Since I could not change my old thread's title, which is no longer suitable, I'm starting a new thread. Here is the link to my old thread, for those who may not be familiar with my sitch:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...part=1&vc=1

I posted the following to my old thread...

WH came by to pick up DS4 on Sat morning, and I asked him if he heard anything back from his lawyer. He said no, but then said "but nothing is going to change". He was very firm when he said that, which touched my heart. Of course I did not show that though.

Well this morning WH forwarded emails between him and his lawyer - he, as PROMISED, sent an email to his lawyer after our talk last Friday. This is what he said in his email:

Needless to say this whole period has been very taxing on us, DS4, Milk and myself....
We want to reach an agreement surrounding our assets split and I a have agreed and will not reneg (even if it costs me 20-30K - I don't care ....not worth the emotional loss for DS4, Milk and myself) and end it in an amicable manner.....ending this amicably has value......

We have agreed to the following

1) We have joint custody of DS4 but Milk has primary custody.
2) We split the holidays in half
3) Milk will have title to law mandated xx% of my income (not more)
4) Milk will give me $$
5) I keep the vehicle #3
6) Milk keeps the house, all assets in it (except for few items we have agreed upon), remaining vehicles (Vehicle #1 and Vehicle #2). DS4 likes the house and he belongs in it.

I am comfortable with this settlement and am not interested in settling for anything more...

I realize as my lawyer you are going to talk me out of it ....we are at a point where friendship can be maintained. Even if she sits on most of the assets I am o.k. with that.....

Let’s proceed from here

H
In reply, his lawyer basically agreed with him saying that in addition to considering the real cost of assets, the emotional cost of the dissolution and future relationships must be considered as well, and he told him that if he is happy with the allocation he stated in his email, then his lawyer will NOT attempt to ‘talk him out of it’.

H’s email made me cry. Especially where he said "DS4 likes the house and he 'belongs' in it", and "we are at a point where friendship can be maintained"......, they really touched my heart. That is how he has always been, before the whole thing happened. It seems as if the old sweet H has come back. Of course, I am not trying to set myself up for another hurt by raising my hope for US or anything......, I know this is ENDING, and I am not trying to fool myself...., but it's just very touching to see how he has said it to his lawyer and standing firm to be a man, and trying to honor what he promised. This is basically what he promised in the first place when he moved out.

Again, this is good and bad. It's good, obviously, that he 'cares' that we remain 'friends', and most importantly, he cares about DS4's wellbeing. But it certainly brings back so many 'good' and 'sweet' memories we had together by being a good guy again....

I'm a bit emotional today.......but, I AM truly graceful that we have reached a point where we do NOT hate each other anymore....

Milk

Finally some good news!!! That sounds very promising.

Thanks Believer.

(((Milk))) Kinda bittersweet isn't it? When they are mean, it hurts and when they show some decency, it makes us miss them again.

(((Milkshake}}}

I'm very pleased for you. Being on good terms with WH is great news for your DS.

Alph.

Thanks Jean and Alph. Yes, it's great if WH and I can get along well - even after D. If that will minimize DS4's pains, I will do it.

It's so typical of WH......

Apparently WH got a car accident last week...., and then two days later he contacted me and proposed that we settle between us amicably.

Now, one of my friends' view is that WH may have found someone, and because of that he is not angry anymore and also wants to settle ASAP so that he can move on with his life. This DOES make sense.

But I can't help but to find a similar pattern year after year......

First, the beginning of 2004, WH said that he wanted a divorce. Then in June 2004 he was arrested for SA. He wanted to reconcile and started to attend the 12-step recovery program. But he ended it after 3 months, and also that time he 'fell' for a young girl he met at church and decided that I was the source of his unhappiness and he needs to get rid of me.

Beginning of 2005, he was given a pink slip at work. He stopped mentioning about divorce. Then he got a job...., a few days after, he decided to leave us and moved out in May.

