I guess I really don't want to throw all this back in her face right now, but don't I deserve the truth about what I want to know?

Rock,

I know you are not trying to be sarcastic. You said
You answer your own question with the next line. Frankly, you don't have much choice do you? But, you are missing something I have said to you before and will say again. You will NEVER forget what has happened, just as you have not forgotten your own A. What you MUST do is forgive...YOURSELF and her.

THe problem is you fear what you cannot control, your thoughts are of things you don't know, and you somehow think that knowing everything will make it better. You already know she is a lying, cheating, secretive woman, when she is an affair. She proved that to you 3 times. Your call but to go back and try to find MORE, seems to be counter productive when what you should be find out is IF your marriage can be rebuilt, and it cannot while you are focusing on MORE information. What more do you need?

Ok, you tell me what you need to know that you don't know? You already have everything you need to know to move on from her PA or PA's. But, I doubt you do with regard to the emotional part. The problem is that too much is never enough. This is about deciding to make a go of it or not.


I not 'saying' this. IT IS A FACT. The only questions are: what are YOU going to do about it? What is she going to do about it? You need to accept that she has had sex with one or more men, she was emotionally invovled with 3 men. She violated just about all of her vows and while she was doing it, she didn't give a ...rip about the marriage. Could I be more clear or blunt? Probably not and keep my language clean. Tough medicine to swallow isn't Rock? You bet it is. This is tough stuff and it is NOT FOR WIMPS. You have done well so far, but you are missing something very important. Your future.


Hello!!!! She had a PA. She gave herself to another man for his enjoyment and hers. She liked it or she would not have done it. Does it make much difference if was 3 PA's or one??? When you get further along you will realize that you would be deliriously happy if she had 3 ONS, instead of three affairs with emotional attachment.

You are NOT just an appendage between two legs, you are far more, and her emotional affair rejected you as a whole, not just an appendage. If you want to really understand what is and was going on, learn about the emotional part of the affair. What she felt, why she felt it, what she was looking for and why? YOU need to understand those things to make a good future for you two.

I am not saying that her having a ONS is not grounds for leaving her, and if she did now, I would be telling you to do just that. What I am saying is that your future with your W depends on you understanding her EMOTIONAL needs and she understand YOURS. Further if you do, if you start to really reengage in this marriage, you might find out more than you know now. But, it will depend on her feeling that the marriage is strong enough for you two handle it and a feeling of safety on her part.

Rock, you are focussed on getting the truth. I have no problem with that. But, is it going to be HER truth, or your truth? Do you think that sweating it out of her will help you and give you confidence?

The reality is IF she decides that she wants a deep and intimate marriage with you, then she will figure out that the barriers she put up to protect yourself, and you from her will have to come down. Your job is decide if you want to try and remain married to her. I think you do. I think she wants to continue. But, Rock there is one other thing. IF she is withholding something that could be harmful to you, and you go ahead and make this marriage something great for both of you, she will pay and she will pay big time. You don't have to worry about that.

You might say, well if I don't know it ALL I would be a fool to forgive her. I will say to you, tell her what you forgive her for, and tell her you cannot forgive her for what you don't know. And leave it in her court.

Does this make sense? I hope so.

God Bless,

JL

Hmmm..you tell me things that I think deep inside I already know.
____________________________________________

I not 'saying' this. IT IS A FACT. The only questions are: what are YOU going to do about it? What is she going to do about it?

I guess there is nothing I can do about it. Just like she is going to do nothing about it. I feel like I will have to "ride it out" just like a sickness and let time do it's thing. Maybe I'll just let time deaden the pain. Like all the years since my affair has done.
________________________________________________________

Tough medicine to swallow isn't Rock? You bet it is. This is tough stuff and it is NOT FOR WIMPS.

Yes, this medicine is bitter! Bleeechhh!!
_______________________________________________________

If you want to really understand what is and was going on, learn about the emotional part of the affair. What she felt, why she felt it, what she was looking for and why? YOU need to understand those things to make a good future for you two.

This would require us communicating, and I don't see that happening.
Maybe we are doomed. Either that or we will just remain in this stage forever. The pain has got me in a full headlock and I can't wrestle free.

Thanks JL. I am really taking some of this to heart. You really made some good sense there.
Rock

Rock,

It just may be that she will communicate about the emotional part because she will understand it better. She will be able to put words to her feelings better. You must understand that when people do not feel safe, or they are insecure about their understanding of something, they are very very reticent to talk about it.

Your job is to make her feel secure, but also to inquire about her feelings now and at the time. I would ask her something like this. "Mrs. Rock, now that you have months to consider all of this, and face all of my hard questions, how have your feelings changed about things?"

Start with that. As she answers, continue "I'm a bit confused you said *****, but I am not sure what it means. Could you help me?"

Make it about yourself because... it is! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Ask from the point of view of NOW, and then seek projection forward in time and backward in time. Trust me if you understand her feelings at the time of the A, her feelings now, and what she hopes her feelings will be in the future, you will KNOW ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW. You may never get to quite that point, but not only do you need to strive for this, so does she.

