sdguy, you are doing very well!

Look at the UNPROVOKED reaction you got from your WW through her email. I think it's great and fully foggy how her expectations are so NUTS. Hmmmm, don't talk about me behind my back, WHY NOT? Also, what makes her think that the OMW vandalised the vehicle in question; couldn't it have been one of OMW's friends, who was PO'd enough to do it?

No response is the right response. She is defending herself against the TRUTH, and that is HILARIOUS. THEY just don't get it, nope, nosiree, THEY just don't get it. Hey, THEY still don't get it, even when in early recovery, so don't think that changes right away. It's still all about the wayward then, too...

That email WW sent is basically a rebuttal to the one I sent to MIL. In there, I said something like I hope the WS's aren't just trying to provoke us into doing things that could be used against us in a custody battle, but one has to wonder. That's where the bit about provocation comes from.


Should I be concerned about this line? I know the bit about the affair and our marriage problems being unrelated is typical Fogspeak (and total BS), but I've heard variations on "You and I will never be together" several times over the past few months (usually when she's angry, I guess). Is this also typical? Does it have any other significance? For example, if it was a sign that it was going to take an extra year for her to come out of the fog, I don't think I would wait around for that. I think the answer is that it's all Fogspeak and that I should stop letting it get to me, but I'm interested in other opinions if they are out there.

In the mean time, I'm dark.

If you remain dark, you will get your answers. You may find that you do not want her back and begin the process of moving on; you may find that Plan B is good solace for you, and you will stay in it for a while to condition yourself for moving on.

I would let you intermediary know that you will no longer receive any EMAIL or correspondence that isn't about the children ONLY. This type of babble is what you don't need to hear, and it diminishes the love that you have stored.

The line you reference sounds like blah blah blah to me. If she didn't leave you for OM, why is she WITH OM? Seriously, now, COME ON! Justification is the name of the game.

I distinctly remember my WH telling me that he was unhappy WAY before he had the A; then he turned around recently and talked about how GREAT we had it, and how we could again. He's a bit fogged up in withdrawal right now, but I think he does still believe this.

Again, I just suggest that STRICTLY business emails occur between you two. Filter out the other stuff...

IMHO this is just a little bit of WW saying "don't show me reality, I am loving the fantasy world I have created in my mind"
By saying your M is over she is trying to get you to stop NC with her and reach out and talk to her. she may really believe it, but remember she is in fogland. if she can get you to engage and talk coparent all nicey nice, then WW can relieve some of her guilt. she is feeling bad...thats why all the venom. let her feel bad...she should, look what she is doing.

All these %*)%)#%(# say the same things. To ****** with what she wants or thinks!

No, don't be concerned about it.

It is fog speak, but if she usually says it when she is angry then it's also about hurting you....or manipulating you.

Don't read anymore of her e-mails. They will drain you. You will NOT be missing out on anything by not reading them.

You ARE getting to her.

She was delighted to have the e-mail you sent her mom as a reason to try to reach you.

She will be VERY disappointed that you aren't responding to her.

Stay dark.

~ Marsh

SD,

I am temporarily out of lurkdom at the request of Marsh. Plus my voyeurism often gets the best of me, especially when it comes to communications like your WW's.

She is really angry, no surprise to you.

I don't know if you know my posts, but part of what my degree entails and what my job entails is the analysis of communication. So, here's my 2 cents' worth.

When a person uses the word "but", it essentially erases everything said before that. So, she says, "Not that it's any of your business, but..." - this means that it IS your business, and she proceeds to tell it to you.

If it were truly NOT your business, the email would be simply stated, "SD, this is none of your business, so stay out of it." She doesn't do that. She goes on with more, which is probably more revealing.

She states that she "wasn't at OM's house when OMW came to his house" and then shortly thereafter makes the statement which includes the phrase "whether I was there or not". This is evidence of what I would call a "near lie", or that she is stating the EXACT truth in order to cover something that if she were to state the WHOLE truth it would reveal something she does not want you to know. My guess is that she had been there just prior to OMW coming over, or showed up shortly around this time. The fact that she says "whether I was there or not" is an attempt at justification of some action on her own part which was not appropriate - and pointing the blame at OMW. Your WW was in fact, on the scene at whatever event she is referring to, at some point (I haven't read the thread, so I don't know the details!). She just wasn't there EXACTLY when OMW showed up.

The fact that she has "heard some things" that you supposedly told OMW is important - she is listening to what you have to say through others. But, in Plan B, you are supposed to be dark, remember? Not supposed to even talk about her.

She has one paragraph about how you shouldn't talk about her to others, you should talk to her, etc. Clearly, Plan B is bugging her. She WANTS you to talk to her. And, she's trying to get you to email her back..."I thought you were composing an email to me".

