Sounds very respectful.

Would you please consider calling a laywer about any legal option you might have before you send the e-mail?

I hope you managed to have some fun at the party.

~ Marsh

Thanks for the advice and concern. I will consider it. My MIL pointed out that any attempt to legally preclude contact with the OP will accelerate hostilities, and I tend to agree with this. Like Jennifer pointed out to me, it's not like he's a drug dealer. Still, your point is well taken.

I did have fun at the party. Talked to lots of people. In the middle of it, I got a voice mail from the crazy WW (as opposed to the nice WW, who left a VM for my mom that was so pleasant my mom actually wantd to play it for me--not that she's fooled) ranting about how I needed to call her to discuss the kid transfer tomorrow and how she wasn't going to respond to anyone else or an email or a text message. So I calmly thought about it, and then 30 minutes later there was another call, which I also didn't answer, telling me that she expected a reply tonight or she wouldn't bring the kids over it has to be me not my mom bla bla bla. Wow. Weird. So I waited a bit, then called her and calmly said "How about if you drop the kids of at 3?" And she snapped "That'll work for me." And I said okay. I actually gave her a chance to say something else, but she didn't, so I said Bye and hung up.

The VM's were so bizarre I actually played them for one of the neighbors I was talking with. My neighbor listened to my story and agreed with everything I'm doing. It was really nice to get that kind of validation (like it always is here).

It feels like WW is really angry about something and lashing out, but I'm not sure what it's about. Uncertainty over the kid transfer doesn't account for the anger on the phone. Angry about something else? Picking a fight? I won't play. WS's are nuts.

I actually feel pretty good. I hope it lasts.

Didn't last long. Crazy WW called me with a FogRant, and I didn't get off the phone soon enough. Apparently the anger comes from the fact that I called OMW today but the rant was all over the place. She pulled up about everything she could to hurt me, whether it was consistent or made sense or not. I recognize it as a FogRant and am not going to let it hurt me.

I stayed engaged too long, but I made it clear that I don't want to talk to her (because it hurts me). I hung up a couple of times, but she called back. Just another sign of the madness.

sdg...I read in another thread (don't know where or when)
about trying to see anger in WS as a way of them reaching out, trying to connect. (hmmmn, I think it was Marsh)

IMHO, anger is good. any emotion other than acceptance of the status quo I see as movement in the right direction. now, how to stay out of the line of fire?...can't help you with that one...gosh, WS's drain the life out of you, don't they.

keep up the good work/ I like the email. I would be cautious though...I can bet WW will NOT like to be faced with her reality. isn't plan B about letting her see reality on her own?? not serving it up on a platter??

don't get me wrong, it makes me wretch thinking of OM over there with your kids, I can only imagine the emotion that stirs in you. but if you remove yourself (ie: the courts) is he a danger to your kids? how far can you go with this?

I got this email from WW this morning:

Just in case you didn't get what I was trying to tell you last night.

OMW is not as mentally sound as she may appear when you have talked to her. She has been and continues to be physically violent and verbally abusive and not just with OM. She does these things in front of her children because she does not know boundaries. Her inability to control herself in front of her children is the problem. The children do not need to be exposed to such things any longer.

Your talking to her is not significant and really I don't care and it wouldn't be a problem if she didn't need different help than she is getting. Where the problem is, is what she she does after she gets information from you. So I am telling you not to contact her with information regarding OM, me, the kids, any past life stuff. Just don't contact her or accept her calls. Everything causes her to do things that are not in the best interest of her children. Telling her where OM or I am or have been or what the kids said is not helpful.

The four adults here need to act in the best interest of the four children involved with the situation we have. Doing things that will cause more problems is not the way to act. You may not have known how bad her situation is but I am telling you now. Stop telling her things. I have a police report filed and my lawyer would have gone to court last week to get a restraining order against her and as soon as I tell him to do it he will.

We all have paperwork filed with the court and we are free to move on with our lives and all of us should.


Please tell me not to send this as a response:

I will consider what you have said. However,

1) While I wish the best for OM, OMW, and their children, it’s really not my problem

2) If OM is having trouble dealing with the consequences of his (and your) actions, maybe he should have thought about that before having and continuing an affair. If OM knows that his seeing you makes OMW crazy and his kids get affected by it, then he should do the mature thing and stop seeing you until the situation is resolved rather than lie to her and hope she doesn’t find out. That’s what a grown-up father who cared more about his kids than himself would do.

3) The best thing for OMW and OM's children is for the two of them to make a serious attempt at reconciliation (i.e., when there is no affair or contact with the affair partner taking place).

4) I heard what you said on the phone last night about OMW. I also heard you invoking just about everything you could think of to hurt me. It makes me wonder who the unbalanced one really is and is the reason why I don’t want to talk with you.

