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Is it possible to lose one's SELF? Can one so completely alter his "core," his lifelong values that they no longer connect with them at all? Well - even Darth Vader reverted back to the innocent Anakin Skywalker at the end. The good guy was still there all along. Quite some time ago, on your other thread, you said you were sure that your WH would only be relieved and happy about Plan B since he mostly ignored you anyway. I posted back that of course he can be smug and confident and safely ignore you when he thinks you are pining after him and can't wait for him to come back. I mean, think about it - first he saw you so fighting mad that you wound up in jail (and there but for the grace of Somebody go I), and then he saw your Plan A where you clearly wanted him back very, very much. Why wouldn't he feel smug and confident about always having LilSis as a backup in case the other thing doesn't work out? Hey, I can go see LilSis AS MUCH or AS LITTLE as I want, ANYTIME I want, and she'll be THRILLED to take whatever crumbs I throw her way. Oh, no you can't and no she won't. Not anymore. There is an enormous difference between thinking he can safely ignore you and see you anytime he feels like it, and suddenly being completely cut off from you by YOUR choice. Enormous, enormous, enormous. Just sit back and watch the show. Mulan
Me, BW
WH cheated in corporate workplace for many years. He moved out and filed in summer 2008.
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Thanks, everyone. I need those reminders every now and then. You are right, I DID say WH would be relieved and happy about Plan B. Doesn't mean I have to LIKE it...or wish that maybe he WEREN'T quite so relieved and happy. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I guess what I'm saying is, the show can start any day now. I'm sitting back, got my popcorn and Raisinettes....and so far all I'm seeing are those ads for the yellow pages, the laser car wash and Dr. Whosis the orthodontist...the ones that run before the previews even start. But I guess the show will all take place behind the curtain, anyway, since I'm dark. So I guess I can just go ahead and dig into my popcorn and Raisinettes and consider the advantages of THIS yellow pages over THAT yellow pages. Fascinating... The boys and I had a great walk in the park. We all enjoyed the sunshine and the smell of melting snow + wet dirt = spring. The boys enjoyed finding the sewer grates under the snow piles and dropping stuff down them and trying to block the flow of water into them. It was a pure delight to watch them. Boys...you know what I realized? They are sort of like dogs...they stink when they are wet. Everything is wet...snowpants, boots, socks, mittens, jeans...DS11 took off his wet socks when he got home and stuck them on the heater to dry. Big mistake, the fragrance wafted up as soon as the furnace kicked on.
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SHOL: I had read that some time ago and had a similar reaction, although not everything was a perfect fit. I suspect that WH has some of these tendancies, but isn't a full-blown PA...just somewhere on the continuum.
It seems like those tendancies surfaced BIG TIME when the A was secret. To me it seemed like he was just acting like a jerk for no good reason other than to hurt me.
And the family history stuff doesn't fit, either, not for either of us.
So I wonder how PA he REALLY is, and how much of it was behavior used to justify his A, push me away, or a way of disengaging with me and the kids.
KWIM?
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I really don't think that your WH is relieved to be in plan B. He is probably acting defiant at your attempt to manipulate him, so he is going to act like he doesn't care. Deep down inside I'm sure it irks him to death that you just can't go along with what he is doing. If he was truly relieved, he wouldn't have sent those snippy remarks to your intermediary like, "I'm sorry you had to be put in the middle of this, but..." It pisses him off that you are doing this, and he's going to try and hurt you to distract himself from his own pain. I'm sure he realizes the best way to hurt you would be to act like he is relieved by plan B. Don't let him hurt you anymore. Once he realizes that he can't, he'll quit with the games.
Jim BS - 32 (me) FWW - 33 Married 8/31/03 No kids (but 3 cats) D-Days - 8/25/06 (EA), 11/3/06 (PA) NC agreed to - 11/8/06 NC broken - 11/28/06, 12/16/06, 1/18/07, 1/26/07, 1/27/07 Status - In Recovery Jim's Story
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Good job with the Plan B. Schoolbus had some very interesting and insightful messages.
Let's hope RT is one of those OP who really only enjoys the persuit and now that she has WH all to herself, decides WH is not what whe wants after all. She achieved her goal, time to move on. It seems she enjoys A LOT of attention from others. This may also play into the demise of the relationship.
Praying for you.
