Well, don't get yourself into legal trouble, certainly.

It sounds like she's following the rules, but one thing I saw in your post that you may want to think about

It's like letting her dropp the kids off the other day--I'm not sure I want my plan B to be so dark that it comes across mean-spirited. Being cool and letting her eat static is the biggest part of the plan, I think.


Plan B, when done correctly, comes off as Plan B, not mean spirited. Dark means that, DARK. There is no need for you to SEE her, or vice versa. Well, there's a need, but this is not the time to address it.

I'm a little wounded right now, so forgive me if I overstepped. These Plans work, for you and for your spouse...Show strength in the face of adversity, and she will respect that, she may not like it, and may fight it, but she WILL respect it.

It's cool. I think it's been over two and a half weeks since I made any eye contact with her--about that long since I saw her at all. About that long since I spoke to her, and that was maybe ten words on the phone. I'm dark.

When I talked with Jennifer, she emphasized that Plan B can feel like punishment (and can be mis-applied as punishment, too), and punishment is not what it's about. I'm cognizant of that, which is where the "mean-spirited" thinking comes from.

I'm dark. And staying away from her place.

I think you are doing fine. Plan B is extremely difficult with young children. Like Bob Pure says, you are doing a hero's gig. Hang in there and stay in the battle.

hey sdg, I have said those exact words...what is scary is that you get so used to the garbage...that it almost just washes over you...still causes the gut wrenching nausea..but not the full on panic like it did in the beginning...I guess we really will never be OK with it...its just that we get used to it...expect the pain...and keep going back for more....this is the cycle WE have control over stopping...but I know...easier said than done.....I am SOOOOO there.



I am having the same thought process about locks...so far my WS has been respectful...I also have my MIL downstairs so I will know if she is here. But all of a sudden everyone see's me as the heavy. I KNOW what I am doing is right..just..self preservation... but WS sees things differently...see's me as being stubborn ...resentful...petty...If I change the locks, to WS it will look like punishment..she will be oh so offended as if I can't trust her...uh..yeah!!!!!

WS doesn't understand me...S does sometimes...you never know who's comming out to play(WS or S) I trust my S that she will respect my boundaries..but that damn WS keeps sticking her head out of the sand....what to do????

One of the things Jennifer told me is that upon entering Plan B, WW would accuse me of being immature, and while she hasn't come right out and said it, it's pretty clear from WW's occasional snide remarks that she thinks I'm being immature. I don't care. I know that what I'm doing is in the best interest of my children, my WW, and myself.

If I thought she wasn't fogged and was making rational decisions, I might do things differently (and if anything, that's the nagging, irrational fear. What if she's better off with someone else and what we had *isn't* worth rebuilding). But WW's behaviors are *exactly* those of a fogged WS. What she says, what she does, how she lies, everything. So I'm doing Plan B, and I'm confident about it. If WW doesn't like it, tough. She's insane. If there were anyone else that doesn't like it (and saw me as the heavy), I don't know that I would care, but I have taken great pains to explain to people how romantic affairs work and why I'm doing what I'm doing. My ILs know what I'm doing and approve.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that you should try to be confident in what you're doing. It's the right thing, and as we've seen with SL (and others), it can work.

Today on my way to work, I felt like I honestly don't care whether she comes back or not. If she does, great. If not, that's okay, too. I'll be fine either way.

you go SDG....you sound really strong today!!!!
kepp on keeping on!!!!!1 and I am soooo happy for SL, I haven't had time to post to her thread...going there next..

SL if you are around Congrats!!!

Strong one day, weak the next. Today not good. Got a venomous voice mail from WW last night. First told me that the kids were fine, in case I care. Then said she found out I called OMW last week and told me to stop. Also wanted to know why I wanted to know what OM's car looks like (a casual question I had asked OMW--one that she asked me first). Told me to let it go.

So, this is Fogtalk, but it still hurts. I know it's fogtalk. I know she is lashing out because she feels threatened or is hurting about something. I don't give a rat's bladder about whether they want me talking to OMW (I mean, I know that they don't, because OM is still lying to OMW that the affair is over, or was when I last talked to her). What bothers me is that OMW told OM anything at all. And what else did she tell him? Plan B? Does WW view look at this as me still trying to hold onto her, and now she's trying to push me away harder?

I think that I won't talk to OMW anymore, because I'm not sure that I can trust her. I certainly know enough not to respond to WW's tirade.

