People will swear on anything when it’s convenient to do so. I am afraid you are a little naïve on this point.

Let’s take a closer look at the facts. Here are some of the “reasons” for believing SF has not occurred.

1. Your WW tells you so. (We both know WSs are notorious liars!)

2. Your WW swears that she has not done this. (We both know WSs are notorious liars!)

3. You (desperately deep down inside) want to believe otherwise. Our hope and wish are not evidence of anything, but only reflect our mental and emotional states at the time.

I don’t know if I miss any other “reason”, but this is what I can glean from what you posted.

Here are some reasons to believe that SF has occurred.

1. A woman rarely leaves her husband when an A is the caused without it being a PA. Very rarely!

2. If the A was only EA at the time that she left her husband, it will soon turn into a PA once she separates from her husband. This always happens. Read this board or other infidelity board. (But maybe you think that your situation is different; it’s not!)

3. Your WW and OM, just like you, are humans. They get horny and they are “in love”. Why would they not consummate the SF? Because of OM’s goodwill? Come on, if you are relying on OM’s goodwill towards you, you have something else coming.

4. Why would your WW give up so much if she did not intend to go all the way?

5. OM is a physical instructor, and thus I assume has high testosterone. You really believe he will refrain from PA?

I could go on, but let’s leave it here for now. Why am I so concerned about this? Not because of the SF itself, as it makes little difference to what you are doing. I am concerned with your chances of having a successful relationship in the future, whether it’s with your WW (if she becomes your W again) or with someone else. Here is the point: if you do not become less gullible, women will run roughshod over you in your next relationship(s). Women do not respect men they can walk over, and if you are willing to believe all kind of nonsense a woman may spew on you, you subject yourself to being walked on. And when they walk on you, they will blame you for easily believing their lies.

A married friend of my wife, a woman, was recently involved in an A. As per course she blamed her husband for everything, including the fact that he was so gullible and naïve not to have known that she has been cheating on him. On this last point, I have to agree with her. His wanting to believe her despite evidence to the contrary, of course, does not excuse her action, but the fact remains that it contributes to her lack of respect for him and her running roughshod over him. It is this that I don’t want to happen to you in your future relationship(s).

When you are ready for relationship, study the dynamics of relationship. Among other things, learn not to be too trusting of others merely because they say so or because they “swear” on it. Remember, actions speak louder than words and concrete evidence is more reliable than a person’s claims.

For a relationship to work, a woman must respect her man. It is hard for her to do so if she finds him gullible.

My $0.02 cents.

Your Plan B is going well otherwise.

All,

I know 2X4s were coming with my last post. Swear on the kids is my asking because that is the only way I could get the truth out of her. She would not swear on the kids on anything else when I asked her to.

Like hopeandpray is saying, she did/didn’t is the same; it sicken me and my actions are the same; I treat her as if she’s having a sexual relationship. I’m Dark as can be and my boundaries are up.

Following is my additions to my PBL, please comment:

2/28/2007

Hon,

I’m sorry if I misinterpret your meaning of “He’s out of the picture.” the other night but I cannot and will not be involved with you on any matters until he’s totally out of the picture. This means permanently separated from us and no contact for life. You know as well as I do that we cannot build our New marriage if he is involve and it hurts me tremendously to watch from the sideline. I did not sign up for this roller coaster ride and I’m asking you to keep me out of it until you’re ready to commit to our New marriage and family. When you’re ready and if I still have the same feelings for you as I have today, I will be there to meet your every needs and build the New marriage better than before.

Please respect my request on this as my earlier letter.

Mike

Mike:

My wife swore on a bible that she had not had sex with the OM. On a Bible! Now I got the bible out because I wanted to try and find out more information than I already knew. One of the things I knew is that my wife said she would never lie with her hand on a bible. One the other hand I already knew that she did have sex with the OM and I had proof.

So she lied to me with her hand on the bible. About a week later when things were coming to a head I asked her about lying with her hand on the bible and she said she would never lie with her hand on it. I filed for divorce and had her served. She came to me and I told her I had filed for Divorce so she would not have to lie with her hand on a bible anymore. She then found out I had pictures of him at my house and even a video of them together in my own bed.