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Let's hope RT is one of those OP who really only enjoys the persuit and now that she has WH all to herself, decides WH is not what whe wants after all. She achieved her goal, time to move on. It seems she enjoys A LOT of attention from others. This may also play into the demise of the relationship. Unfortunately, I don't think she is that kind of OP. She has three kids, and is now D'd from her attorney husband, to whom she was married for 13 years. Her family was of a strict religious denomination. She must be desperate to have something to hang on to...and the thing she needs to hang on to is WH. He provides her with stability and security...she gave up EVERYTHING to be with him. I truly believe she was looking to get out before she hooked up with WH, and he was just the ticket she needed. She used him, and he was willingly used. He "rescued" her from her "miserable" life. It's like I said when I first came here...extremely cunning and highly manipulative OW has her claws in deep. WH is giving up EVERYTHING, too, but no one in WH's life is making it easy for him...me, kids, parents, family, friends (?). RT had no one standing in her way. One thing I do cling to is something someone said on my earlier thread...that no one except the OP celebrates a D or the destruction of a family...I hope that WH ultimately finds that unappealing. But so far...he has not found ANYTHING about her to be unappealing. I know...assumptions...but still. He's clinging SO hard. Meanwhile...his kids, his kids...he's not a fixture in their lives anymore. He's a visitor. Sigh.
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LS,
Have you seen the movie A River Runs Through it?
Robert Redford dir. Bratt Pitt (Paul) wayward prodigal son of a preacher, husband, brother. His character gives a good grasp persona of those who live on the edge. Comforting.
More distraction. Time to jazz up that popcorn. Make it a
X-tra Special Time for you and kids...
Fresh Strawberries with melted cholocate drizzles are nice.
Glass of white chilled wine. R/Relax. More Movies. Let them do the drama. You have been through e-nuff.
You don't get the wages/perks the actors do. Waywards in real life makes us all poorer&stressed out. We can't just turn them off.
Hunker Down Popcorn recipe:
Source: Best of the Best From Illinois cookbook:
18 cups popped popcorn
1 tablespoon butter or light margarine (Promise)
2/3 cup light corn syrup
2 teaspoons vanilla extract
1 (3.4 ounce) box Instant butter pecan, butterscotch or vanilla pudding mix
1/2 cp pecans
1/2 teaspoon salt
Preheat oven to 300 degrees F. Spray a large roasting pan with Pam.
Pop corn in air popper (enough kernels to make 18 cups popped corn).
In Pyrex cup, microwave butter until melted (or melt in saucepan on stove). Stir in corn syrup, vanilla extract and pudding mix with a fork. Pour syrup over popcorn and toss with wooden spoon. Sprinkle salt over corn. Toss, taste, sprinkle.
Do it again until it says "Hello!" Return to 300 degree F oven for 8 minutes.
Toss again.
Determine if it needs another few minutes to make it glossy. Toss. Taste.
Turn out on a large piece of foil to cool. Break into bits. Store leftovers (if any) in covered tin box.
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You are right, skylite.
Slap, slap! Knock it off, LS!! Give it to God!! Be good to yourself and the boys!
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((lilsis))
I just wanted to share something with you that God told me when I was at the worst in all of this:
Your WH is God's prodigal, not yours. Let him (your WH) be God's problem-and enjoy your boys.
All my kids are home tonight (DS18 on spring break from college and DD21 and her hubby are here to enjoy time with him). It's the best!
johnstwin-
"I may not know what the future holds, but I know who holds my future." -Martin Luther
Remarried my FXH 25 years to the day of our first M. God is so good-and sometimes so unexpected!
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johnstwin: I wish I had that clarity of hearing when it comes to talking to God. I wish God could 2x4 me because I think that's the only thing that will sink in. But it raises a question for me...
For more veteran Plan Bers: I still feel like I am fixating on WH. I still spend a lot of time thinking about him and WISHING for him to come around.
Is this my own withdrawal?
Will this subside?
I need to stop HOPING and start TRUSTING. Does anyone else see a difference?
Hoping is a active thing. It has a pre-determined end point. It is specific. I HOPE that it will be sunny on a day that I have an outdoor activity planned. You spend a lot of time hoping, knowing something could go this way or that way.
Trusting is more passive. It is simply a way of being. It is a certainty about what is true or will be true. I TRUST that my paycheck will be deposited into my checking account on payday. You do not spend a lot of time trusting, because you know that what should happen will happen.
So I need to stop hoping and start trusting God. That's hard for me.
One, I don't have a long relationship with God.
