I don't think that all situations are the same Mimi. As far as what I am basing it on... my obseravtions...same thing that I have been right about time after time on this site.... not always, but frequently.
Again, if the Harley's were always right, there would be far fewer divorces here...too many people do not fit the mold...many do, but not all.
I will be happy to eat my words on this... but I do not see this divorce train getting derailed by her WH.
And that is ONE purpose of Plan B Mimi... the others are to preserve the love that a BS has left.... for them to become stronger.

If someone can show me that it's a purpose, I'd like to see it. It's a side effect. The purpose of Plan B is to save the marriage.

You are CORRECT, SD. Plan B is the LAST RESORT according to MBer's.

MEDC:

I happen to agree with you alot of the time here. I don't think that this posters WH is in a fog at all. He is making rational decisions and IS IMHO very well aware of the consequences of his actions. This has been going on for years.....This "YEARS after" relationship stuff is talked about like it is gospel. IT ISN'T. It is alot of rationalization to keep up hope. I am not saying that is bad, but to hear some of the rationaizations saying otherwise IMHO border on the absurd. That having been said, I have hope for this poster and the outcome of this case. I happen to define good outcome probabaly different than many "experts" here.

I don't think this relationship he has (LILsis WH) will survive LONG TERM (they never do), but I am sorry to say, IT won't be because of the pressure Lilsis is exerting on him with her plans. I really don't.

The best possible outcome for this case is for Lilsis to truly recover herself and to TRULY DETACH from this man and his actions. SHE IS NOT THERE YET. Her Plan B is still all about getting (hoping) to get reactions out of him. Other popular posters here used that approach and were successful so they go on preaching that. I happen to think that is ultimately a mistkae. She is settting herself up for continued dissapointment with this...you can see it so evidently.

Am I being to pessimistic? Maybe, but it it what it is. Can this marriage survive this? Absolutely? Will it?....dunno, but if Lilsis makes the changes in herself that she needs to...It won't matter. THAT'S MY POINT. I still contend that this should NOT be about the marriage recovering...but about the BS recovering. TOO many people still define good outcome be whether they stayed married or not.....well, this is called "amrriage builders" after all, so maybe I am the one out to lunch <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

This place is littered with people who recovered their marriages but are shattered versions of themsleves trying to recover themsleves after the fact. It is sad.

JMHO

LM

edited: for clarity and additonal thoughts

I agree with all that you said here LM.

Funny, I've never posted on this thread but a bunch of men seem to be showing up all at once, carrying cold water.

I am troubled by the talk I've seen here about finding young studs to hang plants and about pointing rental cars so the plates don't show, all that. I doubt such shenanigans accomplish much outside keeping the BS steeped in drama. I advise against any of it though I appreciate that it might be fun to imagine and that's pretty much what's gone on.

As for the purpose of the separation created by this plan... try not to lose sight of reality. You're doing the best you can, but if an affair survives a few months of "plan B" there's a very good chance you're going to be divorced, despite the doomed nature of the relationship that's causing the divorce. Why not consider this a time to begin breaking the attachment you have to your partner?

I won't comment about whether or not any of it is a good idea. I held the door open for a cheating spouse once and I wouldn't do it again. It exacts a price on you.

I wrote this before I saw LM's post. Some confluence of ideas...

GC

TJ here,

Lemmonman I would like your opinion on my situation. Would you mind just checking it out?

My thread is Need Opinions...

And Graycloud don't know much about your situation but why wouldn't you hold the door open just curious?

Still

Well, I'm not a shattered version of myself, because, as sdguy said, a side-effect of Plan B is recovery of self. I got back to me and am actually looking back, grateful that I followed the Plan.

Now, if you are working the Harley version of these plans, then I believe that you are implementing Plan B to save the M. If the M is not saved, you have the time to prepare yourself, and to heal quite a bit.

I don't know what Sis's WH will do, because I have no idea what he is thinking; yes, his actions show a man of conviction, but I've seen many a person being led by others in their conviction. In other words, who knows if Sis WH is making all of these decisions or if he is being led by his puppet strings. Who knows? Hence, Plan B. Separate yourself from this destructive person, detach and figure it out from there.

I guess I don't understand why it's bad to let Sis know that her sitch is not terribly different from others here, and that hope is not a bad thing. Sis is already fully aware that she is heading toward D, we don't need to fill her in on that, or that her WH was the one who filed. She gets it. It's not false hope, it's JUST hope.

