Let MIL deal with the consequences of letting her DS do whatever he wishes, including dumping his dog and the mess and responsibility on her. She could say no to him...

It's not petty to not take on any action about something that you don't control. This is now your MIL's problem. All there is for you to do, if/when asked, is to say, "No thank you".

A bit late to the party, but my take on detachment is that it is another consequence of Plan B for most people. You have to do it, or else you can't survive without hating your WS. The point of Plan B is to save the marriage. That is why LilSis came here. That is why she consults with the Harleys. (Correct me if I'm wrong.)

Based on my conversations with Jennifer, I think she would disagree that Plan B is about detaching or getting ready to move on. Jennifer wants to save marriages. Detaching is just something most of us have to do in order to preserve the willingness to reconcile because it's just too painful to watch the behavior of waywards up close. I think, and I'm only guessing here, that if one could make it through Plan B WITHOUT detaching, the Harleys would encourage doing that, because you will be better positioned to reconcile. It sounds like Mimi was able to do this. Most of us aren't, but the closer you come to moving on, the less likely you are to preserve your willingness to reconcile.

This is my take, anyway. LS, since you have already invested so much in this, think about what it is you want, and then, if you aren't sure how to proceed, schedule another appointment with Jennifer.

It goes without saying that most everyone here thinks you're doing a great job, you're worthy of our respect, and you will be happy whatever happens.

hahadoggiedoodoo

plan B consequences for da'mud'a too

all together now >>> awwwwwww <<<

thinking to myself:~~~~ [color:"brown"] TURD VILLE [/color] has new meaning <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Pep - that was he-larious! Thanks for the laugh.

(waving) Hi LilSis!!

There is a distinction that needs to be made, I think, between DETACHMENT and disentangling. What has happened in the past in your relationships/marriages is what I would call "entanglement." That is when a whole bunch of YOUR self-esteem and YOUR identity and YOUR feelings were tangled up with him...like you felt loved and valuable if HE loved you but if he was mad at you, you felt unloved and not-so-valuable...when in real life you were lovable and valuable whether he was mad at you or not. See what I mean? A bunch of what defined YOU was tangled up with HIM.

Now, in Plan B, you can learn how to disentangle. You learn how to have self-esteem on your own because you are a smart, funny, great person! You don't have to have your WH or any H to have an identity--you are a mom and you are a child of God and you are YOU!! You start to learn that you have the right to your own feelings and they don't have to be based on another person or how they "might" react...you can choose to be sad or choose to be accepting...it YOUR choice, not being tangled up with some other person.

OTOH, I think of detachment being where you are disentangled (differentiated) and you choose whether to be attached or detached from someone (their choices and actions) and YOU are choosing to be detached. Now, what happens sometimes is a M where two people are disentangled from each other, but one spouse does something that the other spouse isn't crazy about (let's say...softball). So the one spouse is obsessed with softball, and the other spouse DETACHES from the softball obsession! See the difference? The detached spouse does not tangle up their identity or their self-value in the fact that the other spouse is a softball fanatic. That is still completely intact!! They just detach from the actions and consequences of the obsession with a sport (and the lack of POJA).

What people are advocating here is that in Plan B, many/most BS's learn to DISENTANGLE from their WS...but for a while, for a timeframe of their choosing, the BS may maintain some attachment to their WS because they hope to someday recover their marriage. Thus, I think when most people here say "DETACH" what they are actually meaning is "DISENTANGLE" and when the BS has learned enough to be disentangled, then one day they will reach their boundary or limit or timeframe and will move forward in DETACHING.

Your mama bee,



CJ

I saw RT.

TRIGGER TRIGGER TRIGGER.

We had just spent an hour running errands...I had to go to the credit union where all the accounts are overdrawn and deposit a check. The teller said to me, "Oh you look familiar, I think I've waited on you." I told her that I am here occasionally, but I typically go to the other branch because it's closer. She said, "I haven't see WH in here recently either." (of course, Officer Friendly knows all the tellers by name. My eyes started to tear up, and I said, "He hasn't seen a lot of people recently." She looked at me sympathetically and said, "I'm so sorry. I didn't mean to bring something up." "It's okay," I said, now tears coming down, "it's not you. I'm the one who's sorry." She had the saddest look on her face, which just makes me feel worse.

So I wipe away my tears and we head over (through a huge construction zone) to DS8's friends house to pick him up for a sleepover. Just as we pick him up, I call the neighborhood Papa John's to get the $5.99 pizza. We arrived; I had to wait a couple of minutes and the boys waited in the car.