The first night, he got scared and called me at night to tell me that he 'loves' me and wants to get back together. But then the very next day he said he was just 'freaking out'...., and whatever he said did not 'mean' anything. He just 'used' me emotionally, that's what he told me.

So he filed in Sep 2005. In Dec 2005, I tried to settle by offering him a settlement proposal, but his lawyer told him to go for more so the plan failed. In March 2006, he was arrested for DUI, and he contacted me asking for reconciliation. Also the fact that he had to renew his apartment, the tax season was coming up, etc., played a big role. He did not have money.

We tried MC but in the end WH (again) decided to divorce. Now here we are, we were about to have a 4-way conference...., WH got an accident. And AGAIN, it's the tax season PLUS his renewal of apartment lease. He will need MONEY.....

Two days after his accident, he contacted me and wanted to settle. He DID mention "I just want to settle, and I just want to get some money so that I can pay off my debt and also my taxes".

OK, this time he did NOT ask for reconciliation, but it's almost comical that every year something happens to WH, which seems to affect his behavior one way or another.

Again, it's totally possible that WH is simply tired of fighting anymore and just wants to settle. He may have a GF now, that's possible too. But somehow I wonder......., that this might be another one of those 'event triggered' actions.....
He is a very interesting person, to say the least……

Milk

WH asked if he could have DS4 over on Thursday last week, but since it was a last minute request, I could not change my plan. WH said he had already taken a day off Friday (initially for our 4-way conference, but since it was cancelled, WH had a free day) and wanted to spend time with DS4. So I proposed "why don't you pick him up on Friday morning, so that you can still spend the whole day with him..., and if you would like, you can keep him overnight, although I need him back by 11am, since my parents are flying in on Sat and DS4 and I need to leave shortly after that time to pick them up at the airport".

Initially WH said no, that won't work out for him, because he already had a plan for Friday night. I didn't ask him what it was, but he volunteered to offer more detailed information...., he said he was going to attend this club in the city to play cards. He said "this is a good way to make friends...", which sounded pretty sad. WH does not even have many friends...., the thought depressed me too.

So we decided that we'd postpone this and WH would NOT pick up DS4.

Then on Thursday evening when I was driving home (with DS4 in the car), my cell rang. It was WH. He said he 'changed his mind' and will NOT go to this club, and rather wants to spend time with DS4, because he 'really misses DS4'.

I could tell that WH is feeling very lonely. It appears almost he NEEDS DS4 or someone, to be with him so that he can get through his lonely and sad days....

WH's sisters and brother would probably say "well, this is his own doing"...., which is true, but still I felt sad for him.

Anyway, I let him have DS4 Friday and Friday night, and WH seemed happy. On Sat morning when he dropped DS4 off at my place, he asked if also my brother is coming, so I said no, and then he said "please say hi to your parents".

Aside from WH, I had a nice fun weekend with DS4 and my parents, despite the bitter cold weather.

Milk

Wow, WH continues to show some decency - today is WH's usual day to pick up DS4 from his daycare for dinner. I had a few things I needed to tell WH so called this morning. He said "your parents probably want to spend time with DS4, since they don't get to see him too often, so it's okay, I don't have to pick up DS4 tonight."

I then told him about another business trip to Europe in March and that WH would need to take care of DS4 during that time, and he sounded excited about it. And he even suggested where to go (I'll be going to London and Amsterdam), and the reason he mentioned is because this spot is where I have always wanted to visit since I was a little girl. Obviously WH remembers that.

I'm glad we are talking like in old days.

Milk

Milk,

You are obviously dealing with a VERY immature man. When in trouble he needs his mommy.

Your analysis is right on the money and so clear headed.... are you sure you are a BS <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />????????

Ha ha, thanks for your reply Cymanca. After my analysis I told my friend, who initially believed that the sudden change in WH's behavior was due to his finding a new 'love', about my theory and he agreed with me. He said that makes sense. Who knows who is right, but there is a pattern each year.

