That is exactly when Plan B comes in, and relatively quickly too.

Hey Hiker! Haven't seen your thread coming up lately. Good to see you!

I was told as was my EXH during pre-marital counseling that marriage is 100/100, not 50/50. And I fully approached my marriage like that. Despite the fact that I am divorced now, I am overall proud of how I acted in marriage and in my marriage post-affair. Plan Kick in the A was not instinctual for me--quite the opposite. Maybe it was guided by Dobson's Love Must Be Tough, as I read that right around the time my WH left.

Happiness is just a word. It is a fleeting feeling that I feel throughout the day. Joy is something more I aim for. THat Joy I feel knowing I am loved by God. THat joy I feel knowing I am going to be taken care of by a God who has got my back. WH first left sighting he didn't feel happy anymore and I wasn't affectionate enough. Since when did one person's happiness dictate anything? Commitment, a covenant of marriage, means more to me than happiness.

During my plan-a period (WH moved out before I even knew of the affair--for perspective) I was not thinking of anyone's happiness. I was thinking of how horrible it must be for WH to be living in such pain and sin. How horrible it would be for him to have to forever live with breaking up his family. SO I chose to continue to treat him with love and respect, to show him how Christ loves us, more than to save my marriage. I truly wept for the condition of his heart and soul. I loved him and did not want to see him live like this.

The marriage part would come later. It couldn't be fixed if he didn't get himself fixed first. He didn't. ANd is still a ws, though now my XH. All his doing. I still pray for him, but have come to realize that he will have to go through this. He created the mess, he will have to live it now. And I would rather be me anyday than him. And I feel released now. Like I did my part as a Christian and as a wife.

Someone told me once that apart from God we are capable of amything. How fitting.

Plan A is not a doormat, and so many let themselves be one during plan A. Plan A is being a strong person. Turning the other cheek, but not closing your mouth and not letting your voice be heard. Plan A was meant to have boundaried as well.

MB plan did not save my marriage. But I can 100% say honestly that it was a weapon God gave me to get through this personally.

I used to say and BELIEVE the same thing.



~ Marsh

Uber-feminist writer Fay Weldon has recently published a book entitled 'What Makes Women Happy'.

The author of 'Life and Loves of a She-Devil', in which a terrible revenge is exacted upon an unfaithful husband and his mistress, has now concluded that the path to true happiness, for women at least, is to be good.

I haven't read it yet, but I intend to.

Alph.

27 and such wisdom. You are indeed a child of God. Your next husband (should you choose to remarry some day) will be a very blessed man.

Those words will never come from me. I know this will never happen.... can never happen in my life. I will not disrespect myself or the people I love in that way... can't and won't do it. It doesn't make me any better.... just different.

Weaver,

Thanks. Not to thread jack, but how are things?

MEDC,

I agree that Plan A is not always the appropriate response to discovery, though if you can do it, I can't see that it hurts anything if done before the BS resentment builds up to the danger point.

Glad to see you bring up some thought-provoking ideas though!

Agreed... so long as the BS can handle it. As Dr. Phil says... do not invest more than you can afford to lose.

And thanks.

Why is it important for you to believe this?


~ Marsh

I not only believe it... I know it to be fact.

And it is not important for me to believe this... I was responding to something brought up concerning Dr. H's view.

I guess the more obvious question is... why is it important for you to question this?

Percentage of "very happy" first marriages (self-described) in the United States

▪ 54% in 1976

▪ 38% in 1996


In my estimation, 38% versus 25% when you add in infidelity is not that bad. I know the questions differ but I think the numbers above do say a lot.

I glean that from 1976 to 1996, the pursuit of "happiness" as a goal has resulted in this huge statistical anomoly.


I've seen that site before and some of the statistics I do get a kick out of.

Like

Why did your marriage end:

Spouse had affair 22%
I had an affair 5%

Of course, the divorce wayward is NOT going to blame themselves so thus all the other reason percentages are skewd by the waywards that lied when answering this question.

OR

Would you ever cheat on your spouse:

Yes 5%
No 95%

Naive.

