Silent:

I know.

I don't post much on the WW threads. What do I know about that?

I can give the BW's a little bit of what is going thru thier WH's head.

PWC? I understand.

Olive? I get some of it, but not all.

There are alot of FWW's around here.

LG

Silent: Thanks for bumping your "What Now?" thread. It seems odd to think that the last few posts there were really only a few weeks ago. How things can change, so unexpectedly. But you had signs, too...little cries from the darkness that PWC recognized that he was IN the darkness...

LG: your perspective is very valuable! Thanks for sticking around!

BR: I didn't like "muzzle," either, when I wrote it...just trying to type fast and didn't give myself time to consider alternatives. It's more about staring down the voice of fear and self-doubt...shining the light on it...showing it to be the sham that it is...and saying, "Shaddup!' in my most sneering, Mafia-inspired tone, lip curled.

Funny that you mention fear. I've been thinking about that over and over since IC yesterday, when he asked what is so frightening to me about the possibility of truly and deeply believing that I am worthy and good enough?

It almost makes me laugh. What AM I afraid of? What's the worst that could happen if I (gasp!) annointed myself as Lady Worthy, flaws and all?

Good grief.
(BTW, "LadyWorthy" will be my next screen name, when I no longer need to identify myself soley in relation to others...ummm...like my older sisters)

And I've been thinking all day (we work half days on Fridays in the summer, so I left work and went to the mall for a little retail therapy. Two pairs of shoes and a new straw bag later....then home for a--gasp!--nap).

I was thinking...yeah! TA's right. Why do I consider MYSELF responsible? Why to I insist on hogging the blame for WH's A? There are far more likely reasons than the fact that I was a lousy wife--which I don't believe I was--or lousy this or lousy that.

And no matter how "lousy" I was...we took vows, and there were about six thousand things WH could have done to deal with my percieved "lousiness" than having an A. He chose the A instead of the other 5,999 things he could have done. That wasn't my responsibility. Why do I take that on?

So I'm thinking about this...and trying to HONESTLY take that inventory. Brutal honesty with myself.

And I'm wondering.....what am I getting out of the self-blame game? I'm not a masochist. So what's going on here?

Is it because if I blame myself, then no one can place any blame on me?
The truth is if I blame myself and paint myself as a hideous monster unworthy of love, then I'm just distracting myself and everyone else from the reality that I am not perfect in very real and very human ways.

Is it because it prevents me from REALLY seeing my own flaws...painting with a wide brush when a small one will do?
The truth is that I am not perfect--I do have these human flaws and frailties and vulnerabilities--these make me, ME....and the big black brush camoflagues everything...all of those flaws are now hidden. OVERCOMPENSATING.

Is it because I don't want to see that WH could have been so deeply flawed?
The truth is that WH is human, and I thought he was just about perfect. I expected him to live up to unrealistic expectations, that we be on the same page about every thing every time, that we never have a difference of opinion, that we be all things at all times to each other.

Is it because it's easier to lump his A in with the ergegious sins category instead of the "human frailty" category...that makes me righteous?
The truth is, my husband was a wonderful, caring man...who has made a tremendous, life altering, devastating choice and is not willing to own up to it...he'd rather stick me with the blame and let me deal with the fallout...MAYBE because deep down he knows that I can survive this, even if he can't.

And why would he want to stick me with the blame?

Hmmm...maybe it's because...
....then no one can blame him, he can avoid responsibility.
....he won't have to face his own flaws; he can deflect attention to mine instead.
....that by turning my flaws into egregious ones, his don't look so bad in comparison. ("the incident" fits in perfectly here)

OR even
....that by blaming me, the victim, he can paint himself with the big black brush, too....see how AWFUL he is! How dispicable! He doesn't have just small flaws...if he is going to have flaws, they are going to be BIG GIGANTIC ones. Nothing small or "fixable." His flaws are going to be whoppers that are so big that nothing can ever fix them, so he just gets to live behind that big black brush stroke and never deal with the smaller things he has avoided his whole life.

Some of this sounds familiar...see?