I'm not sure what to make of the line about not being together again. It is very out of context, seems thrown in as an afterthought, out of anger. More of a punch at you, rather than with true meaning. Usually, when people say things like this, there's more than just one line. They don't just say, "move on" and stop at that. There's more to it than that, more emotion, more need to say things that have more expression and meaning. I would place that in the column of "she's hitting at me to try to hurt me" and let it go. Seems like your Plan B is heating up.

Hang in there.

Schoolbus

Thanks very much, Schoolbus. I know who you are and (more or less) what you do, so I am very appreciative to have you looking at this. Can I trouble you to look at another one, sent about a week earlier? I'll paste it below.

Regarding the me talking about her, I edited a sentence from her email about things that she has heard. It said 'She does not need to know about when I first had sex.' A couple of months ago, I was talking with OMW and it came out that WW and I were each others' only sexual partners. The ironic part is that it only came out because of something OM said to OMW about me (that wasn't true) that I decided to clarify. Another one of those opportunities to correct the facts and rub her nose in the truth if I were willing to engage with WW, which I'm not.

Here's the other email, which came the morning after several late night phone calls:

"Just in case you didn't get what I was trying to tell you last night.

OMW is not as mentally sound as she may appear when you have talked to her. She has been and continues to be physically violent and verbally abusive and not just with OM. She does these things in front of her children because she does not know boundaries. Her inability to control herself in front of her children is the problem. The children do not need to be exposed to such things any longer.

Your talking to her is not significant and really I don't care and it wouldn't be a problem if she didn't need different help than she is getting. Where the problem is, is what she she does after she gets information from you. So I am telling you not to contact her with information regarding OM, me, the kids, any past life stuff. Just don't contact her or accept her calls. Everything causes her to do things that are not in the best interest of her children. Telling her where OM or I am or have been or what the kids said is not helpful.

The four adults here need to act in the best interest of the four children involved with the situation we have. Doing things that will cause more problems is not the way to act. You may not have known how bad her situation is but I am telling you now. Stop telling her things. I have a police report filed and my lawyer would have gone to court last week to get a restraining order against her and as soon as I tell him to do it he will.

We all have paperwork filed with the court and we are free to move on with our lives and all of us should."

Thanks again for your (and everyone's) insights! Much appreciated. This is really hard.

((( sd )))

As I am not an expert, I really have no advice for you.
Plus, there is only room in my mouth for one foot at a time.

Thank you so much for *posting* my reply over on Eav's thread. That was very thoughtful of you.

For what it is worth - I have placed you on my Prayer List.

Sincerely, Carnation

SD,

She wrote after several phone calls? Boy, she really doesn't like Plan B.

The gist of the letter gives you her "side" that:

1. OMW is out of control, and violent
2. You are not to talk to her
3. OMW is really causing the A some problems (good for her!)
4. There are several veiled threats of legal action - however, I do not believe them. They are too vague, and likely lies - if they were real, WW would have provided more details, I suspect - especially with regard to the restraining order against OMW, I wonder about why they have not already filed, if the paperwork is already prepared. This threat and the "holding off" on action tells me that something just doesn't ring true here. If OMW were as dangerous as WW says, then go ahead and file, what's stopping this?
5. Generally, the constant "in the interest of the children" seems used because there isn't anything besides the "OMW is nuts" rationale. I don't see a reason for you not to talk to OMW besides these two reasons, and not much evidence besides the fact that your WW doesn't like dealing with the OMW and the fallout/consequences of the A......


Seems like your WW doesn't like Plan B too much. All of this contact with you, attempts to draw you in to the battlefield, etc. Your best plan would be to NOT respond at all. That will make her really aggravated, because she knows how to deal with you when you are fighting (because her letters consistently draw you there - so she knows how to do that in her communications); she is in a comfort zone with fighting with you. Don't let yourself get drawn into that by responding.

Instead, wait it out. Because her next way of talking to you will be lovey-dovey - if fighting won't work, she will go back to using her feminine wiles. Watch for it.

SB

Many thanks. I'm not responding and am going to begin having her email screened.

The several phone calls was really one long FogRant that started on the topic of the OMW and strayed to several other things that she could hurt me with (or pick a fight with me). I hung up a couple of times and she called me right back. Now I screen my phone calls, too.

I have seen the nice WW (as opposed to crazy WW), now that you mention it. I hadn't realized that was what it was about, though.

Thanks again. FWIW, I promise to never complain about your (or anyone else's, for that matter) advice, so lurk here any time.

SD,

You can complain all you want - but remember, you just get what you pay for!

My mindset for the last few weeks has been kind of down. I couldn't take the bickering going on over on one of the threads, so I escaped for awhile. Stopped posting as much, and stopped reading so much. I feel better now.

You know, the rollercoaster. It's just that I can only take so much, and I have to protect myself these days - I learned from a young age when to pull back.

Your WW is pretty easy to read - when you look at what she writes to you, just break down the sentences she writes (no, this will not work for anyone, but for your WW it will because her style fits a very nice pattern). She tends to write in opposing phrases - for example, she will state at the start of a sentence that things are one way, and then proceed to contradict herself in the next phrase of the same sentence.

