Wow. Once again I find myself kind of thinking like MEDC. I think it is VITAL that inpain look at EVERYTHING.

Inpain - MEDC is really an honorable and decent guy. He grows on you after awhile.

Please have hope. You have just exposed. Your husband is behaving typically. Most come back to the marriage. He is going by the WS handbook, and we can PREDICT his words and actions. Many people who were way worse off than you have saved their marriage and gone on to have a much better one.

I do too believer, once they are in RECOVERY...Right now her husband is in an ACTIVE AFFAIR...Her WH would only use any talks that she had about this past betrayal as ammunition against her...He already has, in fact...It plays well into his rationalizations and justifications as does every little thing about the BS to an infidel...There really is no being logical with an illogical fogged out WS, so now is not the time to talk to him about this, wouldn't you agree?

Mrs. W

Nope, I don't. I think she might want to apologize for her behavior years ago, and realize that maybe he is having an affair to get back at her. No need to beg and plead, just simply express her regret.

On the bright side, she is very early in this. The exposure takes some time to work.

My prayers are with her.

Funny thing it is usually said on here not to try to reason with a WS - in fact, you have said it- now it is ok?

Let me get this straight so I don't confuse myself- you only try to reason with a WS if you yourself have had an affair?

The kool aid flavors sure keep changing tonight.

I'm willing to bet that apologies to him have been made regarding the past, prior to his affair-he has had SEVEN years to let her know if that was still an issue for him...I can certainly tell you that in wayward mode that would NOT have been a good thing to present to me...I would have used it against Mr. W, sadly...There really is NO rationalizing with the irrational...I am grateful that Mr. W and I have recovered our marriage and hope that we will be able to offer IP support and help to do the same...

Mrs. W

believer, she long ago apologized for her affair and asked forgiveness, there is no need to do it over and over again.

There is no excuse to have an affair and her affair hasn't a damn thing to do with his. Embarking on another apology tour will only hand him some more ammunition to rationalize his affair. Of course it is something that must be evaluated, but while in RECOVERY. Right now, she has an affair to deal with.

She needs to educate herself about the program, like noodle suggested, and focus on calming down.

Got it, Mel. I had a real hard time calming down 3 years ago when I came here. Thankfully, y'all got me through it. Life is good again, and that will be my prayer for inpain.

This stuff sucks.

I agree.

What he is doing to her now far outweighs anything that she has done to him in the past. It is totally irrelevant to the present situation IMHO

Ok IP, let's make this a bit more simple for you. 1st off, understand that the variety of posts are basically trying to keep you sane and strong. We may have different ways of helping you but the intent is the same. I have yet to read of a poster in this thread advocating the WS ways, ok?

Now hold my hand and let's go look at this together.

1. Your H is a WS. He is not rational in his thought and actions.

2. You had shortcomings in the past. Let them stay there. Make sure you are NOT contributing to that kind of lifestyle. NOTE: It may become a strong temptation to want attention which could lead to an EA/PA. Refrain from putting yourself in that type of sitch.

3. If the WS wants to dig up the past, give him a shovel and let him have at it. He will have to put effort into it but you need to stay out of his way. He wants to dig, let him dig until he poops out. Don't wipe his but, don't fix him dinner, don't wash his clothes...... he wants to dig. Remind him he has a shovel in his hand and can't handle eating and shoveling [censored] at the same time. In other words, leave him be. Just go to a safe place.

4. Do NOT apologize for the past more than once. The WS in him will want to pull you through that cycle over and over because it soothes their WS soul. Do NOT give into that kind of sick need. Instead, remind him you are not doing that now, then look at his eyes and say....r u? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> There, your 1st reverse babble lesson.

To a certain extent you must realize that you can never be nice to a WS. So if you are afraid of losing your H you will want to be distant with the WS. The nicer you are to the WS, the greater the chance you stand of losing your H.

Which brings me to my next point. It is very simple: Plan A your spouse and plan B the WS.

Remember to plan B, your mind and heart must be in sync. You can't rush it. So in the interim, keep busy and rest. Get a hobby, visit a friend, come work in my yard <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />, call Jean36 (she's got lots of yard work - it is therapuetic for her), etc. Keep busy. If you have children concentrate on them. Reassure them of your love. LEARN to live WITHOUT the WS.

Btw, the WS needs t/b distant with you. You are bad association for a WS (reverse psychology ploy <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> ). That's a tool you can use for YOUR protection. Try it!

Now we are at the end of our walk tonight. It ia almost midnight here and I have just gotten home from work. Lasagna doesn't taste so good this late at night and I gotta go do the dishes. So let go of my arm and get some rest. We will chat tomorrow, ok?

Btw, Medc means well....just a bit rough around the edges but basically a good guy. What u r hearing is probably his frustration at your H. We all have different ways of expressing it. You should read some of my posts a few years ago. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

We can do more RB stuff tomorrow.

take care,
L.

((((IP)))
How are you tonight?

Read and reread Orchid's post. She is wonderful!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /><waving to L.>

I remember very well, when my WH was still "hanging out w/ his "friend". (He was also very concerned I'd ruin her reputation. She was SO nice!)It was so painful. I had panic attacks, couldn't eat, couldn't sleep. The thing that helped the most was make a plan. MY PLAN.