When she saw that of course she could no longer deny it. My point is when a person is trying to hide an affair you can tell when they are lying, because their lips move. Women do not move out have another boyfriend on the side and then have morality to not sleep with the other person.

I am sure my XW cannot believe what she did but she did it. She never and I mean never told the truth about anything regarding her affair and especially when it concerned the sex.

No need for a new Plan B letter. Your WW knows what she needs to do. She is just pulling your leg as all WSs do. At most, resend the original PBL with no further comment added.

UVA, I resent PBL with a short addition letter.

It was another bad day during kid exchange:

As usual, I stay in the family room when WW arrived to drop off the kids (D9/S7) for the week but after she dropped off the kids belongings the kids didn’t come inside. I waited about 5-10 minutes before I went to the front door; that’s where I heard the kids crying in the driveway asking her not to go. I told her to bring the kids inside because the kids haven’t been feeling well and its cold outside (I know I broke Plan B). She ended up staying for about an hour to claim them down and the kids cried the entire time. They want her home and us a family again, etc... I stay in the family room almost the entire time because I don’t want to be the person that pulls the kids from their mother; I want her to leave the kids by herself. This is the first time the kids cried about our separation and it was gut wrenching.

After WW left, the kids claimed down a bit and I went to pickup my mother; she stays over and baby sit for me while I’m at work. The kids both fell asleep when we got home around 8:30pm and I put them to bed. They were tried and not feeling good from their cold to begin with. Poor kids!!

I hope WW sees what she's putting her kids thru but I thinks its status quo for her so our saga continue. WW still says that she’s coming back to the marriage after she slowly leaves the OP; they tried cold turkey before and that didn’t work (WW fog talking again).

Life sucks but Dark Plan B continues!!

Need advice:

I’m about to take a much needed one week vacation using my family’s two week Vacation Club. I also found out my WW has booked the balance week for my in-law without telling me. She’s not using it for herself or the kids and she don’t have the time to use it, so she figure that she just give it away to her folks instead. I just paid the maintenance charge for the Vacation Club and I believe my in-law is most likely financing and enabling her because she haven’t talk about needing money lately.

After I come back from my vacation, I’m going to cancel the in-law’s vacation and book an additional vacation for myself. I don’t really want to hurt my in-law but I’ll not enable her in anyway. What would you do if you’re put into similar situation?

This is within your control and the WS booked something without your knowledge? Hm....

If you need to take that extra week take it but know that maybe the in-laws were taking to take your children? Or maybe they needed a break from the WS?

Might be worth letting them have the vacation for the week after you let them know you just booked it for yourself and then found out the WS had booked it for them. Talk to them about it and see their true feelings and reaons for the vacation.

Depending on how you play this out, you could turn this around to your advantage even if it means giving them a free week.

JMHO,
L.

My kids have school so they're not taking them. They found cheap air and the hotel is free (on the BS). My WW wants to get on their good side by giving them a vacation on my expense.

Advice anyone?

Latest:

Just came back from a one week vacation and back into the thick of my WS’s A. It was relaxing but I just missed having my family around especially the kids. A few days after I came home, I booked a one week vacation in the summer for the entire family; me, kids & WS. I know if WS doesn’t go, it just goes to waste but that’s what I did. According to our intimidator, she seems to be surprised that I bought a ticket for her without asking and she is excited about the trip (we took the same trip a couple years ago and she loved it). She said that she will go since she will be working to come back to our marriage on the first of May. My kids’ passport will expired before our travel day and the length of time it takes to get them so we met up at our county office to apply for them.

Afterward, I asked her about May and her plans. She said that she’ll be back on the first of May but she need to resolve her issues with the OP during these three weeks. I told her I don’t understand why it would takes three weeks if she already decided that she’ll be back but she could only tell me it is very hard for her and she needed the times to prepare herself mentally. I told her, my assumption is that she still in her A and I assumed that she’ll not be back until I see actions indicate otherwise.

