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Pep,
While I don't necessarily disagree with you on this subject, it boils down to YOUR personal opinion. 'Late' exposure (after the affair is ended) to the OP's spouse is unfortunately not a standard procedure endorsed by this website. At best, the opinions received via email to inquiring minds has been wishy washy, from what I've read.
The founders of this website will not offer much opinion on this matter because it is a moral issue.
What happens to be the morally correct thing to do lies in the heart of each individual.
MEDC recently inquired on this subject to the Harleys. I have not seen a response yet. Perhaps no response is their response.
ba109
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And I object VERY strongly to my wonderful H being called a wimp.
He is a strong, sensitive and wonderful man and could show most men a thing or two about being a real man. I concur with you Jen… I feel the same way about my H and also strongly object to him being called a wimp...
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MEDC recently inquired on this subject to the Harleys. I have not seen a response yet. Perhaps no response is their response. Ba109, I've asked MEDC about this and he said he didn't receive a response from Dr Harley yet. He said he doesn't know if he's going to re-send the e-mail to get a response.
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Hi Pep, did you read my response to you on StartinOver’s thread yesterday?
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Pep,
While I don't necessarily disagree with you on this subject, it boils down to YOUR personal opinion. 'Late' exposure (after the affair is ended) to the OP's spouse is unfortunately not a standard procedure endorsed by this website. At best, the opinions received via email to inquiring minds has been wishy washy, from what I've read.
The founders of this website will not offer much opinion on this matter because it is a moral issue.
What happens to be the morally correct thing to do lies in the heart of each individual.
MEDC recently inquired on this subject to the Harleys. I have not seen a response yet. Perhaps no response is their response. So your point with that is.......? Exposure is an option, like going to the doctor if you are sick. You can choose to go and if it is serious enough and you don't, you could die. Can you die IF you go to the doctor? Maybe.....either way it is a choice to seek help or not. If one does their best (including exposure) and it is done for the right reasons, then the negative feedback is less than the relief it brings to put it out in the open. The A does not do well in the light of day. It likes to lurk in the dark. To remain mysterious and illusive. It is always good to expose. The trick is exposing to the right audience. Exposing to the WS or OP is stupid. Exposure to those who have the most influence on the WS and OP is a better choice. Expose to those who can help your family and will be anti-A advocates or just to warn the other family. ....and yes, it's just my opinion. Whether or not Harley has a comment on this matter, I already have my opinion and until I hear something more convincing, that'll do. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> L.
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I’ve just send the following e-mail to Dr Harley. I’ve send it to both his and Jennifer’s (his W’s) address: Dr. Harley, approximately 3 weeks ago (on 11 August ’06), a BS on MB’ers sends you the following e-mail:
“Dr. Harley,
Thank you for a wonderful site.
There have been many discussions of late pertaining to exposure and POJA.
I have a concern that I would like to hear your opinion on. You have advocated that a BS is to be told of an A in all cases. Yet, there is a thought on the board that this should be a POJA issue between the FWS and the BS. I feel that there is a moral obligation for the FWS to make sure the affair partners spouse is aware of the A. I feel that even absent "enthusiastic agreement" from the BS that this serves two purposes: protecting your own marriage and making amends to a person that has been wronged (by both WS). I feel that the "Golden Rule" should apply here and that the OBS should be made aware of the A.
I would like to hear your thoughts on this. I would have liked to have called this question into your show but am unable to do so.
Thank you again for the valuable service you offer.
Regards,
Robert (mkeverydaycnt)”
The above poster also sends a copy of his post on the GQII board but said he has not received any response from you as off yet. I’m also very interested in your response on his post and have therefore decided to re-send the above post on his behalf in case the 1st post didn’t reach you or get lost. There are other members on MB’ers who are also interested in your response since this is a topic of debate on the GQII board for a while now.
Since I’m also unable to call in or listen to your radio show (I’m living in South-Africa) I will highly appreciate if you can respond to my e-mail address. It will be even better if you can respond directly on the board since this is a topic of general concern.
Thanks for your time and valuable service,
“Suzet” I will send his response here as soon as I receive it. However, I hope he will send his response directly to this board.
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Talked to WW last PM and when confronted she admitted to contact.Told her that I am thinking about exposure to OM work and family. I did this so she couldn't accuse me of hiding stuff from her. I explained it very well, but she didn't take it that well. Lots of fog talk, she said she would leave if I told them. Also said after I was so understanding about the contact she was ready to end it, but not now (more fog talk) Input Please??????
