I was talking with my best friend at work last week, and he commented that it probably couldn't get much worse, and I said "Well, if she starts exposing the kids to the OM, that would be worse." And then finding out that my children were used (by him, if not by WW) to hurt me was pretty bad.

I see that the wise thing to do probably would have been when my kids told me that they had met some people in the park who came back to Mommy's apartment, to just say "That's nice." For all that I can do anything about it. Since I am human, I couldn't quite pull that off (I am not beating myself up about this, though).

I called MIL and told her what I knew, because I think they deserve to know how screwed up their daughter is, and that she is allowing their grandchildren to be used. MIL talked with WW yesterday and thinks that she is listening a little bit, which is good. MIL gets it.

And, excellent catch, FB. I'm strong for my W. WW can go to he##.

Tomorrow will be better.

I saw my IC yesterday, and she reiterated much of the advice I got here (avoid contact with WW, don't do drive-bys, don't get too deep into discussions with OMW). I've calmed down and have mostly pulled out of the depressed state. I look forward to getting my kids back today and have been thinking about fun things to do with them.

I'm still working on the whole how-to-think thing.

SDG, I was faced with this the first day my WS moved out, she had OP and my kids over her apartment for a "party" the kids called it. I was freaked. in panic...but then I realized I had zero control over it. it really bites when you cannot do anything to effect change in a situation that causes you pain.

its one thing to say, yes I can stay away from her to protect my heart, but another when your children are thrust into the madness, your papa bear instincts come out. and those are strong. I have though about a restraining order against OP, but then thought that might seem a little "crazy ex-wife"

I don't believe it is healthy for my children to be around OP, and I have no control over it, but what I do have control over is being there for my children. asking them about how they feel about all of this and really listening. IMHO, kids can get through anything if they have the neccessary support. so even if I cannot prevent them from OP exposure, I can help them cope and deal with the horrible things that are happening. thats where my strength comes in, and I know my kids feel that.

sdg, you are not helpless, you just have to rethink your methods and find a new way to accomplish the same goals.




what does this mean, I am intrigued.

I have a really active mind and tend to beat my head against problems until they crack, so trying to figure out what to do with my thoughts has been challenging. "Think about something else" is the easy thing to say but is harder to apply. And so I find myself wondering what kind of self-talk I should be using to deal with the wrongness of this whole situation.

"This situation is temporary. The affair will fall apart, and W will come back to the marriage."

or

"This situation is temporary. I hope the affair will fall apart and W will come back to the marriage. If not, I know that I and the kids will be fine."

or

"This situation is temporary. The affair will fall apart at some point, in the meantime WW can do whatever she wants. I will wait for a while. If she wants to come back to the marriage, I will see whether that's what I want."

or

"This is reality. I should make the best of it and stop thinking about W."

There are subtle differences in these, mostly in terms of how much vulnerability I allow myself but also how open I am leaving the door. I know I'm overanalyzing it, but that's what I do. It's something to figure out for myself, but the most common advice I get (including from Jennifer yesterday) is stop thinking about it and do something else. I get this, but it is hard to apply.

A lot of what I post here is me thinking out loud, trying to get stuff out of my head--a bit like a journal. I think the answer is "Yes, this situation is wrong. Yes, you can see the solution, but only WW can apply the solution, and there isn't anything you can do to make her do that. Plan B is the best thing you can do right now, and it takes time and strength. You need to be strong for your children and your wife and yourself. Thinking about it all the time is going to make you crazy, so don't do it. Don't get involved in things that are going to make you think about WW. Think about your kids and being a great dad for them. Think about (and do) things that will be fun for you. Calm down. Be still. You are doing a great job--the very best that you can, which is all that anyone can do. You are not losing. This is not your fault."

You have answered yourself SD, I couldn't have put it better. I wish I had an answer for you in this, I don't have the Plan B experience but the feelings one has when "alone" are much the same. I've felt them as well. I tell myself that I will make it. I think of why I'm doing it. I tell myself to never give up hope until the ink is dry on the divorce decree. I tell myself that I love my W, not this WW, and I'm suffering for my W because she needs me to rescue her.

I do this everyday, it seems. It's kept me going this long, which is only the beginning. (6 weeks since separation, 1 week since D-Day & exposure)

This too shall pass.

I got an email about kid stuff today. To set it up, my parents are spending a month in a beach condo. The week of President's Day, my son (7) is on spring break. Also, my brother and his family will be here staying at the condo. My son loves his cousins and wants to (and is invited to)spend the whole week at the condo. Monday and Tuesday of that week are "her" days. Here's the email:

"Yes I told DS7 it was ok since he has the week off and he said his cousins were going to be there. I also told him I need to hear from an adult what the plan was which is why I asked you since you are his father I thought maybe you could have mentioned something. As for DD3 it is sort of up to your parents and DD. Of course I would have both of them but since it is a vacation week and according to DS7 the cousins will be there things are different. Do you parents want her that much? Will you be there? Needs more discussion before even offing the option to her. She will probably want to stay there if she knows DS7 is."

