His phone was dead because he was with the OW. I heard the same babble.

I know u r hurt and soon you w/b mad, very mad. Please read the link in my sig line about the stages of grieving so you know what's ahead.

Then u can be prepared and know one day all those tears will stop. That's when the WS will start to worry.

Btw, these boards appear strong because many of us have been in your shoes. Just in a different size and style. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Hugz,
L.

It sounds like you may want to stay in Plan A for a little longer, if you feel strong enough. While you are there, start getting your ducks in a row so you will be ready for Plan B.

And most of us strongly recommend that even when in Plan A, you do NOT have SF with an active WS. The physical and emotional risks are just too great. Do the rest, but not that one.

You are still in shock right now, but aAs Orchid said one of these days you will wake up and be mad as h*ll. Let the anger help you to get a great plan started - a great (and short) Plan A with Plan B ready to go.

You may have seen this already, but this is your game plan for right now:


"The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A" by Pepperband

THE CARROT OF PLAN A:

Meeting your wandering spouse's emotional needs.

Making "home" a warm and inviting place to be.

Placing emphasis on what has worked in the marriage.

Showing consistent self improvement in areas where previously lacking.

Stop lovebusting behaviors.

Communicating with a calm reassuring voice and relaxed body language, even in the center of a verbal storm created by the infidel.

Becoming the person any reasonable spouse would want to come home to.

Remaining open to the possibility of recovery.

Offering forgiveness and understanding.



THE STICK OF PLAN A

Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.

Not apologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.

Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.

Not accepting blame for the infidel's choice to become adulterous.

Allowing the consequences of adultery and infidelity to fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.

Establishing boundaries that disallow the affair to affect children of the marriage or the financial security of the marriage, or otherwise ruin innocent bystanders.

Standing up to infidelity as a beast that must be slain for the good of the family.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Plan A is both a *carrot* and a *stick*.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mulan

The other posters are right, some of us are stronger now, but been were you are now, the pain, reget and the whole emotional roller coaster.



There are other MB members that are more seasoned in dealing with this then I. Keep checking in, read the plans. This site has help me so much and will help you!!

I know you feel "at a Loss". Just like many of us did. But MB members can help you dealing with that feeling.

in pain.....hi, i am sorry you are going through this. btdt

i have to ask...how far is millersburg from where you live? cause its not far from me. also, king of prussia is only 45 min to an hour from me. if i can help in any way, let me know. if you ever need a safe haven or an escape...im not far....

You did just fine. It was better not to confront them. I caught my WH and OW in bed together in his home. His roommate let me in. All it did was fuel their affair.

It is lonely and miserable to go through this. Did you ever write to the OW's parents? I think I would do that. Tell them that your husband and baby's father "disappeared" with the OW for a couple of days. Let them know that you want to keep your family together.

nikko: I need a little help. What does btdt mean?

Also, I think I live about 2 hours from Millersburg and Philadelphia is about 3 hours away, I think. Thank you for offering that safe haven. I may need to take you up on that some day!

in_pain,

I had a similar go at Plan A when I started on my roller coaster. I hadn't found MB until 8 mos after WH started his A. I was in Plan A for a very long time (as I was making improvements even without knowing about MB principles) EXCEPT, as you did, I cried a lot, and expressed grief over being ignored and disrespected.

I am MUCH stronger now, and am doing pretty well. I still have moments of tears and some sorrow, but my life is continuing on, and I do not LONG for my WH, as the wayward is an enemy to me and the happiness of my family.

I did not come to this place without dealing with the perils of travel. I'm still on the roller coaster, but I'm actually enjoying some of the ups and downs again; real life has them, but in real life you get a safety harness; with the wayward you are dangling by their whims...

believer: I was worried about confronting them because I was afraid of it just fueling them and giving the OW the benefit of seeing me upset. So, do you have any suggestions on how I stop this? I feel like I am just letting him get away with this. If I continue to let him get away with it, then he has no reason to stop. What do I do when he tells me he's going into the office and I know that that's not where he was? Or when he comes right out and tells me he's going over to her apartment to "hang out"? I don't even know how to react to that.