You can bring her here again and I will tell her that. It is a FACT.

God Bless,

JL

Post deleted by rockbottom06

Well Rock,

If you understand her so well, then you don't need to ask any more questions do you?

Think about it, why did she choose these guys? It wasn't the size of their appendage was it? It was something emotional. Perhaps she felt no connection but was attracted, thus it was safe. Perhaps she felt more than she has said, and the PA was the last thing on the "to do" list.

I don't know and neither do you, but what you need to know is how she felt at that time about the marriage, herself, and you. IF you get her to tell you about these things you will have a much better idea about the role of the OM at that time.

Here's the point. I have work to do, and we can debate this forever, but eventually you are going to have to live with what you got or think you will get. Your call, your life, your marriage, your W. The woman cheated on you, and she was looking to. It was not an accident. Does she feel the way she did then, NOW?

Focus on the ball Rock. Keep your eye on the ball.

God Bless,

JL

I have nothing to debate about JL. Your posts have given me a lot to think about and also a different way to look at things. The honesty kind of stings, but it is what it is.
Thank you for taking the time to share some wisdom with me. I'm gonna work on some things that you told me I should.
Thanks again.
Rock

You are right JL. I don't understand her very well. Hardly at all really. I try to. That's why I want to ask questions.I guess it's all about me asking ther right questions. I just feel so lost and confused.
I am going to try to write some questions down that she might at least try to answer for me. I guess that I could at least try.
Rock

Rock,I am also a FWW spouse and having a very bad day like you!My situation dosen't seem to be getting any better either and I feel your pain!Today was one of those days I wanted to call it quits,but thanks to my mom I made it through another day!And you're right about the hurt,I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy,but I hope that it will all be worth it in the end!As my mom so wisely put it"it will get better,and good things come to those who wait!"I just wish I didn't have to wait so long!LOL!Keep your head up!

I had a bit of a breakthrough last night, after a few days of being quite down. I have been thinking about this 'questioning' issue and wondering, in light of what others have said here, whether this is what I need to do, but shying away from it in case I am upset by the answers. I have had some questions answered, and some quite recently have eased my mind somewhat. But there are little niggles keep coming back and I wondered whether to just go for it and ask.

Anyway, last night I was reading 'Not Just Friends' and skipped forward to skim-read a later chapter, where I read something about questions to ask about the A. My eyes landed on a paragraph which says that if you're the type who researches diseases on the Internet and knows more about it than your doctor, or you spend six months researching before you buy a camera, then you are likely to be the type to want all the nitty-gritty. I could really see myself there!!

So, I mentioned it to H this morning, and he says we should do this, but he is worried that I don't really know WHAT questions to ask, so has told me to think about it over the weekend and he will answer whatever it takes - he just wants me to feel better. I am now going to relax and have a pleasant Easter weekend (four days off work) and keep away from all this A stuff for a few days - to give us both a bit of a break.

Thanks for the kind words jksmith!

Glad to hear DH59. I hope that you find what you need to get you over the hump and moving forward. It's great that your H is willing to do what it takes to help you. That means SO much.
As for me, my FWW doesn't want to talk and I'm too afraid to ask. Good luck to you!
Rock

I'm sorry your wife is not willing to help you in this way. I already feel as if a weight has been lifted from my shoulders, just knowing that we are going to get to the bottom of what's causing my depression (well, hopefully!).

I can really recommend that book. I've read one or two others, but this one seems to be very good.

Take care.

I've heard of it.
Heck, I already have
*His Needs, Her Needs
*Surviving An Affair
*Torn Asunder
and a couple others that I can't think of at the moment.

If you reccomend that one, I'll probably try that one too. Make sure that you keep me updated as to of how your Q&A session goes. Thanks.
Rock

I know the feeling, Rock. I have read three or four books on the subject already, and a raft of others yet to read on relationships. But I was recommended Not Just Friends, and thought what can it hurt to read another!! H thinks I'm after the Holy Grail, as they all say more or less the same thing, which is also more or less what's said on MB, but there are different ways of saying the same thing, and one way might mean something to one person and another way might hit the mark with someone else.

I will keep you updated, don't worry.

I didn't get my SUSHD M2L. I could have used it.

FWW surprised me today with a weekend getaway! The weekend of the 21st we are going to a nice B&B with no kids! Yay! We've been there before (much happier circumstances). It is going to be so nice to have some alone together time.
I hope I don't blow it somehow.
I just wanted to share my nice surprise.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

You hope you don't blow it - then don't. You know the areas to stay away from. I for one would not expect too much of anything. Without these expectations you won't be let down. On the other hand you may be surprised with what happens.


no SUSHD my friend. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> This is hard stuff to go thru and I don't want to keep slapping you around because of it.

Rock, that sounds like it will be a great break for you. Don't worry about blowing it - just try and enjoy yourself. Things like this have helped me enormously - makes new memories to think back on, rather than A thoughts.

Oh, I will. The evil Rock says: "Ha ha, I will have her for the whole weekend alone, now I can badger her to death"!
Just kidding. I'm going to just enjoy it for what it is. We'll see how it goes.