I'm feeling insightful today. (pat self on back)

As I think about that whole conversation on here the other day about expectations...I think for me it really translated into responsibility. That's been a big issue for me my whole life....take responsibility, you are responsible...blah blah.

I've taken this on, I've borne this burden a long time. I take on responsibility for things I have no business taking responsibility for. Things that were completely outside of my control.

How's this for weird: I stub my toe and I say (sometimes even out loud), "Oh! Sorry!" To my own dang TOE.

I suck blame on to myself like a sponge, filling myself up with fault that I do not own, simply to hide my REAL faults.

Now if I could just sort out my REAL flaws from the ones I have sucked up over all these years...

Am I getting somewhere?

you certainly are. what a transformation!

and I've done that same inappropriate "sorry" reaction for things I have no part in.....hmmmm

lilsis-

Just an aside: I'm also the lilsis of two older sisters. Of course, as Johnstwin-he's the oldest boy-we kinda through those birth order theories into a tizzy.

Have you ever read "Captivating: Unveiling the mystery of a woman's soul" by John and Stasi Eldredge. You might find it quite helpful as you are continuing on this journey.

You said something on one of your earlier posts about fear. I can tell you from personal experience, that the things you fear the most, once you face them, they simply become obstacles that you overcome that eccelerate your growth. I know.

I feared cancer. And it came when I was dealing with all this A crap. Cancer gave me no choice but to lean on God.

Cancer made my kids and me a tight knit family without WH.
Cancer taught me to "be still" ( a miracle in itself).

It taught me to learn to pray in ways I never thought I could.

I am now considered a survivor. I think of my self as a prayer warrior.

Fear is just a challenge we don't understand. If we cling to God's hand in the fear, we come out "warriors".

You really are getting somewhere. Keep doing what you are doing. You are an inspiration.

Thanks, JT, you prayer warrior! I am absolutely learning the lesson about fear. I've faced challenge after challenge in my life and came out every time. I've survived a lot. This happens to be the biggest challenge of my life (God willing) and I will make it through this, too.

I wish I had a guarantee of happiness. Don't we all?

Right now I just know where the sadness is, and I'm moving away from it. I can only HOPE that I'm on a path to happiness, because I can't see where I'm headed; none of us can. I'm not comfortable with uncertainty (lack of control?)

For ME, since I need to do this...I'm going to recap. PLEASE TELL ME IF I AM MISSING ANY OF THE MAJOR LESSONS FROM THE PAST FEW DAYS:

Okay...FIRST...I'm really thinking, for the first time, that the A was probably not my fault. I'm thinking that I can give that one up. I won't take responsibility for that anymore. There are many possible reasons that WH chose to have an A that have nothing to do with me...no matter what he says.

SECOND: I am worthy and (as eaglesoar said) "wonderously made." I am a superstar. Heck, I'm a rock star. I am valuable, and I bring something unique and special to my world, EVEN WITH my flaws! What I have to work on here is continuing to really, really believe this in SPITE of the inner voice from waaaay back that tells me otherwise.

Part 2 of that: if I TRULY believe that I have worth, then I will believe it about myself no matter what others say. Negative remarks will hit my telfon coating and roll right off. That's the next step, and my self-doubt is such a recent and long-lived tenant that it will be hard to not crumble in a heap when she asserts her squatters rights.

THIRD: If I believe both 1 and 2 above...then I can be confident in my own ability to chart my own course and live my own life without the expectation that others will conform to it. Because *I* know me and *I* love me...I don't need others to do that for me.

I can have strong opinions, I can share those opinions, and I can take action to impact my world...but I must give up the idea that I can FORCE the issue. If it gets to a place of frustration and resentment, then I know that I need to establish a boundary to protect myself.

(here's where I was having difficulty the other day. My social action issues--though often fruitless--don't bring me to a place of true frustration and resentment...not at my inner-most self...because there is always SOME forum through which I can express my social/political views)

FINALLY: I need to figure out how all of this fits into my DEEPEST WISH for marital recovery. I am not afraid to admit that wish here, because you all understand it, and I know I will not be condemed or scoffed at for voicing it. I will find only compassion...even from Lemonman, who thinks it's a lost cause.