I guess I need to let him know I know he wasn't at the office last night. I can hear him now. He'll be mad at me for driving by her apartment to "check up on him", even though I know I have every right to do that. And a lot of reason to do that.

How do I stop this?!?!?!

Also, I did write a letter to her parents.

He did go on this business trip alone. The OW was supposed to go because she was on the job to audit it, but I asked a friend (and co-worker of theirs) to make sure she got taken off the job and she did. So that was good.

Any advice on how to deal with this and to stop being his doormat to stomp all over would be greatly appreciated.

believer,
you don't tink she should at least call him and tell him she knows where he is? Instead, se sits at homs and crys. How the heck is that helping anything?

So far, she is enabling his affair by allowing it to continue uninterrupted.

I am not trying to be mean, but she has to stop being a doormat and an enabler.

I believe you ALREADY have the strength you desire, it's just that you aren't used to excercing it.

It's there...you have the power...just like Dorothy had the power to go home.

You've already proven you have it...when you exposed.

The first thing you need to do is halve the pain you are feeling, by BELIEVING that his A has NOTHING to do w/ YOU!

It has to do w/ your WH and something that is missing inside HIMSELF. He's trying to fix it by going outside himself, and through someone else. The A will NOT do what he thinks it will, and the A will NOT last.

You must think of the A exactly as you would a drug addiction. You wouldn't feel jealous or feel inferior to a drug would you? So, all that comparing you're doing to yourself, stop.

A poster named AMIOK had her husband leave her w/ HIS bio kids every day to go and be w/ his OW. Her sitch looked VERY bad. But guess what??? The A is over and they are recovering their marriage.

A poster named LovingAnyway told her to look at his trips to visit the OW as if he were Alice in Wonderland climbing down the rabbit hole....A's are pure fantasy, IP. Don't hurt yourself more by believing they are more than that.

Dig deep, IP, and find that source of strength w/in you that you've been afraid to dive into. It's there waiting for you...

Here's a post from a poster named Ark who is fantastic w/ plan A....

FIRST thing is that I strongly strongly believe that before you even begin plan A...that you make a time limit for it...with plans to go to Plan B...
that for plan b to be effective you must have a good plan a...and for plan a to be effective and have the stamina to hang in there and give so unconditionally you must have a time frame in mind for plan b.....

Plan A is ALL about the assumption that the WS is still in the affair or in contact...
this is your map to navigating those treacherous waters...

it also is your big moment to diffuse all the excuses WS are prone to use to justify their behavior and choices....

and more you can diffuse their blame...

the bs is "always depressed"
the bs "always wants to talk about relationships"
the bs "is controlling"
the bs "yells all the time"
etc....

the more you remove those things...and the more you remove yourself from any powerstruggles of insanse things...

he said she said..
etc...
the more your disengage from arguements..again the more they have look at their own actions and choices....

here's what I told familymatters..One of the biggest mistakes that people make in plan A is that they begin to meet their spouses needs....and still hold on to great expectations of reward and reinforcement from their spouse....

plan a is ALL about learning to give and do for a bit with NO expectation of ANYTHING in return...

the giving of self and gifts with no strings attached....

I have quoted the silly add campaign for some perfume in the 70's here before...but I think it fits....

It went like this ...

"if you want to get someones attention...
whisper."..

plan a is like a whisper of behaviors and actions...
plan a should not be huge demonstrative expressions of love and romance...

WS are incapable of accepting those things...
part of that is that their actions at the time of continuing an affair are NOT loving and lovable...
and they KNOW it..
sometimes they know it better than their BS...who still want to use words like love to them...

so they get resentful
or shut down
or depressed..
or it solidifies their belief that they are so "bad" or so far gone...it feeds into their excuse and defense of unworthiness...

plan a is about filling the home with love and light in other ways...

it about an upbeat environment without the deep doom cloud hanging overhead..

it is about a home filled with children's activities and joy when applicable and it is about inviting and drawing the wS into those times and activities....

and even when they refuse to come in to the joy...the joy goes on without them...