And I know that I should ignore this and stay in a dark Plan B. Protect myself. Put her out of my mind. But it's hard, and I am down. Plus, I hurt my back and am hobbling around in pain.

Tomorrow will be better.

"And I know that I should ignore this and stay in a dark Plan B. Protect myself. Put her out of my mind. But it's hard, and I am down."

Exacttly right, SD. Sorry about your back. That is miserable. How did you hurt it?

I've been low-grade back trouble for some time--minor sciatic pain. MRI said herniated disk but not serious. I haven't gotten in to see ortho yet, though. So I should be taking it easy more, but it's hard to live that way. Today I did some drywall work on the ceiling, did some strenuous creeping vine separation, fertilized my roses with bone meal (hands and knees). But was turning slightly with a bottle of RoundUp in my hand when I finally felt something. I'm pretty sure it's muscular, but that doesn't make it hurt any less right now.

I'm feeling lonely and probably more than a little sorry for myself tonight, too. But I have gotten validation from plenty of people just over the past couple of days, including offers from a couple of the neighborhood moms to help with kid transfers (to avoid contact). They also said that they were really happy I was the one still in the house.

Yes, this sucks very much. I don't want to live like this. I didn't deserve this. My kids didn't deserve this. I want this to be over. I want my wife and family back. I don't want to feel like this.

But

I know that W may never come back, and if she doesn't, I will be fine, if not better off. I may not want her back anyway. I know that I will be okay, and my kids will be okay, because they have me.

I will be strong for my children.
I will be strong for WW.
I will be strong for myself.

At least, so long as my back stops hurting.

Sorry to hear about your back. Hopefully it is just muscular. My back goes out from time to time, and it is just like you say - I can do heavy work, and just moving slightly wrong will throw it out.

In another year they are going to have some kind of laser treatment, so don't get any surgery if you can help it. I saw a TV special on it, and the doc said to hold off if possible. This new thing is going to be the miracle cure.

I know this stuff is hard, but hang in there. Chances are excellent that your wife will come back. If not, our MB men always do very well finding a good partner.

sdg....are you supposed to be doing all that with disc involvement???be careful.




be strong for your W she is the one that needs you, WW can go to ****!!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

you are strong...but that doesn't mean this doesn't bite!!! you will get through...take care of that back of yours

I got the kids back today and found out they had "guests" at WW's apartment last night. People they "met" in the park. It was clearly OM and his two daughters. This, of course, made me furious.

WW had told my mother that she had no intention of exposing our kids to OM, that it would be completely inappropriate. Even MIL thought that WW would not do this, or at least this soon. So I called MIL and told her.

Then, OMW called me. She wanted to warn me that, based on stuff she leaked to OM, WW thinks I have been following her. I told OMW about last night, and she was furious, too. The call was interrupted by my neighbor the chiropractor (back improved, and MRI results are not serious).

Then WW calls me to ask whether or not I've been following her. I tell her no, I am not and have not followed her. WW says she didn't think so but had heard otherwise. She then asked me how my back was (!) and something about our son's school.

I called OMW back, and in the interim she has talked with OM. OM told her that last night was all about hurting me (in retaliation for me following?) and not anything else.

I calmed down a bit, then called my mom, who is actually at my kids' swim lessons with WW. Told mom what I had been told. Then asked to talk with WW and told her what OMW told me (that last night was about hurting me). WW said no, that's not what it was about. Said that OMW is not reliable source. I said that what happened last night only hurts our kids and then got off the phone.

Damn. I shouldn't have let myself get drawn into the drama. I'm going to calm down, not talk to her anymore, and recognize that their behavior is totally fogged. Madness.

Other advice?

"WW said no, that's not what it was about. Said that OMW is not reliable source."

LOL - And your WW and OM ARE reliable sources?????

I'm not surprised at all. For some reason the waywards always want to drag their children into the mess.

I've said it before, but the actions of WS's would be comical if they weren't so sad and destructive. I'm not surprised--it was only a matter of time until she inflicted OM on the kids.

WW expressed to my mom that she's frustrated with my lack of communication. Which is good. Asking about my back shows that she misses having me as a friend and notices the lack of communication.

I'm exhausted after all the drama today, but if anything I feel better because I feel like I have the upper hand again. I didn't really feel that way after the voice mail the other day, but now I do.

WW is frustrated with my lack of communication. Thinks that me talking through my parents is a crutch and that I will have to communicate more with her, at least about the kids.

