SD,

I've followed your thread for a long time now, and I just have to say that I admire your patience. I'm not sure how you manage to hang in there the way that you do, but you are an inspiration for sure.

They say that men hang in there longer than women. Not sure why that is though.


Anyway, I'm cheering for you....

Thanks, CL. I think that I am a glutton for punishment.

Angry this morning, because I'm dealing with trying to schedule the Christmas holiday. I asked her for an exchange on the 25th so that I can travel with the kids on the 26th. She replied with


I want to say: "That's fine. Thanks to your adultery, I'm going to miss both Christmas Eve and Christmas morning with my children for the second straight year. I might as well miss the whole day."

or

"I guess your selfish behavior has pretty well destroyed any hope the children had at having healthy traditions, so go ahead and keep them."

Angry.

That would make me angry, too. She's probably just pi$$ed about the most recent back and forth and is enjoying pushing your buttons. She'll get YOU for not caving on the weekend thing....

Just a little tit for tat.

What does your agreement specify? The standard around here is one gets Christmas Eve and the other gets Christmas Day.

It does not seem AT ALL fair that she gets them for BOTH days...???

Certainly that should not be the case unless it is something you BOTH agree to.

What does your attorney say?

The agreement is unhelpful. I don't remember any discussion around that and think we went with whatever sounded standard when we met with the mediator. It says 'children to be with the SCQ during the first half of week between Christmas and New Years and SDGuy the second half of the week on odd-numbered years. Reverse in even-numbered years. It doesn't specify anything about Christmas Eve.

I think we thought we were going to be reasonable with one another. And she probably is being reasonable, except that she's keeping the father of her children from being with them on Christmas Eve and Christmas morning. And I'm angry about that. And I want to say it to her.

It's the whole acceptance thing again. It shouldn't be this way.

"If we exchange on the 26th, I won't see them at all on Christmas Day. In fact, I'll miss Christmas Eve and Christmas morning with my children for the second year in a row, but hey, I guess that's in their best interests, right?"

Somebody 2x4 me.

I don't blame you for being angry. Your wife is being selfish and unreasonable.

WHACK

WHACK

WHACK

Can you ask your attorney about it? Seriously...that just doesn't seem right...

If your agreement is as you stated, then HER time shouldn't start until Christmas, so Christmas Eve isn't part of that equation. (This doesn't help with your travel issue, I realize)

Wait...so are you saying that you actually emailed that remark? If so:

THWACK
THWACK

Feel better?

No, I didn't email that. But I'm starting to forget why I shouldn't.

It's what the agreement states, so Christmas Eve reverts to whatever the other schedule was, which means it's her day. But Sunday the 23rd is my day. So if we go by the agreement, I have to figure it messes up *her* schedule, too.

I'm sure she would much rather leave on the 22nd for wherever it is she's going. (Where is she going, anyway? Is it to her parents'? But she doesn't like her parents enough to want to stay through the 26th. Does she have special holiday plans with the POSOM?) Unlikely, but it's all kind of floating around in my head.

There's no way around netogiating this with her. Fortunately, it's not dominating my consciousness. I'm able to put it away when I need to.

SD,

I was just updating my "kid calendar" today with all of the holiday schedules based on my 'agreement'. Sounds like we have a similar setup with having gone with the 'standard' agreement.

I get DD Christmas eve and then until Christmas day at 10am. She's then gone from me until the 31st. I don't know how I am going to handle being without her all of that time.

Bottom line is that being away from our kids at all just Sucks.

Sd and Bugs-
I hear you guys. It is SO HARD to be away from your kids for any length of time.

What happens to the WS that all of a sudden makes them want to mess with everything? I just do not get it.

SD- if I were you, I would try to write her a nice note, saying that since you did not get them last Christmas, you would like them this Christmas Eve, or something. Maybe she will relent a little...

I have my own EX telling me that he is going to take the kids all of the holidays, and I am having to battle him now. So I understand. It is just such a mess. Sigh.

I hope that it all works out with you.

Hopefully a good night's sleep has helped diffuse the anger.

I'm really sorry that you are having to deal with this...and Bugs and Sadmo, too. Insult on top of injury. Do they EVER EVER EVER think of anyone other than themselves??

It just makes me sad.

Probably a very short, simple email requesting a change. Very business-like. Don't let her know that she got to you.

"Since our agreement is unclear regarding Christmas Eve and Christmas Day and the children should spend time with each of us on those days, I propose the following: blah blah. Please let me know ASAP if this is acceptable to you."

No discussion of the whys or wherefores or recriminations, just the facts. The blah blah blah should be something reasonable and as much in line with the agreement as possible.

???

Just a suggestion. I don't think you should go to her hat in hand, neither should you be snippy.

Fire Season INDEED!

It's always something, isn't it guy. I think Sis has a good approach. I'm surprised that your lawyers did not have you 'schedule' the holidays. PWC and I had to do that in order to complete the legal separation. Maybe you should ponder moving toward scheduling the holidays through the lawyers for next year, so that this can be avoided. It get's a little mucky, dealing with this; it was hard for me to concede ANY days, but we did it.

Is this your normal time to be with the kids?

I'm okay. The problem is that I'm struggling again with acceptance. I want to tell her that this is wrong for our children and that it doesn't have to be this way. I'm fighting against what is. Those pangs of loss when you're confronted with a new layer of suckitude that you hadn't anticipated (missing Christmas Eve/morning) are triggering events.

Also realizing that if I don't get the kids back until the 26th (which I will probably agree to), I will be doing the loner thing for Dec 22 through the 25th. I have friends who will happily take me in, but I don't want to be that sad guy with no place to go so someone lets him come over. I was talking with my parents last night, and they suggested that I take a trip or the like during that time--maybe a cruise. I'm looking into that.

And then there's the fact that I turn 40 in a month and have nothing planned. Birthdays have never been a big deal for me, but it seems like I should do something for this one. I've been living day-to-day, though, and it's hard to think about any kind of celebration.

Like BR told me--not what I had planned for my life, and I get angry about it.

sd ~ you are right about the anger and the 'what is'.

However, re-think this holiday thing. What is best for your kids?

Is it good for your kids to be without their dad for even part of a holiday?!?

If you think it is in your children's best interest to be without their father for 5 days over Christmas...then agree.

But I imagine your children might want to see dad during this time and might miss him.

Visitation is about what is good for your children, not what is good for you or your selfish wife.

My SD Bro... man I feel for you, I'm in much the same sort of conversation with the IQ.

Course she's being even a bit more rediculous about it. We only have provisional orders at this point stating that the 'guidelines' apply for visitation.

Well the guidelines here basically state that one of us gets Thanksgiving, the other gets Christmas.. and we've always been able in the past to do her family's brunch tradition and my family's dinner tradition. She started out cordial enough saying she'd have to think about it and see what her family had planned, then get back to me. I sent her a thank you, and that there was no rush, just trying to form up plans and once she had an idea what she was doing that I'd prefer we work something out so that the kids could see us both on the holiday.

She decided instead to pick something miniscule out of the first email I sent and try to rile me up about it.. I just ignored.

Visitation is key on the holidays for kids.. if you want to see them over the holiday, fight for it.. if she's going out of town with them and the guidelines say she's got them, there's not a whole lot you can do.. but at least try to work something out if you can do it without a big confrontation.

I think the consolation is that they will spend the next week or so with me and my family and friends, and I think that's more important than fighting over the day itself. If I disrupt her travel plans fighting over the specifics of the day (24th/25th), why should she agree to let me take them away for a week? That's probably why the agreement is as vague as it is. Next year Christmas Eve and Day are both mine.

It means the loss of whatever traditions we would have had as a family for Christmas Eve/morning, but that is what is. Yes, I am sad about it, but we will just have to create new traditions. Maybe they will even include the SCQ at some point.

This the reality of divorce, right? It's obvious to just about everyone that it isn't in the best interest of the children, but waywards are wayward. That's where the whole temptation to talk to the SCQ comes in. Say "Look, this is wrong. Look at what you're doing to our children." Try to make her see the reality. Bring her out of the Fog. Some urges just don't go away. Or some of us are more thick-headed and stubborn than others.

I'm talking to Jennifer later today. (SL, I'd split time with you or ask questions for you if I could.)

Good deal Guy.. well, it is at once discouraging and encouraging to know that the same feelings I have now are what I'm going to be feeling so long down the line. That they're natural and we learn to cope with them and learn to recognize them for what they are.

You and Bugs both have dropped some of the defenses you erected in your dark dark plan B's.. and it's causing you both some anxiety now. You expected this, and you're strong enough to deal with it.

Just keep in mind, you cannot educate her.. you cannot 'show' her anything anymore.. that's wrong thinking and trying to make yourself 'superior' to her in her eyes isn't going to advance your cause. She knows what she's doing to the children.. let it eat at her. You've stated your case.. she's rejecting the offer.. she knows what it means for them, and at 7 and 4 (mine that are involved in this are 8 and 3) believe me.. they'll be thinking of you on that special day.. she won't be able to hide from it.

Oh, guy, no splitting required. THis is my mess, and I'll work it out. You are a gem, though; don't you forget that.

I'll find a way.

You take your money and time and find yours, and as LG would say, count your blessings...(or is that Rosemary Clooney and Bing Crosby)