BS that do a good plan a...say they feel like their WS didn't notice..or only was receptive now and then...and then their involvement and particpation increased...

WS that were handed a good plan a...say they watched and noticed EVERYTHING...EVERYTHING....even when the bS thought they didn't notice a thing....

WS are in great turmoil...and human nature is in conflict to take ALWAYS the path of the least resistance.....

the path of least resistance...is withdrawal and wallowing in self loathing and pity..

the path of least resistance is the OP..for they can not judge and force the WS to see their own actions...because they are as guilty as the other....

so plan A'rs.....need to stop ALL relationship talk..
all talk of love...

you do things that are subtle...
like put a CD in that the WS likes...and just enjoy if yourself...and if they enjoy it also...so be it..
even better yet when it is a blast from the past CD...one that speaks of a history...without blatant insistance that the wS remember this or that....

just history...

the person in plan A...needs to be upbeat and charming...they need to see that the BS is capable of fun and joy...because if all they ever see is a BS lost in the pain..then it will solidify their belief that the pain the WS has caused will never go away...and no one can stand to see the pain they have inflicted day after day...(unless psychotic or sadistic)

the person in plan a needs to engage family and friends in fun activites always always always inviting the wS to join in...
they need to see that things can and could be normal again....

plan a can be leaving a love note...but more impressive a joke...
buy an old farside book and make copies of the really really funny ones....
or the old calvin and hobbs.......
and leave those posted about...
WS seek false joy and laughter....
bring them back to real laughter.....

plan a'rs need to learn to babble back to the insanity that Ws say..and give the babble no leverage or "to die for importance"....

plan a'rs need a time limit of doing plan a with a concrete plan when to go to plan b..
the better the plan b..the better the reality of the consequances of plan b...

make plans to things the wS likes to do..
baseball games..
movies
etc..
and when they dont' want to go..
still go and do them..
be up up up up beat...

draw them to you and your home like a moth to a flame...

work on yourself
find an outside interest that gives you some relief ..

expect nothing nothing nothing from the Ws within a limited time period and free yourself in to the ability to give and do for your spouse better than you ever had....

WS are not used to getting thing with no strings attached....
it will confuse and baffle them...but when they try to use the old "your pressuring me excuse"..it will fall on their empty ears..cause they know that has not been the case..

take them a coffee expresso piled high with whip cream...at work or bring it home to them...and leave it for them..
don't badger them to thank you
don't badger them to tell you how much they liked it..
lay it at their feet and walk away whistling...
find the joy in the act of giving and doing and not in the receptiveness....

hard hard hard hard it is......
but set the time frame and go for it....
anyone can do anything for six weeks..
(except ATKINS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! )

and pray for Gods Grace to enter your heart and home...
pray for serenity...
make you house the home where you and the kids and WS would want to be....


become strong...
become confident
become engaging and charming...

realize that YOU the BS are not lovable or desirable..based on your spouses giving or taking of love...
that you stand alone in this world..
lovabe and desirable...inspite of your spouses...


that's why plan A is all about each and every encounter and glimpse in to you and your home life being as engaging and attractive.....


plan a is all about doing what you can to end an affair....
plan a is built on the presumption that they are in contact...
that's why your contact needs to be better and with more value and depth....

this does not mean that you don't set boundaries on what you will tolerate in your life..

you will not "babysit" the kids so she can go with the OP...

you don't condone any contact..
but you don't powerstruggle it either...


if you think your spouse is going to go out with op don't make it easy for them..don't watch the kids...make plans first...and leave him or her with the kids...etc

hope this helps some..
ark”

You WILL make it!!!

~ Marsh

Plan A until after the holidays. After that I would go to plan B. Kick him to the curb. Get your ducks lined up so you are ready to go. Make sure you have proof of his infidelity (for divorce proceedings if it goes that far). Plan A only works 15% of the time, so plan B is usually necessary. Show him a good Christmas and meet his ENs and then, boom leave your plan B letter for him. This usually makes WS crack.