I then asked about her booking my in-law with our vacation club without my consent. I told her that she needs to find her folks another accommodation since I can’t support her during her A. She said it only three more weeks before she comes back but I told her it’s the consequence of her prolonging her A. I told her if she cuts the A short then I wouldn’t have a problem with the club, if not, she needs to explain to her folks why they can’t use the vacation club. She was mad as can be and sped away.

After midnight, WS called and said she broke it off with the OP because she can’t bear to tell her folks why the hotel was cancelled. We talked for about 2 hours but she was pissed and resentful because I was forcing her into cutting it short. At the end she said that she will cancel her folk’s vacation club arrangement because she can’t cut her A short. Truthfully, I don’t have high hopes that she’ll be back into our marriage willingly on May 1st with her latest demeanor.

Any thoughts?

A few thoughts since you asked....

Lousy plan B.
Plan B does not involve vacations together.
Plan B does not involve meeting at the county office.
Plan B does not involve asking her about her plans after May.
Plan B does not include 2 hour phone conversations.
Plan B does not include threats of exposure to parents. (plan A does include ACTUAL exposure....)

So basically, your wife has you on hold until May -- and you're going along with it.

Nice deal for her. Don't expect it to change.

Why are you talking to your WW when she hasn't agreed to your PBL conditions? You are at high risk for a false recovery when she comes back because she knows that she can still manipulate you into breaking the conditions of your PBL as long as she gives you some crumbs. If she doesn't agree to all the conditions of your PBL, you do not talk to her, and she does not come home. Otherwise, when you've been back together for two months and things ain't peachy, guess who she's start up with again?

I got the ticket for her because its small sum to pay and the hotel is the same regardless she goes or not. I would not let her go if she still in her A, I just trash the ticket. I talked to her because she said she broke it off with the OP or else I would have hung up on her. I met up with her because I need her to file for the kid's passports together; both parents need to be there in person with the kids, it takes about 2-3 months to get them in.

I'll not let her come home until I'm sure she's no longer in her A and demonstrate she’s could be trusted with our family and marriage. I know I was not at my best Plan B with some of the other stuff.

I would just go back to being dark and resend the plan B letter. If she comes back on May 1st, then she has to agree to the conditions. If not, then you stay dark. You've come this far. Don't waste a perfectly good plan B by getting a little too eager.

Say what?

I think you totally undermined your Plan B and need to deal with that somehow before you can go back to it. Negotiating over when she's going to stop the affair--not plan B. I would tell her that if she wants to continue the affair, you're going to cancel her ticket and resume your communication blackout. Maybe preface it with something like "I reached out to you because I thought you might be having some second thoughts, but I see that things have not changed."

There, I edited it to read what she really meant.

I agreed with you all about cake eating even if it hurts others, but at this time there is nothing I could do about it other then goes back to dark Plan B. I do need a lot of help when she does come back the next time she said that the A is over. How should I handle it so I’m not in this predicament again or falls into false recovery? My PBL’s conditions are that she needs to be no longer in the A and establishes no contact with the other person then we could discuss our marriage and relationship.

During our conversation last weekend, when she said she broke it off with the OP and she asked me what now? I was lost since I really don’t have a plan for recovery. Please help this lost soul and point me into the right direction.

You might want to have a session with the Harleys at this point. No contact letter, establish extraordinary precautions to prevent any contact, begin spending 15 hours per week together.

That's where it begins. It sounds like she's not ready for it, though.

Ok -- which is it?

A) WS called and said she broke it off with the OP

or

B) she said that she will cancel her folk’s vacation club arrangement because she can’t cut her A short.

So she broke it off, but she can't cut it short???????
My opinion is that she was handing you another load of crap to keep you strung along awhile longer.

Mike, why can't you go 100% dark and let it work?
And why are you worried about recovery when your WW hasn't even ended her affair???

Lexxxy.

Right now she's in B) and I'm 100% dark. I'm only anticipating when she call the next time (May 1st??) telling me that her A is over and will establish N/C with the OP, what should I do and said then. Like sdguy is saying, I don't believe she's ready for recovery.