Believe it that she has her own doubts, so she's not flying blind. However, this situation is not a kind one, it is painful, as we all know, and she will still be pained whether she sees WH as a person who is completely lost to her or not. I don't necessarily think this is true, but I don't know what he's thinking, and a waywards actions can be wackadoo many times.

No one suggested that it was a bad thing to let her know her sitch is the same...but I also don't think it is a bad thing for others to point out their impressions....even if they are different. I keep up on Lilsis' thread so I really don't need a synopsis...
Nobody is carrying cold water either...at times there needs to be some views from some who see things another way.... anybody want to raise their hand about how they read Eav wrong or many other posters here. This is the beauty of a forum... lots of opinions and ways to look at things.

I don't think there is anything wrong with hope and I think you are missing my point here. I guess at the core of it, I think thinking of "self recovery" as a "side effect" of PLAN B is in of itself wrong and unhealthy. I think GC said it best when he said it exacts a toll on you. That price gets steeper the longer you let it rise without truly detaching. Lilsis IMHO is not truly detaching...

Noone is saying that hope is lost, or that the marriage is doomed...uyyy veyyy

I am quickly reminded why I don't post that much here anymore.....I am misunderstood <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> (laughing at myself).

LM

Mmmm, I disagree. They haven't lived together. You know the old saying, you never really know a person until you live with them.

Sorry for misunderstanding LM.

I can tell you that it took me a great deal of time and pain to get to the point of detachment for me (~5 mos). I think Sis will get there, but not quickly. It's really sort of a natural event in this process. Maybe it takes longer for women as opposed to men. I don't know.

LM, don't let peeps misunderstanding keep you from posting. You enlighten with each post.

Giving up your attachment is not giving up hope.

Wow...get away for an afternoon and look what happens.

Self recovery...marital recovery....he!! I'm so confused.

However: I MUST recover myself. That is an absolute necessity; I have two boys who depend on me almost exclusively. And if I consider how far down I was when I bottomed out, I'll take some credit (thank you) for being on the right path.

But it is very slow going. And no, I'm not there yet. I am not to the point that SL described yesterday, ready for D, but not "happy" about it. I still want to fight it. I don't want to accept it.

Now...does it really MATTER whether or not self-recovery is a side effect or a primary objective of Plan B? No. It doesn't. MB is not a scientifically tested and proven theory. It is a strategy to help SOME people recover marriages. It does not work for everyone.

I'm willing to give it a shot, because I do not want to lose my marriage or my husband. I don't want my boys to grow up without a father, I don't want to give up on the man that I married, I don't want my memories turned into a lie, I don't want to give up my dreams, I don't want to break my promises.

There are a lot of compelling reasons to try to save my marriage, and not a lot of compelling reasons to throw in the towel, particularly if there is a possibility (however slim) that the MB strategy might work. It HAS worked for some.

Have I detached? No. I don't really know how. I would like to detach, but it is very, very hard.

I disagree with the statement that I am doing things to get a reaction from WH. I am doing NOTHING. I have not seen nor spoken to WH in 11 weeks. Chit-chat on the thread about backing in the driveway; whatever...it's all in fun. And planting the tree...I may likely need some male help with that. I guess if I were totally detached it wouldn't even occur to me.

Have I recovered? No. But as I said, I am working on it and making progress. No one who has read ALL of my story could deny that. I appreciate SL's timeline...5 months for detachment, much of it pain-filled.

I am going to get there. With or without WH. I am a survivor...and I don't say that in the Gloria Gaynor way...but as an objective truth. It is who I am...one foot in front of the other, do not give up, do not quit, do what needs to be done...every day.

And GUYS...I sincerely appreciate the alternative points of view. If you read some of my more recent posts I think that you will appreciate that I have been struggling with this.

Again...my head is telling me that MEDC and LM are right. WH is committed to this self-destructive path and show no sign--at all--of slowing down. Saying this DOES NOT MEAN that he is not a typical WS. He is addicted, but I don't have any evidence that he is struggling to kick the habit, or even desirous of kicking the habit. And even if/when--in TYPICAL WS form--the adulterous liaison crumbles, it may be too late to recover my marriage. It could be two, three years down the road, by which time I've moved on.

This site is also littered with people for which that has been the case.

I can tell you, I WON'T be one of those who is not personally recovered. My marriage...I don't know.