She is clearly frustrated that I won't be a happy co-parent with her, but I refuse. I think I will tell my mom that she can work out the details. Any other suggestions?

sdg, what did jennifer say about this type thing??? I am unsure as far as this goes but I can see where WS's would see this as petty and childish. I don't know how I feel about it actually. I believe in MB principles so I am inclined to take it as valuable, but I question it. is it realistic to never have contact with one's spouse where the children are concerned, is it truly in the best interest of the children to have parents that do not communicate? I fully understand the reason for plan B but what if things move along into D? Is it reasonable and beneficial for children to have parents that never collaborate about what is best for them? forever? if not forever, how do you decide what the endpoint is?? if the endpoint is reconcilliation then maybe it is worth it to have a 2 parent house hold. but what if the endpoint is D? how is this putting the children first?

years ago my FBIL did what i now think of as plan B on my SIL. I had never heard of MB...i thought he was being childish.
nobody had any clue what he was doing.....it seemed so odd...it made the family take sides against him....even though she was one who had the affair and filed for divorce.

I don't think a total blackout in Plan B is necessary. I believe that communication about the children is paramount, and should be discussed, WAY ahead of time when NECESSARY. When vacation time hits, HAVE A SCHEDULE, PERIOD. Don't veer from it much, even if the children seem unhappy. IT IS STABILITY, for both the children and YOU.

Now, if you can discuss this over email or through intermediary, and work it out, that is best. No need to meet up. Work with the schedule, and you'll have no real questions here (or excuses...)

That's pretty much what Jennifer said. A total blackout is not realistic, so try to limit contact to email to protect myself. Which is what I'm doing, except for when I get sucked out of it, like last weekend. I am gradually recovering from that, and Jennifer emphasized (like people here) don't expose myself to that kind of mess. Jennifer was actually a lot less draconian about plan B than some. She said a reiteration of the Plan B letter (complete with this is not what I want, the door is open, etc) along with candy from the kids for Valentines day would even be a good idea (so long as I don't resent doing it). Not sure whether or not I will do it.

I have given quite a bit of thought regarding what's in the best interest of the kids with respect to Plan B, and it comes down to short-term good and long-term good. In the short-term, one could make an argument that what would be best for the kids would be for the parents to act like everything is okay so that they can adjust to the situation. This is clearly what WS's want. For me, however, that would be like lying to my kids, and I won't do it. My kids know that I am angry, they know that this is not what I want, they know that I still love their mommy, but they also know that everything will be okay (and that Dad has a plan. I forget whose excellent advice that was. Believer?).

Does this mean that the kids might suffer a little more in the short-term? Probably, but whose fault is that? What she's doing is how many times more destructive than plan B?

And so I subscribe to the long-term good. My WW is clearly a prototypical fogged-out WS, so I'm working plan B, because there's a realistic chance that it will work. Eventually, I will stop doing plan B and switch to plan D, and *then* I know that I can adopt a friendly attitude toward WW, because that will be in the best interest of my kids, and because I don't want to stay angry forever.

I patiently explain to anyone who wants to know what Plan B is and how it works. And how WS's work, too, because no one understands that, either.

I think I could go ahead and be friendly toward her now, which is what she thinks she wants, but it would include me closing the door on the relationship now. And I might go Plan FU in the process.

It sounds like you've got a good handle on your Plan. Like I said, some email contact, strictly business, will help to iron out any childcare and financial issues; other than that, no contact is really best for you, and in the long run, for your children. They will understand what self-respect looks like. They will understand boundaries, because, over time, you will explain things.

I think I have a pretty good handle on what I need to do, but I wish I was better at seeing what's coming. Maybe after the slip last weekend, I won't fall into the trap again. Jennifer gave me some tips for what to do and how to respond and how to think. I'll post them if anyone is interested.

And when I said I wasn't going to be the happy co-parent, I meant the one who smiles with the WS and acts like nothing is wrong. I will co-parent, but it will be via email unless there's an emergency. The kind of stuff she wants to know is what they had for dinner and about sniffles, and if she wants to know that then she should be at home like a good mother would be. Like my W would be. Man, do I miss my W.

Today was the first kid-transfer day that didn't leave me totally bent. Sunday is the only day we have to actually come in contact to transfer, and my mom has been doing the actual transfer part. Three weeks ago I was angry at the whole situation, two weeks ago because WW said "run away" as I left the room when she showed up and then lingered too long, and last week because of them getting the kids together. This week I was determined to not to freak out, and I pulled it off. The transfer was uneventful (I stayed in the car, so no contact).

We came home, then my parents went back to their condo. I did some stuff around the house that I wanted to do. . . but now I am lonely and depressed. The day has been gray and rainy and "cold," which may be contributing, but I really miss my W. I wonder whether I will ever see her again, whether I'm just wasting my time. I have an urge to reach out and . . . what, I don't know. I'm going to resist. I think there may come a time for that, but this isn't it.

no contact is hard remember. maybe you are coming off of the drama. even negative attention is attention from your WW. its like you set your self back into withdrawal.

remember grace under pressure...thats what you are trying to convey. great job. don't assume to know what is happening to her when you have nothing to go on. think of it this way. You are showing her your strength, you don't need her, you are getting on with your life. and you are dying inside. whatever she shows you is not really what is going on inside of her either. don't assume she is living the life of riley. she may show cool exterior but you know your plan B is working. you know it is getting to her. you know that it is!!!



yes, yes yes, post them:)

Any advice you get from Jennifer is most welcomed here, especially for those who haven't counseled yet, or REALLY cannot afford it.

