Her Foxiness! Thanks for the thoughts.


Oh, he did. I heard him. I expect he groused about it some at her place, and prompting questions from her, which ultimately led to the email. Exactly the way he groused about POSOM's daughters sleeping in his room.

That whole email is a textbook example on the importance of Plan B. It illustrates the three major functions:

1) protecting myself from the WS behavior (her thinking she has a right to audit/correct/discuss my parenting behavior given what she's doing is hurtful to me)

2) protecting the WS from your desire to LB (my instinctive response to her email)

and 3) ceasing meeting the WS's emotional needs (No, I will not discuss chocolate milk with you)

I guess two out of three isn't bad, but darker would be better. As usual.

((Sdguy))

Haven't been on for awhile. Just sending good thoughts your way.

I need to update my thread if I can even find it <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Had my court date this past Tuesday. Divorce will be final 21 days after the judge signs the papers. Just hope it doesn't fall on my DS bday (2/12) or Valentines day.

Still

Still, good to see you here, maybe an update?

Hey Silent,

Need to find my last post. It's been a rough couple of weeks. Licking my wounds per se.

Still

SD,

Many thanks for the podcast info. Wow. I listened to Car Talk last night. Will download the Unger report next. I may end up with an iPod yet.....

The thing about the iPod is that it lets you listen anywhere. Waiting at the doctor's office. You can download the back editions and have, like, six months worth of Unger Reports. Probably better to be listening to that one mobile so that you don't have to worry about cleaning coffee (or whatever else you're drinking) off your monitor.

Highly recommended.

Thanks for stopping by, Still. An update would be good. It might make you feel better, too. Just start a new thread.

Well, if Unger is any funnier than CarTalk, I might be cleaning more than coffee. May be changing clothes at that point <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> I better listen to this Unger report soon.

I had a little more back and forth with the SCQ over the weekend custody thing. She called my proposal of six full weekends per year "nonsense" and reminded me that her proposals had been for either 52 or 26. On Wednesday, I proposed 12. She didn't bother to respond--probably trying to get even for all the stuff I don't respond to (like chocolate milk).

So it looks like a fun session of mediation on Monday! I anticipate that it will go well, but I'll be anxious until then. Plenty of stuff to distract me, though.

Sigh.

SD,

Good luck. Having a little challenge with my WS too. They have a mind of their own.....

(((Sdguy)))

Continue to believe in what you know is right for your children. I'll be praying for you tomorrow.

((((hugs))))

Still

Thanks Still and CL.

Just wanted to drop by and give you my support. I hope all goes well today. At least this part will be over, and you may be able to get a little darker. I like Marsh's idea of using the intermediary without SCQ knowing. Honestly, her emails, however silly sometimes, are mostly about the kids, so you would probably receive them ALMOST as is, if they went thru intermediary.

Good luck today SD. Update when you can.

Thinkin about you Guy.. hope things go well today.

Thanks, guys

I'm feeling pretty good, all things considered. I slept pretty well last night, and I could probably even eat something. The mediation is at 1:00 (PST, of course).

I'm trying to look ahead and figure out what to say and what not to say. Calm. Cool. Light.

And. . . remember to breathe!

Back now. I survived. I think I did okay.

I got in to the mediation office, stood in the line, acknowledged the SCQ with a smile and responded to her brief 'hi.' All the seats in the waiting room were full, so I went back to the alternate waiting room (which suited me perfectly).

Before I sat down, I went back out to the SCQ. I took her a bill, and as I came up to her, politely explained what it was, and then went back to the other room, I realized OMG, I still love this woman.

In the other room, I was able to listen to my iPOD (Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me), which prevented me from being antsy while waiting. Didn't have to look at the SCQ.

Then we got in with the mediator (same one as last time). We each had a turn talking. The SCQ doesn't think that weekends are working well enough and wants full weekends but would concede to 24 full weekends per year (I get one and she gets one per month).

I said that things are working fine, that the kids like the way it is now and don't want a change, that I don't want any changes but would concede to 12 full weekends per year (we get one every other month).

Lots of discussion and justifications about how our proposals are better. No one scored any serious blows. We couldn't agree. The mediator didn't side any particular way and wouldn't give an indication of which way she would recommend. The mediator thought we were really close, but it became clear we weren't going to reach a consensus.

We spent the whole time dancing around the fact that the SCQ really wants full weekends to make adultery more convenient. She implied a couple of times that I'm trying to control what she can and can't do with the kids. She brought up Memorial Day and that it was too big a hassle to have to do that every time she wants a full weekend, and I said something like "and the lies," to which she took exception and said "There were no lies."

The SCQ and I basically agreed that we were likely to abide by whatever the mediator recommends in an effort to avoid court. The report probably won't be available for a couple of weeks (like a week before court is scheduled). I don't know what will happen, but I can live with the results either way.

Then we were done. I spent most of the time not looking at her. When I did, though, I could see a big rash breaking out on her face and chest. It calmed down when we were finished.

We were more or less walking next to each other on the way out, and finally I said "I can't help myself, so I'm going to ask. When POSOM was sick a few weeks ago and called OMW to make him soup and she did, did you know about that?"

"I'm not sure," said the SCQ. Clearly she didn't know but was cool about it. She hemmed and hawed a little bit "I don't remember. I remember when he was sick."

We crossed the street and were about to part ways when I said "You know, it doesn't have to be this way. It was nice to see you."

"Thanks," she said.