All sorts of things I could communicate.

Me: I hear that what happened last night (kids meeting OM) was about hurting me.
WW: No, that's not what it was about.
Me could have said: Then what was it about?

Or

DS thinks that you just met Them at the park and invited them back to your apartment. Explain to me how this is good parenting. Or how this is not lying to your children.

Or

My mother tells me you want me to communicate more about the kids. So, tonight, when we told DD that tomorrow is a Mommy Day, DD said "I hate Mommy days." Is that the kind of thing you wanted to communicate about?

But, just say nothing, right?

Okay, so I'm pretty depressed today. I want to respond.

I'm thinking that what OMW told me is the truth--that for OM, it was about hurting me. OM really really doesn't like me talking to OMW. I don't think that WW wants to hurt me, so this makes me think that OM is the one pulling the strings here and WW is the follower (I'm pretty sure of that, actually). Under these circumstances, does any of this (WW using her kids to get at me, if she can figure that out) help her see what a sh#t OM is? Maybe a simple email like:

OM to OMW: "I only did that to hurt SDGuy." OM doesn't like me talking with OMW, so he convinces you to use our children against me. Nice.

But that would be using reason, wouldn't it?

Man, this sucks.

Don't respond. All that does is prolong the affair by playing you against the infidels.

You could get something in writing that says the children are not to be around any "friend" of the opposite sex.

Hey guy,

Look, one small little thwack and then I'll be done. WAAAAAAAAY too much talking going on between you two.

Stop it!

Okay, now on to other things. The things that your WW will say are horrible, so think of Plan B in terms of saving up that love bank and keeping from the destruction of an enemy (the wayward). You are going to lose it this way. Don't talk to her, not for any reason. I don't hear any real COMMUNICATION here. I hear WW spewing venom in the cover of fog.

I want to hear you talking about longing to speak to your W, not depressed because of the talking you have done. Separate yourself from this. Be good to yourself.

About talking to OMW, I think it is good, on occassion, but you don't want any implications coming from that R either. Get yourself out of that triangle, too. See, you are COMPOUNDING the pain and destruction by knowing what OM thinks and his motivations, and that's doubly bad. NO MORE, okay. DARK DARK DARK. TM's if you must, NO PHONE CALLS. Lunamare works with her H through voicemail. The less that you hear her voice or stand in her path, the longer Plan B will take, and the effectiveness will cease...

I'm so happy to see all of the Plan B'ers here talking with eachother on your thread. I'm still going to be on GQII, because there is so much more traffic here.

About the back pain...I have had problems on and off for years. Mostly muscular, so I get what pain you must suffer with each set back. It's okay. Also, I found when I was in a better state of mind, my body responded in kind. AND, take it easy there, soldier, that list of chores you performed is pretty long, maybe break it up a bit...

Thanks, guys. No communication. Dark. What about telling her mom? Can I tell on her? Her mom still hasn't told WW about her own marital issues and what happened to her. Maybe this would be a kick to get her to do something?

It was just the two brief calls yesterday--no more than a minute each, but your point is taken.

The depression is about the state of things, and that my W is so far gone from me. The helplessness. I think I talked before about never encountering a serious problem I couldn't solve. A related issue is that I've never felt so helpless about something before. In the past, I've always known that if I didn't like it, I could pull up and do X. But I don't like any of the X options. It's humbling to be so helpless.

As I type that, I think maybe there are some 2x4 thwacks for me lurking in what I just said. Not sure.

Believer, WW would never agree to the "no friends" thing. I suggested it at one point. Others have suggested that I start dating so that WW can see what it feels like. That's not the answer either.

I saw my neighbor/chiropractor this afternoon, and the back doesn't appear to be anything serious, but I will getting some visits with him, so that should help. He told me that emotional stress exacerbates back trouble, which I have no problem believing.

Thanks again for listening. I think I will set something up with Jennifer.

NO 2x4's here, you are learning about control and it's illusion, and that can be devastating. YOU are not helpless, never have been, but you cannot control this R.

When the time comes, the WW will be gone, and your W will agree to the 'no friens' thing. It's a clear boundary for me, and I couldn't see going into recovery without it...

You have 1 month is Plan B and should be settling down a bit. It sounds like it. You sound like you are doing a lot of thinking about you, and that is great.

Glad to hear the back isn't serious. Take it easy...