Ouch...

Well, I know you're not going to like this, but this is why you needed to enforce those boundaries BEFORE letting her back. That's why we tell people that are in plan B to ignore what a WS SAYS...that before they allow the WS back into their lives the WS has to demonstrate their willingness to meet those boundaries by what they DO.

My guess is that you would resume plan A. Continue to expose to family/friends/etc... that she remains in contact with OM AGAINST YOUR AGREEMANT for letting her back into your house. Let them put pressure on her to end contact. You can also resume the 'carrot' of plan A again too. But here's the problem...you're plan A is now undermined by your allowing her back without having the boundaries enforced. It's going to be far, far harder to keep plan A from turning into plan 'doormat' this time. Because she walked all over your boundaries already, she's not going to see any reason to respect them now.

I SERIOUSLY recommend you work this out with a professional MC. Given your situation and description of your WW's current attitude and behavior, I don't think you're going to get the help you need just from the forums. Honestly, I think you're in more precarious shape now than you were before she came back. You're going to need some serious guidance to help you, friend.

To clarify what I meant about enforcing boundaries BEFORE the WS comes back means:

Have the WS setup counseling, not the BS. The WS must attend at least one session jointly with the BS before the WS is allowed to move back in.

NC- The WS must send an NC letter, pre-approved by the BS, to the OP...and that letter must be copied to the BS so that there is PROOF that the request for NC has occurred. Again, this should happen BEFORE the WS moves back in.

Openness and honesty- the WS must explain all avenues of how the A was conducted, and help the BS to SEE those aspects of the WS's life to allow them to now see that the WS is being honest and maintaining NC with the OP. Again, BEFORE they're allowed to move back in.

Get the idea? Because this wasn't followed, you've lost your 'trump' of letting the WS back into your house and life. She's now back to fence-sitting/cake-eating...she's got the benifit of being married and still maintaining contact with OM...she's not 'suffering' anything to maintaining that contact.

Tell her that she needs to send a NC letter to OM stating NC for life.

If she refuses...

Re-expose that she is contacting OM and blatantly not living up to your conditions for letting her back in the house. Expose to her parents, family, friends, OM's parents and family, etc.

Set up a meeting with her boss and HR to inform them that your WW is using her work phone and email to facilitate her affair and you expect them to do something about it.

If she continues, force her out of the house and go back to plan B.

I would also contact OM, and tell him you know about their conversations and stay the he11 away from your WW.

Owl and Jim,

I know I shouldn’t let her back in the house before all requirements are met but my feeling got the best of me. You guys were dead on with your advice to look at her actions than her words. This is the worst mistake that I made and now I need to deal with it as best as I can.

I met with MC today alone since she was a no show; as suggested by you guys and her that I’m should go back to Plan A with unconditional love, no demanding requests and judgments. I will continue snooping and hope that she gets over her withdraw; I will expose and contact her work if she establishes contact again. I feel she’s trying to establish N/C but just too weak to fulfill them, from what I see the OP is trying as well but still not acceptable. I’ll keep you guys posted.

Thanks,

Well, it started to make sense now, WW asked me for a DV last night. I told her I’m not interested in DV talk; that’s what my atty is for. I also suggested if she wants to carry her A, she should leave the house. She sounds like she’s been advised by an atty of not leaving our home so my situation is dire. She said that she doesn't want to be in an apartment again, if she move, it will a place of her own. The only way that she could do that is from a DV settlement. I need support and advise from you guys today. Help!!

This is why you don't let them back in before they agree to your plan B conditions. I would get with an attorney. I would separate your finances so that you alone are in control of 3/4 of your finances, and hold her accountable for talking on the phone, emailing, going out with other men, etc. I would start documenting who watches the kids, etc., preparing for a custody battle.

Other than that, I would tell her flatly that you will not agree to a divorce, and that you know she wants out of the marriage right now, but with some time and effort, things will be better. Right now she does not want to be the bad guy, so she is going to try and convince you to say, "sure, I want a divorce too. Let's make this amicable." Don't fall for it.

Jim,

Thanks for being here for me, I really appreciate it.

Since I just come out of a four month Plan B, attorney and finances are secured. I think she has limited if not all contacts with the OP so she could said to me and others that the DV was not about him; it’s about she’s no longer in love with me. How could I hold her accountable to all those things if she wouldn’t let me have them in the first place? I could snoop and snoop but what do I do if there is contact? I have threatened to put all her belongings in the driveway and lock the doors (she doesn’t have the keys) if there is contact but I’m fear that she’ll call the cops. She knows her legal right and doing so will hurt me if we have to go thru a custody battle.

I will never break down and go along with an amicable divorce.

