Awesome. Made me smile and feel good. Glad to hear you're doing so well.

I LOVE your DD19 and her friend! Can you imagine the looks on the faces of the others? Good for her!

Had my own drama again this weekend with WH, I'll update soon on my thread. I was able to give DD13 a few pats on the back for sticking up for herself this weekend.

Glad to hear you are doing well. 45 and still at mama's - what a great life these waywards choose.

Aguirre, Wrath of God -
I simply loved it. LOVED it.

I LOVE YOUR DD19 and her VALLEY GIRL IMPERSONATING FRIEND THAT WW LOATHES!!!

Living a true, good life is the best way to go, isn't it? Your DD and her friend PROVED THAT when they spoke up about the cleanliness of your home and how happy they were when there and a part of YOUR LIFE.

I say next time, tell your DD to LOOSE THE HOUNDS on MIL. Your daughter is a young woman making her own decisions about what sorts of people she wants in her life. PERIOD...

Friend, I just started reading your thread and it is one of the few on here which has actually made me laugh out loud.

I am so sorry you're going through this, but I am very confident that your WW will one day see what a horrible impact she has had on your DD19 and you. The sad thing is that you will move on and put this behind you before your DD19 does. This will have a very big impact on her and her future relationships. My parents divorced when I was 25 so I can relate. My sister was younger too. We both got into relationships that weren't balanced or healthy and have paid the price for it. We didn't have our intact family to go to and get sound advice from. We didn't want to deal with either parent. On my end, it took a really long time before I had a good relationship with my father and that really only happened after he and the mistress split.

Your daughter is awesome but she will carry a heavy weight over a strained relationship with your WW.

I would encourage her to not do anything she doesn't want to do, which may include not seeing her mother much, but that is ultimately her choice and I wouldn't force her either way on it. She'll make the choice herself but you should re-assure her that she shouldn't be forced to do anything out of guilt.

I withheld my anger at my father for a long time and it simply exploded one day. I really let him have it and my fiance at the time said she hoped I would never be that angry with her.

This sucks and I can only imagine how hard this is. I would like to recommend dragging this process out as long as possible to make life difficult for the WW. Unless you're happy to let her go.

I'll read your whole thread tonight. Some of the stuff you've written is very funny.

If we can't laugh at life's worst moments....don't know how to finish that one.

Thanks MD,

I have worried a lot about the longer term effects that this change of relationship will have on DD19. Sometimes I can see that anger in her that you talk about. Wayzilla has absolutely forgotten how close of a family we were and how much DD19 believed in and depended on US. She honestly thinks that because DD is 19 and out of the house now that she would just shrug her shoulders and not care. Nor does she have any concern about the awful example she has shown for handling mature relationships. But of course that is true of all the waywards who have trampled over their children’s lives because their short term happiness is far more important.

I am very proud of her.

"No, MIL. Wayzilla is the ADULT in our relationship--I am the CHILD. SHE is supposed to call ME and stay in MY life. SHE is the one who chose to leave ME, not vice versa! If she wants to be informed about what I'm doing, she can be a MOTHER and return to her CHILD!"

(polishing the points on my devil horns)

Good for DD19's Valley Girl BF!! Maybe a little tiny bit of the light of truth will pierce that fog-fest! (rolling eyes)


~~CJ

P.S. You know, chrisner...you tell us jokes about Wayzilla's fogginess, and DD19's brilliance in seeing through her mom's babble...but you don't tell us about YOU. How are YOU doing?

Hey CJ,


I think I am doing pretty well. Although occasionally boring and lonely, Plan B has wonderful insulative qualities. Anger and depression are fading fast now and are being replaced with reflection and acceptance.

I know I am very fortunate and very grateful in my situation not to have young children like so many others in Plan B. I feel deeply for my friends and their children here who are fighting that war.

So what was I up against?

- WWs MLC during the following milestones: 25th Anniversary, DD19s HS graduation, DD19s departure for college, WWs grandfather passing, my mother’s passing, WWs 45th birthday.
- An office romantic EA and PA.
- The A becomes an exit affair.
- An OM who is a 3 or 4 time cheater and is set free after exposure.
- WWs main confidant is BIL having his own A with a MOW.
- ILs are totally enabling of WW in her effort to D.
- Enough marital assets to split for WW to easily begin new.

Pretty heavy odds. I fell asleep at the wheel and then brought rocks to a gun fight.

I do not think Plan B is having any effect on Wayzilla at all. She is patiently waiting in MILs house for her divorce payday (and it will be sizable) and will then buy a place of her own. She is very stubborn and very patient and has no intention of being part of my life again regardless of the outcome of her A. Her MLC will demand a new lifestyle.

I know that Wayzilla is not going to wake up as W for many years and in my real opinion, (apologies to Pep) probably never. I have chosen to consider W as lost at sea and presumed dead. I can stand at the shore and wait for her unlikely return or turn my back and move to my new future. I am done mourning. It’s time to go.