"I've never lied to you," I added. And she said "I didn't lie to you either." which threw me for a loop. When DIDN'T she lie to me? Waywards. I think she was really rattled by the whole mediation thing, hence the kneejerk "I didn't lie" defensiveness.

Of course, it meant my point hadn't been made, so as I was driving away I saw her still walking to her car. I pulled up and called her over, and she came.

"I think there are a lot of things you don't know," I said, trying to get the point across that he's a liar. Predictably, she said "Like what?" Now it was my turn to hem and haw.

"Look around and you'll find them. It's what men in affairs do. They lie on both sides and string both women along. . . ." I tried. She wanted specifics. "Obviously, you think you know something."

I tried another tack. "Look, I don't really know much. It's not like I've been obsessing and keeping track of things." but she wasn't buying. "What do you know?"

So I told her the bit about OMW having had lunch the other day and the Christmas Eve conversation about rebuilding their marriage. She said "I knew about that one. I didn't know about lunch."

I looked her in the eye. "I think he's lying to you," I said. She nodded and started to walk away. "And I won't!" I yelled.

So there it is. Not exactly how I would have drawn it up, but it could have been worse. Maybe the bit about his lying will sink in. If not, I don't see that it could have possibly made things any worse.

I'm going to sink back into my darkness. It's Miller Time.

Except substitute a gin and tonic for Miller.

Hey SD.

Maybe you should talk to Jennifer again. It may be time for a shift in your strategy.

SCQ is soooooo passive. It's like she is just floating aimlessly on the inner tube of life on the lazy Apple River.

Sounds like you did fine. I have my own thoughts but I won't air them here.

What is the timeline now?

SD:

You had the time to take a shot at the SCQ and all you could ocme up with was:


HE lies?


WTF?

Did you plan on THAT for eight-ten weeks?

Not stop her, turn her to face you and tell her that you "love her?"

That "this thing doesn't have to happen"

That "your who I really want"

Instead, she is asking YOU: "what does he LIE about?"

The discussions between YOU and HER should be about YOU and HER. Not POSOM.

How about: "All our years together, and our family, pulled apart by a bureaucrat in some windowless office downtown?" "Is THAT what you really want?"

SD: Sorry about the 2x4.

When I read this last night....

I just thought: "Wow, what a disconnect between the third line of your post and what happened when you finally decided to address her."

IS this a fight to SAVE your marriage or just make her life difficult?

JMVHO

Sorry your stuck in this lousy sitch. Really.

LG

Thanks, Chris and LG.

Interesting perspective, LG. I had considered the lay-it-on-the-line FTF I-love-you approach and discussed it with Jennifer. What she recommended was a letter expressing that it's not too late, that we can make a great life for our kids, and that my arms are still open. When I asked Jennifer whether I should give that FTF, she said no, there would be too much risk that I would mess it up or get drawn off track.

So I wrote up the card Jennifer described and gave it to her just over a week ago. During the negotation part, when I was explaining my point of view on something, I said (with some emotion) "I don't want a divorce." She knows.

I don't know how many more times I can lay it on the line with FTF I love you, please don't do this, just to get the Blank Stare of Fog (which is really what I should expect).

I've tried to put my faith in Jennifer. Her advice is that we're waiting on the sideline for the affair to die. I don't think she would have wanted me to say the bits that I did about POSOM's lying--she really needs to hear that from someone else or figure it out herself, but that wasn't happening. There is no one else, so I took a chance.

I was actually expecting 2x4s on saying anything to her about POSOM. I lunged at the gerbil. It felt like "I shouldn't be doing this, but I'm going to do it anyway."

Chris, with the SCQ's passivity, I have always suspected that I would need to shift back to Plan A at some point, because she will never figure it out enough to show up on my door. She will either continue to live with whatever scraps POSOM gives her or, if and when it falls apart, implode in a scary way.

I don't think the time has come yet, but it might be nearing. I'll keep working with Jennifer. I'm also interested in your other thoughts.

The timeline. Court is Feb 25, but it's clear that neither of us really want to go to court. I think we will abide by whatever the mediator recommends, which we won't know for a couple of weeks. As far as final settlement, we have batted proposals around by email. She can accelerate this any time she wants.

I'm going to try to Be Still in the mean time.

Jennifer actually recommended sending letters every month or so. The only risk is me getting too close and getting hurt when they hit the FogWall. I *think* I understand and am on top of this risk. I recognize that I may find out the hard way, though.

Thanks again for stopping by, LG. I was surprised when I realized I still love her. It kind of faded when we got into the negotiation part, even though I recognize how good we are together.

Hey SD,

I've also worked with Jennifer. She had me send a couple of letters, and gave me another one to "keep in my back pocket."

In October when I got basically got no reply from two of them, she told me to wait a year. The letter that I have in "my back pocket" is if he should make any attempt at contact at all.

Not sure how you feel, but it got to the point where I felt like anymore would basically be begging him to come back and cake-eat. I just have my own boundary and conditions that I need to adhere to for my own sanity and dignity. But then I don't have little ones involved either. Not sure how I would handle it in that sitch.

Have you thought about calling Steve? It sounds like his advice differs a little from Jennifer's.

It sounds like your WW is in a rut and will stay there until POSOM makes his move back home. Almost like she is incapable of making a decision on her own.

Maybe you should just go over there and tell her she's coming home and that's that! Bodily remove her, flatten out OM, and leave. Call the press first, get them there for the news, get publicity, get a book deal with movie deal to follow....

Just trying to cheer you up.