Two, the person I trusted most in the WORLD (yeah, I know...humans) betrayed my trust completely.
Three, I keep thinking of my dad's death...he was a kind and gentle man who spent his whole life and career helping people and he died this horrible, painful death when he was only 63. What was the plan in that? What good came from that?
So saying "trust God" is easy to say, and even easy to do--in theory. But in practice?? How do I do that? Every time I pray for the strength to trust God, these little doubts (see 1, 2, 3 above) tickle the back of my mind. I'm sure God can't be thrilled with that...with my doubt.
I watched Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire again the other night with the boys. For those of you who know HP, I want the ability to use the pensieve. In the movie, it's so well-done--just like I imagined it when I read the book--Dumbledore sticks the wand a little away from his head and these memories get sucked out of his mind into the wand, and he drops them into this pensieve, so he can revisit them when he wants.
That's what I WANT (yeah, I know...my will, not God's) God to do for me. Suck out all this WISHING so that I can focus on my life and all the joy that it holds for me. Stop me from fixating on WH.
Sorry for the ramble. Any suggestions for trusting God? Any scripture passages that address it specifically that I can visit and revisit?
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LilSis, before you go wishing to remove thoughts and memories, watch or read "The Eternal Sunshine of a Spotless Mind". You'll change your thought on this point.
Sis, please don't focus on how your father died, but how he lived and how he was loved. My mother, too, did not have an easy battle with death (cancer), but that does not mean that God is the culprit. It was just her bodies time.
No matter what we all say here, the path to ending your fixation and wishing is not a short one. Time will help. Yes, you have your own withdrawal; of course you do, just as anyone with loss has. It is a grieving process. CHANGE is tough, and this is a major change.
I have thoughts about this whole mess, but they do not rule me as they once did. Time, Lilsis. Also, training yourself to shift your focus onto the REAL, on what you KNOW to be true. You will assume and speculate. When I start to think of what WH may be feeling, I remember that I have no idea and it's a fruitless pursuit to think over it.
Maybe, your R with God will become stronger through all of this, when you wake up everyday, and still have beauty surrounding you, and the sinister things are banished from your life (WS and OP).
Me-BS-38
Married 1997; son, 8yo
Divorced April 2009
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make yourself a "God Box"
put stuff in it
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LilSis Yes, this is withdrawal - and as another poster mentioned, it's useful to experience this, as it's what WH will feel if he leaves RT voluntarily. Now might be a good time to look at a spot of personal development? You haven't really had much breathing time to do a lot of reading, I imagine, and there's a lot you could be learning that would benefit both you and WH. You see, I think your WH is doing something that has a tiny strand of inner wisdom in it <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />, and it might be helpful to try to understand what's motivating him here. If you think of him as someone who's been kind of trapped by a 'good boy' image that was pinned to him as a kid, and who has been struggling with feelings that there's more to him than that, but who tried to suppress those feelings rather than acknowledge them...what do you think happened when he encountered RT? Someone showing him that she was prepared to go to the naughty places he'd been struggling not to think about? Someone eager to accompany him to the other side of the line, where his long-suppresssed 'bad boy' thoughts were dying to go too? The Nixon thing and other stuff he's written suggest to me that he really thinks he's honouring something important to him. Of course, all that's happening now is that he's suppressing lots of the good-boy impulses, in just the way he did with the bad-boy stuff...but somewhere in there I think he feels he's doing something that's 'true' to himself. I hesitate to recommend David Schnarch's 'Passionate Marriage' right now - excellent as it is, I think all the relationship stuff might be a bit of a trigger. One that I've found very useful in understanding false vs real selves and the rest of it is 'Undefended Love' by Psaris and Lyons. There are a bunch of others that are worth reading too. When he comes back, he won't be the same person, you know? The whole relationship will have to be a different shape. TA
"Integrity is telling myself the truth. And honesty is telling the truth to other people." - Spencer Johnson
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You need to give your doubts to God, too. Just like with fear vs. courage, it doesn't matter so much if you feel it, as whether you allow it to impact your actions. The fearful person who acts courageously is still courageous, and the person who has been assailed with doubts, who still actively shows their trust in God, has faith. You may not have had a R with God before, but you do now. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> And, as you will see in the following Psalm, you are still not as bad off as David. He actually had people running from him in the street, lol! Psalm 31