I choose life. And I at least have the knowledge that DD19 will always be a part of the life I choose.

DD19 is having a bad day. MIL called yesterday and DD let it go to voice mail. When she reviewed it later it was a sarcastic, rude condemnation of her lack of communication with Wayzilla and the inhabitants of Infidel Hotel. DD19s reaction was to NOT call some more. This morning she has received two calls that she rolled to VM. One from Wayzilla and one from MIL. She called me a few minutes ago teary saying she is sick of this and does not even want to listen to the VM’s. I told her to have some lunch, settle down and then listen to them. Maybe it’s nothing. I guess we will see.

Now I really am picturing General Schwarzkopf narrating the infra red image of an F117’s laser guided missile going through the picture window of Infidel Hotel at 2:00 AM. I will stay up all night to watch that. Pay for view.

They just can’t accept that MAYBE Wayzilla’s choices have something to do with DD’s feelings and that MAYBE those same choices will actually have unpleasant consequences for Wayzilla. Oh no, the only possible acceptable outcome will be Wayzilla’s undying happiness and satisfaction. Talk about a HO down!

Sorry. They stepped on my DD’s toes and I’m pissed.

chrisner, MIL's love to justify their baby's actions. Lord knows they can do no wrong.

Hey, my kid went through the same thing. She's an adult. Young, albeit. But right now she has a clearer head than than her mom and grandmother.

Just sit back, chrisner, and watch it all unfold. It won't be pretty, but remember, you didn't do this.

Nothing to be sorry for.

chrisner,

Note to self: Your DD may act like she's grown, and she is CERTAINLY more mature than Wayzilla! However, she is still a kid, and this may be a good chance for her DAD to come to her rescue a little.

Here's the thing. A "kid" does not have the authority and power that an "adult" does. In this instance, one mature way for her to respond would be for her to speak to Wayzilla and say out loud, "I do not communicate with you BECAUSE your choices and actions have hurt me. I loved you. You were my parent. And rather than thinking of me and what your actions would do to me, all you cared about was how you felt. Well, that's your choice. You chose to walk out of my life and now I am choosing to no longer communicate with you. It is MY choice! So you and your mom respect me enough to stop your sarcastic, rude remarks on my voice mail." But that assumes that DD19 is on equal footing with her mom. As a kid, she is not. Mom has the upper hand in both authority and power.

Sooooo...maybe if DD wrote something like that, and it was backed up by DAD telling Wayzilla and MIL to end the abusive VMs or the phone number is going to change...maybe they'd get the point. Probably NOT--because they are in LaLa Land--but still, you will have done the right and proper thing in defending your DD.

Your faithful dead head friend,


CJ

P.S. You are documenting the harrassing voice mails right? You are documenting their abusive demands of a child, right? This is stuff you can use in a court of law!

I like that advice, CJ.

DD19 is really strong--we all admire her--but she can probably use some help with this. It's an awful thing for her to have to deal with, on top of all the other awful things.

Has she said the things CJ recommends to Wayzilla? Does she want to? Is that how she feels?

Chris, go home, talk to your daughter and prepare a reply to both Wayzillarouski and Mamazilla.

It is time to stand as a united front. You standing a half step in front of your daughter. She will need to be the one to respond, but you are there to back her up.

I think changing her cell number would be a good next step. Also, reminding Wayzilla that DD19 is still the CHILD dealing with the dismantling of her family.

Thanks CJ, RLT SD and SL. Good advice all. Thank you. You are all good friends.

DD has tried to avoid all conflict on the matter. A few times I have told her if it reaches a point she needs to back away that she needs to let her mom, and now probably MIL know. I try to be careful so I don't put words in her mouth or give her a script. That's not easy. It has to be her words. I have a whole bunch to say but it would turn right into Plan FU. And what a Plan FU it would be! One for the ages!

We will talk again tonight and see how she feels. She has mentioned a couple times of sending an email to WW with this message. I think Wayzilla and MIL honestly think that she has had plenty of time to accept and move on from the destruction of her family. "Oh my, why does she resist so and prolong our tiny,tiny pang of guilt and hurt our feelgoods?"

You can see the grainy green picture of the missle crosshairs on the front window even now.

I would encourage her to come up with a message and deliver it. Having avoided delivering this message is completely understandable, though.

In the massive corporation for which I work, we have lots of initiatives on things we can do to make things better. (Guess how I feel about most of them.) One of them that was particularly crammed down our throat was to establish a "Culture of Coaching." We all coach each other, and in doing so improve performance, bla bla bla.

The learning I took away was "If you see someone doing something and know that they could do it in a better way and don't tell them (rather, offer them the opportunity to receive the coaching), you aren't doing them any favors." One could make an argument that you owe someone you care about this kind of feedback. I'm trying to say this gently, because delivering the message of disapproval of amoral behavior to one's own parent must be incredibly difficult. It should also be quite powerful, however. It could be as simple as "I'm sorry, Mom, but the way you're behaving makes me not want to be around you."