This is all within two blocks of ILs one way and about four blocks from RT's the other way. I was feeling anxious, but I was trying to tell myself that it was silly...that I have every right to be here, that I shouldn't feel so jumpy.

Across the street from the PJ's is a gas station. I look out the window while she's boxing up the pizza, and there is a stupid Chrysler minivan pulling into the gas station. And I knew it was her...just a sense. Evil in the vicinity.

As I pulled out of the PJ's, I glanced over and sure enough, it was her, getting gas. I said aloud, "Oh my God." and looked straight ahead the direction I was heading. DS11 says what's wrong, mom? I said that I just saw someone I didn't want to see. My hands were shaking so hard. DS11 sees her, too. She is right there. The two little guys were clueless in the backseat, playing some game and giggling.

We got home and I got DS8 and his little buddy set up with their pizza out on the patio. DS11 and I were going to eat inside, but DS11 is reluctant. He tells me that as soon as he saw her he got sick to his stomach. I just gave him a hug, told him I was sorry, and said that I thought some pizza would help. So he and I sat down and discussed the various pizza places and the advantages of each.

I think it was an okay recovery.

After we were done eating, I told DS11 he could watch some TV, and I went outside to call my mom and just bawl to her. I HATE that I feel like I can't even go the the pizza place without jumping out of my skin. I hate that tomorrow I was going to go to the little neighborhood market to get my impatiens--like I do every year--but I am freaked out by being so near to RT's house, about the possibility of seeing her.

It does almost feel like that EVIL aura exists anywhere that she could possibly be...anywhere near her house, near the coffee shop. I NEVER go past the coffee shop anymore unless I cannot help it....and if it is a time when she MIGHT be working, I do NOT look (actually I secretly give it the finger with my hand on the steering wheel).

Why do I let that get to me? I have no reason to be ashamed...but I flee from even the possibility of her presence like the plague. She's the adultress. She's the fornicator. She's the homewrecker. But she walks around as if she's golden.

I think I am going to open a bottle of wine.

(((LilSis)))

Oh, LS. What a huge trigger.

You handled it well.

And you are right, you have every right to be out and about with your family without feeling any guilt or anxiety.

(((LilSis and DS11)))

lil sis, i know EXACTLY how you feel.
when i found out where ow's apt was, it was all i could do to be able to drive by it. then, after my ex moved out, and i saw his car parked at her apt very late at night, it was all i could take. after that, it took me a year, no lie, a year to be able to drive by her apt, especially once he moved in with her.

i was not the one in the wrong either, but i didn't want to have to see it. and i will be very very honest with you, i STILL don't like to see her. we, i, do all i can to avoid her. i live in a very very small town. but i don't do very much business here. i bank elsewhere and i shop elsewhere and i usually do not work in town. so i very rarely run into her.

in fact, i rarely see my ex either. thank god we run in different circles.

i am not sure why the site of her still bothers me except for the fact that she has been such a b*tch to me. and how dare she be! she, in the past, sent me some very nasty emails, all uncalled for. i had to block her finally. the site of her just angers me because she saw nothing wrong with seeing my h, wanting him, and getting him no matter what the cost. well, the cost was my marriage, my kids, and her poor h whom she had only been married to a few short months before she betrayed him horribly. he was devastated. she just makes me sick how she can even look herself in the mirror and be ok with what she has done. errrrr!!!!!!!!!!

anyway, sis, i am sorry, and this part won't soon get any easier. my ex has been with ow since oct 04, and i booted him out in summer of 05. i am in a very happy wonderful relationship now with a great man that i love dearly. but the site of her still p*sses me off.

((((lil sis)))))
mlhb

when you go out Sis

think of my motto

a smile across your face is your greatest shield

Aww, honey, I'm so sorry you had to see her. You did well, though.

Want to hear a funny? I used to work for a hair color company. Right before I quit they changed the boxes. One of the models favored the skanky ow- of course the model was actually pretty and didn't really look like white trash <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Anyway, everytime I had to work that section, I would kick the box- right in her face- it really made me feel sooo much better every time I did it. In fact, a few weeks ago I was in walmart and saw one of those boxes- I just kicked it really hard for the heck of it.

Hope you and DS11 have a much better evening.

take care

{{{{LILSIS}}}} How about skipping the wine tonight... it is a depressant Lilsis.
Just spend some time with the kids and KNOW that that whorre isn't worth you losing one ounce of happiness over.
YOU are a wonderful woman.... and you can hold your head high.