M: 3 times in the past. 2 ended because of her having affairs, last ended because of her verbal and physical abuse. Last marriage ended in 2018.
K:1 son (Adult and out of home) and 1 daughter (in-home 50/50)
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Suzet, I hope you do get the reply, but I wanted to let you know that I had to ask for a reply to my follow up email several times before I received an answer. Here is what Joyce Harley replied about the emails they receive: Please understand we typically do not reply individually because of the volume of inquiries. So we limit to call in and get answers or listen to hear answers. However, we are making an exception in your case. Please be patient with us. I'll talk with Dr. Harley again and make sure he sees this. And in Dr. Harley's reply, he was still general. I had asked him specifically his thoughts on me sending the letter to the OM'sW and his reply was that "I" should not make the contact. I asked him other specific questions that were not answered...he only said "This issue is not a matter of life or death to marriages."
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DavyJones,
if you haven't exposed to OM family yet, that would seem the logical next step (if OM is not married, that is, otherwise his BW would be #1 to contact of course).
Don't talk to your WW about what you're going to do.
She might warn OM, who might warn his family that you are crazy or whatever.
Don't trust your WW either..
She's still in the fog, obviously..
Any sweet talk from OM makes the fog thicker.
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Talked to WW last PM and when confronted she admitted to contact.Told her that I am thinking about exposure to OM work and family. I did this so she couldn't accuse me of hiding stuff from her. I explained it very well, but she didn't take it that well. Lots of fog talk, she said she would leave if I told them. Also said after I was so understanding about the contact she was ready to end it, but not now (more fog talk) Input Please?????? COOL! Now she can forewarn the OM so he can go tell his boss and his family that there is "some jealous, insane nutjob named DavyJones who imagines everyone is having affairs with his wife!" So, when you do call, you will have been so thoroughly discredited they will laugh and hang up. Can't think of a better way to completely disarm yourself!
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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And I object VERY strongly to my wonderful H being called a wimp.
He is a strong, sensitive and wonderful man and could show most men a thing or two about being a real man. I concur with you Jen… I feel the same way about my H and also strongly object to him being called a wimp... And I concur with Kiwi and Suzet....I strongly object that you, Pep, are calling my H a wimp. He is a very strong caring man. I'm sorry that you feel the "right" to make judgements on someone that you do not even know.
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DavyJones,
unless you have done so already:
I would advise you to start your own thread about this.
With a subject like
How to obtain no contact
or something..
The discussion in this thread seems to have little room for your question.
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And I object VERY strongly to my wonderful H being called a wimp.
He is a strong, sensitive and wonderful man and could show most men a thing or two about being a real man. I concur with you Jen… I feel the same way about my H and also strongly object to him being called a wimp... And I concur with Kiwi and Suzet....I strongly object that you, Pep, are calling my H a wimp. He is a very strong caring man. I'm sorry that you feel the "right" to make judgements on someone that you do not even know. And I strongly object that you ****** someone's husband and won't tell her so she can get STD testing. I strongly object that your H, another victim, doesn't see fit to warn a fellow victim, but so what? I don't have the "right" to not be offended any more than you do. I am sorry you feel the "right" to make judgements on those who object to your ******behavior. So sorry...
Last edited by Justuss; 08/31/06 11:30 AM.
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And I object VERY strongly to my wonderful H being called a wimp.
He is a strong, sensitive and wonderful man and could show most men a thing or two about being a real man. I concur with you Jen… I feel the same way about my H and also strongly object to him being called a wimp... And I concur with Kiwi and Suzet....I strongly object that you, Pep, are calling my H a wimp. He is a very strong caring man. I'm sorry that you feel the "right" to make judgements on someone that you do not even know. And I strongly object that you ******* someone's husband and won't tell her so she can get STD testing.I strongly object that your H, another victim, doesn't see fit to warn a fellow victim, but so what? I don't have the "right" to not be offended any more than you do. I am sorry you feel the "right" to make judgements on those who object to your ****** behavior. So sorry... *************EDIT************
Last edited by Justuss; 08/31/06 01:10 PM.
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[
MelodyLane, was I addressing you or your comments? No, I don't think so...so sorry. But I was addressing yours! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I am "offended" when people lie to me only to get approval: 2BNormal#3058622 - 07/17/06 05:47 AM
I couldn't stop crying! It was then that I told him that the OM1's W NOT KNOWING has been weighing heavily on me too. I told him what happened on MB and how I just don't know what the right answer is. He told me that if this is bothering me so much, then I must have my answer and we should tell her. We talked about praying over this for a few days before proceeding. And we also talked of different ideas on how to tell her.