You're right that it should be her words. And I wouldn't pressure her to do it, but I would encourage her to do it.

If you do go Plan FU, promise to record it somehow. We can show/play it at future MB get togethers. "Hey, you guys remember when Chrisner went Plan FU? I've got the tape to play." "YES!"

WOW Chrisner, you are truly an inspiration for a freshly betrayed spouse like myself also heading quickly to D-land.

Never lose that great sense of humor, you can also add me to the list of people that LOL reading your posts and having their days/nights brightened!

Will be prayin' for ya!

It was a pretty quiet weekend. The calm before the courtroom meeting.

DD19 came home and worked on school work and studied for tests. I played study buddy on Sunday quizzing her (with one ear on the Nugget game). We got out a little for lunch and dinners. Otherwise it was just a lot of housework and yard work.

I asked DD19 at lunch on Saturday if she thought about what she will do once WW’s affair relationship becomes “legitimate” after the divorce is final. She thought about it for a little and said, “Wish her a nice life and say goodbye.” I told her time will alter that opinion and WW will always be her mother and eventually they have to find their peace. She agreed that time probably would change her stance but admitted life is a lot less stressed with WW so out of her picture and she frankly likes it. I think mother/daughter relationships are difficult enough not to add in infidelity and the destruction of the family into the mix. DD has almost gone totally dark now on the residents of Infidel Hotel.

I am not sure how to best handle this estrangement. It took my bosses oldest son 12 years to marginally resume his relationship with his mother after her infidelity and their divorce. She has been married to her affair partner for over 10 years.

DD added that if she ever does have to meet Gollum in the future she wants to kick him so hard in his Rocky Mountain Oysters they come out his mouth. Where does she learn stuff like that?

Oh boy! Court tomorrow. Bitbucket, it’s time to give the old Norwegian Blue parrot another good shake. I will post up if anything fun or interesting happens.



Wayzilla

With a purposeful grimace and a terrible sound
She pulls the spitting high tension wires down.
Helpless BS’s on the subway trains
Scream for God as she looks in on them.
She picks up a bus and she throws it back down
As she wades through the buildings toward the center of town.

Oh no, they say she's got to go—
Go, go, Wayzilla . . .
Oh no, there goes old Tokyo—
Go, go, Wayzilla . . .

with apologies to Blue Oyster Cult (and everyone else offended as usual)

I love to read your posts Chris, you have a great sense of humor. Good luck in court tomorrow!!!

How about modifying that to "Don't Fear The Reaper", eh?

Your daughter will, eventually, find a new relationship with her mother, but it is going to take YEARS, and Wayzilla is not going to like that, not one bit.

Chrisner,

I empathize with your daughter. My parents did this when I was 25. My father ended up marrying his mistress. This happened after a warning from me.

My sister and I both refused to go to my father's house if OW was around.

I passed through there one day with my baby daughter and my wife (now exww). I was standing outside of his house borrowing his car when OW came out of the house. I would be dam*ed if I let her even get a glimpse of my baby and I also had no clue how I would act around her. I honestly felt pure hatred towards her. I immediately got in the car and sped off.

We didn't stay at his house. It was understood that I would never do so and I stayed with my best friend's parents.

You're right, it will eventually get better with her mom, but her mom is clueless as to the pain this is causing her daughter. Your daughter wants to protect you. She wants to stand by your side and not have anything to do with Wayzilla because she hates Wayzilla. She loves her mother, the one she knew and grew up with, but hates the wayward mom.

This anger will build up and could very well explode one day. It did for me. I really let my dad have it one day when he was trying to make us three kids feel guilty about tolerating something my mom was doing when he's the one that caused all of this. I swore I was going to hit him that day. He was shocked by our angry reactions. All three kids exploded on him in a torrent of anger. We held it in for a long time and really let him have it. He left with this tail tucked between his legs.

It is hard because you're the betrayed and it is very easy to let your daughter become your confidant and the person you vent to. Avoid doing this. Remain her parent and remain concerned about her feelings.

I can also tell you that my parent's divorce was a big contributor to my sis and I staying in bad relationships. It was as if we were wanting to find something good for ourselves and we settled for the people we were with and it was the very wrong kind of people.

These are all things you can talk to your daughter about. It is ok to tell her that you understand how her world is falling apart just like yours is, but that you're still her dad and are there to listen to her fears and troubles. Advise her to express her feelings to her mom through an email or letter.

The last thing Wayzilla should be doing is making your daughter feel guilty about not wanting to be around her or talk to her.

Your daughter should make it clear to your W that she will likely never go over to her house while she's in this affair and will never accept that man. That's what your daughter feels inside and it is ok. Your W needs to understand the consequence of her actions and the fact of the matter is that we as parents are expected to take care of our kids with no expectations in return. Afterall, they never asked to be born.

I think it is ok for you to talk to your daughter about her feelings and encourage her to communicate her feelings to her mom and not keep them bottled up inside. In the future, your daughter may not be so self controlled at a Wayzilla family funcion, especially if OM is around.