(((((((((((((((((((((((((LilSis)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

I have two practical advice ideas for you.

FIRST IDEA: When I was going through similar stuff with my exH and his wistress, I got two items that helped me "shield my heart." One, I got a tatoo of a wolf over my heart. Wolves have always sort of been my animal (I feel connected to them--them live in families and mate for life!) and I got the tatoo specifically to defend my heart from anyone or anything that did not live in families and mate for life! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> It was one way of protecting me. Two, I bought a beautiful stone that's a big, clear quartz, and I had it specially wire wrapped so that I had this HUGE rock hanging right at heart level--like this: Wire Wrapped Stone. It was there to defend my heart too. I envisioned that any "evil" that the wistress sent my way was deflected by the big rock and sent back to her. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> Those were just two ways that I made my heart impenetrable by the evil of the A.

SECOND IDEA: Think about Pep's Nipples to the Wind. What's that all about? Why nipples? Why point them into the wind? What happens if MEN point their nipples to the wind? Can men point their nipples? If so...I'd like to see that! Yeah--just thinkin' about that should cheer you right up! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Your mama bee,



CJ

Okay, this day keeps getting worse.

I was on the phone with my neighbor, who had invited DS11 over to sit in the hot tub with Mr. Neighbor. The kids have been eyeballing it since they opened it last week.

Somehow, in the course of the conversation, she reveals that WH called her on Wednesday night (the night that I came home late and she was there to wait for me when he brought the kids home).

He wanted to "thank her" for being there with the kids, and wanted to know why I asked her to pick up the kids on Tuesday when I had to work late (I guess the kids told him). She told him that I had asked her to do it, and that she had issued an open invitation, so she did it, no big deal. She claims this was the gist of their conversation.

FURTHER, she revealed that WH called Mr. Neighbor about 2 weeks ago to "thank him" for playing catch and spending time with the boys, and asked Mr. N why I wouldn't communicate with him directly. (she said that Mr. N just told her this yesterday...??)

I was really upset with my neighbor for not telling me right away. As I calm down, I realize that's not really fair, because she is trying to protect me (more friggin' good intentions), and knew that I have been so swamped and working long days and getting the car repaired, and mowing the grass, etc. So she didn't want to drop the bomb on me when I was down.

I countered that isn't her choice to make. I'm a grown-up. And she KNOWS how I am operating. Through LK ONLY.

Of course I was crying. I felt betrayed again. Sandbagged. Like someone that I let into my buffer zone isn't safe. I just want a common message. If you have any questions about LS, you need to call LK.

I am tired of this. I just want WH to go AWAY. I want RT to GO AWAY. I want the ILs to GO AWAY. Let me live my life in peace, without getting all of this rubbed in my face.

I have a feeling that LG is right. Someone's going to show up...but it is without a doubt going to be WH. He's not broken. He's just throwing a temper tantrum because he's not getting things his way. He wants to be able to do whatever he wants in whatever manner he wants on whatever timeframe he wants. And me being dark has thrown a little wrench into that.

And I get no satisfaction from that...not at all. That's not what it's about. I just truly CRAVE the darkness now...I like being far away from that ugliness and evil. I don't want it to darken my path at all. I don't even want to speak to anyone who touches that evil ugliness. I just want to light my own way, unbothered by the evil. Surrounded only by people who have circled their wagons around me, and will speak only what I tell them to speak..."talk to LK."

I must be assured that anyone in my "circle" is 100% on my side, is 100% willing to respect my choice on this. This is the calm and rational conversation that I will have with Neighbor tomorrow.

Is this too harsh?

So WH's recent behavior...it has nothing to do with desperation or regret or any of that. It's just more WH meaness. Clearly, he isn't fond of Plan B for some reason (even though it is exactly what he asked for), so he's going to pitch a fit and try to make me PAY because I won't play the game HIS way.

I LOVE Plan B. It's working for me. I am learning to let the ka-ka roll off of me. Understanding what I need to do, and getting perspective. I want that nasty WH AWAY, FAR FAR AWAY while I live MY life.

So...since I LIKE Plan B...all the more reason, in his eyes, to screw it up for me. (insert picture of Mr. Whathisname from the Simpsons...the evil boss)

It's only Friday night and I'm already emotionally spent. I think I'll feel better in the morning after a good night's sleep. I hope.

This is exactly why I think you need to resend the plan b letter- use a highlighter this time where it talks about going through LK.

