Thanks, all, especially for the communication analysis. I guess it means that Plan B is working and that I should keep it up.

I did call her back, but of course it was nothing she couldn't have left in a VM or email. I don't know. Me not being willing to see her brought out crazy WW, and the argument she had with my mom has me triggered (like the email does). All these responses I would like to make:

She says I need to get some pants (as in I'm not a man). R: Some day you will figure out who has been wearing pants the whole time and who hasn't, or else you will live in denial for the rest of your life, and God help our children if that happens.

She says I won't be able to take care of the kids after my parents leave. R: What makes you think that? If anything, I will take them more so that you can spend more time with OM, because that seems to be your only priority. There's no comparison as to who the better parent is.

She says that she is doing a good job with the kids. R: Ask any ten people you care to whether bringing your affair partner around your kids starting one month after moving out is a good idea. If you get one of them to say yes, I will be surprised. You are not a good mother. I expect that a judge would agree with me.

She says (in response to my mother's comment) that she is not a married woman and that what she's doing is not wrong. R: Huh? We're not divorced. If you want to be not married, why haven't you completed the divorce?

My mom is fine--she says she may have picked the fight a little bit. She certainly didn't shy away from it and gave as good as she got.

I'm not sure how to play it. I think MM's and believer's advice is maybe the right way to go. Try to avoid it, but talk to her when it's about the kids, because otherwise she's going to figure out a way to lash out and trigger me. And, as you can probably hear, I'm running out of patience.

I'm looking at this going on for a long time, and I'm starting to think about dating. Talk to a service and explain my situation--that I'm not looking for anything serious; just companionship--and see what happens. Someone remind me why this is not a good idea.

I appreciate the support SO much!

sdg, at this point it seems like such a power struggle...the longer it goes on..the more vile she will get...and the more crap you will have hear and your mother too.

why not just call and listen to what she says, but if she gets vile tell her you wont listen until she is calm. it might just save you a bit of sanity. but be prepared to insulate your self first. JMHO

SD,

If she made all those comments to you on the phone and you didn't respond to them you did great!

I'm going to put out a shout out to Mortarman for you. He worked a great Plan B w/ his wife, maybe he can give you some tips on how to deal w/ ball games and such.

Schoolbus is fantastic at this stuff. Now you know what your WW's plans are. Good to know. Now go back to not reading her e-mails. They are getting to you. Thank God for Plan B.



Please don't do this. Your kids really need one sane parent who is focused on them. Getting involved w/ someone else at this point is a very bad idea. Right now you are hoping to recover your marriage, how would finding companionship w/ OW help THAT? You may say you are only doing it for companionship, but you know what will happen when ENs start getting met.

Join a support group, a gym, a church...find ways to meet your own ENs.

Be the hero your kids need you to be.

~ Marsh

------Translation: "Nanny-nanny-boo-boo, I'm going to make it so you HAVE to see me. Made you look, made you look. I'm touching you!!!!!!"

schoolbus LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

sdg...you know my plan B has been weak, and I am thanking you for the help I need to make it stronger.

I do talk to WS infrequently about the kids,(same reason, if they were sick.) but she is actually starting to respect my request for no other conversation, she knows I don't want it and so far the few times we have had to talk have been short and to the point.

but I wonder whether it will calm your WW down at all, she seems pretty enraged...which is good I guess but you need to stay out of the fire. I feel anxious just reading all that crap, I can only imagine what this has stirred in you.

great idea posting your responses here. its just a lot of fog, you know that...but it still hurts doesn't it..this is wht you are in plan B to protect your love for her...
stay strong, tomorrow will be better...I hope

Listen to Marsh.....go running, weight lifting, bike riding, movies, male friends but no dating for even companionship. You will regret it. I didn't do it and when it was finally over I felt so much better about me for handling things the way I did.

They weren't on the phone--it was stuff she said to my mom. It spins around in one's head all the same, though. Triggers are triggers.


Thanks, Marsh. That's what I was looking for.

I'll try to calm down and not the crazy WS get to me. It just gets really hard. When the consistent message is rejection and 'you're weak for not accepting the rejection' it really makes it hard to not just give in. WW is not worth it.

But my children are.

SDGuy...howdy!

Seems like you are fully engaged with a WW that does not like Plan B! I had one of those (who, by the way, is now home with me, in love with me, and almost three months pregnant with our fourth child).

Now, that being said...I have been in your shoes!!! While in Plan B, dealing with a WW can be tough. But it is managable! Let me start with soem ground rules, okay? (By the way, the folks here so far have been giving you EXCELLENT advice!)

First off, you do understand Plan B and what it is for, right? I havent read your entire thread yet...but just want to make sure you understand that Plan B is for YOU!! That last interaction you had with your wife, when you gave in and called her...is exactly why contact has to be eliminated or minimized. I will go into "how" in a moment. But, when things digressed into a talk about the relationship, parenting, OM, etc...then you have left Plan B...and she got exactly what she wanted!! In a way she is right about the "wearing the pants" comment. But she is wrong on "why" that comment applies!