On a completely separate subject..........I have a question. I don't know what I should do. Here is the situation. I mentioned this guy I met at the end of last year...., and although we are curbing ourselves b/c I am not divorced yet, I have to admit that there is strong attraction between us. Well, it appears that he has already told about me and even my son to his family, and it seems everyone at his work knows about me now... He (let me call him M) does talk about future here and then, although he sort of hides it well so that it does not sound too obvious.

So, given the strong emotions between us and M's signaling of us possibly staying together in the future, I feel strange to continue to 'pretend' that I do not notice how the other guy J feels towards me. J is my friend - we met at business school and we've been friends for 10 years now. His divorce became final in December last year. Even before his D (he was in this process for 3 years), he was sending me flowers for my birthday and Valentine's day, so I knew he liked me, but since he never actually said that he wanted to date me, and I have also told him many times that I wanted to stay married to WH (and I was also encouraging him to stay with his x-wife), I did not really need to deal with this issue. But now there is M, and I'm sure J is planning on sending something to me on Valentine's Day, I do not feel right. I should say something to J that I have met someone (=M). But when J has never asked me out officially, isn't that strange for me to just tell him out of the blue that I have met someone? J has just gone through divorce and he is broken heart - I do not want to make it hard for him. What is the best way? How should I approach this?

Thanks for your advice.....

Milk

Just my .02 cents.

If J is a friend, then it would not be strange for you to tell him about M. You've talked to him about WH. So now there is a new man in your life.

I can understand you not wanting to hurt J after what he has been through. But its going to hurt him a lot more if he finds out from someone other than you.

Hope this helps you.

Thanks GWTF.

I sent J an email and 'shared' this information. I hope he took it well...

Milk

Hey Milk~
Haven't posted much but I always keep up with your "sitch".
Glad to hear that you had a nice visit with your family, and
that things are more pleasant with your WH lately- I know
that has to be a big relief and far less stressful, even
though the D is not what you want.

Glad that you have some good friends like "J" and "M" both,
but wanted to urge you to be really careful about getting
involved in any kind of a new romantic relationship -yet !
Just had a discussion about this with my IC last week (see
details about reason below) and since then have seen that
most here as well as almost everything I read about the
"recovery" from divorce all urge waiting at least a year
to get involved with someone new. My IC explained that it
takes at least that long (sometimes more) to go through the
stages of grieving that are necessary for healing, and also
said she's counseled numerous people who jumped right from
divorce into a new relationship only to realize they brought
all the hurt, doubt, distrust and issues of the M along with
them, and ended up killing the chance of a healthy, new
relationship. Also read in another source that it is not
uncommon for a newly D person to find themselves quickly
attracted to a new person because of loneliness, boredom,
need for attention, SF, etc.. rather than for that real
person and it ends up being a "rebound" situation that
ultimately hurts both people.
I know you are very level-headed and probably being really
careful, but sounds like "M" is really anxious and wanting
to move quickly (esp if you aren't even more than friends
and he is already telling family and friends about you and
your son) so I just sure don't want you or DS4 to get hurt.

Reason my IC had brought up anything about new relationships
was that I'd mentioned to her I was having an occasional
email back and forth with an old BF who had looked me up via
"Classmates.com" several months ago. It has been fun to
"catch up" and be reacquainted with him, but I very quickly
assured her it's nothing more than that and that I have NO
intention of any kind of new relationship for a LONG, LONG
time, if ever !! (think she kind of "jumped the gun" in
giving me all the cautions).

Otherwise, just working, have started therapy for my ankle,
and am trying to hang in there. Today's my anniversary,
(9 years) so it's kind of a tough day.
Slammed

Dear Slammed,

Thank you for posting and updating me with your latest. Also thank you for the reminder - it's so true, that either you get attracted to someone b/c you are lonely, or you may be attracted to someone for healthy reasons but you tend to bring all the hurt, distrust, etc. into a new relationship and end up ruining it.... I can see that easily, and I do have to remind myself not to think "I'm an exception", because I am NOT!