But you are all correct...I have not detached yet. I'm sort of looking to SL to coach me through that one, since it was so recent for her. It is reassuring to know that it took her time to get there, too.

you need to post more lem, you have been missed.

i, for one, always liked your "radical honest reality sometiems it don't always work out" approach because it is the truth.

as medc said, there are many different ways to look at things and they are all based upon our own personal experiences. i could have plan b'd til the cows came home and my marriage would not have recovered. it was done, dead and done. my ex has lived with ow and has for almost 2 years now. is it picture perfect in their lives? i have no idea nor do i care. they seem ok, i don't see anyone ending it anytime soon. but i am a different person because of plan a and plan b concepts. i know i have changed and that is all good. i am becoming the best of who i can be regardless of whether our marriage had worked out or not (which it did not).

mlhb

sorry for the tj, just wanted to reply to lem. my situation is in no way an indication of our lil sis's or anyone else's sitch for that matter, is going to turn out.

FYI: I had a big sobfest at IC today. Mostly about how I am so conflicted: wanting to NOT let go vs. wanting to let go. The frustration of that, the confusion I feel over this internal battle.

I tell you this just so you all know...(the guys who posted today especially)...that I am not just sitting here blowing with the winds of the thread...I'm working on this very consciously.

Trying to figure it out, for ME.

This is saying how folks COPE differently...

IF I HAD ALLOWED MY HEAD TO SAY WHAT MEDC AND LEMON ARE SAYING, I WOULD HAVE GIVEN UP...That's me..

I can't even bear to read your thread when I start thinking that way...That's me...

My point of doing PLAN B was to SAVE MY MARRIAGE..if there was ANY possibility that PLAN B would do that..I was in..

That's me...

There's no RIGHT WAY or WRONG WAY to be...

I AM WHO I AM...

I'm trying to grow to understand Lem and MEDC..REALLY!!

Lilsis......I think you have done great...please don't misunderstand my possts for criticisms of you and your situation. This has been a soul crushing, life altering experience and please realize that MEDC and myself only want the best for you. We don't post because we want to rain on your parade or be party poopers.

You are a smart, tough woman...I wouldn't post to you if I didn't think you could take it and could decipher what I am saying.

LM

LS:

Is your WH typical?

No.

He's Wayward.
He's doing wayward things
He's Taking care of the responsibilities that he deems necessary to be responsible for: (Dad time, CS, various OTHER Things.)

So in many respects he is typical.

But he is YOUR WH. So he is typical to us, but something more to you.

The decisons he makes? His.

Under the RatTurd Sun or whatever influence, they are his choices.

Is he striding purposefully towards his future? (to paraphase someone famous...)

Maybe, and nobody here knows.

MEDC, LM, GC, or even Mimi. It's all opinion.

And of most of the posters here today, I'm the only one who has been inside the WH head. Not LS WH, Mine.

So.

From my perspective, and in my very humble OPINION:

I think this Plan B is really getting under his skin.

He had a 3 year A with another married woman.

He didn't leave then.

On Dday, LS went a little crazy and WH said "EEEEKK" and filed the next day.

RT got divorced.

WH still hasn't moved in.

Why not?

Cuz RT gets cash for a period of time. Maybe.

Because LS insisted the boys not be around RT? Maybe.

Because WH is choosing the path of least resistance? Maybe.

Because WH is not really sure WHAT he wants to do? Maybe.

A couple of more darts may get to HIS specific reason.

Still typical WH. But special in his own way.

Now.

Had LilSis found MB one week before Dday?

I do not think we would be having this discussion at all.

LS would have never Slapped RT.

And WH would have never had that road of least resistance available to him.

So. He is typical WH. But special to LS.

WH needs to make the choice. I still think he will.

Because in all this, I still do not think that he is doing the "striding purposefully" to a future without LS.

HE is still on the fence.

Yes, the majority is leaning one way, but he is not fully committed to this action.

Checking the garage, walking into the house, trying to bypass LK.

All signs to me, that he is going crazy, and not committed to his actions.

LS may not ever recover her M. That's WH choice.

Plan B gives her the opportunity to grow and become a better person, which she has.

LS may eventually get a divorce from WH.

But she can HOPE for a different outcome.

And one day, she will have an answer.

Whether that answer comes Aug 2, 2007 or Aug 2, 2008, or Aug 2, 2009.

Or some other date.

Keep on trucking LilSis, you will arrive at a destination, where you do not know the ultimate destination, but the signposts will be readable and the turns that need to be made, will be made WITH YOUR CHOICES, not WH's. And that is what Plan B gives you.

(((LS)))

LG

****APPLAUSE****

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