So I confess to you all: Last night I wept for the lost H...recognizing that he was/is flawed...KNOWING this actually makes me weep for him MORE. The H that WAS had such potential, I just grieve that he is so, so lost. I know that the old H can never, ever be again...just as the old LS can never, ever be again.

But to know that potential has been SQUANDERED for some two-bit skank and an affairland fantasy....oh, I grieve for him.

I want H to survive even more than I want my marriage back.

He's not an ugly, hideous monster. He is and always has been deeply, deeply flawed, now torn apart from himself, broken, a wreck of himself by his own choosing. He is held together with lies and rationalizations and a very large dose of stubborn pride (to answer your question, Mulan). None of that will give way easily; it may never give way.

To admit his brokenness to the world is probably unimaginable to him. Even if it were, he wouldn't know how...displaying weakness is not part of his life experience...either personally or by any man in his family.

I know that contemplating WH is not part of Plan B. But I am grieving. I am grieving. Maybe it's just withdrawal...but there is such loss with this. So in that sense, I hope it is okay that I put this stuff out here even though I am in a dark plan B. I think I would not be human if I weren't grieving such a deep loss.

And the thing is...he has lost even more than I.

LilSis,

I can really relate to everything you ahve written. Last night I grieved for my H also. I grieved because I don't think he's there anymore. And it hurts that my kids don't even remember the an he was. My H also has chosen a skank.

LilSis.... the affair(s) are not our fault. My WH is like yours... stubborn, justifying everything he is doing.

Just wanted to let you know I am learning so much from you.... you have a way of communicating feeling that we are all struggling with.

Still

LilSis, great stuff.

I found that once I kind of 'got my eye in', I began to see all the nuances and subtleties that looked like a smooth surface before. When I hit a seam, the relevations just kept tumbling out. I was amazed by how much I just hadn't noticed before.

You're getting there much faster, and more bravely, than I ever did!

TA

How does this fit with your issues?

I had built my H to be somebody who is wasn't or rather I was not willing to ACCEPT or ACKNOWLEDGE his FLAWS...

So he wasn't his AUTHENTIC SELF with me...

The H that WAS... before the A..was NOT REAL...

My H TODAY..is REALLY MY H...FLAWS and ALL..I ACCEPT HIM...not trying to make him into I want him to be..and him not trying to FIT into that IMAGE...

The core of change with me on the worthiness issue came about while I was going through some coaching and I had to turn in a journal reviewing my attitudes and behaviors for the day - the goals I started out with (working on my core beliefs about myself for my attitude) and how I ended up for the day. Little by little I finally came to realize that to believe that I'm less than worthy is to sabotage my ability to be a great mom and all the other roles I play in life.

After every single time I rated myself on a scale of one to ten, one being extremely unworthy and ten being absolutely the best me - I had to defend myself if I didn't rate myself higher as to why/what happened that I saw myself as unworthy... it was a great exercise. Do you think your IC might like to set this up?

I don't know about you, but that whole mafia thing hurts my throat and makes my lips look weird!

The point is not to "steel" yourself for a huge effort to get control over your fear, whether you muzzle it, stuff it, or scare it off.

Most people instinctively resort to control behavior in the face of fear.

The statement you made above describes an attempt to control.

Like abused children develop "truths" that help them survive, most of us developed "truths" in response to a situation where we were totally helpless and powerless.

But now, you are an adult. You are not powerless anymore.

Look at it, name it for what it is, ask yourself, Does this "truth" serve me any more?

And if the answer is no....don't chain it to you or stay on guard against it....Let It Go.

amazing transformation Sis .... you are a bright light of grace

johnstwin, thanks for the sig line

[color:"blue"]Sis, this was the turning point for me. Reading/studying this is when I began to understand the purpose of suffering... a work in progress, as always.

Especially #4 hit a home run into my spirit.

Remember, Turdvillians are the fools of mirth ... and not to be envied by the likes of women like yourself! [/color]



[b]The Book of Ecclesiastes


Chapter 7

1

A good name is better than precious ointment; and the day of death than the day of one's birth.

2

It is better to go to the house of mourning, than to go to the house of feasting: for that is the end of all men; and the living will lay it to his heart.