You did great, BTW, with the transfer. It's [email]d@mn[/email] tough, I know, but you can do it.

Yes, yes! Please share!

Just popping in to say..."I hear ya cluckin' big chicken!"

I have almost the exact same feeling with this whole plan B experience. It is almost like I am reading my own thoughts.

Just wanted you to know you are doing great and are on the right track... I'm chugging along right next to you! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

IHC

The thing that was fresh on my mind when I talked with Jennifer was the interaction I had with WW last weekend about them getting our children together (and the fact that OM told OMW it was only about hurting me). I let myself get dragged into it and was depressed for a couple of days afterwards, so most of what Jennifer tried to help me with was what to do when I get triggered.

And we do get triggered. I've seen people just like me on some of the other Plan B threads, getting sucked into their own versions. We will get triggered. WS's are a thoughtless, insane bunch of people at best and will act out of their own pain and insanity frequently, so one piece of advice I am trying to apply myself is

Know what will trigger you so that you can be ready.

Kids are the most obvious triggers, but, as Jennifer points out, we can't protect our kids all the time under the best of circumstances. We need to be ready when we're triggered, because "If I get involved in their stink, I come out stinky. I'm not going to let that happen, because I need to be strong."

Jennifer recommended constructing a cheat sheet--a piece of paper to refer to when we're triggered. When we are triggered, there is a rush of chemicals to the brain telling us to fight or flight, but what we really need to do is calm down and look at the big picture. So the first thing on the cheat sheet is "Breathe." Deep breathing is one of the best ways to calm down. Also exercise and/or music to get yourself some space so that you can get a look at the big picture.

So you get triggered, and you want to engage with the WS to set things right (How could you do this bla bla bla). But ask yourself--

What would the purpose of engaging be?

Why is that important?

And, most importantly,

Will they listen to me?

This was big for me, because I think that if you can stop yourself long enough to go through this thought process, you'll realize that for the vast majority of the times, there isn't any point in engaging. If you start answering yourself that the purpose is "WS needs to see that" then you know engagement will be a waste of time and energy, so don't do it.

Another thing for the cheat sheet is "I am strong and I have perserverence. A day, a week, a month is nothing compared to the next 30 years, and that's what I'm doing this for."

and

"If I waste all my energy getting involved in the muck that the infidels do, there won't be any energy left for my kids, and they need me to be a strong dad."

Some other miscellaneous bits--Keep busy. You can't think about this 24/7, because then it will move too slowly. This can take a long time. My goal is to have the energy to run the race.

and

You don't know when the alien will leave. Don't second guess when or if the affair will break up.

and, finally, this one for when giving up seems easier (Jennifer told me that her client is the marriage, not me. When she told me what follows, I told her that she was very good):

Imagine that it's your daughter's wedding day. You're walking her down the aisle, and you get to the end, and there's another man there waiting to kiss her, because she has had a step-father for most of her life.

I hope this helps. Let me know if I can clarify anything.

SDG

A hard couple of days, and I am depressed again. OMW called me and told me that she was on the receiving end of a phone call from WW at 1 am Sat night. WW said that her car had been vandalized and that she knew OMW had done it. Horrible things on both side were said at that point (yes, WW was with OM at the time, and OM had his kids). OMW went over to OM's apartment to collect her kids, but the infidels refused to answer the door and called the police instead.

OMW claims to have not done vandalism and doesn't even know if any took place. So, was this just a ruse to make OMW look crazy in a custody battle? Is my WW that far gone? It makes me sick to my stomach. I have seen the alien emerge and say vicious things when she's pushed toward seeing what she has become, so the things that were said don't really surprise me, but this is a lot of madness.

I know the right answer is to stay out of it and am trying to do it. OMW said she only told me so that I would know in case they tried to blame it on me, and I said that I appreciated it. I gave her the pep talk and pointed her (again) at MB resources. She's on the merry-go-round. OM is totally cake-eating, so I told her she needs to either Plan A or Plan B, or, even better, plan A until she's ready to Plan B. Told her that mixing it up with the infidels only gives them fuel to keep the affair going. Told her that it sounds to me like he's not ever going to really leave her, since he still hasn't filed for divorce and told her just days ago that he loves her. I think there's a good chance the whole thing will fold if she can put a good Plan B into place.

But now I need to stay out of it. Getting into the drama and speculation and anxiety just sucks the life out of me. I'm depressed, starting to get sick, still have some back pain, and I can't think of anything that sounds like fun. I get my kids back tonight, so maybe that will cheer me up. Rather, I will attempt to cheer myself up for them.

This sucks.

sdguy,

Today is seemingly a hard day for me too...having many of the same emotions that you are expressing...also trying not to get sucked in...but it is strong suction!!!!

Hope you feel better and have a great day...

IHC