She can't love you right now because she is still in withdrawal from OM. It won't end until 6 months after there is NC. So, make sure there is NC. If there is contact, make there be consequences. Re-expose everytime there is contact. If she contacts OM via cell phone, shut off her service. If she contacts OM from her work, expose to her employers. If she contacts him via email, turn off the internet.

As far as her stating that she doesn't love you anymore, you need to try and listen to her and understand her. Tell her you understand that she doesn't anymore and that she doesn't think she can, but you know in your heart if you keep trying things will improve. Keep trying to give her hope and let her know that she shouldn't feel bad for not loving you, that it will come back in time and she's worth waiting for. Also, the best thing for you children is you two to have a happy marriage so you are going to do everything possible to make that happen.

Jim, Thanks for your advise.

Update:

Yesterday WW called me at work and wanted to talk but I was in the middle of a meeting so I told her that I’ll call her back. When I finally got back to her, she was busy ferrying my DS7 to his tutoring and day activities for my DD9 and her friends. We decided it’s best to talk after the kids are in bed.

All day I have the feeling that she has asked her attorney to file for DV and wanted to give me the heads up that I’ll be served. It was gut wrenching for me to said the least.

Finally we got to talk and she told me that she wants to know how I feel about our current situation and wanted to give us a chance to work on us without the OP in the picture. I told her that I still want to make our marriage work and N/C needs to be established in order for that to happen.

She told me that she has been in phone contact with OP the last two days but they both knew deep down that these contacts must stop or our marriage will not survived. According to WW, the OP is pushing her really hard to make our marriage to work because he knew that they don’t have a future together. She told me her feeling about the OP and her feeling toward me. She wants to make our marriage to work for the kids so they don’t have a broken home. At this time she will give me access to her email, voice mail and cell phone accounts but she could not get into R talk or reading SAA and HNHN. She wants to start slow so we could reconnect staring with becoming friends before any R talk could happen. I agreed with her on the approach and I also agreed that we were never friends during our relationship that turns into a marriage. I do want to become her best friend.

All this is very encouraging where the WW fog is thinning. I will keep you guys posted on any new developments.

Well, I'd caution you on that "no MC, HNHN, or SAA" issue.

Tell her that you'll accept that...for now. But set a DATE, a set date that you'll no longer allow your marriage to 'just sit there'. And don't make it some kind of insanely long timeframe either.

And make it clear that after that, you will REQUIRE MC to ensure that your marriage can recover. Make it clear that you can accept that she's not ready at the moment, but that you also are going to NEED this step to ensure that your marriage will survive. So you're compromising by holding off on that requirement...until XXX. Make sense?

Owl, thanks for your reply.

We'll do MC, she just can't get into reading HNHN and SAA right now because it's too much for her to take at one time. I don't think our marriage is just going to sit, what she meant I think is to have us reconnecct first; start dating and enjoy each other's company and do things together. I'll not let our marriage sit if that's her intention.

Thanks again.

Withdrawal from OM is her problem, and NC is the only thing that can cure it. I'm glad she can peek through the fog enough to realize that. Remember, your WW is an addict and she can't be trusted. You need to help her get through withdrawal. I promise you, 2-3 months of NC and you will really start to see some positive improvement in your situation. Just be patient and avoid LBs. Really work to meet her ENs and get the 15 hours/week together.

Jim,

I’m completely agreed with you, NC and getting through her withdrawal are the keys. Good thing that we have our one week vacation in Mexico starting next Thursday, I hope this will take some pressure off from WW’s addiction. We also have another vacation planned at the end of August so that’s two weeks to take her mind off from her poison.

I’m back!!! Update:

One week vacation in Mexico did me good; we all including WW had a great and relax time. During the trip WW started two spates attacks for minor stuff, I just let it all roll off my back. Otherwise, we got along fine. The only intimate moment is when I held her hand for about 5 minutes during a bus trip but she makes some excuse, pulled away and never returns. Other than that, no R talk or loving moment; I was trying to stay away from her spates attacks more than anything. Going away with 20 other people help ease her from starting fights with me.

Last night I asked WW to go to our MC meeting today and she refused to go, her excuse is that she’s too busy (fog talking). She said just because we are doing family stuff together doesn’t mean that she’s working on our marriage. She says she’s only here for the kids but she also wants to be happy too. As she put it, she wants to see if we could get along first before she would work on us (more fog talking). Anyway, I attended the meeting by myself.