1 In Thee, O LORD, do I put my trust; let me never be ashamed; deliver me in Thy righteousness.
2 Bow down Thine ear to me, deliver me speedily; be Thou my strong rock, a house of defense to save me.
3 For Thou art my rock and my fortress; therefore for the sake of Thy name, lead me and guide me.
4 Pull me out of the net that they have laid privily for me, for Thou art my strength.
5 Into Thine hand I commit my spirit; Thou hast redeemed me, O LORD God of truth.
6 I have hated them that have regard for lying vanities; but I trust in the LORD.
7 I will be glad and rejoice in Thy mercy, for Thou hast considered my trouble. Thou hast known my soul in adversities,
8 And hast not delivered me into the hands of the enemy; Thou hast set my feet in a large room.
9 Have mercy upon me, O LORD, for I am in trouble; mine eye is consumed with grief, yea, my soul and my belly.
10 For my life is spent with grief, and my years with sighing; my strength faileth because of mine iniquity, and my bones are consumed.
11 I am a reproach among all mine enemies, but especially among my neighbors, and a fear to mine acquaintances; they that see me in the streets flee from me.
12 I am forgotten as a dead man, out of mind; I am like a broken vessel.
13 For I have heard the slander of many; fear was on every side; while they took counsel together against me, they schemed to take away my life.
14 But I have trusted in Thee, O LORD; I said, "Thou art my God."
15 My times are in Thy hand; deliver me from the hand of mine enemies and from them that persecute me.
16 Make Thy face to shine upon Thy servant; save me for Thy mercies' sake.
17 Let me not be ashamed, O LORD, for I have called upon Thee; let the wicked be ashamed, and let them be silent in the grave.
18 Let the lying lips be put to silence, which speak grievous things proudly and contemptuously against the righteous.
19 O how great is Thy goodness which Thou hast laid up for them that fear Thee, which Thou hast wrought for them that trust in Thee before the sons of men!
20 Thou shalt hide them in the safety of Thy presence from the pride of man; Thou shalt keep them secretly in a pavilion from the strife of tongues.
21 Blessed be the LORD, for He hath shown me His marvelous kindness in a stronghold city!
22 For I said in my haste, "I am cut off from before Thine eyes!" Nevertheless Thou heard the voice of my supplications when I cried unto Thee.
23 O love the LORD, all ye His saints! For the LORD preserveth the faithful, but plentifully rewardeth the proud doer.
24 Be of good courage, and He shall strengthen your heart, all ye that hope in the LORD.
Happily recovered!and Happily Married :0)
Commit your works to the LORD and your plans will be established.
Proverbs 16:3
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Congrats. You made it through another entire day/night! Ohhh nooo, no slaps. Only smacks. Smacks are (kisses) to be exchanged between you & your kids. Rx.Lots of them. Daily. Goin tru "mirky yucky" grief emotions. You might want to visit the recovery thread. Mates4Life& Lovinganyways posts. They have done such great excellent work,shared research on personal recovery info. This is your own recovery time of healing. Remember this is the classic bait, switch & transference. You didn't create the mess, or should you own the misdirected guilt. Your in the position of re-directing traffic. Zooming into this OW- Venomous Mizz. Cruella DeVil comes to mind. Character in 101-Dalmatians. Bet the profile fits. Ckek it out... 101-Dalmatians. http://disney.go.com/disneyvideos/animatedfilms/101/story_08.htmlPerhaps, one day you could give this movie copy to your hubby as a gift. As they say a picture speaks a thousand words. You didn't say a thing. Said in the wispiest softest tone. Something to watch when the kids are around. Family Time. FYI...Excellent article. The Silent Epidemic. www.christianitytoday.com/tcw/2004/005/11.68.htmlLiter Side. Breaking up with your (hairstylist) is hard to do. http://www.christianitytoday.com/women/features/funnybone.html
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ditto on the God Box.
It helped me IMMENSELY.
I see much to hope for LilSis; when you describe just how much both your husband and his OW gave up...to me this spells recipe for disaster. Why? Because an expectation is now set: "I gave up everything and now you owe me."
It's more than an expectation that he each must stay because he owes her. She's set the bar far higher than that on him, and he on her. She is expecting roses and chocolates and champagne and princess treatment every day of her life as her "prize" for dumping her family of 13 years.
When your husband fails to be the perfect princie charming, tempers will flare and entitled love busting will commence.
Remember, he has some similar expectations of her too, and while she is lovebusting in anger at his failure to deliver and he watches his fantasy blow up in his face, your Plan A is going to be playing in his mind...