I'm glad you seem to have a very good IC. How often do you see her? I used to do the counseling over the phone (so that I do not have to sacrifice my time with DS4 at night), but in between different health insurance, it turned out that I exceeded the number of sessions I was allowed to have a year and ended up costing me $300 or so.....

I'm sorry you are having a hard day today. Any anniversary is hard. Even listening to certain songs is hard. Stay strong, Slammed...., hope you will be able to feel some peace despite all of this...

{{{Slammed}}}

Thanks again for visiting - it's always nice to hear from you.

Milk

OF COURSE this happened. I am such a fool. Over and over again, I want to trust WH......, even when we were 'happily' married, there were so many incidents that suggested that WH could not be trusted (not because he is an evil person, but he is just so easily influenced by others and also he does not have strong will). Why do I do this? I know why. Because deep down inside, I WANT to believe so badly that WH is a wonderful person. He cannot be such a broken person......

So this is what happened. Yesterday I took a day off but WH sent me an email with his lawyer's email attached. OF COURSE his lawyer is telling him how UNFAIR this settlement will be for him and that he should fight for more, etc., etc. WH clearly told him that he is happy with this settlement. Now OF COURSE he changed his mind and is asking me what I can do for him (meaning that I should give him more $$$ or reduce the child support, which he can't because he is NOT even paying the state mandated amount!!!).

Did he forget all of his promises? Did he forget that I am still paying for his fancy car as we speak?

I know it's just money, and at the end of the day, I will NOT get too stressed out about this. I won't.

BUT what depresses me is that AGAIN, WH proved that he cannot keep his words. It's really sad. Am I being too Asian??? I know in the Asian world, we believe in 'trust', 'honor', 'dignity', etc., and we may put too much stress on that. WH has said many times during the course of our marriage that I am ‘too’ Asian from that regards, because I hate lies and always made a big deal out of it. He did not think lying is such a big deal. Or canceling our plans to visit our friends a few hours before just because he 'does not feel like it' is not a big deal and I should not have been upset......

Is it in his DNA? Would my 4-year-old start behaving like this once he grows up? That he would lie to get what he wants when he wants it, without feeling guilty at all? That honoring your own promises is such an outdated, old-fashioned thing to do? And if you screw up, you can always come back and expect the person you have hurt so much will help you out? Without feeling any type of shame??? And if the person refuses to help you out, you have the right to get mad???

I'm hurt (again) that having the sincere (or so I thought) conversation truly does not mean anything to him......

Poor WH, he won't be able to have any type of solid relationships with anyone (with his own family, friends, co-workers, future GF) if he continues to behave this way and does not see any problems in doing so.

Or is he doing this, just because this is regarding D and also about money? I'm not sure, but if I try to put myself in his shoe....., I think I would still feel very ashamed if I keep changing my promises, even if it is about ugly thing such as divorce and finances. There still would be some emotions dealing with these issues for me, I believe...

Am I over-reacting here?

Milk

Agggh, I haven't replied to WH's emails, as I do NOT feel like doing so, frankly, after being lied to and being disappointed by him for about 1000 times. Also, I am now learning new tactics - I do not want to panic or REACT right away anymore. Most of the things can wait. And there is no need for me to get upset over something that is in a way, should have been expected and beyond my control anyway.

So I just went to lunch and successfully 'forgot' about it. Came back to my office, and there was another email from WH.

"I'm glad my lawyer was able to explain clearly where we stand so we could make reasonable and fair settlement..."

Excuse me? He knew exactly what we had on the table. He was willing to settle and repeatedly told his lawyer that he would be 'happy' with this and is not willing to 'renegotiate'. He said "I don't care if Milk ended up getting most of the assets, etc....."

Now he does not want to pay the state mandated 20% child support. Or he wants to get more in the settlement.

We have gone through this already. Obviously his lawyer by now figured that his client is very easy to manipulate and to convince. WH is like a puppet.