3

Sorrow is better than laughter: for by the sadness of the countenance the heart is made better.

4

The heart of the wise is in the house of mourning; but the heart of fools is in the house of mirth.

5

It is better to hear the rebuke of the wise, than for a man to hear the song of fools.

6

For as the crackling of thorns under a pot, so is the laughter of the fool: this also is vanity.

7

Surely oppression maketh a wise man mad; and a gift destroyeth the heart.

8

Better is the end of a thing than the beginning thereof: and the patient in spirit is better than the proud in spirit.

9

Be not hasty in thy spirit to be angry: for anger resteth in the bosom of fools.

10

Say not thou, What is the cause that the former days were better than these? for thou dost not enquire wisely concerning this.

11

Wisdom is good with an inheritance: and by it there is profit to them that see the sun.

12

For wisdom is a defence, and money is a defence: but the excellency of knowledge is, that wisdom giveth life to them that have it.

13

Consider the work of God: for who can make that straight, which he hath made crooked?

14

In the day of prosperity be joyful, but in the day of adversity consider: God also hath set the one over against the other, to the end that man should find nothing after him.

15

All things have I seen in the days of my vanity: there is a just man that perisheth in his righteousness, and there is a wicked man that prolongeth his life in his wickedness.

16

Be not righteous over much; neither make thyself over wise: why shouldest thou destroy thyself ?

17

Be not over much wicked, neither be thou foolish: why shouldest thou die before thy time?

18

It is good that thou shouldest take hold of this; yea, also from this withdraw not thine hand: for he that feareth God shall come forth of them all.

19

Wisdom strengtheneth the wise more than ten mighty men which are in the city.

20

For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.
Rom 3:10

21

Also take no heed unto all words that are spoken; lest thou hear thy servant curse thee:

22

For oftentimes also thine own heart knoweth that thou thyself likewise hast cursed others.

23

All this have I proved by wisdom: I said, I will be wise; but it was far from me.

24

That which is far off, and exceeding deep, who can find it out?

25

I applied mine heart to know, and to search, and to seek out wisdom, and the reason of things, and to know the wickedness of folly, even of foolishness and madness:

26

And I find more bitter than death the woman, whose heart is snares and nets, and her hands as bands: whoso pleaseth God shall escape from her; but the sinner shall be taken by her.

27

Behold, this have I found, saith the preacher, counting one by one, to find out the account:

28

Which yet my soul seeketh, but I find not: one man among a thousand have I found; but a woman among all those have I not found.

29

Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions.

Hi all:
At my mom's so not much time to post. Pep: I am going to pull out her Bible (and old KJV) and read that carefully. Suited for a day when I won't go to church.

I am feeling SO much tension in my body. Shoulders, and esp. the jaw. My teeth are always clenched. I wake up in the morning and can feel that I was biting down all night.

My IC says that tension means I'm holding something in..?? I'm going to think about that. If I'm holding something in, then I'm afraid of something. Afraid of my future? Afraid of what will be? Over something of which I have no control.

How do I name that fear? How do I look at that fear objectively? And how do I know that I can overcome it? Do I just look at my past "successes" in overcoming challenges and say to myself, "I can do this, too?"

Do I look at how others (here) have overcome this challenge and say to myself, "If they did it, so can I?"

A little bit of triggering today as Memorial Day weekend was always such a significant one for the IL family. Everyone together, heading up north for the commemoration at the various small town cemeteries. I went just about every year...not the last two, significantly...WH was working and we just sent the boys up with FIL.

Oh well. I still have not heard a peep about WH's wishes to have the boys go up tomorrow. I would be fine with that, but he needs to ask. At this point, I am intending to be home by 6:00 for our pre-designated Sunday drop-off time.

Either way, this is not good. Either he drops the kids off and they miss the family tradition (because presumably WH was too stubborn to ask), or he (or one of his family members) calls at the last minute...which is not very sensitive to my schedule or what I might like to do.

And he got on my case for taking the boys to DC, and only giving him 10 days notice that he'd miss out on one afternoon with them....

Anyway...just the logistics of it all.