I know it will be hard to talk to your neighbor but I bet they will be on board with your request on not relaying messages or conversations.

sorry you are having a tough evening

Sis ~

You can not control your neighbors.

You can not control your WH.

You can only control you.

Your husband *hates* Plan B, because you are not playing along with his fantasy.

He is trying to save face with the neighbors. Yes, he's feeling the pressure. It's hard to pretend like he is a good father when you are in Plan B.

You are in Plan B.

You do NOT CARE what he does.

You do NOT CARE what he says to the neighbors.

What WH does is none of your business. You live your life. He has to live his.

Do not ask your neighbors to tattle on him. They are right in not telling you - look at how you are triggered.

This crapola sets your progress in plan B waaaaaaaaaaaaay back.

Get back behind your boundaries.

I was just about to post as BR...

The biggest lesson I had to learn, you have to learn..

YOU CAN ONLY CONTROL YOURSELF...leave the neighbors be...

And I don't agree with you that this is about WH showing up...and wanting to be MEAN to you...

This is about his DISLIKE OF PLAN B...for many different reasons

And his UNHAPPINESS with his PRESENT LIFE...for many different reasons...

If it was ALL WONDERFUL and LOVELY with RT none of this would be happening....he would be focused on his ROMANCE and his LIFE with her...and she would be the SOLUTION to ALL OF HIS PROBLEMS..she would be PUTTING HIM IN ECTASY..like she USED TO DO..BEFORE NOW..

He is wanting to break PLAN B for the reasons Mortarman stated in his post to me...

PLEASE READ THAT POST AGAIN BECAUSE I THINK IT IS SO RIGHT ON IN YOUR SITUATION AS IT WAS IN MINE...

Sorry to be a broken record BUT here is the important part again..so relevant again tonight..he's moving CLOSER and CLOSER...


This would be my interpretation of what's going on...

He needs for you to LB..to make you SEEM WORSE than her, I bet...cause she's not DOING IT FOR HIM LIKE SHE USED TO..he's not getting AS HIGH...and wants HIS HIGH BACK...

More and more... when I see your reactions to things Lilsis, I believe with all my heart that you need to focus solely on you. Easier said than done... I know... but I am starting to see the same cracks in your armour that appeared at the end of Plan A.... which if you remember, I felt went on too long(God only knows I marveled at your ability to keep it together as long as you did.... I would have gone nuts with what you were dealing with). I truly believe that your H does not fit the mold that MM talks about... BUT that really doesn't matter right now.... what does matter is that you put YOU in a place of strength that even if he showed up on your doorstep that you would handle it without it rattling you too much.
He is not deserving of the type of power over you any more that he can cause you this much grief.... your neighbors are not responsible... I think they handled things okay...your H has been doing this to you for over three years (I think). He needs to go...even if you decide to welcome him back later... right now, IMO, he needs to go.


MEDC

see, from my own experience, i don't see her h calling the neighbors and such as getting a "fix"

i see it as trying to look like "father of the year" call the neighbors to say thank you for watching kids, hanging out with kids, etc, because he is such a good consientious father and not the scum bag piece of dirt who has been having an affair and left his family. see, i am good guy, i care about my kids. my ex would do the same kind of crap.

my ex is doing all kinds of stuff with the kids now he never used to... why? because he wants ow and the rest of the world to think he is father of the year. oh, i am such a good guy, look at all the stuff i can do and i can buy my kids. he even went so far as to try and get custody of them! that was a farce.

and his going into the garage? i think he wanted to see if lil sis was just sitting around letting it stay messy or if she was actually doing something about it. (i think it is great that it was cleaned an organized btw. shows him she doesn't need him around to do that. mine went in our garage the other day, which he better not set foot in again btw, and it is a mess! but i don't care what he thinks anymore either. i will clean it when i get the time.) i think he wanted his kids to think he was great by telling them how to care for the plant. and maybe to rub in lil sis's face "ha, i was in the garage today and i showed the kids how to care for the plant. see what a good guy i am? and see that i can just walk into the garage whenever i want to?"

i am not trying to be a downer, i just know this is how my ex is and would act for the above reasons. i guess the moral is that lil sis is doing these things for her and her kids and not for wh. she has to do it for her so she can make it. so she can SEE that yes she CAN make it! because none of us at all have any idea what is going on in wh's mind. we can guess and speculate based on our own experiences but that is all we can do. only he knows why he does what he does.

mlhb