As for last night, I would calmly let him know that you know what he did. Don't cry or get too emotional. Just use Orchid's reverse babble.

You: I know where you were last night, so don't lie about it.

WH: Are you spying on me? What is wrong with you?

You: I wouldn't need to if my husband wasn't ****ing another woman and lying about it.

This will let him know that you know. It will put additional pressure on him and on his relationship with the OW. Also, what was the response from your WH's employer? Won't they do something about this relationship? I thought you had exposed to them. What about his family? What are they saying?

Hi Marsh:

Thank you for your post. I appreciate you sharing what Ark has to say about Plan A. What do you think about what moveforward says? I see where she is coming from. I do feel like I am just letting him get away with this. If I continue to let him get away with seeing the OW whenever he wants then he has no reason to stop. Like Ark says, I don't want to talk about relationships, but what do I do when I know he lied to me..when he says he's going into the office and that's not where he goes. How do I handle things like that? Do I confront him with his lies?

Please advise.

IP...

It is perfectly acceptable as well as important to let the WS know that you know the score...You don't yell, scream or cry when communicating it...nor do you even have to state how you know what you know, only that you know...A simple statement to your husband along the lines of "I know that you were at OW's house last night, and that is hurtful and unacceptable behavior to me" will suffice...Leave it at that. Remember that you don't have to prove to him something that he already knows to be true...

(((((in_pain)))))

Mrs. W

Thank you Jim:

I appreciate your advice on how to handle last night. That's where I am at a loss. I don't want him to think he is pulling one over on me. I don't want him to think he can get away with lying to me all the time.

I do have proof of his infidelity. My friend (and co-worker of theirs) found a letter in my H desk from the OW that leaves no question of what was going on. That's how my fears were confirmed. She made a copy of that letter and has it. I don't have it because I wasn't ready to see it. She said she will give it to me whenever I am ready.

I did go see a lawyer. I went to see her because she is the best in the area. She is known to be a baracuda (many have called her that) and I wanted to make sure my H couldn't get her. So, now that I already talked to her, my husband can't get her.

Plan B scares me a lot because I think once we separate, we won't have a chance. I think our marriage will be over if we separate. Also, my life will change a great deal. I am a stay at home mom (our son will be 2 in January). I love staying at home with him. Even with child support and alimony, I won't be able to stay in our home. I will have to get a job and find a new place to live. I know it's been done before, but I don't know that I'm ready for it. I don't know if I can handle that right now.

I did expose to his family. His mom, brother and sister in law. His mother is mad at me and won't talk to me. I'm devastated over that. I thought we had a really good relationship. I was always thankful that I got along so well with my mother in law. She has completely turned her back on me and sent me a really nasty e-mail. I think I posted it in my thread. I didn't hear from my BIL or SIL. I think telling his family was useless. I don't think it helped me at all. In fact, it probably hurt me.

I did expose to his boss as well. I didn't hear anything back from him. When my H blew up at me that morning, he said he did have a talk with his boss and he could get fired, so he told me to go start looking for a f*&$#%ing job. What he doesn't realize is that he could get fired from his job because of what he did, not because his boss knows about it. Just like the OW parents are mad at her for what she did not because I told them. It's interesting how they blame everyone but themselves. I did e-mail their boss again last night. I'm hoping to hear from him. I also e-mailed their corporate office about it. I'm hoping to hear back from them as well.

So, I'm not getting a whole lot of help from the exposure. I know my H isn't happy about people knowing at work and I'm sure he's uncomfortable. He was always very well liked in the office and now he knows he's not liked, so that bothers him.

I just feel so down. I need some encouragement and guidance, I guess.

Question for all: did your family think you were crazy when you were doing Plan A? Did your friends and family not understand this method at all? I think people think I'm crazy for being nice to him after all he has done to hurt me.

I don't think you should CONFRONT him.

I think you should do more of what Jim suggested.

Simply state what you know and walk away.

You don't want to engage in fighting w/ him, however, letting him know you know what he's doing is important for both of you.

For example, if he says he's going to the office tonight...you can say...

You: Which office, Dear?

WH: Huh?