LilSis,

You don't. That, to me, is the biggest challenge. To let go, to trust that God will see you through. It doesn't depend on you, on what you think or what you DO. Overcoming fear = removing fear from our lives by totally trusting that God will help us reach the place we are meant to be. To trust that He will give us the tools we require just when we require them.

As a side note - the emotion that usually triggers my teeth clenching and grinding is anger. I have a lot of trouble dealing with anger. It took me many years to recognize that as the underlying cause. Anger is always paired with another emotion. Anger and fear are a dangerous combination for my well being.

lilsis-

I learned to pray a prayer of release-as it is called in "Prayer, finding the heart's true home" by Richard Foster-that has helped me when facing all of the unknowns, the hopes, the hurts and the future.

"First, lift up into His arms your children, your spouse (WS) your friends. Next, place in His loving care your future, your hopes, your dreams. Finally, hold up to Him your enemies, your angers, your desire for retaliation. Give it all into his hands and then turn and walk away. He will care for everything as He sees fit."

I have noticed that when I do this, the change in me is subtle, but very real. My heart becomes still. I don't have to figure out how to overcome the fear or anxieties. I place it in "His loving care." (I love those words)

I think I am probably afraid to do even that...to let go. Today driving home from my mom's I began to question where God is in all of this (major triggers today; lots of anxiety).

Sometimes I get to this "overwhelmed" place where I feel like I just can't do it anymore...I wish I could just go on autopilot and stay on autopilot. Just one day after another, no surprises...

I'm not sure that I have it in me to take that leap of faith. It's that responsibility chip again, working overtime, wanting to fix everything, put everything in order, know what's going to happen. C-O-N-T-R-O-L

Lord knows I have anger, but I think my grinding is fear and anxiety. The unknown. Not having the will/ability to just let go...let life happen. Be present.

When WH dropped the boys off at 6:00, DS8 walked in and stomped past me as I said "hello!!" with arms outstreched. DS11 followed, gave me a hug and said, "We had a good weekend with dad, but DS8's upset because we couldn't go up north." (for the Mem-day celebration with the cousins.)

Turns out WH told them that *I* had insisted that they come home at 6 on Sunday.

I told them that if anyone had called to ask me, I would have agreed that they could have gone, but no one asked, so I also came back from grandma's in time to be here for them when they came home. Since I hadn't heard from anyone about going up north, I just assumed we were sticking with the schedule. I apologized that they felt slighted, and promised them that next year we will have all of this worked out.

My sister came with her daughter so that we could spend the day all together tomorrow. She arrived just as WH was pulling out. He stopped to say hi, my sister asked if the boys had said anything about going up north (she knew i was anxious about that), and WH told her that he asked the boys and they said that I told them they needed to be home on Sunday at 6.

Even though I didn't see or talk to him, I know this is all very non-plan B...but it was upsetting for a bit. Then my sister and I got busy making sandwiches for the kids and watching silly videos with them on youtube.

We also went through the whole calendar for June/July/August to figure out who will have the kids when, when I need to have my mom come to watch them, etc.

My sister is going to put the proposed schedule in an email and ask WH to respond to her directly. There's enough detail there that it doesn't make sense to send it through LK, and now that sis and I figured it all out, if there's any questions, she'll know the background.

Once that's in place, then "what's going to happen this summer?!?" will be one less worry on my plate. (thus the overwhelm-edness)

Bubble bath time...

I would suggest that you stick to your intermediary....

I think its a real bad precedent to send this ONE thing through her and expect him to honor your boundry. If you want HIM to respect your intermediary and choice of communication, then YOU have to respect it too.

Is this the same sister who's going through a tough time and uncomfortable with him contacting her?

Just a bad idea, IMO. Hope you'll rethink it.

I also think he set you up on the "up north" deal. He KNOWS he didn't ask to have them, he also KNOWS you would have probably agreed. This is just his petty way of making you look like the bad guy....told the boys you said "no" and most likely telling the rest of his family the same story. So that he can get a little pity....poor WH....Its really his only way to get any sympathy....

Okay, I'll re-think the intermediary thing. Part of me just wants the whole thing done and settled....and sis is the quickest means to that end. But your point is well taken...

