CN, don't mean to scare you off.. i didn't mind the your post at all. i hope it did not come off that way.

so don't feel the need to leave me alone. who knows maybe my determination right now can fuel your flame...

maybe it will help you enough and then sometime you will pass it on to another.

funnier things have happened!

FLTH -


I guess mostly this statement.


IMHO, this sounds like marital endurance rather than working on the M.

Your story about the cleaning. Well this just sounds a lot like how I used to be. IMHO, his attitude is all wrong. I use to play this game with my FWW. FWW does something for us. I critique it, beat FWW down, apologize later, and repeat. Good times, noodle salad, huh.

There is nothing that will break your spirit more than the feeling that if I do a thousand things right, and 1 thing wrong, all the positives are negated.

This is just a vicious cycle that spirals downward.


When you say letting go of the past. If you mean in the sense of letting go of your guilt. Yes, I agree. If you mean, giving BS the opportunity to correct their behaviors that led to an unstable M, yes I agree.

But I don't think its a case where the BS does whatever they want and you sift through all their actions looking for the few positives.


My FWW is very much this way. For me, it is very stressful. I see my my FWW solve problem after problem at work, with very clear goals and steps. But at home we rummage around in the dark.

IMHO, the way out of this is to start with a blank sheet of paper. No constraints, no guilt, no trying to please another person. What actions would you take? What would your day to day look like? How would you feel? What is the ending? What would you have to do to get there?

Then add your constraints. One by one. What do you get for them? What do you give up for them? Is that an acceptable "trade"? If not, is there a way to make it a fair trade? What actions do you have to do differently?

I'll give a silly example and pick one facet of my life. With a complete blank page I would probably live in an apartment. That would make me happy as it removes the stress of taking care of the house, yard, etc. My constraint to doing this is I have two cats. Most apartments don't allow pets. What do I get for this constraint? Well, love, companionship, and the very often belly laugh at watching them do something silly. I also get litter boxes, vet visits and bills, and the occassional accident on the carpet. What do I give up? I can't live in an apartment. Is this a fair trade to me. Yes. If it wasn't, (for example, the accidents on the carpet), what could I do different? Get rid of the cats? Get rid of the carpets? Train the cats better? I'm not getting rid of the cats, and I can't train them. So I'll get rid of the carpets.

This isn't a sacrifice, its an exchange. And, I get something of greater value than what I give up.

To me, going through this process is very empowering and helps wipe away the confusion. There is no second guessing.

It took me over a year to decide if I even wanted to stay in our m. D-day included 2 alleged OC (because there has been no DNA test) by the same OW. I have yet to meet them because of the psycho OW's threats and the now 17 year old girl has a load of emotional problems accepting me and our children. 16 months and I am tired and I don't know if I want to be the "better" person anymore. It is becoming more painful to stay than to leave. Leaving will hurt, I know, I love my h and I want to spend the rest of my life with him, but there is only so much I can take, or only so much I will take. The first 2 months after d-day, I allowed my h to stay in our home--no committment on whether I would stay in the marriage or not, just a financial agreement and living arrangements that included absolutely NO CONTACT with the OW as a non-negotiable item. But, as my h's w, I could NOT be his wife and I could not with hold love, affection and do my best to meet his emotional and physical needs, even while hurting severely, I could not see how I could not "be his wife in all ways" as long as we were physically living together and still married.

I don't know if this helped answer your question or not and everyone's situation is different. I think it is very sad that often when a bs is willing to do what it takes to rebuild the marriage, the ws doesn't figure it out until it is too late, and vice verse.

CN - I'm confused a little by your statements.

It seems you are choosing to stay in an unhappy M for the sake of your children, but are unhappy with that choice.

If you really feel that way, don't you fear that eventually you will grow to resent your children and that will be worse for them than having a broken up household?

And if your certain that you won't resent them, then you must feel you will get much more value/happiness out of seeing them in your current family unit, than the unhappiness caused by your unsatisfying M. If that's the case, why aren't you happy with your choice.