You: Do you mean your actual office or the OW's home you called the office last night?

Then walk away.

You don't want to fight w/ him.

You just want to let him know, you know he's cheating AND lying to you.

You have no control over what he does, but by letting him know he's not fooling you, you will take some of the fizzle out of his sleazy A.

And when you do NOT beg, plead, or cry about his choices anymore, you are going to throw him off balance.

WS like their BS miserable..it helps them to justify their continued A.


~ Marsh

Thank you Mrs. W., I appreciate the advice more than you know. I agree, I need to tell him that I know so he doesn't think he can constantly get away with lying to me. Thank you for helping me with what to say. I know he's going to know I drove by there because I've done it in the past, but that doesn't matter.

I just don't want things to be uncomfortable at home, or more uncomfortable than they already are. By bringing that up, it's going to cause tension. I guess that's what stops me from sticking up for myself. I'm trying so hard to focus on a positive environment that I am taking it too far maybe. I don't want to bring anything negative into the environment. But, at the same time, he needs to know he is hurting me and being disrespectful.

Oh, I feel like I'm all over the place with this!

In pain,

I don't think your marriage is over if you separate. It seems to me that your WH is a "cake-eater" that wants both of you (her to meet his ENs that were not being met and you to take care of the children and the household). When you go to plan B, it will deprive him of being able to have both and hopefully his family means enough to him that he comes back. Usually for cake-eaters, they come back shortly after plan B. I look at it this way. If he was going to leave you, he would have by now. My WW did not end contact until I was kicking her out and cutting her off. Sometimes it takes a traumatic event to snap them out of the fog.

Keep attempting to contact his work and get HR involved. If they don't fire one or the other, they usually put pressure on the workers to steer clear of each other. Nothing like a friendly little chat with your bosses's boss firmly telling you that it is inappropriate to get your attention.

I basically stopped talking to my own parents through plan A because they weren't supportive of me trying to save the marriage. They saw how much pain I was in, and just wanted me to stop hurting. The only person who I got any support from was my WW's sister, and even she said that she didn't understand why I wanted to stay with her sister from time to time.

Your situation is not hopeless. Keep your chin up. Continue to with Plan A, all the while getting ready for Plam B, and leave it in God's hands. He'll take care of you if you give yourself to Him.

Thank you Marsh; that really helps (and it's even a little humorous, in a weird kind of way!)

Thank you so much Jim. I hope you are right. I hope my situation isn't hopeless. If I do go ahead with Plan B, I hope my marriage will not end. It's so scary. I hope he comes back to me; I hope and pray about that everyday. Unfortunately, I think I will have to go to Plan B eventually because I just don't see him changing his actions any time soon. And as for the OW, I can't believe she could even show her face at work. If I were her (thank God I am not her and have much more morals than she does), I would never show my face in there again. I think I would have given my resignation to my boss over the phone. It's strange, but I feel embarrassed when I see people my H works with, and I didn't even do anything wrong. I feel ashamed because I know they know what's been going on and I have a hard time looking at them in the face. How in the world does she do it? The OW walks around the office with her head held high; how is that even possible after what she did? I just don't understand it. So, that just goes to show me that she isn't going anywhere. If the shame didn't make her leave, nothing will because she is shameless.

He is still with me because of our son. I really think that's the only reason he didn't leave.

I miss my husband so much. I miss the way he used to look at me. I miss the way he used to talk to me. He used to be interested in what I have to say. Now, he acts like he could care less. I just don't know what to do. I hate living like this.

How can he be interested in anything else when he's strung out on his drug of choice?

Don't think you're the only thing he's ignoring lately.

He's fixated on ONE thing right now.

Don't take what he's doing personally.

It's ALL about HIM, not YOU.



Don't take on HER shame.

YOU did nothing wrong.

What are you telling yourself that makes you feel as though you've done something wrong?

OW may still be going to work, but don't kid yourself, she's getting unpleasant looks and vibes from all the respectable people who work there.

No one likes a home wrecker.

And all those looks and vibes help to tear at the A.

~ Marsh