sb wasn't fair or valuable.

My reply to sb was me answering why I didn't post support to smb and tst. I won't bore you by repeating that answer. But it was not about sb.

And it looks as if the posts coming here to attack my posting is basically proving my point - it would have done more harm than good for me to post anything to smb's or tst's posts - even more so in the atmosphere of that time.

If we had SUPPORTED sb and her husband, would they have stayed? What would have that SUPPORT looked like? I assume that ADULTS have responsibility for taking care of themselves and that if they wanted to be here, they would have stayed. I don't understand..and I haven't kept up with the BA issues carefully..why they allowed him to make them leave this WONDERFUL FORUM..why they didn't fight for their RIGHT to be HERE...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Very eloquent medc. I have no response to that.

Have a great day!

Mimi, based on SMB's own words on this forum and extensive emails with them, i am left with the impression that yes...given more support they would have stayed.

In addition, the continued support of the obvious troll that had targeted them was at best insulting to both TST and SMB. MB became less valuable because of the coddling of trolls and failure of the board to stand in a unified fashion to fight off that foe and support a couple in need.

I DO!



Hearing you say that, I feel confused because I explained precisely what my motive is.



I completely agree with you. And it isn't my intent to make you feel as though you're getting the third degree.

If I were guessing, I would say that you believe that you have information that someone is not being genuine with other posters and that you fear that it might mislead those posters down a dangerous path? Is that correct?

If it is, what I am trying to communicate to you is that I see some alternative methods that might better help you to achieve your goal in trying to protect those you are concerned about.



Trying to force or guilt someone into doing what you think is the right thing is controlling.

I don't think you are a mean person. It isn't your motive I'm trying to bring to your attention. It's your METHOD.

The methods that people use tend to be the same methods they use in their interactions with people across the board - to get their needs met, to protect themselves, to protect others, etc...so it seems logical to me that the way that someone deals with conflict with people in general is likely to be the way they deal with conflict in their close relationships and their marriage, too.

For example, a husband that has been feeling ignored by his wife might decide to resolve that issue by making a snide comment to her, something like, "Well, you certainly don't seem to have time for ME lately."

Is that likely to inspire his wife to want to meet his needs? It certainly doesn't seem as though it would. If she did in fact decide to meet his need at that time, it would only be through making her feel bad in order to accomplish it, so the need got met, but at the expense of his wife's feelings. And his making that withdrawal doesn't help him in the bigger picture.

If I see someone that I like or care about doing something counter-productive, I prefer to bring it to their attention.

Knowing you as I do, I have found that to be true about you, as well. Many times I have seen you show care for others by piping up and offering to help or making a suggestion to someone else when the topic at hand was something you had experience with.

And using methods that hinder me and cause difficulties in my personal relationships is something that I have experience with. Thanks to others who took the time to point some of those out to me, I have since learned some new methods and would definitely share that knowledge with someone that I liked.



Maybe they don't...I don't know either. But even if they don't, it seems they would be more likely to realize the levity of pain that you can empathize with in those that have been hurt by their actions if it were done in a respectful, open manner rather than with suggestive innuendos designed to try to make them feel bad.

Someone else's wrongdoing doesn't justify open season on them. If that were the case, an awful lot of WS's would be perfectly justified in having affairs because their BS was mean to them, didn't meet their needs, etc...

Jayne,

I didn't take offense to your reply. I haven't checked into the other thread - surprised it has been locked!

I think MEDC was replying to another poster...

Anyway, I think I understand where you are coming from.

Froz,
I don't try to "control" anything. That's exactly my point. It is up to the poster to make the reveal of the self. And yes, I do believe it is in their own best interest to do so. I believe in the truth and the healing powers of the truth. Owning what we have done, allowing others to see us at our own most vulnerable, and asking for forgiveness. I see those as human traits most fragile and beautiful.

But it isn't up to me, or LadyC, or you, or anyone else to "out" someone. Or to force it. A person can state his or her own ideas on the matter. It doesn't result in "control". And maybe some posters do have strong feelings one way or the other, that is their right. The forum is for the exchange of the ideas of the posters, to gain, to grow in thought and emotion.

Personally, I think that most posters do hold something back. Because of what I do for a living, I find it is probably true of everyone, to some degree. However, it can be hurtful, destructive, even, if others rely on a person in a given context only to find that more information might show something different of him or her. I think that might be the point LadyC is making?

That's what I was trying to say. I guess I don't speak "soul", as someone pointed out awhile back ;-) JUST KIDDING!!!!!!

SB

If it isn't yours to tell, perhaps it isn't yours to hint about?

I have seen at least 2 people do this to others on the forum, and I find it offensive - hint and hint and insinuate and perhaps leave little poodle poops all around hoping that you'll catch someone sliding down and revealing their private parts?

What is your goal with this? To besmirch someone's character? Peel someone off the forum? Reveal something or some knowledge gained away from MB? Hoping that you can isolate someone so the wolves can ravage?

Here's a little opinion of mine.

There are many people who don't care what little poopy nugget you and others it seems, have smouldering in their hands while such longing to splat it about the forum burns.

I'm one of those that don't care what icky little secret you have that is just bursting through the seams to get out.


Edited to remove id

It already looks like that to me.

Let me get this straight - you think someone has to confess their "sins" (as evidently you and at least 2 others have determined) to the whole forum?

When did this forum become the church, when did it become God and when did so few get appointed as the Inquisitors? I thought we had moved past that mindset and I find it interesting in a scary sort of way to see just how thin the veneer is over the same beliefs and attitudes that we publicly pronounce so medieval.

Well, let's go right for the historical actions...

Peasant 1: We have found a witch, may we burn her?
Bedevere: What makes you think she's a witch?
Peasant 2: She turned me into a newt!
Bedevere: A newt?
Peasant 2: I got better.
Crowd: BURN HER ANYWAY!
Woman: I'm not a witch, I'm not a witch!
Bedevere: But you are dressed as one.
Woman: They dressed me up like this. And this isn't my nose, it's a false one.
~Monty Python

Edited to remove id

Post deleted by mkeverydaycnt