I would think the logical answer is well I'm not happy having to make that choice, I want both. Then why have you given up on trying to improve the M?

I don't mean any disrespect, just trying to understand. I guess I fear that I'm in a similar sitch for different reasons.

rprynne,

wow, what a great post.

by letting go of the past i was refering to old hurts that worry me. worry me about future hurts.

but all that fear does is hold me back which pretty much will guarentee future hurts.

on a logical end, that does not really make much sense, now does it.

i don't think he should be able to do whatever he wants and i should just accept the positives without voicing my reactions to him.

the fact is, he has shown me that he is capable of responding back favorably when i voice negative reactions.

something i either didn't do enough of before or didn't do it in a way that was effective.

i see that i have learned to communicate better. and i have definitely learned to not let my feelings have the driver's seat. and i see that because of that he is responding differntly to me.

the bottomline is, i know he wants me to be happy.

i guess i am realizing that i am letting fear win over my trust in that stmt above.

i'm going to have to get out a blank sheet and see what i come up with.

what would a normal (satisfactory) day look like....

of course i have to make sure i keep everything on this paper things that i can control. seems to me that is the tricky part.

thanks for giving me so much to think on. i will think on it a bit.

CN - i hope you are reading!!

WB - thanks for sharing. so what is going on for you? are you guys recovering?

ok, so day would start with us getting up together...
most days that is not the case.

he does not like mornings!!! so it does not happen very often at all. i know that is not a crime on his part, many people are not morning people.

so i learn not to want the company in the morning??

ok, so i am changing that last question to a statement:

Yes, i learn not to want the company in the morning.

spouses have endured more than that!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> (i am teasing with the word endure, making fun of myself, cuz it's not such a big deal when you think about it)

but i also:

ask for the help on days i'm trying to get out at the same time as the kids are needing breakfast and lunches made (for the days that i have not left before anyone wakes up but don't have the time to do the morning routine)

and

enjoy the days that he does wake up. sometimes he does.

FLTH - IMHO, You don't need to learn to not want company in the morning. To me that is sacrifice.

My FWW and I had the same thing, she gets up very early and falls asleep early. I'm the reverse.

I really wanted my FWW to stay up late with me. How important is that to me? Somewhat. Is there something else I'm willing to trade for that. Sure. Let's say she gives me a backrub before she goes to sleep. If she is willing to do that, I'm not sacrificing, I'm exchanging. When she falls asleep, I don't lament that fact, I revel in the fact I got a good backrub.

But the negotiating comes after you've decided what you want.

rp,

The choice to stay in a marriage where I'm unhappy vs. leaving and breaking my kid's family is an easy one for me to make. It isn't the choice that causes my distress, it is the marriage. I gladly trade my "need" for a fulfilling marriage for my "need" to live with my kids.

CN - Okay, I can certainly understand that. I guess I was just wondering if your WS has basically said, if you keep trying to improve our M, I'll D you. Or have you decided no matter what I do it isn't going to improve, or have you decided that no matter what, because of the A you are going to D your WS.

Anyway, if you want me to quit asking, just tell me.

last night i thanked him for taking ds to play tennis
and for doing the dishes.

today we had a big fight due to a topic i brought up and it got ugly <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

we are better now, we tried our best to talk it out. i'm feeling a bit shell shocked still. i had tried really hard to approach the topic in a constructive way. having it go so badly takes so much out of me.

i'll still be sure to find things to thank him for, like about an hour ago he played some backgammon with me. i'm sure it was to help continue to ease the tension from this afternoon.

oh yeah, you resonded about the waking up thing...

i'm not sure what i would want in exchange for waking up alone. he is a night person too. i stay up with him 95% of the time. more for myself than him. i don't like to go to bed seperately either...

that sure makes me feel/sound needy....

but i really don't think couples should go to sleep seperately.