That comment applies because that basis of a WW doing what she is doing is that she does not respect you! Please read the link at the bottom of my post for more information on the roles of husbands and wives. But in short, a wife loves her husband because she respects him. A wife that respects her husband does NOT engage in adultery!

Now that she has engaged in it, you have laid down the law (which is GOOD!) and gone to Plan B. But the problem is that everytime you let her off of abiding by the rules, then you are saying to her "I do not mean what I say." And thus, the disrespect continues!!

I wont go over the long sordid deal of my sitch...but last summer, we went to court (for the second time) to start the divorce process. My wife moved out and we ended up in court, with me winning most of the time with the kids and a good judgment on custody, etc. For the next three months, I went completely dark. There were exactly 4 times that we had any type of verbal contact with each other during that time. Oh sure, she tried more times. But I refused all contact.

I coach my sons' baseball teams as well. When she came to a game last August (with my MIL), I completely ignored she was there. I said nothing to her! After the game, my youngest son sat down and said he wasnt feeling well. My wife walked up to see what was the matter and began talking to our son. She looked at me and tried to tell me something about how to care for him (she is a nurse) or something like that. At that point, I just said "son, we gotta go. We'll get some medicine for you when we get home." And I turned and started grabbing my gear and headed for the car.

No discussion happened. No eye contact happened. She was just another fence pole out there!

SDGuy, you are going to have to shut down communications here. As I said, there were 4 times. Once, she came out on the practice field and commenced to yell at me with everyone around. I just sat there and listened, not looking at her. Of course, I did make a smal mistake when I said "You are a piece of work." But besides that, I was silent. She then left in a huff.

Man, I wanted to lay into her...but I didnt. I ignored her. But it still hurt, and still drained me! The next day, m yattorney gets a fax from her attorney, stating that I am forcing her to bring the boys to their baseball, and that I was being verbally abusive towards her. Of course, I had 20+ witnesses that saw me under control and barely say one sentence. In the meantime, she made herself out to look bad.

So, what to do in your sitch? Well, like with this last incident...when she said she wouldnt deal with your mom concerning your sick son...did you really need to call her back?? did you? I dont think so. You could evaluate your son's status, and if need be, take him to the doctor. It was not important that you get that information.

Now, let's say she does start in one day where she catches you by surprise and starts saying "SD, our son is taking this medicine and needs it 4 times a day, blah, blah, blah." Know what you do? Nothing! You say NOTHING! You dont look her in the eye. You dont comment. When she is done talking, you hang up or walk away. Now, when you need to tell her about the medicine...then you use the appropriate avenues that you have outlined (email/tm/etc).

You MUST take this all down to the basics. She does NOT respect you! And you need to make sure that every action, every thing you do, is thought about and checked against the principle of "does this help her or hinder her from respecting me?"

You cannot make rules, and then give in! You must hold the line, establish boundaries...and mean it! I know it is tough, with children and all! But it is doable. I know, because I did it.

She isnt going to cooperate. But she doesnt need to. The only person that you can change is YOU. And once you change, everyone else around you MUST change in order to deal with the changed you.

You have done well. But, you need to battle harder and shut her down. She hates Plan B!! Its like light to a vampire.

Do not spare her the consequences of her actions.

Thanks, Mortarman

I get the thing about respect and agree with you. I think the lack of respect comes from me not being willing to move on. Statements like 'the door is still open' and 'it hurts to see you' make me seem weak in her eyes, I think, but these are direct from Jennifer. I'm not sure how these help build respect.

Not to call back yesterday was my instinct, and it was right. There was nothing in what she said that couldn't have been communicated in a vm or email. I can do a hard-nosed Plan B. I am mentally prepared to completely ignore her upon sight and can walk away without engaging.

It gets confusing and hard to keep my eye on the ball. It's so easy to lose focus when I get triggered into anger or (worse, and more common) depression.

My lawyer called me today to tell me that the court has scheduled a 'status conference.' That triggered anxiety for me, because will it prompt WW to go ahead with D? Will the D go ahead on its own?

WW knows I talked with OMW (a while ago) about the status of their divorce case and whether or not OM had filed against OMW. WW said that OM has talked with a lawyer and because OMW filed against OM last year and that the case was still open, OM didn't need to file against OMW. But OMW dismissed the case, so OM and OMW currently have no case open. I don't know the timing of the dismissal (before or after OM talked with lawyer), but it's tempting to put this information into WW's hands. I think dark plan B is better.

It's really hard. All the drama just stirs up anxiety and depression for me.

sdguy,

I wouldn't go wading in the dating pool so soon. Wait until you have a D, wait until you are READY. You ARE NOT ready. You may crave companionship, but you would do a disservice to anyone wanting a R. You would not be able to commit. Not many people join a dating service until they are at their wits end. Yes, some do to just troll for booty, but most are looking for a mate.

