EARTH TO MIKE! What WERE you thinking, friend?? I can't believe you CODONED her contact with her affair partner and hope you realize what a bad idea this was. I would also tell her you made a dreadful mistake in doing this and it won't happen again. Nothing short of NO CONTACT will suffice.

As far as snooping, the only reason she "resents" it is because she HAS SOMETHING TO HIDE.

Mike, please stay away from this MC. She is helping your wife promote her affair agenda and they are ganging up on you making YOU the bad guy here. Do you see this? I suspect she is one of these man-hating counselors who believe that all women are victims and all men are oppressors. Regardless, she is not your FRIEND, but your enemy.

miketc -

I third what Owl and ML have told you.

Your MC is setting you guys on the road to sure divorce. IMO, just further proof that what people say here is true - that most MCs are really divorce counselors.

We dropped our first MC for a number of reasons. My primary reason was that he was pushing me to kick her out (separate) because NC was not being established.

You are in a war. This is not the time to seek the easy way out, and (again, IMO) separation is the easy way out. My counselor supported separation because he was concerned about the emotional abuse I would continue to take as long as my wife was in the house and contact was ongoing. My view on it was that, since I was in a war, I was going to have to accept some level of damage to get where I wanted to be.

This does not mean be a doormat. Stand up for yourself, put boundaries in place and enforce them. If there is anything I could do over again after D-Day, it would be boundaries, and especially enforcement of them. I let my wife run roughshod over me early on because I was a) afraid of losing her (I already had) and b) I figured if I showed a kinder, gentler HB she'd see I was the logical choice.

That gained me several months of frustration, hurt and anger. What I should have done, what people advised me to do, was stop enabling her in maintaining contact.

Does she have a cell phone she uses to maintain contact? Is it in your name? Kill or suspend the service. Does she use e-mail to contact him, and do you have internet at home? Kill it. Do you watch the kids so she can go out with him? Don't.

The important thing to remember is that only she can choose to go NC. Only she can maintain it. The responsibility is on her shoulders. Sure, you can help, especially down the road if she'll open up to you. But the desire for NC has to come from within her.

If she threatens you with divorce, let her do all the work. From what I've seen on these boards, most WS' threaten and holler about it, but very few ever follow through.

Listen to the advice you get here. Seek out a qualified MC that specializes in Marriage Recovery, not Marriage Dissolution.

Thanks for all the supports; you guys don’t know how many I appreciated it. I had read SAA and now started on His needs, her needs. I agreed that separation is not in my cards right now, maybe after a good & long Plan A.

I’m on Plan A right now, but it’s so hard when WW is not letting you in. I know I have to keep at it, but she finds the carrot side of Plan A pretentious, smoother and irritated. On the stick side, the more I disclose or confront her with N/C and disclosure, the more it appears to push her toward and confide on the OP. The more I confront her with my facts, the more she’s closing in on how I found out her methods of contact. She uses her work phone, work email, new hotmail/yahoo accounts and get on the net at our local library. She’s avoiding our home computer thinking that it may be bugged.

I need advise in enforcing my boundaries (exposure). I only have her Dad (mom passed away) and two girl friends that maybe (big maybe) able to help in talking to her about staying focus on our marriage. These three people already know how screw up she is and told her so number of times. I have not told my DD (8yo) and DS (6yo), may need a little advises here because they are so young and may not understand. All other friends or family members really are not going to be able to or willing to help. Some of them even thinks that exposure are mean and revengeful on my part; some even support her why she got into the A. If I disclose her to her boss about using her work email and phone for A, she may lose her job which I really don’t want that to happen. Secondly, I don’t even know her boss.

WW called me today on her way home from work. She's asking (begging) me to give her a separation without me causing more exposure. If keeping her home by threaten exposure the right thing to do? I have threatened her that I’ll contacting very distant friends and family members about her A if she continues contact. I have not done enough Plan A and she is having a major withdrawn. The OP actually no longer want the A to continue but WW just doesn’t want it to end. Need advice.

I'd suggest not even discussing the issue of exposure with your WW. If the subject comes up, simply indicate that you will do whatever you think is necessary to save your M, without detailing whether or not exposure forms part of your plan.

Man and others,

That's what I'm doing right now, by talking about our M as little as possible. I just keep saying that I don't do separation or DV. I'm not going to help you destroy our family.

She told me this morning that:

1. I want a separation from you. (So she could pursuit the OP because he does not want contact with her right now.)
2. You're traping me in this marriage by the threat of exposure to our kids' school teachers and their friends parents. You will distroy our kids if you expose to these people.
3. I'm not going to tonight's MC or in the future.
4. You got to let me go because I'll never going to love you again.

I'm thinking about talking to my kids (S6yo & D8yo) about their mother's A.

Need help and support desperately.

Mike, you cannot stop her from leaving. What she wants is to leave and carry on her affair without being exposed. Let her know that you will make sure everyone knows what she is doing if she leaves for her affair. In fact, you should call the OM's wife today and let her know what is going on.

Let your W also know that she cannot take the kids, cannot expose the kids to her sleazy affair, and cannot take family money to finance her affair. Let her know that she will still be required to pay her share of the family bills.

She needs to know that you will make it very hard for her and will NEVER hide her affair for her.

Are you keeping the OM's wife informed of all this?

p.s. And don't "threaten" to expose her affair, but PROMISE her that you "will not hide her affair." That is the ONLY PROMISE you will make. And leave it at that! Don't say anything more.

MelodyLane,

Thanks, you're great. But saying that "I will not hide your affair" means to her that I'm in threaten mode and being revengeful.

No, the OP is not married. I talk to him a couple days ago and he assure me that he understand now that any contact whether it's kind or hostile toward her will only ignite her disire for further contacts. He also told me that he'll not be taking her calls/contacts. I think WW was having a major attack yesterday because the OP is not taking/hanging up/returning her calls. She said that she can't deal with the N/C boundry that I setup. She thinks by me agreed on the separation, she could persuade him to change his mind.

It doesn't matter how she translates it.

She will read from the WS script no matter WHAT you say.

What works as a threat is better as a reality.

Something to think about.

But you are not "threatening," you are PROMISING! Tell her you are not making a "threat" but a PROMISE to never ever hide her affair. promisepromisepromisepromisepromise! Got that?

If she doesn't like it, then she should stop doing things she doesn't want exposed. She can call it "revenge" or a cow patty, it makes no difference. REAL SIMPLE!

Thanks noodle and Lane,

Got it. promisepromisepromisepromisepromisepromise!
This is so hard.

I thinking about informing my kids (D8 & S6) on their mother's A and how she's destroying our family. Any recommendation?

Mike, if she leaves to pursue her affair, you will want to tell your kids why she left. But hopefully it won't come to that.

Mel's advice is dead on the money here.

Don't back down, don't try to protect her from the consequences of her choices. If she chooses to continue/pursue the affair, then you will pursue the actions that you KNOW are required to end the affair.

No point in even talking with her about it. It's non-negotiable.

Mel & Owl, You guys are keeping on course. Thank you so much.

Steady as she go with MB principles.

Thanks again.

Updates:

At MC last night, WW wanted to file for DV but counselor convinced her to at least wait till after the New Year for the kids sake and she agreed. I stressed that I’m still holding my boundaries and MB principles in tack. We agreed that we’ll stay at the house together until the New Year at which time we can then decide what to do. She does not want me to plan anything with her nor should I try to touch or be nice to her during this time.

Our MC asked that we be civil and away from each other (at least for now) for the sake of the kids. MC privately told me that I should just leave her be and let her A dead in its nature course given that the OP wants nothing to do with the A. The more resistance I put up (snooping & exposure), the more she wants to pursuit the A. It also will give her the excuse and ammunitions to file for DV or have a separation.

Comments and what should be my next course of actions.

Mike, do you know who Dr. Willard Harley is? He is probably one of the successful marriage counselors in the US. He is a licensed psychologist with 30+ years of SUCCESSFUL experience. He is the author of numerous best selling books and has a radio show every day.

He is PRO-Marriage. On the other hand, your MC is NOT pro-marriage. The advice she is giving you is meant to facilitate a DIVORCE, NOT SAVE A MARRIAGE. She does not understand infidelity and is giving you BAD ADVICE.

For example, telling you to ignore your wife at a time when she is already extremely DETACHED is very bad advice. It was DETACHMENT that led to the affair in the first place. So, how in the world can more detachment be the solution? Your w will only want to stay in your marriage if you give her a REASON TO DO SO. And ignoring her will not achieve that.

Mike, I implore you to dump this useless MC and stick to Marriage Builders principles. There are no guarantees, but at least you have some CHANCE with them, whereas with your MC, you will only end up divorced. You are seeing a DIVORCE COUNSELOR!

Mike,

Listen to Mel. You WW is for all practical purposes a selfish, entitled, angry, resentful, bitter, child and you need to treat her that way. Plan A for now, be prepared for Plan B and Plan D if necessary. Let her know that you do not believe in D and you know that this M can be saved but if push comes to shove you will protect you and yours from her behavior and attitude. Don't elaborate on this, let her figure it out. She needs to suffer some consequences of her decisions. Don't respond to her attempts to pick a fight or argue.

Your MC is mediating an amicable divorce...that is the nuts and bolts of her advice.

This MC can't help you.

And this is pure bullcrap and more proof that this MC doesn't understand the dynamics of infidelity. The only thing that will motivate her to leave ["give her an excuse"] is an AFFAIR. She has wanted to leave to pursue her affair!

Your marriage can survive some temporary anger over exposure/interference; it CANNOT SURVIVE an ongoing affair. Exposure is RUINOUS to affairs and THAT IS WHY YOUR WIFE IS SO SCARED OF IT!