While you were plan Aing...both of them could blame you for the problems they were having. You've stepped out of the triangle and now they are left alone with only each other to blame. Thats why it takes both Plan A and Plan B.
But now, STOP obsessing about them.
YOU need to be on Plan Sis. Part of Plan B means moving on with your life.
You will never ever ever go back to your old life. Your husband might choose to join you in the new life, but right now, you can't count on that. Start planning a life that YOU will enjoy with your boys.
Choose to think about something besides that trainwreck.
Think of it this way:
This week in NYC there was a horrible horrible fire, and 8 children were burned to death. I can't even begin to tell you how upsetting it is to me to think of those children in their last moments. It was a horrific tragedy that could have been prevented by a couple of very small things.
I can choose to let my mind obsess over those events, and have my entire mental well being disturbed. Or I can choose to turn my mind away from the horror, and focus on something else.
Fortunately for me, I learned these skills during my husband's affair.
Choose to think about other things LilSis. Choose to think about the wonderful, good, beautiful things in your life, and plan a fantastic life moving forward.
Your husband's life and choices are his, no point in standing by the trainwreck, the burned out shell of your marriage, and obsessing over what you can not fix or control. All it does is infect your life - and your little boys need you to be strong in the face of uncertaintity right now!
Stop thinking about him!
~ Pain is a given, misery is optional ~
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Focus on you.
YOU can have a wonderful, juicy, succulent life.
Your husband has no power to say otherwise - unless you GIVE him that power by obsessing.
Last edited by BrambleRose; 03/11/07 10:41 AM.
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LS:
Good Morning. Hope you went to church this morning....
That's always a start.
Can say I have crossed that bridge yet.
And Journal yourself through the next six weeks. You will find various signposts along the way that will indicate your detachment from WH. You have taken the off ramp from this dysfuntional R with WH and you will start to accelerate away as time moves forward.
And if H decides to return?
The thoughts and feelings that you have experienced from day one of Plan B to that date, will start to occur for your H. And you can help be supportive in following that path you have already walked.
And if H never shows up.....
Then your process of healing has already started.
Although I still BELIEVE that H will return.
Also, you have an intermediary. She is great, and you need to just BE STILL with her. Try not to parse every note/call/email from WH.
WH is not doing this. H might be, but H still needs the Plan B to keep working on him to really start to process it.
One day, he will realize putting his key in the door of the empty MIL's house (or his new, yet unleased place) that this is his life for the next several years. Cause RT isn't giving up the $$$ to be with him.
Cuz LilSis will be going on with her life.
And he is stuck.
Very powerful that. But it is a realization that he needs to face. No one else can ever put it there.
((((((LS))))))
LG
LS:
In regards to your Dad: I like SL's idea to think about his life, not his death.
I coach Little League Baseball, and a member of our team, for two years, 14, was killed in an auto accident the other day.
The kid smiled alot and had enthusiasm for the game. He was never going to be great, but his attitude was always positive.
And I will remember that.
LG
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Invalidation to Validation... Tune Time lil-lo distraction adjustment. Aretha Franklin gospel soul raising song!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> Aretha Franklin's: Respect Song. Hilariously, cute! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4662694154560792485
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Is this my own withdrawal?
Will this subside?
I need to stop HOPING and start TRUSTING. Does anyone else see a difference? ((((lilsis))))) gosh the first days...weeks seem to pass so slowly/ I feel your pain and I am so sorry but why stop hoping? hope is good...but maybe the way to think is to hope for a better life for you...regardless of WH's choices. In plan B I have done much soul searching..have pretty much defined to myself what I want out of life..and I am determined to get it...I have planneed the R I want to have...planned the life changes I want to make (big and small)...and I believe that WS has as great a chance of anyone to step in and fill those shoes... when the time is right. yes the road is long and winding, but every step in the journey you take changes your view, and then that new perspective makes the next step a bit easier. pretty soon you will go from a brisk walk to a jog and the nicer the view the faster you want to go because recovery feels better than where you've been...you are going to make your life the best it can be....keep in your mind that your WH is not welcome on that path, but your H is...and having hope and faith..is believing that you WILL have a great life regardless of H's choice to join in.
Fightingback
BS (me) 36
WS 39
3 kids 3,4,8
together 15yrs
EA 9/06, PA 10/06
12/07 plan A
1/13/07 WS moves out
1/27/07 1st attempt plan B
2/20/07 REAL plan B
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