5) If OMW really is unbalanced, a big part of the reason is what OM has done to her. Let me know how it feels when he starts lying to and cheating on you.

6) If the situation with OMW and OM is as bad as you say, that’s all the more reason for me not to want DS7 and DD3 anywhere near it.

Don't send it.

Dark dark dark.

~ Marsh

Ooops - a few DJ's. I would just tell her that OMW's wife is acting quite normally for a woman whose world is being torn apart by adultery.

And please stop talking to her.

~ Marsh

SD,

Your problem is that you refuse to go completely dark. Just ignore your WW. I don't care how many emails, voicemails, or TMs she sends you. Obviously it bothers her when you ignore her. She expects that you will cave and just be a happy coparent, and you are reaffirming that in her mind. She does not want you to completely shut her out. Shutting her out is the only thing that will get her to truly understand the consequences of her actions. She still feels that she has the upper hand and all of the control. You need to snatch that control from her. Who cares if she doesn't want you to talk to OMW? She's screwing around on you, but she won't let you talk to someone about what you are doing? Who the he11 does she think she is? She doesn't like dealing with the consequences of her actions. Talking to OMW exposes her to those consequences. Ignore your WW. Don't say another d*mn word to her until she agrees to the conditions of your plan B letter. Any interactions you have with her only hurts your chances. Agreeing to shield her from the consequences of her actions (talking to OMW) only hurts your chances. Completely cut this toxic WW out of your life, stand up for yourself, and take back the control in your relationship. Don't let her manipulate you any more. If you email her back anything, it should be your plan B letter. Don't you see how much your plan B is working when she gets furious that you won't respond to her? Don't shoot yourself in the foot by caving to her demands.

The better you execute plan B, the quicker this will all be over.

Oh, I forgot, Plan B. Marsh is right, stay dark.

It really makes me CRAZY when an adulteress has the nerve to criticise how her victim is behaving.

Okay, guys.

Dark. Typing it was therapeutic. I knew not to send it (and won't). And I knew I shouldn't have taken the call last night. I'll try not to make that mistake again.

I would say Thanks for the responses!, but that doesn't cover how much appreciation I feel for them. This is so hard. I really appreciate everyone's advice.

I get the kids back today for a whole week (because my brother and his family are visiting). It should be very good for me.

You said in an earlier post that you needed the roller coaster to go back up...

DARK, DARK, DARK

In plan b, there is no other way to keep off the roller coaster but to go very dark. Stop answering her calls, keep on pressing in with your intermediary...you can win this battle for control, that is what it is...a struggle for who is in control of the situation That person is you! Do not let her take it from you!

You and I are both struggling with this...we have both had times where things started going smoothly and we had clear heads...they bait us and when we pop up out of the dark, we expose ourselves and end up back on the ride.

I am struggling with the exposure to OW right now as well and I am not sure exactly how to handle it, but I am trying to be calm and not react.

I think it is very hard with younger children because they are so open to people. My older ones will most likely reject interaction with her, but my babies don't have that in them yet. But, I still have to rely on the fact that I am doing my best for them when they are with me. I have no control over their visitation with the alien!

IHC

sdg...your responses to her were so real ...for all of us here. but remember what jennifer said??? she will not hear it. no sense in wasting wonderful thought on the deaf! great job at posting it here instead of to her. you are doing better than I am...stay strong. dark, dark, dark.
hard, hard , hard

Hey sdguy,

Just wanna let you know that I've been reading your posts, but not really responding. As you know, I'm also going through plan B and everything still seems to be unfolding, so I don't really think I'm qualified to give advice...but just wanna let you know that you and your kids have been in my thoughts.

Also, I live in the same city as you...is it awful of me to wonder if I might have seen your WW and want to lecture her and let her have it? ...maybe I could talk some sense into her! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> As I stop by somewhere, I wonder, hmmm, have I met her before?...would sdguy mind if I told her she was being irrational and stupid?! hah! JK...I would never really do that...just fantasy thoughts <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Just wanna let you know, keep up with plan B, you can do it...and supposedly (from all of you here <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> ...it works!

hey guy

my H also tried this on me

he told me that the OWH was abusive and that he was going to come after me....he tried to make me afraid for my safety

when that didn't phase me, he said "do you want him to hurt ME? because that's what he will do if you tell him about me"

now THAT almost worked because of course i still love him and didn't want him to get hurt

OW also called and left me messages about her crazy H and she threatened me herself......"you have no business contacting my H. If you do, it's at your own risk because he's crazy."