Go out with friends, fulfill YOURSELF. You don't need anyone else in order to be happy.

Your Plan B is working, so stay off of the phone. No calls. No need.

Thanks, SL, for reminding me of what I really already knew.

You guys really think the Plan B is working?

Man, my confidence is shot.

No, no. Moving on would be a sign of weakness. Wondering what it is you are upto will present strength upon you. But defending the marriage will ALWAYS bring respect upon you!


These are just place marks! They are references to who you are...that you will defend the honorable (the marriage) over the dishonorable (the adulterous relationship). Of course, you dont say it all of the time. You also dont say it to manipulate! It is said as an honest fact.


Excellent! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />


If your wife was a heroin addict, how would you feel? What would you do? This addiction is no less insidious! You need to understand that she is NOT of her right mind right now. You are combatting the WW...but you love your wife. Keep that in mind. Understand that deep down, your wife still exists. This person that looks like your wife is an addict. if your wife said, while drunk, that she didnt love you...would you give much credence to it? Of course not! So dont pay much attention to what this "drunk" has to say!


Dunno. But talk to your attorney. What state are you in? Are you keeping track of everything...journaling everything? If not, get in down! Also, since she is an addict and sees fit to expose your children to unhealthy situations (e.g. the OM), you shouldnt be trying to share custody. You should be trying to protect your children from this abusive behavior! Taking the children into an immoral situation is not healthy for them! Courts do not look highly on WSs that do this! You need to make sure you journal everything, get all the intel you can on her immoral behavior and on her habits, etc with the kids.


WSs and OPs lie...even to each other!


It'll come out! Dont you do it. Stay dark! If anything, have the OMW inform her or someone else that you know of that will not implicate you. You need to be dark to her. She doesnt need to know that you priovided her the info!


Are you on meds? If not, get on them!! Second, are you a Christian? If so, I have some further advice!

I'm sorry to hear about the confidence, but that is what darkness is good for, rebuilding YOUR confidence, in yourself. Your time in Plan B has been challenged REGULARLY by your WW, and will be for some time, I believe. Be firm. Invest your love in yourself and your children. Stay the course and leave the DRAMA behind. It's unnecessary drivel...

I know this most of the time. She seems so lucid at times, though, and so determined. I haven't seen any sign of my W for a long time (not that I've been looking). She's so far gone.


I am medicated, but I think it needs an adjustment. I have an appt tomorrow. I also think that I am not religious enough to get much out of any advice along that line, but I certainly appreciate your asking and advice offered.

SL, the confidence comes and goes--all part of the roller coaster. My parents agree that I am better, and I know what I need to do to continue to get better. I appreciate occasional hand-holding and encouragement, though.

Her constant criticism/attacks are a cover for HER shame. She trying to cover her shame by manipulating you via these attacks.

Don't defend yourself to her or to yourself, b/c once you do that, you've taken that shame upon yourself. And that is what is making you ache for some relief...(EN filling Companionship)

Next time she does this to you, remind yourself that you have nothing to be ashamed of. Her attacks tell about HER..not you.

I stand in awe of men like you, Hope & Pray and Mortarman.

I really do.

~ Marsh

Big time!

If she is so happy w/ OM, why is she getting this upset b/c you are w/drawing from her?

The truth is, it feels as though you have broken up w/ her. And it hurts her. Even though she is w/ OM, she is still very much attached to you. She doesn't want to give up either one of you. She'd like to keep cake eating. But, you've put a stop to it, and she doesn't like it. It IS making her miserable.

Batten down the hatches like MM suggests doing, b/c she's going to turn up the heat to get you to quit.

~ Marsh

Thanks, Marsh (and everyone). The reassurance and hand-holding helps me stay focused.


So, she doesn't know this, right? Or she's in denial about it? She certainly doesn't seem to be afraid of losing me.

ACTIONS, my dear, ACTIONS speak louder than words. What kind of person sends text messages at 2am? Not someone who is confident in their decisions. She is not confident, so she draws you in, to help her to feel as if she has some control over the sitch. That she still HAS YOU.

You've taken that away; you drew that line in the sand, and said no! She may not seem like she's afraid of losing you, and right now, in her fog, she may have convinced herself that she is trying to get YOU to back off, but all outsiders KNOW that it's not true. You stay dark, and she keeps coming. Look, guy, my WH showed NO signs of wanting me, whatsoever. He never texted me, called me, emailed me, unless by accident. He missed me, though. I was dark, and he had to use his memories of me (happy ones from Plan A and others) to stay satisfied. Eventually, it won't be enough. The darker you are, the more she WONDERS...

Let her wonder.

P.S. ooo, ooo, and another thing, I second Marsh's notion that she is in awe of men like you. Me too! It shows great strength and courage, what you are doing. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I need a new word. 'Thanks' doesn't cut it anymore. I'm moved and inspired by all the help.

Nah, thanks is great! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />