Yes DH, we "chin up" over here too. Lol. Thanks for the encouragement. I hope things are going well for you. Thanks.

Yes M2L. I'm on the merry-go-round from ******. Weeeeeeeee. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Well, another bad day. I’m getting tired of spinning my wheels. I am definitely stuck in a rut. I have to start looking at things in a different way. It’s obvious that my FWW won’t talk or discuss things with me. Maybe I should just learn to deal with never knowing why this ever happened or a lot of other questions I have. I know there are many secrets that she must be keeping from me. Maybe someday she will share. Until then I guess I have to just know that she has to live with those things.
Maybe I should just be grateful for the many years of happiness that she gave me before all of this happened. She gave me the best years of my life. These horrible incidents can never take those away from me.
All I feel that I can do now is be the best husband and father that I can be. I will fight my demons every day and try and make the best of it and just hope that time will heal my wounds. I feel so alone on my recovery effort. I don’t know. Maybe I am stuck in this rut feeling sorry for myself. I don’t know.
One minute she tells me she loves me, the next day she tells me I should give up. I guess for now she is here with me and I should just be happy about that.

RB,

Sorry for your down day. Think we need a cheer-up song. The Harley's can help you up!!!


Great Big Sea

When I'm Up (I can't get down)

Rock,

Spinning wheels and ruts seem to be popular these days, huh?

I'm sorry. It s*cks to feel like you're the only one working on your M.

My H runs hot and cold too, not about whether we should be M'd but just in his jekyll/hyde behavior.

It's draining, one day you have hope, the next you're wondering why you're even there. In fact, sometimes it changes hour to hour.

I don't have any great words of wisdom for you today. All I can tell you is that I feel for you; we are unfortunately in the same boat.

Hopefully Monday will bring something better for both of us.

I would but I can't afford it at the moment.

Is there ever really true healing? I don't see it. I don't know how it is possible. I guess I can only see healing if FWS and BS to join forces and work at it together. Instead of my healing all I can see is how strong I can be at dealing with things, and that's a b****.

Rock...

I clicked on your thread because of the latest title..."drivel"...and then I saw MAZ reinforce your choice.

You wanna feel differently than you do right now?

Change your beliefs.

Up your boundaries around yourself...

Including...not stating your stuff is drivel. It isn't. You choosing not to change your beliefs means you can't change your life...by choosing to live from your beliefs...

instead of your emotions.

This is about your personal recovery...which cannot be done if your focus is on WW's thoughts, changing desires, statments...feelings...HER stuff.

You got your own.

Doesn't look to me like you're owning your own stuff...which is where change begins in a huge way.

To self-DJ "drivel"...is to allow others to define you as well...choose not to...you aren't drivel, your feelings aren't drivel, nothing about you is drivel....

Unless you choose that to live from.

Choose differently.

Make different choices...have a different life experience.

Choose to own your own goal to save your marriage...entirely...no reactivity when she muses, "Maybe I want you to leave"...listen and repeat. You're not going anywhere. By choice. Your choice.

You're teaching your DDs how to live here...you want them to live in highest honesty, healthy boundaries and from their authentic selves? You do it.

There is no humility in DJs...putting yourself down does not make you lower...it makes you fake and self-abusive...and what you'll do to yourself, you'll do to others.

Focus on YOUR stuff...it's vast and complex...get to know what you lived from, your false payoffs and your real ones...when you change your choices, everything changes.

I said much of the same lies to my BH about thinking I could make him marry me...that I was just convenient...all the blah blah blah fantasy stuff in my marital history rewrite. Listen and repeat it to her with choice inserted...which is bringing reality:

"I hear you believe you chose to marry too young after dating for seven years, is that correct?"

And

"I hear you chose to feel very left out, unimportant and taken advantage of...and I hear you. I am experiecing that perspective right now. I know if I choose to see this about you, your choices and not suck myself into your stuff...then I won't experience those emotions now. I will feel sorrow, which is healing, and act to connect through respect."

I dunno..making stuff up...you are gonna hurt, Rock...no need to spin your wheels or choose this rut, toots. Make different choices...do O&H drive bys...DO NOT LB...not to get her to treat you differently...so you don't slam yourself, which is what we do when we LB...we drain our own love banks, which are often, very low to begin with...then we feel done to...taken of advantage of and unimportant.

We can stop any time...through our focus...goal of clarity, not decision...and when we get there, we make clear decisions.

LA

No offense, Rock, but why the h*ll are you talking about these things right now? These things can be discussed towards the end of recovery. Right now I would keep things fun and light until the love banks are at the romantic threshold again. This might take a year. It's been almost six months since my WW ended her affair and almost 3 months since last contact, and we still don't have SF and she refuses to talk about the A. Just keep plugging along. She'll talk about the A when she's ready to. If you try and force it before she's ready it will come across as a LB. Get a sitter and schedule a date, plan a family trip to the zoo, plan a romantic weekend with NO expectations. Court your wife back. Dr. Harley says the average recovery time from an affair is TWO YEARS! You are just about 1/4 of the way there. Recovery is HARD. Slow and steady wins the race.

Rock,

Just to clarify re: LA's comments...

When I made a comment about your drivel title and how my stuff felt like drivel to me...I wasn't stating your stuff was drivel.

I was commiserating. My way of saying I understood how you feel right now because I felt the same way. Not saying that was reality for either of us.

k?

Thanks LA and jmwc.
You both made sense.
LA, as far as my self-abuse, that's just my natural feeling. I have always felt unimportant. This betrayal has brought me down to a whole new level. It's hard to climb out of this hole and feel good about myself. I'm gonna try though.
jmwc, this Saturday FWW and I are going on a romantic weekend retreat. No kids, just FWW and I. A waterbed, a fireplace, a hot tub and a chilled bottle of champagne. I think it's gonna be great!
Thanks again,
Rock

Oh, it's cool MAZ. I know what you meant. No offense, besides, I don't even know what commiserating means. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> We're kind of on the same wavelength. I hope things are going well for you.
Take care,
Rock

I love all those R's, Rock...'cuz that's how I laugh sometimes...ar ar ar ar.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

LA

So JL or LA,
I think I understand about not worrying about FWWs stuff (her thoughts, feelings, etc.) at least I think I do. Am I supposed to be just concentrating on myself and not worrying about A stuff right now? Do I wait for her to talk on her own time? I get no input from her. I try to figure out why this happened or as JL suggested, to try and understand the emotional ties to these guys. I get NO response. I'm not saying that she isn't treating me well. It's just frustrating that she just wants to act like nothing happened. I guess in my perfect world scenario she would sit me down and tell me that she loves me and is so sorry for hurting me so bad and would tell me that she will do anything to work on our marriage. She would maybe seek counseling, read some books, write me some notes and even post here. I guess I'm only dreaming.
One other thing. Do you have any tips on how I can somehow stop dwelling on thinking about my FWW having sex with this guy? All these sick scenarios keep replaying in my head. It is so depressing and hurts so much.

Hi, Rock.

Quote:
==================================
Do you have any tips on how I can somehow stop dwelling on thinking about my FWW having sex with this guy? All these sick scenarios keep replaying in my head. It is so depressing and hurts so much.
==================================

I'm not JL or LA, but if you don't mind, let me ask you a question. What part of her having sex with this guy really sticks in your craw?

God bless,
Gimble

Hmmm...what part. I would think probably the whole dang thing. I keep thinking of what happened, how it happened. It's like a porno movie running in my head starring my FWW and OM. Blech.

Rock wrote:
=========================================
Hmmm...what part. I would think probably the whole dang thing. I keep thinking of what happened, how it happened. It's like a porno movie running in my head starring my FWW and OM. Blech.
=========================================

Okay.

The best method I have come across in dealing with the "loop" is demystification. Once you take away the mystery, then you are only left with the truth.

Have you come to terms with the fact that they had sex and that they liked it?

The truth is that whatever really happened, in all likelihood, isn't as bad as the idea of what happened makes you feel. In other words, if you could watch it as a porn movie, it probably wouldn't be a very good one. They didn't do anything earth shattering. Besides that, there are really only so many things that you can do, variations on a theme excepted.

The "magic" of their sex was how they felt about themselves during the act. Other than that, it was just sex.

The real trick to dealing with the sex is to first face the truth, they liked it, then replace whatever image you have devised in your brain to represent the idea of their encounters, with something of equal value. What I mean by that is this; Since you can't know what they did (unless you have tapes), then there is no way your "loops" can be accurate. Since your "loops" are fantasy, why not replace it with something that you at least find amusing. Maybe two rhinos going at it, whatever you like.

In time, you can simply replace the images with the truth. They had sex and they liked it, big deal. You have had sex and liked it too.

Is this making any sense to you?

Gimble

Yes, it kind of makes sense. Like JL once told me "it's a bitter pill to swallow".

Rock wrote:
==========================================
Yes, it kind of makes sense. Like JL once told me "it's a bitter pill to swallow".
==========================================

JL is exactly correct.

At least you can use a bit of humor to make the medicine go down. In the long run, acceptance will win out. You still won't like it. You never will, but it won't be such a big deal.

You will be okay.

God bless,
Gimble

Thanks Gimble. This is gonna take a while.

Rock,

I am going to reply to several your posts in pieces.

You said
Ok, Rock read the part in bold. If you always have felt unimportant, then why is this A bothering you? Sounds like a stupid question, but it is really the issue. Whether you are or are not important is NOT up to your W. It never has been and it isn't now. Your importance has to do with YOU doing your best, being good to other people, taking good care of you kids, doing your best at your job, being the best H you can be.

You are handing her something she cannot do. She cannot make you feel important, ONLY YOU CAN DO THAT. You importance or lack of it has NOTHING TO DO WITH HER A. I mean NOTHING.

Your get away WILL be great IF you decide it will. It really has nothing to do with her really. You get some time off, you are going to smile, enjoy the wine, the hot tub, the fireplace. If she enjoys it as well....Great. If she decides to be romantic so much the better. If she does not, then enjoy yourself anyway.

Young man, you need to be comfortable in your own skin. This A has little to nothing to do with you. It was her choice to have it. It was her choice to end it. It was YOUR choice to try and rebuild the marriage. Face it, but face it with certainty that this marriage would NOT have been as far as it is, IF you did not give her a chance.

I will respond your other comments in separate posts.

God Bless,

JL