I think in the end I will let my lawyer handle this. I am tired of repeating the same things over and over EVERY freaking year.....

So much for having a 'soft spot' for WH's action a couple of weeks ago. Guess he will never change. My friends were right... But in a strange way, I am a bit relieved. This is WH. This is the reality. And I need to deal with it. I cannot keep thinking that WH is a wonderful sweet person I thought he was. The reality has been telling me that he is NOT that kind of person. And this DOES make it easier for me to completely ‘detach’ from him. WH keeps destroying whatever emotions I may have left inside me….., soon I am sure I would feel very HAPPY to be divorced. What a change. But WH has shown true him in front of me, and I do not have an ounce of respect for him left these days. Again, I will not need to ‘look back’ anymore. We are doing the right thing. I am better off this way……

Milk

Last night my parents and I were having dinner together....., and my dad, probably for the first time, expressed how he was thinking all this time about WH. He felt that it's perfectly possible that I was too strong in our relationship, making WH feel inadequate, etc., or he might not have felt that I loved him enough due to the cultural difference, etc., but that's something WH knew when he met and dated me over 16 years ago. We were together for a very long time...., it is not something that just happened or changed yesterday. What my dad thinks is that the fact we had our first child 4 years ago....., that changed our relationship. WH could no longer do his 'own' things, as I was complaining about his behavior. He was always like that, but until we had DS4 together, I could have let him do whatever he wanted and I had freedom too. But all of the sudden WH had to take care of his son and to start behaving in a responsible way, which he failed and was nagged at by me (and also by our mutual friends or my parents....., which now I realize was not necessarily a good thing). Now, my parents do NOT know about WH's arrests, drug use, or sexual addiction. I could not tell them. They would freak out. But even without such information, my dad's analysis might be pretty accurate...., he thinks WH could NOT be responsible enough to be a father, and he CHOSE to run away from his responsibilities. So my dad was actually VERY mad at him 3-4 years ago when he felt that I was doing everything (working full time and taking care of our son while WH was playing computer games all the time).

But what surprised me was more of how he said it.....; I felt a great amount of love from my father.

It IS sad that our M failed because we were too busy or we had our first child......, because DS4 was the best thing that ever happened to me in my life......, but at the same time, I felt very thankful to have parents who love and care about me so much. Their love for me is perfectly unconditional. And I am grateful for that. I hope I will be that kind of mother for DS4 and he would feel safe around me.

Milk

I was reading this article on WSJ this morning...., about how London parents are applying for prestigious elementary schools when their kids were just born! Wow. I thought my country is bad enough (parents over there tend to be very competitive to get their kids enrolled in good school), but it's happening everywhere then.... So much pressure.

I'm not that bad, but do believe that good education is the best asset you can pass on to your kids. WH did not have much input on this and DS4's extra curriculum classes and school selection has been my domain. I ran into an old friend of mine this morning on the train - we used to work together. He also has a 4-year-old boy. He and his wife have been together since college (and they are still happily married), and it seems they are on the same page in terms of how to raise kids and what type of education they wish for their children. Guess these things also contribute to a stable relationship...., that both parents are concerned about their children's upbringing..., instead of one parent doing everything for them and the other one does not really care or does not have any strong belief.

We've been hit by a pretty nasty snow storm and I am so glad my mom is here this week. Yesterday I checked with DS4's school and a girl said they were open so I drove all the way to his school, taking 4 times longer as everyone was just crawling on the street, to only find out that the school was closing in a few hours! Since I work in the city and cannot just come back when I receive calls from his school, I just made a U-turn and took DS4 back home so that my mom could watch him. This morning the news said that the most of schools were open, but it started to snow again and I ended up leaving DS4 at home again with my mom.

Otherwise I would have to take 2 days off just for the snow this week. I was shoveling last night and this morning again....., my back began to hurt a bit.

Happy Valentine's Day everyone!
Milk