Yes, she's the one who didn't want him contacting her....mostly becaue he attempts to manipulate her and she knows it, and she feels betrayed by him as well. She's not up for a battle of wits.

I agree...he totally set me up on the up north one. Although it's irrelevant, I hope the ILs were cogent enough to ask the perfectly obvious question, "Did you ASK LS if they boys could come up?"

Prolly not, as it would have required them to stick a toe outside the comfortable world of Denialville. And even if they did, you are right, he would have lied to cover his a$$.

Oh well...even though it does sting a bit...not my problem. They will believe and think what they believe and think, and any emotional energy spent by me on that issue is wasted.

Luckily, the boys got to spend time with the cousins all weekend, and then tonight with my niece. A relatively decent save, thanks to my sister.

TOTALLY !

Talk to your boys about YOUR plans whenever they are off to see "dad" ... and then add:

" Call me if something changes. I will listen to what you think is a good idea before I make a decision."

Pep: that's an excellent suggestion...my sister said almost the same thing. She said she learned this the hard way, too...

You know how CJ talks about disentangling?

I know that I am still all tangled up. But I have this visual image of me stuck in this tangled knot or web, and struggling to get free. Trying and trying and never seem to be getting anywhere.

Then I just get exhausted from all the exertion, and end up breaking down in tears from the effort and the frustration.

I guess I'll know I'm "done" when I am free of all this mess. Trouble is, I don't know if I'm working my way free and getting close, or if I've barely made any headway. Heck, for all I know, all my effort is just making it all worse. Sometimes it feels like one and sometimes it feels like the other.

I suppose you all will tell me that if I just be still, calm and peaceful, and quit trying, the knots will just start to fall away...??

That's actually why my sister came over yesterday. In the afternoon, shortly before I was to come home, I just broke down in tears. Much of it was the anxiety that had built up over the day. All the uncertainty of my life, what's going to happen over the summer with the kids schedules, what's going to happen with the D, decisions I need to make about that related to the pension/retirement...things I've been putting off because I just lack the wherewithall to cope.

I feel like I'm doing all I can to keep life on track, go to work, get the kids to school, take care of the house and yard, grocery shop, do laundry, etc. THAT stuff is all I can manage...the other stuff is too overwhelming.

Also, and fairly signifcantly, the constant AWARENESS that I've got no back-up...zilch. For the last couple of months before my dad died, and then then the few months afterwards, and I was in a bad place (not this bad, but it was hard). I always had that sense, however, that WH was there. I could count on him to take care of the kids if I just needed to be alone. I could count on him to do what needed to be done; to keep the household moving. I knew I could cry on his shoulder if I needed to. I could just be on autopilot a while, and things could be okay.

This is harder, and I've got no one HERE. I'm on my own. I just get worn out from it all.

I also knew that somehow, some way, I was going to get nailed for the up north thing.

WH would either make me out to the bad guy or he'd call at the 11th hour and make the request. He chose option A. Either way, he got his lick in. I can just see him, ala Mr. Burns, "hmmmm....which way shall I get her...excelllllent."

And I totally recognize that my anxiety yesterday was feuled by my need to have some control. This is very, very unfamiliar territory for me...this understanding that I have no control.

When life was "good," I had the illusion of control, but it didn't really matter because life was good.

Now that life is "bad," the illusion of control is gone, and it REALLY matters because life is bad and I want to make it better. But I can't.

I feel like I'm playing defense and in a reactive mode. I want to be on the offensive and proactive.

I read all of Ecclesiastes last night, and I gotta tell you it was quite depressing. Very true, unfortunately, but very, very depressing. Until I fully grasp it...or internalize its message, that is. Then it should be quite freeing...but now?...not there yet.

Clearly, on this morning that I could have slept in, I woke up way too early. Today my sister and the kids and I will go to the market to get the rest of the annuals I need to finish planting the flower boxes on the front porch. I am worried that I will see WH out today; he's working.

In the meantime, I have a purring cat on my lap (my 14yo faithful friend), a cup of coffee, and the birds are chirping. It is going to be a beautiful, sunny day. I will try to focus on that, instead of chasing after the wind.