At this moment, she has given me accesses to email, cell phone records and passwords. One troubling development is that she uses the OP’s name as part of her work email password and last night when I asked her if she would change the password to respect my feeling, she says no because she uses it since she’s been at her job. She also said that she just changed it yesterday and she still kept his name. I LB a little and told her that it is disrespectful and there is something wrong with her. Let‘s see if she’ll change it when she returns to work on Thursday.

Things are not looking up but I do see some minor changes. As far as I know, there is N/C and I hope it’ll stay that way. I of course will keep at snooping and make sure N/C is in place.

Plan A continues.

Using his name is VERY disrespectful to you. My FWH used OW's birthday for his cellphone password. Trouble is, that I didn't figure it out until we were about three months into recovery. He immediately changed it when he realized how hurtful it was to me.

Sounds like your WW is still majorly in the fog and trying to hang on to any kind of connection.

If she refuses to change her password, instead of getting into a big fight, just change it for her and let her know it has been changed. When she starts laying into you, just ignore her. This way she knows that you are going to demand respect, and you aren't going to be manipulated. Problem solved.

So NC has been in place for how long at this time?

Her actions and talk do NOT sound like someone in withdrawl...they sound like someone still engaged in an active affair to me.

I really think that you need to set some stronger expectations on her. If she wants to stay, she MUST begin MC with you. She cannot remain if she continues to refuse to work on the marriage. She doesn't want to try...because deep down, she knows that if she tries, she'll find herself falling in love with you. And to her, that will be a betrayal of what she had with OM. My wife went through the same mental gymnastics...until I had enough and told her that if she's not going to make an effort to reconcile, she may as well leave and file right now. Not when SHE felt like it, but right now.

End result of our case? Later that same night she decided to 'try'. We're three years into recovery now.

PM & Jim, thanks for your reply.
Very disrespectful in regards to her password, unfortunately, I can’t change it because she needs to initiates a password reset to her IT department. Let’s see what she does when she’s back in her office tomorrow. I’ll remind her tomorrow but I wouldn’t demand it.

Owl,
Thank you for your comments as well. As far as I could tell, her last NC was broken on 7/11 and we were away in Mexico for a week so she’s still fresh in her withdrawn mode. I tried strong arm tactics a number of times; the latest was when I found out she contacted the OP a few days before 7/11. I threw all her cloths from the walk-in into the hallway and told her the next time it will be in the driveway unfortunately it was in front of the kids. I felt terrible and don’t want to do that again because it really putting a lot stresses in our relationship and seems to push her away even more. I’m going to try to be more understanding and patient with her bad behaviors by letting her know it hurts me and wish she could change by showing her kindness and love. I guess a better Plan A and show her how life could be post recovery. I’m going with a softer approach and see if this will lift the fog.

I have asked her to leave but she wouldn’t at the advice of her attorney as she puts it. She knows her legal rights to the house and know how police will react if called upon. I know, I know, I should have not have let her back into the house but I need to move beyond that. At this point, demanding of any type would just push her away further and if I ask her to file, I may actually get it. I think my wife is in a lot deeper than yours. In time maybe after a couple of months but right now I need to practice a good Plan A.

One more question for you or others, my WW has never went back to or falling back in love with a bf/lover after broken up with them and she told me given her history she doesn’t think that she can fall back in love with me especially after falling for the OP. Did your or other FWW that have never fall back in love before the stitch actually does fall back in love? Don’t know if the question is clear or not but I’m just wondering what my success rate will be with her relationship history.

I don't think its her 'relationship history' that's the issue here.

I seriously think she's still wayward. And given that her last 'dose' of OM was just a few weeks ago, that COULD still be your problem. I'd say that given this, you might consider letting things 'ride' for another month or two.

BUT...you HAVE to start enforcing some boundaries, RIGHT NOW. You hurt your situation a LOT by accepting her back without them, and that's going to make it even more difficult NOW for you...but it has to be done or your marriage stands no chance at all.

You need to INSIST on some respect. You need to INSIST on honesty and openness. I know that you're concerned that she'll consider it a 'deal-breaker' and leave. And I'll admit...its a possibility. But I think that you're marriage is at MORE risk if you allow things to continue in the fashion that they are.

You need to have a sit down and make things come to a head...she needs to either be there "for the children" AND to work on the marriage...or she needs to get back out. What she's doing now is NOT helping the children, its not in anyway helpful. She needs to quit acting like a self-centered, snot-nosed little girl...and START acting like a grown up woman who can admit her mistakes and take actions to fix them.

Maybe not today...maybe in another week or two...but no longer than that.

If you sit here and allow this to continue, she's going to destroy your love for her...that's her real intent here, I think. She wants to hurt you and make you angry enough with her that you don't want her anymore.

Does this make sense to anyone but me?

Does your WW fit this profile?

Love addiction