"It's none of your business but,...."

You can easily see those markers, by finding the conjunctions (but, although, however, and, words like this). Those are the sentences that will tell you whether or not she is conflicted - if what she says before the conjunction agrees with what she says afterwards, if it makes sense and they go together, then you are reading the truth and the meaning is valid. If not, then you are reading something different than what is being stated.

Also, lies in her case are very easy to spot. She is not logical - she gives you information that is thin, vague, and doesn't really sound right. Additionally, her lies are lies of OMISSION - she gives enough truth so that she can be telling just the truth, the exact truth, but she leaves out the "rest of the story" which leads you to a full understanding of what the facts really are. Watch for her to say very SPECIFIC things, and those specific things don't add up to giving you what you need to understand - if you have to, ask for a step-by-step detail of events from her (if you ever get to the point of talking about things with her again). Don't let her skip past anything, and ask for the timelines of events, because I sense that the tendency will be to leave out things that will not cast her in a good light or will not support her story. In her current state of mind, she's not "lying", but she's also not telling the truth either.

I hope this helps you.

SB

My DS7's baseball season starts tomorrow. I am an assistant coach for the team and will be at as many of the games as I can make it to. I asked my son how he wanted to work the games when they fall on days when he's with WW, and he said he wants me to take him. So I conveyed this to WW via email along with the schedule. She agreed with what I proposed but just emailed me to ask where the games are. I guess this means she is planning to come to at least some of them. It's not unexpected, I guess, but I hadn't given any thought to how to deal with it.

Ignore her? Polite hello and then ignore her?

She's probably finding out right about now that I have requested separate parent-teacher conferences. Yep. There's the phone call. Deleted the voice mail without listening to all of it because the tone was poisonous. Hope this doesn't get ugly.

Ignore.

No hello.



Well done.

Any idea what she's pi$$ed at now?

~ Marsh

Oh, you think she's sore b/c you set up a separate conference?

LOL

She was counting on making contact w/ you there.

~ Marsh

I'm pretty sure it's about the conference. I told his teacher (who knows everything) a while ago I wanted separate conferences. I had the kids Wed and Thurs, and the conference notes came home in the Wednesday envelope. There were two notes. I took one and on the other one I wrote "I'm doing a separate conference." Then I put this along with the other stuff of kid transfer. It would have sat at Day Care for most of the day. WW would have picked the kids up at around 6, gotten home, and presumably gone through the stuff at, say, 6:30. The first call came in at about 6:45.

It was an angry voicemail, so I deleted it and sent the following text: Use tm or email unless emergency.

Then I called my intermediary. While I was talking to her, I got a text-message, quickly followed by a voice mail. The text message was empty (because she must have gotten mad while composing and then switched to voice mail). I listened to the first part of the voice mail, which was angry, so I deleted it, too.

Then I sent this email:

"I know that things could be very different between us,
which is part of what makes this so hard.

My concern is now for our children. You are free to do
whatever you choose, but do not expect me to be your
friend while you openly hurt me with Brant. In order
to protect myself, I intend to neither see nor talk
with you. I will be a cooperative co-parent for our
children, but I believe that any communication
required can be conducted via email or text-messaging
(or through an intermediary, if you prefer). I will,
of course, respond to voice contact in the case of
emergency. (If you leave me voice mails and I don't
like their tone, I will delete them without listening
to them, so in case of emergency, you may want to
start the message stating that.)

This is not about punishment--this is about protecting
myself, the kids, and you from this situation.

I will be happy to resume regular communication with
you once your affair with Brant is ended once and for
all. This is not what I want. The door is still open
for us to rebuild our lives and be happy together."

and one after it telling her that I had deleted the voice mails without listenening to them because I did not like their tone.

Now I have two new voice mails. You think they will be pleasant?

I forgot that I sent her a one-word text message: email, so the last voice mail was her pleasantly telling me that she would check email sometime tonight.

Storm yet to come.

And, yeah, I think just ignore.

QUIT COMMUNICATING WITH HER!!!

Ignoring her is MUCH more powerful.

LOL

Plan B is killing her!



Ummmm, I doubt it.

If they don't begin w/ "This is an emergency!" Don't listen to them.

That e-mail you sent was the perfect way to reply to her.

Now, let her hear crickets chirping....

Dark dark dark

~ Marsh

I have two small kids, so not communicating at all just isn't an option. She didn't understand the rules before, so I clarified them. In case there was any actual information in the voice mails she sent me earlier (doubtful), she needed to know that it wasn't getting transmitted. The email is being screened, and I don't think she has the patience to type a whole lot of poison into a text message.

I feel pretty strong. Need to eat something, though.

I wonder if she will be angry enough to bring OM to a baseball game. I think I am ready for it if she does.