I've spent much time in prayer and the very next day I read this verse in
1 Peter 3:13-15
Who is going to harm you if you are eager to do good? But even if you should suffer for what is right, you are blessed. "Do not fear what they fear; do not be frightened." But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord......
It left me crying as I felt God was telling me...."What and who am I afraid of for doing what is right? And for doing what pleases Him?"
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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2BNormal, thanks…I will send follow up e-mails if necessary. I hope he will make an exception in my case too. I also send Dr Harley another e-mail today regarding my specific situation. Here it is: Dear Dr Harley,
I’ve send you an e-mail earlier, but in addition to that post, I will also appreciate your feedback and opinion on the following please:
I’m a FWW who was involved in an online EA a few years ago. The EA was never exposed to OM’s W. Recently the EA was resumed for a period of one day (massive e-mail exchanges) before I confessed to my H and send a 3rd NC letter to OM. I still work at the same company than OM due to personal circumstances and accidentally see him or bump in him now and then.
I value your opinion and would like to receive an answer from you regarding POJA and exposure in a situation where the BS doesn’t approve and agree on exposure to the OPS at this stage due to personal circumstances, reasons, fears and concerns.
Since exposure to both BS’s and POJA in an M and to get the BS’s “enthusiastic agreement” are both important - what about a situation where the BS doesn’t agree and approve on exposure to the OPS in a situation (like mine) where the A has ended, but where the FWS still risks contact from the OP and therefore stays vulnerable for a resumption of the A?
Must the FWS honors and submits to the BS and not expose without the BS “enthusiastic agreement” or must the FWS do the morally right thing and expose and make amends to the OPS anyway (by using "Radical Honesty" with the BS) without the BS’s agreement and approval? Especially after a recent betrayal by the FWS where contact was broken (by the OP’s instigation) and a resumption of the A occurred?
I will not be able to listen or phone in on your radio program (live in South-Africa), so I will appreciate if you can respond to my e-mail address please.
Thanks in advance. I will appreciate your time and opinion very much.
“Suzet” I will send the response on this one too as soon as I get an answer from him.
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Orchid,
I completely agree with the strategy of exposure. I understood the topic to be affair exposure to an unknowing 'victim' after the affair is already dead and also to safe guard NC. I'm sure the topic will become much broader than that.
I think this topic would be better absorbed by WS's if Harley advocated this 'better late than never' approach as a means to safe guard NC. That is a legitimate marriage building strategy.
This topic usually tends to lean towards the unknowing 'victim' spouse's right to know, IMO. Harley doesn't go there.
ba109
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ba109, this topic is about and is generated by cases on here where the affair ended years ago but there has been continual[ed] contact over the years. [Suzet has sent no less than THREE nc letters and has resumed her affair at least once]
Dr. Harley has already commented on long dead cases and said that he "always recommends exposure" to the BS even if the affair is long dead. This is an exercise from a pack of waywards who are looking for rationalizations to NOT expose to their victims. Harley DOES go there and responded to 2BNormal on the radio and commented on the penaltykill case [4 yrs dead] on the radio.
So don't be fooled by the "interest" in Dr. Harley"s opinion. It is generated by some who are looking for cover who already know full well what he said. They just didn't like the answer they got are looking for OTHER answers.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I am "offended" when people lie to me only to get approval: 2BNormal#3058622 - 07/17/06 05:47 AM
I couldn't stop crying! It was then that I told him that the OM1's W NOT KNOWING has been weighing heavily on me too. I told him what happened on MB and how I just don't know what the right answer is. He told me that if this is bothering me so much, then I must have my answer and we should tell her. We talked about praying over this for a few days before proceeding. And we also talked of different ideas on how to tell her.
I've spent much time in prayer and the very next day I read this verse in
1 Peter 3:13-15
Who is going to harm you if you are eager to do good? But even if you should suffer for what is right, you are blessed. "Do not fear what they fear; do not be frightened." But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord......
It left me crying as I felt God was telling me...."What and who am I afraid of for doing what is right? And for doing what pleases Him?" You have a right to feel however you like. If I were going to go to that extreme to lie to get "approval", I would have lied and said I mailed the letter to further gain this "approval" you claim I was seeking. However, I came back and told that my H and I have decided to not mail the letter. I didn't have to come back at all to say what I did either way, but I chose to tell what was decided.
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