MEDC...you and I will VERY LIKELY never be wayward spouses...we've experienced it and we've read about it and we both fully understand it. We've made a CHOICE not to ever be wayward. Years ago...I know that I was just as susceptible to waywardness as my wife. I didn't know much about and I thought we were above it somehow...but I never CHOOSE specifically to protect myself from potential waywardness. I believe that all humans are capable of it...including you, MEDC. The worst part about it IMO is, YOU and I would have been the worst kind of waywards. We are both quite black and white, hard headed and opinionated. We would have NOT QUESTIONED our very own and valued rationalizations and justifications. Point being...today, I am thankful that my wife betrayed my ill-advised complete trust in her BEFORE I inadvertently and sinfully did it to her ill-advised and complete trust in me (though I can tell you Mrs. W would have NEVER allowed me to email, text and phone an old high school girlfriend like I did).

Mr. Wondering

We will need to disagree about this... since I cannot prove my point. But I know I am not capable of this. I think there are a lot of people here that are afraid to say that they aren't capable of that... they don't want to come across as being better than a FWS. I feel it is just a different make up. It is just not in my make up to have an affair. If I had any contact with an old girlfriend... my current partner would be the first to know. I am not tempted sexually by others when I am in a relationship... nor do I feel that I need to look elsewhere to have my needs met. I have maintained relationships with female friends for 20+ years and never have crossed a line with them.

Again, we will need to agree to disagree.

What a fascinating thread! Ark, you are amazing. Even when I don't agree with you 100%... I love reading you...

Having been cheated on numerous times by my ex-H, one would think I would never have cheated, either. And I didn't... for 18 years... and then I did. What does that say?

Over the seven years I've hung around this joint (MB)... I've come to the conclusion that some people will never cheat. Some never have and die never having cheated. I guess that's obvious since we all know people who haven't cheated. I thought I was one of them. I wasn't. I have to live with that now.

Though, I still believe one needs to be ever-on-guard, even if you think you'd "never"... and here's why. Infidelity is COVERT, even at its inception. Unless we're dealing with a sexual addiction and/or porn, the typical emotional affair that leads to physical intimacy begins in the smallest of ways. And it DISGUSTS me how scripted it seems, and how I didn't notice it when it happened to me. A work-email friendship, at first. Answering questions about my life... leading to more probing, personal questions, which seemed okay because we were "friends"... leading to the inevitable, "We're in our 40's. Are we happy?"... and by then somehow believing that "happiness" was the goal. By then, I was hooked. A choice? Sure, it is. But I have to tell you that it "felt" like I was sucked into something that had an energy all its own. And from all that we've read about addictions, if you subscribe to the "affair = addiction" theory, it did.

Blech. Enough about my past. Let me tell you that NOW, I don't ever, ever even talk to men about my marriage or my personal life. I'm friendly, but not to the point of email or chatty conversations. Sheesh and dang, I wear a SHIELD, and it's my wedding ring. I talk about my H all the time, most around my job know him (because he used to work in this office) and I have his picture at my desk. I am married and not interested -- it is clear.

But all that said... I will tell you that my H and I, both in second marriages, divorced from people who cheated on us, have made a vow -- cheat on me and it's over. Divorce. Period. No questions asked. End of story.

So in that way, I agree with MEDC's thoughts.

I just thought I'd throw my thoughts, such as they were, into the mix for your consideration.

Carry on this fabulous thread!

Ark really captures my experience..this really said it for me:



I come to this site to do my part in "saving souls"....

Because if anyone was ever lost, it was my H...

I still to this day say, "If he can have an affair, ANYONE can"...

He WAS a GOOD MAN..I say WAS because I still don't think he's the person that he used to be..he's been to the gates of HE//..and I often feel sad for him in terms of his brokenness and what he has loss..

On the other hand, after coming here so often lately, I more and more highly ADMIRE and RESPECT him and often tell him so..given how far he has come..given how hard he is working to RESTORE and to RECOVER himself...

My H was one of the pillars of this community. He would give you the shirt off of his back and has given folks shirts off of his back. He was GOOD as GOLD to me and others....I took him for granted. He turned his back on that life and ended up living in the ghetto with a woman who clearly did not know GOD..I pray for her salvation.... He was DEMONIZED...Maybe too much information...