(i have no business contactng her H but she has a right to have an A with mine??? just plain bonkers!)

and then she said "if you can't stay out of my life, you and i are going to go at it."

then when i did call and leave him a message for him to call me, my H and ow each called me screaming that by telling him i was involving her children


....my h actually screamed like a crazy man...."i'm so ashamed of you, involving her children and you are a teacher. A TEACHER!"

you see guy.......

these people in the A will do and say ANYTHING that they think will work to get you stop making waves for them.....they will play on your sympathies...even use children to guilt you into stopping

if they cared about the children more than the A, they would stop the A. that is what hurts the children

anything to keep the "fantasy land a happy place to be"

so ignore her....the more upset she is about your contacts with her H, the more trouble it must be causing in A land

and DON'T contact her....don't send an e-mail, don't call, don't see her!

show her that nothing she says or does while she is still involved in this A matters to you

contacting her can do you no good....you WILL NOT get through to her.....but YOU WILL let her know that she is getting to you

don't let her win

this must be making a difference or she wouldn't care about the contacts

this is good!

but i'll ask you what was asked to me

Why are you taking e-mails from her at all? this will only keep you involved in the madness. Why isn't your intermediary screening her messages?

Please don't say you don't have an intermediary!

Jennifer harley told me that plan B will NOT be successful if you don't allow your WS to see what life will be like if you aren't in it! completely! just like you would be if you were D.

Please listen to the others here who are not emotionally invested in your situation and can see rationally which allows them to give you good advice.

You guys are right. The Plan B is working.

It was time for kid exchange today, and my parents arrived in time to facilitate, so I went out to the hardware store. When WW arrived and saw that I wasn't there, she was furious (said in front of kids And he won't even stay here when I come). Slamed doors, slammed the kids stuff down, muttered under her breath. Sheesh.

Then about 40 minutes later she calls the house. I don't have caller ID, so I took the call. She asks me what she should do with the brownies the kids made last night--like it's important. The only explanation I can think of for this call is that plan B is working.

I'll have to rethink the intermediary thing. Jennifer seems okay with me communicating by email, but if it gets out of hand, I'll stop looking at it.

FB, thanks for validating my responses. Sometimes it's hard to apply your own advice even when you know it's the right thing to do.

Thanks to eav, believer, MM, Jim, IHC--everyone who responded today. DW, I didn't realize we're in the same city. I'll have to get caught up again on your thread. There are some times when I can only stand to deal with my own stuff.

sdguy,

Don't talk to her anymore. Stop picking up the phone, let it go to the machine, let voicemail screen your calls. DO NOT TALK TO HER ANYMORE.

Regardless of what your WW states about OMW, you know that his wife is in h3ll; you know what pain she is living in. I wish, for her sake, she would do a Plan B on her WH, but you can only DO for yourself and your family.

Also, being dark means very little communication, if any. Without an intermediary, I know this is hard. I think your WW isn't really getting the jist of Plan B, so you may want to resend the letter, with a reiteration of NO CONTACT with her. NONE, NIL, ZIP, BUPKISS. None of the correspondence that you have communicated here has been an EMERGENCY, nor really of even HIGH IMPORTANCE (Brownies, I mean, Come ON!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> )

Cut her out of your daily life. You see how much she can't stand the loss of the ILLUSION that is CONTROL. Bring it on home with complete silence. Just because she poses a question does not mean that you have to answer (especially about brownies... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />)

You are doing well, just keep your hand from picking up that receiver, let the machine get it...

sadguy

Jennifer gave me the okay to e-mail with my H also

eventually though, his e-mails became too painful and i got an intermediary

um, you need to get caller ID, its only a few bucks a month and it will be worth it. do you have cable?? LOL
just kidding!!!!!!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Yes, I have cable! Not that I've watched any TV lately. I think I'll just stop answering the house phone. And the cell screens.

I feel better today. I'm planning to recraft my plan B letter and send it as an email. The other one had too much 'we can rebuild it . . . make it better. . . faster. . . stronger' stuff in it, and, while I still feel that way, it's not the message that needs to be sent right now. WW has told me in no uncertain terms that she has no intention of ever coming back and that she would be gone even if OM wasn't around (usually when she's angry or being pushed, so it's Foggy), so to keep reminding her of the possibility will make me come across as needy, I think. I will, as per Jennifer's instructions, end with 'This is not what I want. The door is still open.'

But in the middle I'm going to stress no talking except in cases of emergency. I intend to be a cooperative co-parent, but I believe that can be accomplished via email/TM or via an intermediary if you would prefer. I'll make the point that the contact hurts me, and I need to protect myself. It's not about punishment.

And I'm thinking about the Dobson line someone was referring to the other day: "You're free to do whatever you want, but don't expect me to be your friend" or something like that. Anyone remember? BobPure had some good words along these lines at one point, but I can't remember where I saw them.

Any other suggestions?