I needed routine and structure not only for me but for my kids as well ....living in the chaos of A, w/ a spouse who had be taken over by aliens. I made a to do list.... basic routine, shower, dress down to my shoes...not sweats, makeup, make my bed, do a load of laundry, dishes, child care, etc. I needed it because I swear there were days I was so distracted I'd forget to brush my teeth. (www.flylady.net is very helpful for establishing routines).
That stuff was part of my plan A. I would also plan for plan B,,,,gather info on finances, insurance policies,tax returns, investments, opened my own bank account.(that one threw WH & OW into a tail spin...quote from OW"Oh was she crying and all upset because you went out tonight? NO???What do you mean she opened her own bank account??!! This is a whole new ballgame. I don't want her starting trouble!") Consult a lawyer, know your rights, figure out a budget you can live on, if WH doesn't give you money what would you do, grow your support system in RL...who will help w/ child care, etc.Gather evidence about A...documentation in case you need it for court, emails, texts, phone bills, credit card statements, ATM statements, track his nights out and cross reference...DO NOT share evidence w/ him make copies of everything and store them away from your house.

In pain...this is war....make a plan...a stratedgy to save your family.

You mentioned he had a parent that died suddenly....Check out info on mid-life-crisis...death of a parent and new baby can help start MLC. Believer knows a website, fortysix.com or something like that.

Ifound it...www.fortysixty.org

IP,

How r u doing? C42 hit it right on when she wrote how she coped. Make a plan. YOUR PLAN!!! It will empower you more than you realize now.

take care,
L.

InP,

How are you today??? Hope you got some sleep, I know it's hard, but try to rest for yourself as much as you can. This will be a long road.

Listen to these people. I wasn't always sure they were telling me the right thing to do, but I did them anyway and at each turning point they were dead on. They said M2L if you do this your ww will do that and it worked. After 7 months of Plan A my wife crashed this past week and now feels lots of guilt.

You can make it too

InP,

Forgive me if this is a repeat, but this helped me. Marsh past it along.DOs

1. Act Happy
2. Get a life (new activities, etc.)
3. repeat over and over..."I will make it"
4. Actively LISTEN....keep conversations at "to the point...small talk" ...don't blow it up beyond the waywards current comfort zone
5. Tend to Agree (Thank you for your truthfulness, It seems that way, you have a point)
6. Expand your social relationships (Being especially aware of your own vulnerability and keeping sharing and time with opposite sex relationships to an absolute minimum)
7. Get sexy (gym, new clothes, etc)
8. Focus on your strengths and Positives...don't put yourself down verbally or constantly go over what you did wrong
9. Accept Uncertainty (Do your best today and let God take care of tommorrow)

DON'Ts

1. Repeatedly say "I love you"
2. Ask questions that don't have answers yet
3. Criticize, complain, whine or nag
4. Say, "I've changed"....allow the wayward spouse to simply judge your actions
5. Argue, Reason or Plead
6. Don't get family or friends overly involved in recovery (notice I said "in recovery", EXPOSURE to bust up an active affair IS ESSENTIAL and EXPOSURE to the OP's spouse is an absolute MUST)
7. Act helpless or depressed
8. Discuss morality, invoke God or Dr. Laura type babble
9. Suggest marital counseling (must be the waywards idea)
10. Tell them continually "we need to work on the relationship"
11. GIVE UP

~ Marsh

M2L passed on some GREAT tips!

As far as your past...deal w/ that w/ your IC....you did the things a WS is suppose to do, stopped contact, told spouse, focused on family and marriage. Now you need to work on acceptance and forgiving yourself.

We are human we sometimes make bad choices, I know I did. Before I got married I did some things that I am not proud of, I kind of skimmed over them w/ H before we got married, he never asked for details I never offered them. I thought it was all behind me.....but I never really dealt w/ it. Then when we were having difficulty getting pregnant I thought God was punishing me...the guilt I felt was overwhelming. After a miscarriage and another year of "trying" we were blessed and I got pregnant. 5 months in I started w/ premature labor and had to go on bedrest, ended up w/ my son being born 2 wks LATE! After a very long labor (36hrs) and emergency c-section he was born w/ sepsis (blood infection from being in labor so long) he had irregular heart rate and would stop breathing at times. I made a deal w/ God that I would be the best Mom ever. I became totally focused on my son and neglected my H. I didn't even want to meet his needs.

2 years later I had a baby girl. She was the most beautiful baby w/ porcelin skin and pouty lips. I couldn't believe that God blessed me twice! I was devoted to my babies. The whole time H was there supporting me and I was so overwhelmed with the guilt from my past I couldn't see it. All I could think about was being a good Mom....I became a terrible W.

As the kids got older (BTW they are both happy and healthy), I started to see I needed a balance. By that time OW had already started to infilltrate my family as a "friend". Never in a million years did I think my H would betray me. I was wrong.

What I learned...I made bad choices, did things I would never dream of doing now. It seemed surreal at the time. I came around...I changed. I have finally face my demons and forgiven myself. It gave me empathy for my WH...I think that is why I was able to hang in there. I knew my H was lost...I love him, I wanted to be the lighthouse to find his was home. WH is gone and my H is home. I thank God and MB for it everyday.

I know you are fearful about WH leaving. Prepare yourself. But leaving isn't always a bad thing. We didn't make any real progress until my WH finally left and I went to plan B.

Waiting to hear from you.

IP..How are you?

Has anyone heard from IP??

no, and she is not answering her phone or returning emails to me. I am very concerned.

Oh no.

I was hoping you were still in touch w/ her.

Let's hope she went to stay w/ someone for a while.

~ Marsh

Has anyone spoken to her since MEDC went off on her? She hasn't posted since his diatribe.

KA... actually there was no diatribe... I told her that I think she needs to consider all possibilites...but you have a tendancy to run with the negative towards me... so your comment is no unexpected...
funny, I don't see you harassing Believer for saying she agreed with my thoughts.
Typical.
Let's just hope for the best that she is indeed working things through with her H...

She also has not answered my emails...This really concerns me due to the previous talk of suicide...

Mrs. W