But I personally get troubled...am I to believe that my H is sooo, sooo SPECIAL? Am I too believe that others can't make it like we have? Really, I find that to be depressing..because I want others to know the HAPPINESS that we now share...and the HOPE for the future.

I know that there may not be many...but I don't want folks to GIVE UP HOPE....

I don't want to BELIEVE that we are SOO, SOO, SPECIAL....

That is why I was asking that question to MEDC....What is your point?..I was really trying to get it...

I'm not sure what a SOUNDBITE is..but if this is one....so be it....

You know it's interesting, I never had friendships with married men, engaged men, or even men in steady relationships. As a bartender I only looked at the girlfriend or wife. At the job I have now, I never travelled with MM on business and refused to have even a casual friendship.

And still I ended up with a married man. A con artist and a liar.

I didn' know he was married, not for eight months (from another state but working in mine).

I went on vacation with his daughter, met his mother and nobody told me he was married.

Never say never.

I believe with all my heart I am incapable of lying though. I don' believe I could lie to someone. And I hope that I am never proven wrong.

Really enjoyed reading through this thread. There is so much insight to be found in all these words.

I'm still a newbie, but have read a lot. I do think that MB principles are sound, and that a BS who wants to save the marriage should intially work at Plan A if given the chance and if the BS has the fortitude to do so. I really wish that I was given the chance to do more of a Plan A. I did to the extent that I could, but rectifying my early mistakes of moving out of my house and telling WW that I would not expose to OMW angered WW so much that she moved out, more or less cut off contact with me, and found a new guy to sleep with when her affair fell flat on its face.

Now our marriage has quickly progressed down the path of divorce. My brain tells me it is for the best, my heart tells me otherwise. My heart tells me this becasue my wife is a good person; a good person with a lot of demons to deal with.

When looking back, an earlier poster hit the nail on the head with respect to my marriage. My WW has so many issues and inner demons that she had before we even met and still had when we married that she was just not a happy person. It is hard, but rationally I know that our marriage was not the result of her unhappiness. That was there to begin with. She will never be happy until she deals with those demons and is happy with herself as a person. There wouldn't be any chance for our marriage until she makes the decision to stand up to those problems instead of running from them or finding the next addiction to cover them up.

I truly feel sorry for my WW. As Ark had alluded to, she is a lost soul. She herself on D-day stated that she knows that she is going to he11. I can't imagine what it must be like for her. I can't imagine the inner pain and turmoil that she is going through. Despite the amount of pain that she has caused me, I will always have a place for her in my heart and really do hope that one day she can address her problems and find happiness.

I have taken this slap in the face to start addressing some of my deficiencies. Most importantly, my relationship with my God. Although I have never lost that relationship, I was taking it for granted. I was taking a lot in life for granted.

Scotty

I think this is a very important point.

There is a difference between saying/believing,"I will never choose to have an A, and will do what ever I can to protect myself from having one." And saying/believing, I do not have it IN me to have an A."

One is humble and one is not.

One will enable you to demonstrate compassion to WS and one will not.

~ Marsh

To those on this thread who have been posting to in-pain, too - thanks. If you haven't been, she can use lots o encouragement.

Ark, I so appreciate you doing this thread on Plan A. I never had to do it to break up the A, so I did not do the Plan A that is talked about on MB.

I really appreciate all of you helping her.

This is an excellent point. I love this!

Scotty,

That you are using this to become a better person, to use it for growth...speaks volumes about you. Good for you, I am so impressed! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I'm with you MEDC. I think Harley suggests that we're all *capable* of having an A. But that does not mean that, when it comes to making that choice of whether or not to step over the line, all of us will make the choice to step over.

I've been put in at least one situation where I could have chosen to have an A without my W's knowledge. The temptation was there, the situation would have allowed me to get away with it. I CHOSE not to do so, for various reasons, including:

1. My personal integrity is THAT important to me.
2. The thought of causing someone so close to me such deep hurt by indulging in an A.
2. I knew that there is no way I could look my W straight in the eye and lie to her for months, if not years, to hide my actions.